Dan & Phil Part 70: giving the people what they want

[greenergrass]

Since in their live show they said there wouldn't be swearing, either they were flat out lying or they don't consider it a swear word at all. Either way is a bit baffling.

I don't think they consider 'bitch' to be swearing, since later in the diss track Dan interrupts Phil to say he can't swear on stage

[ratlad]

(in my own opinion, i am not correct)
seeing people try to censor gendered curse words and continue to make it a gender thing is the least progressive thing you can do in terms of getting rid of stigmatization.
of course you don't have to use it/be comfortable with it, but i just don't agree with giving words a gender, even if it's just how the word evolved. (didn't it originally mean "female dog"?)
context is always important, and the context in which phil used it is pretty clear that it wasn't at all a gender thing, more like a shock value thing. it didn't even sound like it was directed at the audience, just sounded like an emphasis to a statement.
i am 100% against slurs used to target specific groups of people, but "bitch" has pretty much lost its meaning. like, it can still be used as a sexist word, but again: context is always important. (i am not speaking for any other slurs than this one btw)

is scared to state opinion

[relatablemood]

chiming in to add my two cents to the bitch discourse. personally don’t find it offensive at all and where i’m from in the us its very common to refer to your friends as bitch or ‘this bitch’ and things along those lines. even when used in a negative way if someone were to call me a bitch and mean it, it wouldn’t effect me much.

i find the cultural differences in words interesting since i know that in the uk ‘cunt’ is used pretty commonly but as an american i think that’s one of the worst things you can call someone and i’m appalled any time i hear it. if phil has used that i’d DEFINITELY and shocked and upset but bitch is just funny to me, especially coming from phil.

In the UK, people use 'bitch' regularly in conversations and banter with their mates. But that's typically teen girls in groups, not a grown man addressing a largely female audience. I mean, black people use the n-word to refer to their friends but that doesn't make it all well and fine for a white person to use it when speaking to them.

@ratlad I also don't believe it's lost it's meaning, just because it's now also used in a joking way. Or that it's not gendered. I mean, compare the insults Hilary received to the insults Trump received. All calling her a bitch. That's the go-to slur for a strong or otherwise intimidating-to-the-male-ego woman. I just don't think you can erase its history like that and claim it's genderless, when even today woman are called it for rejecting men's advances, and female celebrities are hit with it on social media, and songs talk about "all these bitches". If you can find an example of a male celebrity being called a bitch by men then I'd be shocked.

[serenlas]

I don't particularly mind the word bitch. I can't remember the last time I used it, and I wouldn't want to be called it, but I can think of far worse words (two starting with S and one with C spring to mind!). I've literally just read a comment on a friend's Facebook photo that says "U looks good bitch" (friend is dressed up for a night out and has recently lost a lot of weight) - this isn't the only time I've heard it used as a term of endearment.

I swear I've spent literally all day clicking refresh on various websites

[huphilpuffs]

re: bitch discourse

I 100% understand where people are coming from, but I also think context matters. Phil's use of the word was, in my opinion, a very obvious joke about how the audience thought he was innocent. Which is really different from people calling specific celebrities or Hillary Clinton a bitch. It didn't really seem, to me, like it was directed at anybody, much less a specific person or group. Rather, it seemed more like a reference to the abstract entity of "anybody watching this who thought I was innocent." Idk. I don't think, personally, that bitch is all that comparable to slurs, simply because it does have such different uses across circumstances. It's still used as an insult, sure, but it has other uses that seem to be more relevant to the diss track. Idk I guess I just don't see what makes this instance all that different from, for example, Dan saying "yoga challenge, bitch" in gtpwtw. it was a joke. and the word bitch is used as a joke often, in my experience. I don't really see any argument that this correlates to any sort of sexism on dnp's part, I guess.

[yeetussy]

re: bitch discourse

I 100% understand where people are coming from, but I also think context matters. Phil's use of the word was, in my opinion, a very obvious joke about how the audience thought he was innocent. Which is really different from people calling specific celebrities or Hillary Clinton a bitch. It didn't really seem, to me, like it was directed at anybody, much less a specific person or group. Rather, it seemed more like a reference to the abstract entity of "anybody watching this who thought I was innocent." Idk. I don't think, personally, that bitch is all that comparable to slurs, simply because it does have such different uses across circumstances. It's still used as an insult, sure, but it has other uses that seem to be more relevant to the diss track. Idk I guess I just don't see what makes this instance all that different from, for example, Dan saying "yoga challenge, bitch" in gtpwtw. it was a joke. and the word bitch is used as a joke often, in my experience. I don't really see any argument that this correlates to any sort of sexism on dnp's part, I guess.

^^^^ nothing to add to this but +1 all the way

[nihilist-toothpaste]

here's an initial rough transcript of phil's full diss track (for those who have secondhand embarrassment issues w hearing phil rap,,,, i totally feel u on that lol)! im sure a lot of people have seen versions floating around tumblr/twitter but i didnt see it shared here so i thought i'd drop it in

earlier i saw a lot of discrepancies between ppl making a fuss of that line about living in dan's shadow and then a lot of people vehemently refuting that the line even happened at all. from the clips i've seen he definitely says something along the lines of what's transcribed here, and i think it's interesting that he even went there at all! everything else seems pretty par for the course (tho im extremely here for him acknowledging on his own terms that the angel/innocent thing is an act, that irl he has a really dirty mouth and the act continues at least partially bc he doesnt want to be demonetized lmaooo)

[Pamivia]

re: bitch discourse

I 100% understand where people are coming from, but I also think context matters. Phil's use of the word was, in my opinion, a very obvious joke about how the audience thought he was innocent. Which is really different from people calling specific celebrities or Hillary Clinton a bitch. It didn't really seem, to me, like it was directed at anybody, much less a specific person or group. Rather, it seemed more like a reference to the abstract entity of "anybody watching this who thought I was innocent." Idk. I don't think, personally, that bitch is all that comparable to slurs, simply because it does have such different uses across circumstances. It's still used as an insult, sure, but it has other uses that seem to be more relevant to the diss track. Idk I guess I just don't see what makes this instance all that different from, for example, Dan saying "yoga challenge, bitch" in gtpwtw. it was a joke. and the word bitch is used as a joke often, in my experience. I don't really see any argument that this correlates to any sort of sexism on dnp's part, I guess.

My two cents:

It's very interesting to read your takes on the word "bitch" as english native speakers. I'm from Argentina and to be honest if I heard the word it wouldn't make me bat an eyelid, I think I'm desensitized to english curse words because they aren't the ones I hear or use everyday, but I agree with @huphilpuffs uffs I don't think D&P used it to insult people, like it wasn't directed to anybody in specific - It's a phrase people use to say something funny. They obviously knew the diss track included the word "bitch" but it isn't meant to be literal, they aren't really calling the audience bitches. In spanish the word bitch could be translated to: "puta" (an actual insult), "perra" or "zorra". Perra and zorra are the funny meaning of the word, people know they aren't being called a literal perra or zorra, but if someone wants to insult someone they use puta. So what I'm trying (and failing, I'm sorry) to say is that it depends on context, and in this content it's used to shock the audience, not call names.

I'm loving the spoilers as I can't go to any of the shows, they aren't coming to my country and travelling to Brazil is hella expensive. They look sooooo good and are having so much fun

[ratlad]

@relatablemood yeah, i agree with you. that's kind of what i was saying as well, i meant that the word has been more watered down, but it unfortunately is not possible to stop people from using it in a sexist way.
context always matters is what i'm mostly getting at.

[greenergrass]

here's an initial rough transcript of phil's full diss track (for those who have secondhand embarrassment issues w hearing phil rap,,,, i totally feel u on that lol)! im sure a lot of people have seen versions floating around tumblr/twitter but i didnt see it shared here so i thought i'd drop it in

earlier i saw a lot of discrepancies between ppl making a fuss of that line about living in dan's shadow and then a lot of people vehemently refuting that the line even happened at all. from the clips i've seen he definitely says something along the lines of what's transcribed here, and i think it's interesting that he even went there at all! everything else seems pretty par for the course (tho im extremely here for him acknowledging on his own terms that the angel/innocent thing is an act, that irl he has a really dirty mouth and the act continues at least partially bc he doesnt want to be demonetized lmaooo)

Thanks for posting the transcript! I roughed through it and listened to the audio, but I kept stopping and starting it so it's a lot easier to just read it.

And man same, the whole angel/innocent dismissal is my favourite thing. He/they've been slowly refuting this recently, but I love him outright saying it in the rap.

[kindofatrashcan]

here's an initial rough transcript of phil's full diss track (for those who have secondhand embarrassment issues w hearing phil rap,,,, i totally feel u on that lol)! im sure a lot of people have seen versions floating around tumblr/twitter but i didnt see it shared here so i thought i'd drop it in

earlier i saw a lot of discrepancies between ppl making a fuss of that line about living in dan's shadow and then a lot of people vehemently refuting that the line even happened at all. from the clips i've seen he definitely says something along the lines of what's transcribed here, and i think it's interesting that he even went there at all! everything else seems pretty par for the course (tho im extremely here for him acknowledging on his own terms that the angel/innocent thing is an act, that irl he has a really dirty mouth and the act continues at least partially bc he doesnt want to be demonetized lmaooo)

So.. wait... that song that Dan sings in the piano is tied in with Phil's diss track?

[jaej]

chiming in to add my two cents to the bitch discourse. personally don’t find it offensive at all and where i’m from in the us its very common to refer to your friends as bitch or ‘this bitch’ and things along those lines. even when used in a negative way if someone were to call me a bitch and mean it, it wouldn’t effect me much.

i find the cultural differences in words interesting since i know that in the uk ‘cunt’ is used pretty commonly but as an american i think that’s one of the worst things you can call someone and i’m appalled any time i hear it. if phil has used that i’d DEFINITELY and shocked and upset but bitch is just funny to me, especially coming from phil.

From what I've seen from my (British) parents and friends, it can also depend regionally whether or not calling someone a cunt is seen as offensive. Attitudes about the word are drastically different in say, the Highlands vs Glasgow. I just feel bad for people who went to the show with parents who feel very strongly about swearing/feel strongly about swearing themselves, as there was just no warning?

this isn't that relevant to the wider conversation but i'm from glasgow and cunt is honestly a completely common word (in informal settings with friends obviously) in a lot of circles to the point where it feels totally standard to hear someone about my age say 'anycunt' instead of 'anyone' (somecunt/someone, nocunt/noone), when i was at school i used to overhear it in conversations all the time and it's pretty standard scottish twitter patter. because it's so common in that one specific accent though you can still feel it being more serious in another accent. a lot of people definitely don't like it and i'd be grossed out if i heard someone calling another person that as an insult but used in a casual context it doesn't have much weight

i like when discourse naturally comes up because it means i don't need to go into my folder of potential d+p discourse topics to drag one up again

[knq]

Since in their live show they said there wouldn't be swearing, either they were flat out lying or they don't consider it a swear word at all. Either way is a bit baffling.

I don't think they consider 'bitch' to be swearing, since later in the diss track Dan interrupts Phil to say he can't swear on stage

That's really interesting! From Phil's delivery and the place in the diss track where he says it, it seems like they see the word as 'edgy' enough to contradict what Phil's just said about being too innocent to make a diss track. But Dan telling him he can't swear elsewhere definitely implies he hasn't already sworn. So I've no idea what that leaves.

I do get the sense there's a broader cultural difference there beyond just what different individuals are bothered or unbothered by. It made me think of this video?



Which isn't about gender at all, of course. I see a difference between the kind of swearing that might get you demonetized and the kind that might be generally inoffensive now but has historically been used to oppress a group you're not a part of. I'm happy as a clam for Phil to swear like a pirate as long as it's a feminist pirate.

[RiriPandaHeart2]

here's an initial rough transcript of phil's full diss track (for those who have secondhand embarrassment issues w hearing phil rap,,,, i totally feel u on that lol)! im sure a lot of people have seen versions floating around tumblr/twitter but i didnt see it shared here so i thought i'd drop it in

earlier i saw a lot of discrepancies between ppl making a fuss of that line about living in dan's shadow and then a lot of people vehemently refuting that the line even happened at all. from the clips i've seen he definitely says something along the lines of what's transcribed here, and i think it's interesting that he even went there at all! everything else seems pretty par for the course (tho im extremely here for him acknowledging on his own terms that the angel/innocent thing is an act, that irl he has a really dirty mouth and the act continues at least partially bc he doesnt want to be demonetized lmaooo)

I think the missing line is something along the lines of: "Why do you want me to get a dog? I'd give it 3 weeks until the funeral ???" I don't think it's flood but I might be wrong.

Hi everyone. I don't know if people still remember me, but if you do Hi again. I used to be active here last year. I've been kinda out of the loop recently about Dip & Pip but returned for II. Always loving the discussions here.
*goes back to lurkdom*

[greenergrass]

Since in their live show they said there wouldn't be swearing, either they were flat out lying or they don't consider it a swear word at all. Either way is a bit baffling.

I don't think they consider 'bitch' to be swearing, since later in the diss track Dan interrupts Phil to say he can't swear on stage

That's really interesting! From Phil's delivery and the place in the diss track where he says it, it seems like they see the word as 'edgy' enough to contradict what Phil's just said about being too innocent to make a diss track. But Dan telling him he can't swear elsewhere definitely implies he hasn't already sworn. So I've no idea what that leaves.

I do get the sense there's a broader cultural difference there beyond just what different individuals are bothered or unbothered by. It made me think of this video?



Which isn't about gender at all, of course. I see a difference between the kind of swearing that might get you demonetized and the kind that might be generally inoffensive now but has historically been used to oppress a group you're not a part of. I'm happy as a clam for Phil to swear like a pirate as long as it's a feminist pirate.

Yeah, exactly. I think they went with an 'edgy' word that isn't considered to be too inappropriate of a word (at least in terms of media - I understand people's points about it potentially being sexist). I think bitch is kind of in the same category as words like 'ass' (which Phil has said many times before). They are words that you can say on TV, as opposed to the swear words that aren't usually allowed on TV, like shit, fuck, cunt, etc.

But yeah, the video you posted is a good example of cultural differences. 'Bloody' would never be considered a bad word in North America, but it is in the UK.

[autumnhearth]

here's an initial rough transcript of phil's full diss track (for those who have secondhand embarrassment issues w hearing phil rap,,,, i totally feel u on that lol)! im sure a lot of people have seen versions floating around tumblr/twitter but i didnt see it shared here so i thought i'd drop it in

earlier i saw a lot of discrepancies between ppl making a fuss of that line about living in dan's shadow and then a lot of people vehemently refuting that the line even happened at all. from the clips i've seen he definitely says something along the lines of what's transcribed here, and i think it's interesting that he even went there at all! everything else seems pretty par for the course (tho im extremely here for him acknowledging on his own terms that the angel/innocent thing is an act, that irl he has a really dirty mouth and the act continues at least partially bc he doesnt want to be demonetized lmaooo)

I think the missing line is something along the lines of: "Why do you want me to get a dog? I'd give it 3 weeks until the funeral ???" I don't think it's flood but I might be wrong.

Hi everyone. I don't know if people still remember me, but if you do Hi again. I used to be active here last year. I've been kinda out of the loop recently about Dip & Pip but returned for II. Always loving the discussions here.
*goes back to lurkdom*

Hi! *waves*

Pretty sure it’s funeral blog, but vlog would make more sense. Think RIP Simon. I was working on typing it all out, but it’s giving me a headache. Not sure if the one video version has been posted here yet.



I wonder how long before these are taken down.

[liola]

Did phil never look through half of the phandom discourse? I think it was 80% pro-quiff and the remaining 20% was people that didn't mind the emo fringe (like me)

[000dia000]

I don't really see anyone talking about it, but it's been really bothering me. It's not a spoiler, but to do with the tour and meet and greet.

Has anybody been seeing all the hate tweets directed towards their manager? It bothers me, on a human level at the lack of respect and pure vitriol that they are saying. I don't think people get that what she does is for deppy's benefit, not because she's trying to ruin people's day. Idk but people are sort of making it out to be like a big joke to suddenly bash her and it's very uncomfortable. You know how it's been for any woman to be around deppy and suddenly people are bashing her, but Jesus Christ some of the comments are horrible. I hope she never sees it because it's absolutely toxic. They work with her, and I would hate that they had trouble behind the scenes because of this shit. I can see where people are coming from, with wanting to film or whatever, but sometimes rules are rules and she's just trying to do her job.

I really don't care that people are having a "little fun" with it, or think they're hot shit with their jokes, but the circle jerk of little shits on Twitter is really putting me off the phandom (even more than usual). Anyway, back to the show discussion or whatever.

/rant

[phantastically-avg]

Did phil never look through half of the phandom discourse? I think it was 80% pro-quiff and the remaining 20% was people that didn't mind the emo fringe (like me)

Agreed. People have been thirsting over the quiff since at least 2014 when we were blessed with it in the festive Day in the Life.

I'm glad he finally changed his how to how he wanted it. I'm sure the massively positive reaction to the quiff photo he posted (that killed half the phandom) and the reaction during his liveshow was nice to see after his uncertainty.

Not too surprising he starting thinking that not long after Dan changed his hair up. It probably got him thinking.

I don't really see anyone talking about it, but it's been really bothering me. It's not a spoiler, but to do with the tour and meet and greet.

Has anybody been seeing all the hate tweets directed towards their manager? It bothers me, on a human level at the lack of respect and pure vitriol that they are saying. I don't think people get that what she does is for deppy's benefit, not because she's trying to ruin people's day. Idk but people are sort of making it out to be like a big joke to suddenly bash her and it's very uncomfortable. You know how it's been for any woman to be around deppy and suddenly people are bashing her, but Jesus Christ some of the comments are horrible. I hope she never sees it because it's absolutely toxic. They work with her, and I would hate that they had trouble behind the scenes because of this shit. I can see where people are coming from, with wanting to film or whatever, but sometimes rules are rules and she's just trying to do her job.

I really don't care that people are having a "little fun" with it, or think they're hot shit with their jokes, but the circle jerk of little shits on Twitter is really putting me off the phandom (even more than usual). Anyway, back to the show discussion or whatever.

/rant

The whole thing really winds me up... regardless of how she did or didn't behave. On the one hand you have Dan taking part in the Stop, Speak, Support campaign, which is about cyberbullying, which everyone is behind and thinks is a great idea. Then on the other, those same people are taking part in cyberbullying someone themselves. It doesn't matter how old the person is, it's still wrong.

I just hate the whole thing. I can only imagine what DnP think of it if they know about it.

[missemma]

Okay so I am on my way home from the second show and wow it was so much better than the first one.

I’ll put a review up in the Brighton thread tomorrow!

Regarding the drama towards their manager I personally think it’s disgusting. People can be so vile and should be ashamed of the way they’re acting.

ps. does anyone know where I can upload a fairly large audio file? I might have something to upload

[Foofie]

Okay so I am on my way home from the second show and wow it was so much better than the first one.

I’ll put a review up in the Brighton thread tomorrow!

Regarding the drama towards their manager I personally think it’s disgusting. People can be so vile and should be ashamed of the way they’re acting.

ps. does anyone know where I can upload a fairly large audio file? I might have something to upload

I'm so excited for your review!! I am no help with the audio clip but I am also excited for that

[MythicalPinkTrashCan]

I'm in need of tour spoilers! Not true, hardcore spoilers, but baby ones. Flashing lights are a HUGE migraine trigger for me. I need to know if this show is going to be flashy with those neon lights. (Or just flashy in general) If someone could either a)PM me if they know or b)direct me to someplace with the answer? Just so I can know how prepared to be. I don't wanna be at my show and just start barfing from pain.

Everyone, please ignore how dumb I was with this post. For some reason, I thought the first show was yesterday? I’m so confused.

Hello I’m bringing my mistake post back! Help a phannie out please?

[phantastically-avg]

Okay so I am on my way home from the second show and wow it was so much better than the first one.

I’ll put a review up in the Brighton thread tomorrow!

Regarding the drama towards their manager I personally think it’s disgusting. People can be so vile and should be ashamed of the way they’re acting.

ps. does anyone know where I can upload a fairly large audio file? I might have something to upload

Glad to hear the second show was better! I'll be interested to read your review and see if it was teething problems or the different content.

As for audio, you could upload it as unlisted to YT or create a shared dropbox folder and upload it there.

[liola]

Okay so I am on my way home from the second show and wow it was so much better than the first one.

I’ll put a review up in the Brighton thread tomorrow!

Regarding the drama towards their manager I personally think it’s disgusting. People can be so vile and should be ashamed of the way they’re acting.

ps. does anyone know where I can upload a fairly large audio file? I might have something to upload

You can upload it on google drive, the size limit for free accounts is 15gb so unless it's bigger than that you should be fine! You can also use dropbox

[bluewho]

Aaaaaaaah
I need an outlet to say i've just watched all the spoliers I can get my hands on and I am so emotional about the piano bit dan played! As far as Phil saying he lives in Dan's shadow goes I don't know why people are taking it so seriously since it's a diss track and it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I really hope they film the show at some point as I really want to watch the whole thing. Apparently Dan called them soulmates at some point and I need some context for this