Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

[glitterintheair]

Glad that Dan finally said something (also black heart emoji >>> smiling emoji). I feel like they settled for the easier explanation on why they had to merge the shows together; whatever it was that led them to make that choice, it's clear that it was the only option they had. I just hope everyone will end up having a good time regardless.

[Stakhanov]

@Ablissa Interesting about the show in Poland I missed that completely somehow. Didn't seem to draw the same ire as this change does?
Did Dan play with his regular piano then? I'm wondering what could possibly be both so important and unique to the set/equipment/ show in general that it can't either be rented, air lifted or circumvented creatively?

> well @thealexeffect that's kind of what i'm trying to figure out but which we don't have enough information about yet. Did they have no choice and were their really no alternatives? Or why did they make the choice exactly. I can think of some very legitimate reasons they wanted to merge the show and some more opportunistic ones but you can't really know unless they give more detailed info. If there is more story behind this, imo they should share it asap as I imagine that would mean a lot to the x number of people who no doubt will have felt wronged about this.

[glitterintheair]

@Stakhanov Considering that they always try to make sure shows do happen (i'm thinking about when they were advised to cancel one of the outside shows because of the rain and they insisted on performing anyway or when the st.augustine show basically was more than half unsold but they didn't cancel it), I really do believe that they didn't have any alternatives. I too wish they'd give us more info, they have a ls tomorrow (right?) so I hope they'll say something more, although I won't be surprised if they will not say more than what has been already said.

[Stakhanov]

Yup they should play open cards.

People who are just in it to bash them anyway will grab at any straw and do so anyway, so I don't even think it matters much and you're best of ignoring that small part of the audience but for the large majority of regular fans it would probably mean a lot if they gave like really detailed info and maybe a gram story with an apology (even if eg. they are not to blame and it's the Philippines absurd custom rules or whatever)

[lilabet]

I have a feeling they've said as much as they can or want to in regards to what caused the issue. They are juggling expectations with what they can actually do while factoring in the business side of things. As much as we are all curious we aren't actually owed more information about what caused the issue. They aren't going to throw a company, country or individual under the bus because we're curious. As much as that is frustrating sometimes it actually makes them good people.

[Stakhanov]

I agree that we're not owed anything in a formal or legal sense. They are I think trying to gather the facts and they've offered some solutions already. That's encouraging, but I do think they can do better and offer more detailed information, including their thought process on why merging the shows was the only option short from cancelling both. Giving an accurate and detailed explanation of what went wrong isn't the same as throwing people or even companies under the bus.
I don't doubt that they are trying to be good people, but being good to whom is the question. There's the people they work with and then there's the fans whose plans and budgets got hurt. So they need to walk a tight line here imo, but they do need to walk it or otherwise they are absolving themselves from their responsibility and that would reflect poorly on them too, imo.
Though I'd like to think them trying to increase profits out of merging the shows was not (the main) consideration here, that's also a possibility. I do find it rather suspect that they have enough 'reserve' for 'situations like this' and that they can basically seat thousands of people from the cancelled show without much problems fit the bookings with the second show. That's not a standard 'reserve' to keep. So were the sales for both shows performing badly? Did that play a role in their decision making? I'd hope it didn't.
They are making after all plenty of money, so I would except them to no just cancel one date in a very successful tour and leave people hanging just to make some more profit. But maybe financial motives weren't at play at all and there's other much more benign reasons. You just wouldn't know until they explain their motives more. They've just started clarifying some things after a way to short tweet, I hope they don't think they've arrived a the best destination yet.

[daisyholland]

As much as we are all curious we aren't actually owed more information about what caused the issue. They aren't going to throw a company, country or individual under the bus because we're curious. As much as that is frustrating sometimes it actually makes them good people.

i definitely agree. whilst i thought that yesterday's tweet was too little, this faq seems sufficient information in my opinion.

the precedent that they have set so far this year is very much a 'the show must go on' mentality. examples such as the polish show that was mentioned, st augustine, the 'unplugged' show etc lead me to believe that just a couple pieces being unavailable woud not cause them to make this decision.

i think we can be pretty much certain that whatever they could have performed on the 12th would have been very very little and major portions of the show would have to have been cut out.

liked dan's instagram story though (maybe his ears really were burning!! )

[hello9217]

I mean at my job if something goes wrong we aren't allowed to tell the customer why it went wrong; we are told by management that all we can do is apologize and help the customer find another solution to their issue. Dan and Phil and this tour is a business right now and at the end of the day, you sometimes have to balance of what you are allowed to say vs what you actually want to say.

[Buddahbug]

Just a take not a criticism
There was this feeling of we aren’t being given enough information but if you just communicate better and tell us exactly why these things are happening we’ll be satisfied.
Fast-forward..here’s much more Info, just wanted to make sure we had everything in order and here are the reasons we had to merge the shows.
Nope not enough info, and that reason doesn’t seem legitimate there must be more there not telling us.
This of course is not the opinion held by all or even most people across the many factions of the dnp-verse. It’s just one I found interesting. It just reiterates that no matter what is said or what actions are taken there are too many personalities involved for everyone to be satisfied.
I do hope that everyone involved in the Manila shows finds a way to to make it work for them and still have an amazing time despite the set backs. It looks like dnp and crew are doing everything they can to make that happen.
PS Thanks for the welcomes to IDB
.

[liola]

I really don't know what else they could say. Either it's really what they told us, aka custom and transportation in the country which is indeed a really messed up thing, or it's something with management/the venue/the profit. Either way they're not gonna tell us more, because they probably can't, not before they already performed at least.

I also think people are not considering they're likely losing an insurance on the booking of the venue, given that the venue had reserved two days for them and is now left with a spare day that can't be booked in such a short amount of time. So I really think if they could've performed that day they would've, and there must something that we don't know and probably shouldn't know. There's a line in the professional business that they cannot cross, because even if it would make us like them more, it would make them unreliable professionals to work with.

[Ablissa]

I'm sorry if my post came across as doubtful, that was not my intention. I was just curious, because they clearly can and have performed without the set, that's all. You're right that it's probably not the full reason and I don't expect them to tell us every little detail.

I think they're doing a better job trying to remedy that first day (smiley tweet and then disappearance because bedtime) and I was pleasantly surprised to see Dan actually took part in it too. And as I've said from the beginning, I really really do not believe this to be their fault.

@Stakhanov

The piano was the same as in all shows I *think*. They also had their crate and their outfits etc, but none of the fancy set or the wheel. Some people were upset by it, I honestly didn't care, the show was awesome regardless.

[Buddahbug]

There's a line in the professional business that they cannot cross, because even if it would make us like them more, it would make them unreliable professionals to work with.

[dancy]

As much as we are all curious we aren't actually owed more information about what caused the issue. They aren't going to throw a company, country or individual under the bus because we're curious. As much as that is frustrating sometimes it actually makes them good people.

i definitely agree. whilst i thought that yesterday's tweet was too little, this faq seems sufficient information in my opinion.

the precedent that they have set so far this year is very much a 'the show must go on' mentality. examples such as the polish show that was mentioned, st augustine, the 'unplugged' show etc lead me to believe that just a couple pieces being unavailable woud not cause them to make this decision.

i think we can be pretty much certain that whatever they could have performed on the 12th would have been very very little and major portions of the show would have to have been cut out.

liked dan's instagram story though (maybe his ears really were burning!! )

I agree with this, Phil's tweet was rather vague but I do think they've given enough information now and that they probably won't give any more. The other things that bothered me regarding their communication, such as no involvement from Dan and lack of information on other social media platforms have also been carried out (to a degree), so I'm fairly satisfied Any "Manila peeps" wanna share their thoughts?

Apparently D&P said at today's show that they'd be leaving Australia in a couple of hours, which surprises me as I recall them saying they'd be doing tomorrow's live show in Sydney. I also didn't think they'd be in such a hurry to leave Australia when their next show in Manila isn't until the 13th. Well, they should have enough time to film a certain video, shouldn't they?

[glitterintheair]

I wonder if they're planning on going somewhere just as tourists on vacation during these 10 days off, like they did last year when they went to Singapore on their way to Australia (and back). I kinda hope so.

[LurkingTrash]

I also would really love to hear about you guys from Manila, I'm hoping that the next few days bring the best outcome possible for every one of you.

While I now feel okay with how they have handled the situation I wanted to remind people that it's okay and understandable to feel upset over the whole thing still, we are all discussing logic and rationality about how there's no blame to dnp and how they are doing the best of what they can do and etc but if I put myself in Manila's fans shoes I would be upset over the situation too (still), it's one of these things that Sucks because despite people having answers now, no solution will be better than what people had originally planned for and hoped to have.

[Stakhanov]

@Buddahbug

hm I understand what you are saying, most of the 'controversies' that flare up in the fandom I find to be a storm in a glass water. In this case, imo at least, you can't deny that they have at least some kind of responsibility to communicate and find solutions. They insist the tour is "self-organized", and I do realize that means they don't have control over everything or that they were aware or to blame for what went wrong here, but at the end of the day it is companies that they choose to work with that have made this (good faith) mistake and i think people rightly look in Dan and Phil's direction for an explanation of why (in the worst cases) their trip went south.

I think they've made important first steps, but they aren't fully there yet imo. And I say this because I do hold them to high standards, precisely because I think high of them and because i'd like to think some of the confusion and criticisms people now give could be countered by frank and honest communication. There is a level of detail and explanation i really would be satisfied with, but for me that's not the limited one they have given as of yet. If it's just the set, well how do you explain Poland? If it's something else related to equipment, why is it impossible to find an different alternative. Do they perhaps insist on both shows in Manila being 'the best' and is that they didn't want people to have a different experience depending on what night they came? Is their some financial argument? Then they should make their case! I think a lot of people are willing to be reasonable. I truly think the more honest their communication is, the better for their relationship with the audience at large. The people who like to grab their torches and smite them for even the smallest of mistakes, let them be. They would just make themselves look ridiculous as the great majority of people affected can feel a bit better and have a sense that this unfortunate situation has good reasons.

@hello9217 This is by no means meant as an attack, but hearing that company policy just makes me shudder. That's imo a great example of how not to do customer service. It's no customer service, it's customer deception. What if the range of solutions available is no solution to the client? Much more fair to be honest about the failings of the company than to hide behind some wish-washy smokescreen of half-solutions and empty apologies. Luckily the companies I deal with who have this culture are few (maybe it's just a thing of telecom/isps :p ? ) but this is exactly why I always go to an ombudsman or give up on contacting customer service and ask for sales instead because for some mysterious reason if you threaten to just go elsewhere with your business often a lot more becomes possible. Hiring people for customer service and then not even giving the ability to answer truthfully to clients questions is a system set up by . I feel for the people who are put in the frontline and have to respond to all the frustrated people who want an explanation, while in some cases the higher management in a company knows full well what some failings are in the service and what they could do about it, it's just that it's sometimes easier and cheaper to put a human shield between it and try 'guide' customers to an easy solution for the company. Short-sighted business model and not something we should accept as consumers or even citizens.

[LtrllySusan]

I wonder if they're planning on going somewhere just as tourists on vacation during these 10 days off, like they did last year when they went to Singapore on their way to Australia (and back). I kinda hope so.

Perhaps Japhan?

And just as a closing remark from me, we are circling back to discussing the amount of info given, but much criticism was aimed at the way it was communicated, not the content itself.

[Phantasy]

I wonder if they're planning on going somewhere just as tourists on vacation during these 10 days off, like they did last year when they went to Singapore on their way to Australia (and back). I kinda hope so.

Perhaps Japhan?

And just as a closing remark from me, we are circling back to discussing the amount of info given, but much criticism was aimed at the way it was communicated, not the content itself.

That’s where my mind went to!!! Would love to see Japhan 2.0!

[knq]

I’m loving how many Instagram stories they did from that dressing room. I missed their backstage stories. I’m going to miss those when tour is over. I’M NOT READY

Something I’m confused by: Phil said he ‘went out and bought’ his Topman shirt again, but as far as I can tell there are no Topman shops in Australia? I didn’t even know we had Topman in the US until I googled it.

Maybe he means he bought it online. If Dan’s red hoodie isn’t actually Phil’s then he probs bought that recently as well. But then the phrasing ‘went out’ doesn’t make as much sense. I’m not saying there’s a conspiracy going on here, but I am saying if I could come up with one I WOULD be saying there’s a conspiracy going on here.

On a less ridiculous note, I’m surprised that those bothered by Phil’s tone took Dan’s IG story better. For me, the tone reads basically the same. Is it just the emoji? I know I have to be careful to avoid using smileys when I’m telling someone something disappointing, as my inclination is to throw hearts and smileys on everything in hopes that people won’t feel attacked or something, and Ive learned that can have the opposite effect. It didn’t even register with me until like a page through the Manila discussion that the smiley in Phil’s tweet read as insensitive to many.

[glitterintheair]

I wonder if they're planning on going somewhere just as tourists on vacation during these 10 days off, like they did last year when they went to Singapore on their way to Australia (and back). I kinda hope so.

Perhaps Japhan?

And just as a closing remark from me, we are circling back to discussing the amount of info given, but much criticism was aimed at the way it was communicated, not the content itself.

That’s where my mind went to!!! Would love to see Japhan 2.0!

I thought about Japhan 2.0 as well! Maybe it's just wishful thinking but a girl can dream

[Amiaw]

On a less ridiculous note, I’m surprised that those bothered by Phil’s tone took Dan’s IG story better. For me, the tone reads basically the same. Is it just the emoji? I know I have to be careful to avoid using smileys when I’m telling someone something disappointing, as my inclination is to throw hearts and smileys on everything in hopes that people won’t feel attacked or something, and Ive learned that can have the opposite effect. It didn’t even register with me until like a page through the Manila discussion that the smiley in Phil’s tweet read as insensitive to many.

I think at this point that most of the initial upset has had time to settle a little and while people are still not happy their initial anger went out to Phil and the first tweet. Tbh, it is nice that Dan finally weighed in but I still feel like he should have tweeted because he has 8 million followers on twitter and only 4 million on instagram. I asked myself why Phil tweeted before they had all of the info but people probably did need the extra couple of days to get their travel plans/plans in general adjusted. It just feels kind of empty that Dan now jumps in, after the extra information has been provided, and puts up an instagram story. At least he won't have to go through the effort of deleting it off of his timeline - it will just disappear in 24 hours but it would be nice for one of them to retweet about the situation and direct people to the tour site.

[Buddahbug]

@Stakhanov

I liked reading your take on the situation

Everyone has their own level of what they want and what they are willing to except. While there are extremes at both ends of the spectrum I think that a majority of people fall into a nice happy medium between I love being oblivious and what’s your blood type
Thats what’s great about opinions “a view not necessarily based in fact”.
They help us express and relay our thoughts and feelings to others. Other people’s opinions help
us see things from a prospective that we may not have considered before. No opinion can be wrong and no one should ever apologize for an opinion they have. We just have to remember that our opinions, dnps opinion and their managements opinion on how they’ve handled the situation will all vary.

IMO

[Ablissa]

I hate love you all for making me crave Japhan 2.0. I think that if it were possible for them to go they actually might, that trip was clearly special for them. Has anything at all been said about what they'll be doing during that time between shows?

[Stakhanov]

Agreed, though my opinion of Hitler being kind of a bad guy I hope would be based in more fact and considered valid by more people than just me. I don't think every opinion is equally valid, but we do always have our right to our own opinion.

That's why I hope we get more information. Assuming they are being truthful, we'd at least have more factual basis to on which to base our opinions on

I had hoped for a new bath pic of Dan, maybe with a new animal friend instead of last time's impressively sized rubber duck. But alas it seems the hotel cleaner might have put him on guard QQ

[phanfckingtastic]

I have many questions about this:

-

Also, yeah, I'm still curious about their schedule for the next few weeks, too re touristy plans etc
I hope we get a liveshow soon.