Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

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Winston
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gnostic wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:21 pm
sugar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:26 am i know phil is the most loving and caring partner he could ever ask for, but i also don't think phil can't really relate to dan's clinical depression, and therefore, from my experience, can't say much that will be all that helpful.
This is so insulting I logged in for the first time in like...a year to respond to that.

Yes, mental illness is a lonely struggle. Yet good, supportive partner of a person with a clinical depression can in fact understand it and be an immense help (especially when they know each other well, and gel together well). Definetely more chances of them being helpful than two random people with the same illness just randomly talking.

That is even before the fact that it is entirely possible (and should be done, for a good long term partner) to educate themselves scientifically and personally (via therapy, couple sessions, classes, books, and directions from the depressed partner) on the most helpful way to act and talk in and around it.
I agree so much with this. Just because someone doesn't have the same issue, it does not mean they can not be a tremendous help. It helps when a partner knows you enough to sense your moods, mental state. They don't have to also have felt the same thing to know how to help or know what the other needs. This video just showed me how attentive they are to one another, and that made me happy.
Not just happy, but comforted in the fact that Dan has Phil.

Depression is handled by everyone differently. Dan likes to use black/dark humor as a big part of talking about it. I get that, it takes some of the scary seriousness away from it for him (I assume). I do kind of the same thing with serious topics otherwise I just cry and nothing gets accomplished.

I think Phil also understands when Dan is actually having bad days and when he's relatively happy. Dan made the d&d video and we all were told many ways he takes care of himself. I am positive Phil knew all the ways he addressed in that video along with others he didnt talk about. There are probably little things Dan might not even realize himself, that Phil notices.

I'm sad so many people had such negative reactions to this video but like I said everyone deals with depression differently. I hope everyone who had a hard time with it can take the time and care for themselves as they need.
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In other news,
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hello9217 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:32 pm I can't help but compare this video with the Confession Roulette video they did in 2013. In that one Phil brings up that he can hear dan pacing around in his room at 5 in the morning. He later goes on to ask dan why he's doing that and that it's weird he does it in the first place. I'm assuming that this was a time when dan himself didn't even know to the full extent why he was doing it but it's so jarring to hear Phil call it weird and then later tell him it's not "normal human behavior." Like that sounds so harsh and phil probably didn't mean much by it but I'm sure that comment was not the greatest thing for dan to hear.
And now we have this video where Phil talks with dan through everything he brings up and just listens so openly and without any judgment to pass. Even when he did say something like bringing up that dan was doing good eating in front of people and dan didn't like the comment, Phil listened and agreed to what dan says and said he shouldn't have brought it up. It's just really nice to see how much they've grown together and how much they've worked on to become who they are now. They are so good now about reassuring each other that their valid and the things that they feel are fine even though it hasn't always been that way.
i havent finished reading all the recent posts yet but this one stood out to me cz i really love this mention of phil's character progression towards dan's depression. sometimes people can be empathetic towards others, but dont know the proper way to do it. there were hints of good intention when he asked the room pacing question, but to someone who could relate to dan in that moment, it can make you feel very vulnerable and attacked - hence, dan kinda wiggled his way out of it without answering the question. he could just have said "i am uncomfortable talking about that in front of people right now" but i myself understand how hard it is to do that. it takes courage and kindness to call out a loved one publicly (perhaps they had a talk privately after that, but who knows?) then theres also their "image" to uphold back then.

now, its a lot more different. you can tell how much theyve opened up to us over the recent years. just as how theyve progressed, so did we. communication and trust are usually the key to any healthy relationship - platonic or romantic. phil wouldnt have known how to properly empathize w dan's depression if he never bites the dust and ask questions. also, if dan was hesitant to open up to him or call him out on insensitive things he mightve unwittingly said, then there would be no progress. no one is perfect, but slowly they both learn how to be the best support for each other.
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liola
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I think each of us have different reactions to videos depending on what we feel. It's normal. I found this video incredibly warm and soft, because despite Dan being more open with the way he cope with mental illness, it won't ever be something completely gone, it's not how depression works. And it's good that he seems to be at a point in his life that he's comfortably living with it and acknowledging it not only to his inner circle but also the audience.

I think it's obvious how Phil is such a source of comfort and stability for Dan, and I think that's why I wasn't bothered by the more dark bits in the video. I'm pretty sure that if this had been a normal Dan video, if he had approached some of those topics by himself going in deep on them, I would feel different. The personality bit stood out to me, because it's something I too always worry about, but I was istantly comforted by how sure Phil said Dan does have a personality when he's around him only, and how Dan's face lightened up at that even as he joked about his Phil's face. You can tell they've been together for a decade by how assure they are in their togetherness even when it comes to difficult topics.

I'm one of those people who, for example, can't rewatch daniel & depression. I was and still am extremely proud of him for that video, but it was harrowing for me, I found myself bawling my eyes out at 1am after watching it and my mood (that wasn't that good at the time) just plummeted. I haven't watched it since, even the idea twists my stomach. That doesn't mean that it isn't a positive video that warmed other people, but imo I think my reaction would've been different if instead of acting out his friends, Dan had Phil do the parts - I feel comforted in the idea that he's found someone that obviously understands him so deeply and is there for him.

It's good that even a video that seemed so silly managed to bring out such interesting discussions, but I think we should all take a bit of a step back when it comes to projecting our own mental health reactions on Dan and Phil :shrug:
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RiriPandaHeart2 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:00 pm Thank you @flarequake and @itasca00 for answering my queries. :love1: :ribena:

With regard to "putting on masks" in front of people, isn't it a thing everyone does? Like don't people necessarily adjust to whoever they're with? Even with the closest people i have in my life, there's certain "masks" I put on. Like I'm more polite when I'm speaking with my elders and very casual when I speak to people my age or younger than me. But both aspects are part of me. I actually found Dan saying "I have no personality" interesting because it's something I've said to friends irl when we've had this topic of conversation. But I took it to mean the way I mean it, in the sense that, I think a person doesn't have a "fixed" personality. I mean, isn't just knowingly not doing something you would want to do that could displease someone close to you already putting up a mask? That's how I take it anyway. Although it's a topic of conversation that's dangerous to have (I have a friend who got mad at me when I asked her opinion about that topic because the way she took it was me being fake with her). But I don't really think putting up a mask is being disingenuous, as long as a person is not lying or making the other people believe in something that doesn't exist. For me, it's just a coping mechanism. I'm not articulating myself well, but I hope someone gets what I'm trying to say. :?
That's the point I was trying to make. Everyone does use some social masks and they are part of who we are. Doesn't mean everyone uses the same amount of filtering, it's different from person to person and situation to situation how much of our genuine selves we show. Some people are generally more open, others are generally more guarded.
The social masks comment I found particularly interesting in combination with the remarks Phil made about how they didn't sell their sofa but decided to get comfortable and sit down in front of the camera. Because it reminds me that they too are putting on masks when they are recording the video. They're trying to create atmosphere, they've thought about the concept of the video, it affects what they are willing to say and do... It broke the fourth wall and reminded me that the reality we see on camera is to some degree an illusion.

Which is not to say that everything they said in the video is totally fake or planned. I like the video so much because it appeared more genuine and personal than most of their content. In spite of that I find it valuable to remind myself (and others) that it is, in part, and illusion. The people talking to me are not friends that know me, they are entertainers who play a role, besides being their charming selves. If you read some youtube comments or other things fandomsphere I feel that reality might get lost to some (and i'm not talking about anyone here specifically to be clear).
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Ataraxia25
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so beautiful

dan is really good at taking phil's picture

edit : i wanted to make it my lockscreen but the time and date are masking phils beautiful face :(
Last edited by Ataraxia25 on Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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i hate him. things that beautiful shouldn't exist
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im sitting in our staff break room and im starting my shift in literally 3 minutes bUT PHIL GOTTA BE A HOTTIE ON INSTA, COME ON MAN LET ME BREATHE
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Literally gasped when I saw that. Phil Lester, why are you so beautiful.
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Omg this is one of the best pictures of Phil EVER he looks so good.
I miss Dan Howell's stupid face.
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Ataraxia25 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:40 pm so beautiful

dan is really good at taking phil's picture

edit : i wanted to make it my lockscreen but the time and date are masking phils beautiful face :(
um. How dare?
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Phil out here murdering the people twice in one week, smh.
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My god I already have trouble breathing this week and he is not making it easier
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and the beauty of Phil Lester.

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God, the quiff really made him so much more confident, it's crazy. He's so beautiful and hot and yeah. What a talented man.
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ratlad
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first things first: Phil Lester is gorgeous and i would do anything for him.
okay, now!
on the topic of the video and how it's an "illusion" that some of us might get tricked by and blasted out of reality all cause they're sitting on the floor- hm, no. i don't think any of us are putting a big meaning to the fact that they're in their pajamas and sitting on the floor for the video. doesn't really seem like a lot of us think that it's done to make us feel like we're special or having a more intimate moment with dan and phil,, they're literally just in their comfortable clothes, probably what they wear most times during take-out dinner.. but like any proper mukbang, they have a table with food in front of them so we can see it while they eat.
and yeah, they most likely had notes to go off of in the video, but a lot of it was probably natural banter.

about phil not being understanding of dan's depression: i think phil understands in a way that is supportive, knows dan's boundaries, his mood changes and what to/what not to do for dan in his depressive state. i would actually argue that it is really nice to have someone around that hasn't experienced your struggles, to just listen to you and maybe do something that would comfort you.
*trigger warning-talk about Eating Disorders/depression*
my previous therapist hasn't dealt with disordered eating nor anybody with those issues, but when i brought up my struggles to him, he would let me talk freely without judgement. he didn't at all understand my worries or feelings, but he somehow knew what to say/not to say if that makes sense... kind of like as if he learned overtime from what i've told him (i am not at all giving myself all credit)
and he helped me with getting a lot better, actually. he listened and helped me with rational thinking from an outsider POV.
it helped more than talking to my mom, who has struggled with ED's in the past. she would just belittle me and act like i could simply get over it. it's like we brought out the worst in each other cause both of our struggles clashed together, since we're at different points in our illnesses. we didn't understand each other and it was too long ago for her to remember how it felt ro be in my shoes, and i haven't even got to the point of recovery to where i can actually think rationally for myself at the time.
i'm not saying that it's bad to have a support system where the other person is also struggling with the same issues, not at all. what i am saying is that it's not completely hopeless when you have someone supporting you who doesn't struggle with the same issues. sometimes other people with depression can't do much to help someone else in a depressive state, that's okay. but it's completely possible to have a person with opposite experiences help you with these things and learn how to guide you through it over time. @sugar i don't think what you said was rude, i understand what you mean. i'm just giving a little bit of a personal experience that other's may relate to and possibly make things less worrying with other possibilities (i don't have that much power, i just wanna help tbh)
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Phil really ages like a fine wine, he just gets more beautiful by the day :loveeyes:
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Do you guys think there's any chance for a liveshow - possibly a joint one - tomorrow or will they count the mukbang as one for this week? I feel like they could use a ls to #spon the ii movie and the mukbang vid, but who knows. (also there are still those Rize winners to announce, right? And the app is shutting down tomorrow, iirc)
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Stakhanov wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:30 am That's a remarkable statement imo, I don't really see the link between eating pizza and Dan monetizing his suffering. The way I understand Dan, you have to be careful with taking his words literally.
When I went to bed last night I thought to myself: Was monetizing his suffering really the best phrasing I could have used there? So like, thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify what I meant. I was concerned someone might read what I wrote and think I disapprove of Dan talking about suffering or his mental health in videos. I hope that no one did, or if they did they also happen to read this and know that wasn't what I meant.

What I was trying to refer to was a specific tendency Dan has to dissect himself and his personality in the process of making a video. I wonder and I worry whether he sews himself back together once the cameras are off. If asking 'do I have a personality?' is opening a wound, has that wound been left open to bleed out or is it being properly cared for with like, stitches and frequently changed bandages and conversations with his loved ones and therapist?
Stakhanov wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:30 am I don't understand why you blame him so much then for saying food comforts him.
I don't.
Stakhanov wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:30 am I don't think he specifically said it makes 'his anxieties go away'
It's an interrupted sentence, but he does between 13:30-13:45
Stakhanov wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:30 am but even if he did, what's so bad about food as a coping mechanism, not liking to eat before his youtube audience since he views mukbang as something potentially sexual and kinky, and then make a video eating a pizza with Phil? I'll grant you that there is an inconsistency there, but it's hardly the only thing where he claims to hate or not like something, then goes on and does it anyway.
Dan not wanting to do the mukbang because he views it as kinky is an interpretation that I hadn't personally thought about. From my perception, both he and Phil seem fascinated and amused by kinks and fetishes.

I think you've hit the nail on the head by pointing out that Dan often claims to dislike something (or explains why it is painful for him) and then goes on to do that thing, sometimes with the implication that he is doing it "for" the audience. It's often but not always played for laughs. I don't take him entirely literally, but it's a joke he's been making for ~9 years and after that long it's clear it isn't only a joke. There's some lasting truth or meaning in it that makes it relevant over that kind of period of time. It's more the overall story they're telling than just Dan saying food is a coping mechanism for anxiety, eating food on camera makes him anxious, and then watching him eat food on camera that triggers my 'er, do I want to be a part of this?' senses, though that's the easiest concrete example to point out.

But I'm aware I'm taking a particularly gloomy outlook because that's just where I'm at at the moment. So now I'm going to list some mukbang moments I appreciate.

lovely things~
0:25 From the very beginning they're talking about easing themselves into 'main channel' videos as if dinof and AP are one (shared) entity and the gaming channel is another. Phil says Dan is being lured onto a main channel video "like a mysterious animal. Come on, I've got snacks." :squirrel:
5:20 Dan telling the camera "he can't, he's. he can't get it" in the middle of teasing Phil about getting the pizza. :happytears: Phil's "he looks like Zac Efron I can't go" is a callback to the iconic "i can't I don't have legs'"
7:00 Dragon Dan and his Den of Dips. P: "He hordes them like Smaug. I can't even get near it."
7:25 The importance of tearing boxes neatly is explained.
8:20 Phil realizes that stopping to discuss the width of Dan's hips and Dan's need to explain each part of the pizza order means the food is going to get cold but it's too late to do anything about it now.
10:00 I do actually find it very sweet that Phil acknowledges Dan's discomfort while also keeping it light and playful. P: "Dan doesn't like eating on camera so I'm hoping I can just eat the whole thing."
11:25 D: "This is very interesting. The first thing I went for was a wedge in bbq sauce." P: "You're a fascinating guy." :lol: I adore a sassy Phil.
12:25 Dan would like to know if the penises were French. Phil claims he didn't look at the penises for too long. Dan eyerolls.
13:23 Dan finds something embarrassing but tells Phil "you do you." :love1:
13:25 D: "The bread is so good." P: "A poem by Dan."
16:40 Phil suggesting Dan do a silent mukbang where he just does faces is one among many examples of how fascinating Phil continues to find Dan--and Dan's face.
17:45 Dan telling the camera "The trainer had his work cut out with Phil." P: "He was like what's happening?" D: "Right hook! And Phil would be like left uppercut! Are you paying attention? You're gonna get bopped." This whole exchange may be the loveliest of all. Dan seems so fond when he's describing the trainer's confusion around Phil and his lefts and rights. This is the low-key, authentic version of Dan proudly describing himself as Phil Trash #1.
18:05 This is as painful as it is lovely, but I can't leave it out because Phil is truly being lovely here, staying attuned to Dan and praising what he sees as success even if Dan doesn't. :brokenheart: P: Hey, you're doing well. You're eating, and people are watching.
20:45 Phil comparing Dan to a hibernating bear pleases Dan. I am noticing a trend here.
21:25 Dan preemptively defends Phil's enjoyment of live shows against imagined criticism.
22:40 Can I just have Dan's soft "You brought my candle over?" play on loop please?
23:10 I'm not really sure why Dan laughs and thanks Phil here but it is cute, as is 'you're really messy' combined with thigh touching.
24:25 Phil's tone and Dan smiling before Phil's even finished saying to just choose the next outfit along the line makes me think they've had this conversation enough times to agree that they're just too different in this area to really relate to each other. Dan's "That's how you end up with ensembles like this!" sounds like the usual quip he makes to a running joke. It's also sweet how quickly he's willing to admit Phil's t-shirt is actually great.
25:05 Phil was harrowed by the Handmaiden's Tale and I'm proud of him for it.
25:45 Dan has been compared to a mysterious animal, a dragon, a bear, and now a cocooned creature (assuming butterfly based on his feelings on moths) in this one video. You do you daniel.
26:10 Anyone else just feel proud of Dan for addressing the possibility that people he once knew might be watching this video and clarifying that he avoids them because of his own problems and not theirs?
27:15 Lets all just appreciate Northern Phil and his little head tilts.
28:38 Phil chooses to take Dan's comment about personality seriously and (tries to) reassure him. :love1: :brokenheart:
30:05 "Get those guns out for the North" and Phil shifting so he's sitting closer to Dan.
30:15 D: "Can you finish a cookie right now?" P: "Hell yeah." Their faces and tones here are just everything that is sweet and good and lovely about the universe.
31:00 Dan is a rebel who microwaves cookies for 10 seconds instead of 8 and he cannot be stopped.
33:00 I didn't notice until now, but after Dan says "I'm on there" (the gaming channel) he says "I'm on here" (Phil's channel). So that's. That happened.
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I very much appreciated the mukbang. I find Dan fascinating to listen to, and I'm constantly freaked out by how similar our experience of depression is. Even down to the pacing, which is something I've done since I was a child, and the weird introspective self hatred. Even down to using food as a comfort blanket. Daniel and Depression still feels like a small personal attack on me - it's like my second favourite video of all time because of how uncomfortable it makes me. It forced me to confront things about myself that I cannot stand.

I'd love to see more of this type of video. One of my favourite liveshows of all time is Dan making thai green curry because I just like the social aspect of food. And the food aspects of food, I get far too excited over food - like I made vegan buffalo 'chicken' tacos a few weeks ago and I'm still not over them.

Anyway. This is pretty much everything I want from them. I feel like I've grown up with Dan especially and he feels like a mirror to myself. I'm currently working very hard on myself and the things I hate about myself and realising I am consumed by anxiety most of the time. And I like hearing him express the same sentiment? I like the vulnerability and I like the honesty. And honestly, I just like that they can sit down and chat like that in front of a camera and it's not as forced. It's freeing and it's exciting and I hope this continues

I just love them and I feel like I'm growing with them and it makes me so happy?

Also Phil. Fuck me.


There are a million ways to read that and all of them are correct. I would pay money for a daily photo of Phil. Seriously.
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sparkle wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:45 pmI would pay money for a daily photo of Phil. Seriously.
capita£ester, you hearing this? daily photo subscription service... :ourmoney:
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ame wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:11 am :rainbowsparkle: :sparkle: <3 <3 <3 :rainbowsparkle1: :sparkle:

Attention, dear IDBers!
I know were all still gushing over the latest video but I'm dropping by to say that the #phanniversary poster is ready! Our wonderful @Ablissa had already made the tumblr post and twitter live, so please help us spread the word.

Here are the links to the tumblr post and tweet!

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to drop by the Dan&Phil Watch Parties forum.
Thank you so much and we'll see you there!!!

:rainbowsparkle: :sparkle: :thankyou: :rainbowsparkle: :sparkle:
Sorry to come back with the #spon, but the showing is just a few days away! We're meeting up on Sunday, I hope a lot of IDB users will be there! <3
We still need help sharing the post, it didn't gain much traction yet. I have reached out to some people outside IDB that have bigger followings (which is so so mortifying lol) and I'm waiting for a response.
Please reblog again if you feel like it: tumblr or twitter (if you already retweeted, there are new tweets to rt every day)

Thank you & hope to see you on Sunday <3 And a huge thank you to those that already shared it, ily :love1:
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Winston wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:26 pm
gnostic wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:21 pm
sugar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:26 am i know phil is the most loving and caring partner he could ever ask for, but i also don't think phil can't really relate to dan's clinical depression, and therefore, from my experience, can't say much that will be all that helpful.
This is so insulting I logged in for the first time in like...a year to respond to that.

Yes, mental illness is a lonely struggle. Yet good, supportive partner of a person with a clinical depression can in fact understand it and be an immense help (especially when they know each other well, and gel together well). Definetely more chances of them being helpful than two random people with the same illness just randomly talking.

That is even before the fact that it is entirely possible (and should be done, for a good long term partner) to educate themselves scientifically and personally (via therapy, couple sessions, classes, books, and directions from the depressed partner) on the most helpful way to act and talk in and around it.
I agree so much with this. Just because someone doesn't have the same issue, it does not mean they can not be a tremendous help. It helps when a partner knows you enough to sense your moods, mental state. They don't have to also have felt the same thing to know how to help or know what the other needs. This video just showed me how attentive they are to one another, and that made me happy.
Not just happy, but comforted in the fact that Dan has Phil.

Depression is handled by everyone differently. Dan likes to use black/dark humor as a big part of talking about it. I get that, it takes some of the scary seriousness away from it for him (I assume). I do kind of the same thing with serious topics otherwise I just cry and nothing gets accomplished.

I think Phil also understands when Dan is actually having bad days and when he's relatively happy. Dan made the d&d video and we all were told many ways he takes care of himself. I am positive Phil knew all the ways he addressed in that video along with others he didnt talk about. There are probably little things Dan might not even realize himself, that Phil notices.

I'm sad so many people had such negative reactions to this video but like I said everyone deals with depression differently. I hope everyone who had a hard time with it can take the time and care for themselves as they need.
i definitely didn't mean for it to come across as insulting, it's just what's been true from my own experience. none of my friends, family, or past romantic partners have been able to understand what i go through or offer any real comfort when i'm at my lowest. i guess i shouldn't have spoken so generally about something i only know from my personal life but it's nice to know that there are people out there who have better experiences with that.
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Over the years I've seen people bring up Phil's comment about Dan's pacing not being 'normal human behavior' a lot, and while I agree that it wasn't very sensitive and that Phil has grown more empathetic towards Dan's issues since then, I don't think that that is something he would have said in private? The Confession Roulette thing was supposed to just be a funny BBC thing that all the DJs did, and bringing up the pacing in the first place was probably a mistake. Phil probably realized that a bit too late and decided that the best way to go about it was making a 'humorous' comment like that. Maybe not the best choice, but it also wasn't the time or place to go in depth about Dan's mental health.
goodbants wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:48 am
Catallena wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:46 pm @RachelPhan It sucks that you felt like that about the video! I hope you're doing okay after that panic attack.

While not exactly for the same reasons, I actually had a reaction like yours to Daniel And Depression, which is another popular video that almost everyone loves. I hate it. I always feel awful for saying that because I recognize that it's a well made video and that it's important to Dan and many other people. But I just can't. When I watched it I felt ill. Not even just mentally, but physically. I have never rewatched it and tbh I never want to. I can't put myself through the aftermath of that again, which was more than a week of being in a very bad place. And then I felt even more shit about me feeling that way because nobody else seemed to be feeling like that :(

I'm glad that you shared your experience :love2:
@Catallena I just wanted to say that you're not alone, I had a very bad reaction to Daniel and Depression as well. That's crazy, I didn't know other people felt the same way I did. I felt guilty too that I didn't like it the way others did. In theory it's a really good video that's helped a lot of people but watching it makes me feel sick. I'm not really sure why. I can usually watch videos about depression without it being too triggering... but there's something about hearing Dan talk about depression. I guess I feel such a personal connection to him that hearing his struggles is just too real for me. I love Dan. He''s the embodiment of everything I love and I have idolized him for years. I hate myself. It's so hard to hear him feeling the same things I have felt, and knowing that he's overcome them and is going on world tours with his best friend while I'm still laying in bed and haven't showered for three days. Just being honest here.
Much love to you :love2:

I'm the same. I normally don't really have problems with content that discusses mental health. So when I had such an extreme reaction to that video I was very confused. For me, I don't know if it was because it came from Dan specifically. But what you said about how you start comparing the way someone else deals with their depression compared to yourself is very true. I suppose that for many people seeing stuff like that is... motivational? That they feel comforted in knowing that if someone they admire can overcome struggles and live with their depression, that they can to. For me, it seems to have the opposite effect. I guess that might have to do with a negative self image on top of depression. I know a lot of people who suffer from depression have a negative self image as part of the deal, but for me it's been a thing that has always existed on top of that :shrug:

@opendoorI'm glad that your feel better after that break. I needed a week off at the time, at least to have the discussion and constant confrontation with the existence of that video blow over.
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alittledizzy
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