IDB

@anushwa
I hope with a burning passion that Dan will say "to hell with the algorithm" and come back with some opinionated, interesting video's like philosophytube. I've got the sense there's some topics where he could do that - politics for example. Most of his video's have had a bit of a philosophical bent to them and I think he could bring his unique approach to a lot of current issues.

On the issue of humility and humiliation, that was one other thing i disagreed on in the video. I just don't agree with her that comedy should come from 'the darkness within' to be art. I don't think she needs to feel as a representative of her community and I don't think she should balance her humor with positive messages about her community. I think she likes to do that and it's an interesting and valid approach. It's good that that type of content exists. However, I don't think everyone who is a trans person for example should be bound to have that responsibility (as I think she implies when she says she has this responsibility she didn't ask for). No matter how prominent you are or which influence you have, It ought to be a personal choice to identify and or speak for a cause. At least for entertainers and the vast majority of people. There are certain public functions like in the courts, police forces or politics where I think other responsibilities apply that are a bit more binding.
I also view things differently from Hannah Gadsby on self-deprecation, humility and humiliation. I don't think self-deprecation is equal to humiliation when you are already in the margins. In the same way, I don't think dark humor is equal to gallows humor and must necessarily change from a grim joke to an execution just because you're a performer or in the audience.
( disclosure: I haven't seen the full show and I'm basing myself on the arguments she brings up in this clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hatugEP8ZAE that goes a bit deeper into her reasoning as the clip in the contrapoints vid)
When she says that she was using self-deprecation to 'beat other to the pun' and to seek permission to speak, and feels that she humiliated herself in doing that; that is one specific interpretation and motivation for using self-deprecation that no doubt rings true for her but can't be generalized to be true for everyone who's making self-deprecating jokes. Dan has given some insight into his own motivations, which were quite different. He likes to joke about depression because it helps him to make light of it (when he feels the need to) , to see it as something that is part and partly seperate from him and doesn't wholly define them, etc. More generally, I don't think it's sound to assume that a joke must have a different meaning when somebody who tells it belongs to a certain group vs when a person doesn't. That is an arbitrary criterium to me, much like you would say person X is a certain way because he belongs to a group X. I think reality is much more complex and there is no one simple dynamic (including a dichotomy like the privileged vs the marginalized) which allows us to characterize a joke or form of humor as appropriate.

I think a thing to note when comparing Dan to Contrapoints or PhilosophyTube is that they both have actual academic degrees. Natalie used to be a grad student at an acclaimed university and I’m pretty sure that Olly has a master’s....in philosophy. I do think that Dan is a genuinely intelligent person, but he has no extended academic experience and hasn’t been in education for years, and those things are at least a definite setback if you’re aiming to do good-quality, long-form videos on political and/or philosophical issues. I can see him doing ’serious’ videos about matters that are somehow personal to him, in the same vein as Daniel and Depression, about mental health/sexuality/whatever. But I do have a hard time seeing Dan as a video essayist. I’m also not convinced that it’s fully what he’d like to do, either. Even if that jacksepticeye tweet he liked is some kind of an omen for change, I’m not expecting anything that radical. So is he personally interested in that type of content? Sure. But consuming it is very different from making it. He’s welcome to prove me wrong though (please upload?).

Finally an acknowledgement of the truth.

@bevioletsky we'll take anything at this point to get a look at his bread like face
his content is very different but i think dan does his content justice and that's what i care for, so does he clearly (more than he should maybe) he's good at what he does, youtuber burnout is quite common though so... his break is understandable. I hope he comes back feeling replenished and ready to share.

Seems like nothing is happening today. I'm kind of relieved tbh, but I won't rest until about midnight their time.

While we're waiting to see if anything happens, why don't you join the final round of today's watch fest? We're watching some fetus dnp

https://www.rabb.it/s/9n77xj

Anyone else just have a mild cardiac event when he tweeted a YouTube link? That ass knew what he was doing.

Very interesting responses he’s giving to the replies...hmm

Is this some kind of British idiom i'm not aware of or did he just suggest internet support group no 10 will be released in march? Featuring some 2018 memes?

Gotta say that IDB was pretty on-point this time.


Also, this was interesting because it sounds like he's not really going to kill his channel, which I have been honestly worried about:

Well if my 'they are moving' tinhat had slipped at all in the past couple weeks, Dan saying the aesthetic has to be ready before he can film again secured it back into place.

Stakhanov wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:24 pm Is this some kind of British idiom i'm not aware of or did he just suggest internet support group no 10 will be released in march? Featuring some 2018 memes?

I think he's just saying that he likes triologies and sets of 10. So there's no more "top dan memes" because there was 3, and there's no more PINOFs because there were 10.

My lifespan decreases every time Dan mentions his 'aesthetics'

alittledizzy wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:31 pm

Well if my 'they are moving' tinhat had slipped at all in the past couple weeks, Dan saying the aesthetic has to be ready before he can film again secured it back into place.

I’m feeling more and more that Dan doesn’t really have a plan for this hiatus... certainly doesn’t sound like a new video is imminent.

Stakhanov wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:24 pm Is this some kind of British idiom i'm not aware of or did he just suggest internet support group no 10 will be released in march? Featuring some 2018 memes?

I think it just means Top Memes and PINOF are dead just like DAPCrafts, if only sleepless Night had been left as a trilogy.

What does it mean to have almost lived one’s truth?

I feel safe in saying it now: I’m so glad he didn’t post today! (Not that I don’t love seeing him, just that nothing would have satisfied the phandom)

Also he called himself dan is not on ‘fore’ in his second tweet

I’m really glad he didn’t post today but I am so over the whole mystery of what he’s doing. I have given my opinions on it before so I’ll spare everyone but I really dislike when he talks about trying to validate his career. I don’t like how dismissive that sounds to the rest of his content and to the fans that enjoyed it.

Amiaw wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:54 pm I have given my opinions on it before so I’ll spare everyone but I really dislike when he talks about trying to validate his career. I don’t like how dismissive that sounds to the rest of his content and to the fans that enjoyed it.

As a content creator myself, I'd just note that looking for validation of your career is pretty common. It sucks that it makes you feel that he's dismissing his audience or his content - I'd say it's just HARD to be a creator with a job with no roadmap. It's hard to be in a job where it doesn't have a category in government forms or doesn't exist in drop-down menus, and where you can't really explain it to immigration officers or people you meet in a hotel bar, without a lot of explaining.

Anyway, I wouldn't take it personally. It's a really hard part about being a creator or generally working in new media, and I get that he's searching for validation - I do it all the time too, even though I get great emails and tweets from fans every day.

plinthofmylife wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:15 am

Amiaw wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:54 pm I have given my opinions on it before so I’ll spare everyone but I really dislike when he talks about trying to validate his career. I don’t like how dismissive that sounds to the rest of his content and to the fans that enjoyed it.

As a content creator myself, I'd just note that looking for validation of your career is pretty common. It sucks that it makes you feel that he's dismissing his audience or his content - I'd say it's just HARD to be a creator with a job with no roadmap. It's hard to be in a job where it doesn't have a category in government forms or doesn't exist in drop-down menus, and where you can't really explain it to immigration officers or people you meet in a hotel bar, without a lot of explaining.

Anyway, I wouldn't take it personally. It's a really hard part about being a creator or generally working in new media, and I get that he's searching for validation - I do it all the time too, even though I get great emails and tweets from fans every day.

I think what makes people uneasy as far as Dan and validation goes, is that he often seems to yearn for a different audience. One that isn't overwhelmingly made up of young girls and women. He said during tour that he meeting 'us' made him realize that we're actually pretty diverse, but idk... that still won't get him the sort of acknowledgement that he craves. Dan once started his YouTube career because he wanted to belong to a group that he deemed cool at the time. But now that's all cringe and terrible, and he wants validation from the people he admires now. And I can definitely see why people feel that that is dismissive, because in the end we're all part of that past. Especially since it seems he has been actively excluding us ever since 'now onto the future' by just... not talking to us.

I'm v negative rn and contemplating my future in the phandom don't mind me. Has nothing to do with Dan not uploading today btw.

plinthofmylife wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:15 am

Amiaw wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:54 pm I have given my opinions on it before so I’ll spare everyone but I really dislike when he talks about trying to validate his career. I don’t like how dismissive that sounds to the rest of his content and to the fans that enjoyed it.

As a content creator myself, I'd just note that looking for validation of your career is pretty common. It sucks that it makes you feel that he's dismissing his audience or his content - I'd say it's just HARD to be a creator with a job with no roadmap. It's hard to be in a job where it doesn't have a category in government forms or doesn't exist in drop-down menus, and where you can't really explain it to immigration officers or people you meet in a hotel bar, without a lot of explaining.

Anyway, I wouldn't take it personally. It's a really hard part about being a creator or generally working in new media, and I get that he's searching for validation - I do it all the time too, even though I get great emails and tweets from fans every day.

I appreciate this perspective! I do think fans get caught up in the 'this is about us' and don't allow for much 'this is about him' sometimes.

(See: the massive wave of negativity on the heels of Dan not uploading/Dan tweeting. Individually I support everyone's right to their feelings and expressing them but to step back and see the trend it definitely feels like one of those situations where people were ready to react strongly and unhappily no matter what he did or did not do today.)

alittledizzy wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:31 pm

Well if my 'they are moving' tinhat had slipped at all in the past couple weeks, Dan saying the aesthetic has to be ready before he can film again secured it back into place.

I'm surprised this isn't getting more coverage. I might be reaching, but it does sound like another Moving Theory Proof for me.
This makes me even more curious about what Dan is up to and how much of it we will be allowed to see once he does come back in some shape or form.

Oh, no, that reply about his “career”... I’m eye rolling. (And not entirely his fault, I believe a big part of Dan’s lack of self-awareness re his solo work is a product of getting very popular fast and young, so no hate pls don’t @ me lol)
But from that tweet I see the ego remains in 2019, which is my least favourite Dan attribute.
Mate, drop the teasing, start making videos with more layers and depth than flowery descriptions of obvious mundane stuff, and then I’ll absolutely agree you’re darkness instead of edge.
To me, mature content doesn’t mean talk about sex and mortgages, but rather sophisticated content. And he completely has the charisma, some brilliant moments and potential, but that’s something his work isn’t yet imo.

I’m sticking to my previous comment suggesting that he would benefit from writing partner(s) aside from Phil. The work should be able to be understood on its own, without liveshows for added context or clarified intentions. I think he should work with comedy professionals that can mentor and help him to elevate the content and become who he wants to be creatively.
I’m more than open to his next video being a masterpiece that shuts me up, however keeping the past decade in mind, I reckon bringing in a new perspective to break through his (human and artistic) limitations would do him good.

Oh, and good luck with the move!

Catallena wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:32 am

plinthofmylife wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:15 am

Amiaw wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:54 pm I have given my opinions on it before so I’ll spare everyone but I really dislike when he talks about trying to validate his career. I don’t like how dismissive that sounds to the rest of his content and to the fans that enjoyed it.

As a content creator myself, I'd just note that looking for validation of your career is pretty common. It sucks that it makes you feel that he's dismissing his audience or his content - I'd say it's just HARD to be a creator with a job with no roadmap. It's hard to be in a job where it doesn't have a category in government forms or doesn't exist in drop-down menus, and where you can't really explain it to immigration officers or people you meet in a hotel bar, without a lot of explaining.

Anyway, I wouldn't take it personally. It's a really hard part about being a creator or generally working in new media, and I get that he's searching for validation - I do it all the time too, even though I get great emails and tweets from fans every day.

I think what makes people uneasy as far as Dan and validation goes, is that he often seems to yearn for a different audience. One that isn't overwhelmingly made up of young girls and women. He said during tour that he meeting 'us' made him realize that we're actually pretty diverse, but idk... that still won't get him the sort of acknowledgement that he craves. Dan once started his YouTube career because he wanted to belong to a group that he deemed cool at the time. But now that's all cringe and terrible, and he wants validation from the people he admires now. And I can definitely see why people feel that that is dismissive, because in the end we're all part of that past. Especially since it seems he has been actively excluding us ever since 'now onto the future' by just... not talking to us.

I'm v negative rn and contemplating my future in the phandom don't mind me. Has nothing to do with Dan not uploading today btw.

It’s cool that Dan wants a different kind of audience and all that, but am I the only one who think that he has sort of build this unrealistic fantastic idea about what a more intelligent and diverse audience would do?

It seems nice at first glance, but a more mature and intelligent audience wouldn’t really put up with some of Dan’s bullshit. They wouldn’t stuck around for months without content and would just watch another Youtuber who is probably smarter and uploads more regular content.

They would even find faults on his opinions and ideologies and confront him for it. And we all know Dan didn’t really respond well to criticism and take everything quite personally. I’m not underestimating Dan’s intelligence. He’s obviously really smart at a lot of things. It’s just that he never get a formal education to talk about something more serious like philosophy and stuff. I appreciate him sharing his opinions and I totally think he’s a great guy for wanting to spread good messages. It’s just that sometimes I get the impression that he just read some things on the internet and really take it. I’m not saying the internet can’t be credible, but... yeah.

I mean, I know the Phandom has its crazy and worst moments too that are totally not okay, I’m not trying to gloss over it. But they would still wait for almost a year without content and still coddle him.

So yeah, I know this sounds bitter. Sorry, I just suddenly vomit all these words. But this is just what I’m feeling right now.

Has Dan explicitly said that he wants to make academic level philosophy videos? Or is Dan's intelligence being roasted right now based on a purely fan projected theory that people made and then got angry about? It feels to me like the kind of videos Dan's tried to make, while still more than open to criticism about being fake-deep, have been fairly exclusively based around his own perspectives and his own musings on his own life.

rikonee wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:07 am

Catallena wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:32 am

plinthofmylife wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:15 am

Amiaw wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:54 pm I have given my opinions on it before so I’ll spare everyone but I really dislike when he talks about trying to validate his career. I don’t like how dismissive that sounds to the rest of his content and to the fans that enjoyed it.

As a content creator myself, I'd just note that looking for validation of your career is pretty common. It sucks that it makes you feel that he's dismissing his audience or his content - I'd say it's just HARD to be a creator with a job with no roadmap. It's hard to be in a job where it doesn't have a category in government forms or doesn't exist in drop-down menus, and where you can't really explain it to immigration officers or people you meet in a hotel bar, without a lot of explaining.

Anyway, I wouldn't take it personally. It's a really hard part about being a creator or generally working in new media, and I get that he's searching for validation - I do it all the time too, even though I get great emails and tweets from fans every day.

I think what makes people uneasy as far as Dan and validation goes, is that he often seems to yearn for a different audience. One that isn't overwhelmingly made up of young girls and women. He said during tour that he meeting 'us' made him realize that we're actually pretty diverse, but idk... that still won't get him the sort of acknowledgement that he craves. Dan once started his YouTube career because he wanted to belong to a group that he deemed cool at the time. But now that's all cringe and terrible, and he wants validation from the people he admires now. And I can definitely see why people feel that that is dismissive, because in the end we're all part of that past. Especially since it seems he has been actively excluding us ever since 'now onto the future' by just... not talking to us.

I'm v negative rn and contemplating my future in the phandom don't mind me. Has nothing to do with Dan not uploading today btw.

It’s cool that Dan wants a different kind of audience and all that, but am I the only one who think that he has sort of build this unrealistic fantastic idea about what a more intelligent and diverse audience would do?

It seems nice at first glance, but a more mature and intelligent audience wouldn’t really put up with some of Dan’s bullshit. They wouldn’t stuck around for months without content and would just watch another Youtuber who is probably smarter and uploads more regular content.

They would even find faults on his opinions and ideologies and confront him for it. And we all know Dan didn’t really respond well to criticism and take everything quite personally. I’m not underestimating Dan’s intelligence. He’s obviously really smart at a lot of things. It’s just that he never get a formal education to talk about something more serious like philosophy and stuff. I appreciate him sharing his opinions and I totally think he’s a great guy for wanting to spread good messages. It’s just that sometimes I get the impression that he just read some things on the internet and really take it. I’m not saying the internet can’t be credible, but... yeah.

I mean, I know the Phandom has its crazy and worst moments too that are totally not okay, I’m not trying to gloss over it. But they would still wait for almost a year without content and still coddle him.

So yeah, I know this sounds bitter. Sorry, I just suddenly vomit all these words. But this is just what I’m feeling right now.

I think this is a good point, if Dan's trying to go for a more mature and intellectual audience (IF), which I guess is a different type of condescension than I'm used to seeing from Dan; I feel like in the past we've had more evidence that he was trying to cater to edgelord bros, but it's been a while, and as he gets more openly queer, it seems to me less like he's concerned with winning over straight guys. I think maybe the kind of pseudointellectual videos he's posted might be better received by the edgelord bros than by the "mature and intelligent" crowd, but I'm not sure if he has the self-awareness re: those vids to predict that? Certainly the no-content doesn't go over great with probably anyone, but also I could be wrong, but I think there are people who don't upload much and manage to keep an intellectual audience? I can't think of a Youtube example (I'm not so intellectual in my watching these days, I guess) but Mike Rugnetta's podcast comes to mind and I guess I don't actually know if it retains an intellectual audience or if I just listen to it and think it should so ignore me? I think probably a big thing is just that we're a fandom and I don't know that the audiences of more Intellectual creators function in an equivalent way, so where Mike Rugnetta fans might be like, man, we haven't gotten anything from him in a long time, they then kinda forget about it until there's something new. And in the phandom, there's a bigger impact on people's lives, for better and worse.

alittledizzy wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:49 am Has Dan explicitly said that he wants to make academic level philosophy videos? Or is Dan's intelligence being roasted right now based on a purely fan projected theory that people made and then got angry about? It feels to me like the kind of videos Dan's tried to make, while still more than open to criticism about being fake-deep, have been fairly exclusively based around his own perspectives and his own musings on his own life.

Right? Dan posting about ContraPoints video in no way translates to Dan intending the make videos like ContraPoints does, not any more than those of us who discussed her video here intend to start making videos like she does. We can all appreciate other people's artistry and relate to the points they make without intending to become like them. Dan's need for validation from men specifically also isn't something he's invoked today or even recently. He posted about feeling validated by ContraPoints video and ContraPoints is a woman.

plinthofmylife wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:30 pm Gotta say that IDB was pretty on-point this time.

i feel so honoured even though in reality i didn't actually contribute much lol
anyway, that was fun i just wanted to know what others thought of that specific thing because it was a vulnerable spot for me that left me a little confused on how to feel. Thanks to everyone that replied! Hope you watch more of contra! (side note I love that dan likes her content and supports it, it's straight up art imo) (political art, all art is i suppose)

i can't quite deal with others' feelings about dan rn because i think i have enough of my own. not bad ones, i think i've worked through any bitterness i might have had for it, and i'm ready to move on, yeet.
bye bye everybody