IDB

blueapple_x wrote:

kuensukki wrote:Anyway, something that always bothers me about these sexuality discussions is they are always posed In a way to show dan as straight. How about Phil? He had the same coming out as dan and though he was less agressive about phan no one, here or the anti-phan website jump to call him straight. It's an interesting dynamic that he represents half of phan and his sexuality is never brought up? We just assume he's bisexual and never fight to the death that he is straight (like many do for Dan). Is it that we don't care about his sexuality because it t doesn't matter or is it that Dan has some supporters (with subjective motives) who will see him as straight no matter what he does?

I think the simplest answer to your inquiry would be that Dan gives us more to work with/debate about. Phil came out as bi and never explicitly addressed his sexuality after that time period. Dan came out as bi as well, but he implied he was attention seeking, explicitly said he's not gay/doesn't get aroused by the idea of colliding penises, and now he's back to expressing attraction towards males. Phil has also made some comments (eg. hinting at watching gay porn, hinting at watching Free! for the hot guys) but that doesn't negate the fact that I personally think (and I'm sure others will agree) that Dan gives us more to debate/analyze and that's why he's typically the focus of sexuality discussions.

I understand that but its an interesting thing to consider. They both stated they are bisexual, both used heteronormative "girlfriend, wife" nouns to describe their partner, then went on to avoid addressing sexuality for another couple of years. Maybe Phil took the quiet approach while Dan took the gay denial head-on but even then why is it so hard from some to accept Dan's bisexuality and they do Phil's? I don't actually think these boys are anywhere near straight but it bothers me how even when Dan tries to hint at bisexuality or male attraction, some won't accept it and instead call it a joke or a need for attention because Dan can't be bisexual without being an attention-whore

Anyway I feel like we have moved on after all the negative/biphobic comments made, Houseplants

Also loving the eye reflection debate! I don't know if it's a joke or you guys are serious but just as "Dan Lester" I cannot unsee it

So apparently some people haven't seen this video, don't know if it is in the DD but.
Young Dan is young

youtube commenter wrote:the date was December 28, 2006

A small distraction before that video Dan should totally be uploading right at this moment.

Anonymousse wrote:So apparently some people haven't seen this video, don't know if it is in the DD but.

Young Dan is young

youtube commenter wrote:the date was December 28, 2006

A small distraction before that video Dan should totally be uploading right at this moment.

I love his voice in this. It's adorable, I wish we had more of these older videos like we do with Phil.

2old4thisshite wrote: This is the best way I can explain my position - To me, as a straight woman, bisexuality equals two sexualities: gay and hetro. If a man tells me he's not gay then I assume he's straight. If he says he's not gay but he's actually bi, then, to me, he's a liar and an ass.

I know we've probably moved on from this, but I'm catching up don't bully me.
I just really want to know what the actual hell this is supposed to mean? I've been sitting here trying to make sense of it and I just can't.

bedhead91 wrote:

phamnotof wrote:
And I guess for me, this way is preferable even as far as experiencing them as celebrities goes, I would just not be comfortable being a fan of someone who I could think of in terms of 'just like me', but that's personal preference and a desire for boundaries. Like I honestly prefer this, I prefer a good production value and a firmly set wall, I've got poorly edited and badly lit friends who make terrible jokes IRL. I like that they're a business now, because I am fascinated by personas, I think they're an artform, good branding is like porn to me, the gap between persona and private citizens keeps me up at night - this is what I like. I like storytelling and entertainment and I don't find it manipulative, fanservice to me is their job, serve me up, bro, just do it in a way that I can enjoy, sell yourself well or then I'll be unhappy. I need you to be fictional to a degree, or else I won't be able to project my everything onto you. But again, this is preference.

I don't have time now to respond to this properly but I find it interesting how we have such different perspectives on this. Like angrymob said, I didn't get into YouTube for high production value or a firmly set wall, I got into it precisely because it was different from the other types of media I was already consuming. It wasn't polished, it was self-produced, it was made by people like me...which was fun and different. It's strange that even now, I wouldn't exactly label myself as a ''fan'' of or even think of them as celebrities, even though they technically are. I've accepted how YouTube has changed over the years gradually but begrudgingly, like a crotchety grandmother who has been forced by her children to learn how to use a computer.

I missed this comment originally, but phamnotof has summed a lot of things about my view that I've never been able to explain before. I'd known people made YT videos since 2006, but never got into them, so when I discovered in 2013 that "people like me*" had established these persona-fied versions of themselves and turned it into a self-propelled entertainment career as mini-celebrities - that was what drew me in. That's not something you see so directly in any other media. And then you get to go back and follow their journey to arriving at that point, watch them navigate the minefield that is the internet, mix in a few bits of their "real" selves that still leak through, stir in a dash of the hints and mysteries that lead to 50 pages of forum discussion... it's a fascinating recipe that's got me hooked for a while.

* I don't actually want them to be just like me, I'm incredibly boring.

I do think their videos are getting to be more and more over-the-top caricatures, and it can be frustrating at times, so I can only imagine how tiring it must be if you were in from the beginning as a "real people" fan. Even the fact that there's opportunity for a such a huge difference in perspective is pretty interesting in itself though.

Anonymousse wrote:So apparently some people haven't seen this video, don't know if it is in the DD but.

Young Dan is young

youtube commenter wrote:the date was December 28, 2006

A small distraction before that video Dan should totally be uploading right at this moment.

Is 2006 correct? Has Dan's voice not changed since he was 14 (?) I always find it funny whenever people comment in a particular video if Dan's voice is deep or "sexy", attraction to voices is subjective but Dan has a very, very soft voice and it's funny how little his voice has changed

Regarding:

2old4thisshite wrote: This is the best way I can explain my position - To me, as a straight woman, bisexuality equals two sexualities: gay and hetro. If a man tells me he's not gay then I assume he's straight. If he says he's not gay but he's actually bi, then, to me, he's a liar and an ass.

I have little to add to the subject which hasn't been said already but this person is very obviously fishing for drama, evidently that there has been no response since, seems more a troll than anything else

Jeweul wrote:

Anonymousse wrote:So apparently some people haven't seen this video, don't know if it is in the DD but.

Young Dan is young

youtube commenter wrote:the date was December 28, 2006

A small distraction before that video Dan should totally be uploading right at this moment.

I love his voice in this. It's adorable, I wish we had more of these older videos like we do with Phil.

There are a lot of older videos of Phil, he just privated most of them.

newslang wrote:

Jeweul wrote:

Anonymousse wrote:So apparently some people haven't seen this video, don't know if it is in the DD but.

Young Dan is young

youtube commenter wrote:the date was December 28, 2006

A small distraction before that video Dan should totally be uploading right at this moment.

I love his voice in this. It's adorable, I wish we had more of these older videos like we do with Phil.

There are a lot of older videos of Phil, he just privated most of them.

Yeah I've seen most of Phil's really old stuff on the DD, I'm mostly just interested in seeing Dan's older stuff. It's cool to see, like people said, how similar his voice is now to when he was 14.

Guys.
As I clicked on this vid Anonymousse linked, I clicked a bit around and found this:



What the hell, why did he pull down his pants at 1:00 ?! #random

hollyphan wrote:Guys.
As I clicked on this vid Anonymousse linked, I clicked a bit around and found this:



What the hell, why did he pull down his pants at 1:00 ?! #random

lol this video seems like a perfect example of what phamnotof was referring to the other day as dan's "unhappy slutty problematic self."
Seems to me like he pulled his pants down as a distraction tactic/apology to viewers since he didn't upload his vid by the day he said he would (lol nothing has changed). although it seems kind of tongue-in-cheek, the same way the sexy endscreen dance was very obviously suggestive (and def cringey), but self-aware and kind of jokingly so. in a "i know youtubers/online celebs use their bodies/sexual appeal to their advantage and lol i'm doing it too because i know most of you lust after me but it's ironic and funny because i'm self-aware right? lol" kind of way.
the video is certainly problematic though (considering the main content of it is a rape-joke in skit form...)
his self-perception is interesting. he obviously acknowledges his body as appealing to his viewers, since he tugs his pants down coyly to distract them. it's something he commodifies on his own, and it seems like he can perceive as objectively attractive. he later in the vid uses his nakedbooths as a selling point to try and get subscribers to come subscribe to his dailybooth. that all connotes a great deal of confidence in his naked body. (or somebody seeking validation? but for some reason i don't view it as that..)
but, in the same video, he describes his face as "disgusting" and seems unhappy about his viewers getting a more HQ look at his face. interesting. humans are complex.
(sorry for the analysis, dan. god if i were him i would HATE that people are still analyzing the cringeworthy actions of my teenage years.)

ALSO bless all you well-spoken souls for articulating everything i could ever have to say about the bisexuality debate. you all nailed it.

chloek88 wrote:

hollyphan wrote:Guys.
As I clicked on this vid Anonymousse linked, I clicked a bit around and found this:



What the hell, why did he pull down his pants at 1:00 ?! #random

lol this video seems like a perfect example of what phamnotof was referring to the other day as dan's "unhappy slutty problematic self."

Seems to me like he pulled his pants down as a distraction tactic/apology to viewers since he didn't upload his vid by the day he said he would (lol nothing has changed). although it seems kind of tongue-in-cheek, the same way the sexy endscreen dance was very obviously suggestive (and def cringey), but self-aware and kind of jokingly so. in a "i know youtubers/online celebs use their bodies/sexual appeal to their advantage and lol i'm doing it too because i know most of you lust after me but it's ironic and funny because i'm self-aware right? lol" kind of way.
the video is certainly problematic though (considering the main content of it is a rape-joke in skit form...)
his self-perception is interesting. he obviously acknowledges his body as appealing to his viewers, since he tugs his pants down coyly to distract them. it's something he commodifies on his own, and it seems like he can perceive as objectively attractive. he later in the vid uses his nakedbooths as a selling point to try and get subscribers to come subscribe to his dailybooth. that all connotes a great deal of confidence in his naked body. (or somebody seeking validation? but for some reason i don't view it as that..)
but, in the same video, he describes his face as "disgusting" and seems unhappy about his viewers getting a more HQ look at his face. interesting. humans are complex.
(sorry for the analysis, dan. god if i were him i would HATE that people are still analyzing the cringeworthy actions of my teenage years.)

ALSO bless all you well-spoken souls for articulating everything i could ever have to say about the bisexuality debate. you all nailed it.

I fully agree with all of this. But the best thing about being able to view Dan's older stuff in retrospect is realizing how problematic his humor was (and no, it being funny/normal at the time doesn't make it better) and how much better he is now at understanding humor in general and that there are ways to make people laugh that don't involve making light of horrible things. Dan's humor is still dark when he wants to be dark, it's just not typically offensive and doesn't belittle anyone else's struggle or trauma.

I'm proud of Dan for coming so far in terms of self-awareness both with his humor and how it impacts other people, and in terms of his own self-confidence/self-respect. I'm sure Dan still has lots of insecurities and vulnerabilities but it's seems obvious that as he grew up he realized that trying to be sexy for the camera wasn't really fixing any of his insecurities and began dealing with them in other ways.

chloek88 wrote:

hollyphan wrote:Guys.
As I clicked on this vid Anonymousse linked, I clicked a bit around and found this:



What the hell, why did he pull down his pants at 1:00 ?! #random

lol this video seems like a perfect example of what phamnotof was referring to the other day as dan's "unhappy slutty problematic self."
Seems to me like he pulled his pants down as a distraction tactic/apology to viewers since he didn't upload his vid by the day he said he would (lol nothing has changed). although it seems kind of tongue-in-cheek, the same way the sexy endscreen dance was very obviously suggestive (and def cringey), but self-aware and kind of jokingly so. in a "i know youtubers/online celebs use their bodies/sexual appeal to their advantage and lol i'm doing it too because i know most of you lust after me but it's ironic and funny because i'm self-aware right? lol" kind of way.
the video is certainly problematic though (considering the main content of it is a rape-joke in skit form...)
his self-perception is interesting. he obviously acknowledges his body as appealing to his viewers, since he tugs his pants down coyly to distract them. it's something he commodifies on his own, and it seems like he can perceive as objectively attractive. he later in the vid uses his nakedbooths as a selling point to try and get subscribers to come subscribe to his dailybooth. that all connotes a great deal of confidence in his naked body. (or somebody seeking validation? but for some reason i don't view it as that..)
but, in the same video, he describes his face as "disgusting" and seems unhappy about his viewers getting a more HQ look at his face. interesting. humans are complex.
(sorry for the analysis, dan. god if i were him i would HATE that people are still analyzing the cringeworthy actions of my teenage years.)

ALSO bless all you well-spoken souls for articulating everything i could ever have to say about the bisexuality debate. you all nailed it.

I have to disagree, because I do definitely feel like he was seeking validation from others. He knew that other people found him attractive, even though he didn't particularly find himself attractive, and ate up the praise and attention he got when he posted half-naked pictures of himself. (I'm not judging, I wasn't much better as a teenager.) That reminds me of an old tweet I saw of his that made me sad, where he said something along the lines of ''I bet if I was unattractive no one would give a crap about my existence.''

Both are guilty those days of "showing skin" for views, but I am more nonchalant when it comes to Phil mainly because of the age factor. Dan was barely legal and I guess it makes me feel creepy and uneasy

hollyphan wrote:What the hell, why did he pull down his pants at 1:00 ?! #random

I've seen this 100 times and I never noticed him pulling down his pants oh my fudging god

I agree that he's probably trying to "distract" his viewers especially with the voice he's using when he's talking about the tree falling on the tracks idk it sounds weirdly seductive idk how to explain it does anyone get me?

Dan would totally hate us rn for even watching this

am I too late to put my hands up? (please refer to previous thread lol)?

sweetmm wrote:Both are guilty those days of "showing skin" for views, but I am more nonchalant when it comes to Phil mainly because of the age factor. Dan was barely legal and I guess it makes me feel creepy and uneasy

I don't know i feel like young people make that kind of mistakes a lot especially for those who struggling with low self esteem.

It's not a matter of the artists just being dicks and not wanting it. It's always touching to get gifts. It's a spacial thing. When you've got 1000 fans, reading every letter and keeping every customized doll is easy and touching and awesome.
When you've got 1million (or 5million), it's a different story completely.
Remember that they used to do mail openings on camera. Now they don't even have a POBox anymore because of the volume.
If they don't have time to do a live show, they certainly don't have time to sit and read a 10 page letter from Becky about how she criez evritime.
I have been in a position where I have accepted gifts from fans on behalf of bands (due to the bands not doing m&gs, not being around, etc). Letters, toys, artwork, really fancy nice gifts, etc.
Honestly, when I brought it to them, they've kept the cool stuff (really nice artwork, fancy gifts, special letters) and given away or tossed the rest. Getting a barbie doll terribly painted to look like you is touching a couple times. Not 500 times. I have even seen certain bands fill a large moving box with artwork and letters to ship, but only one box worth. Hand selected stuff.
My roommate's band has just over 4million likes on FB. Our house holds a mantle's worth of cool creepy dolls that fans have given him over the years, and a couple of neat knickknacks like etched drinking glasses and shot glasses, clothes, some really special paintings...but a storage unit's worth of letters and weird glitter and crayon drawings? Nope, sorry.

Imagine that you're born on...let's say Halloween. And every year on your birthday, your mom, your dad, your aunts, your grandparents, literally everyone in your family, gives you a bunch of like, halloween stickers and cheap plastic pumpkins and stuff. Silly little thematic stuff. The first couple of times you're like "haha awww, this is cute." But then let's say literally everyone in your family keeps giving you this cheap silly crap. The same cheap silly crap. Every year. For your entire life. For like 20-30 years. Do you keep the halloween stickers and plastic pumpkins, or do you start thanking your family for the gifts, and then quietly putting them in the bin?

For what it's worth, when I met them I totally gave them a letter.


Holy hell this got long. I am so, so sorry.

Offtopic:

I just saw buzzfeed post the cube test that Phil and Alex Day did back in 2012

Trigger Warning :

Alex Day

And it's actually very interesting. If you don't wanna watch Alex's video I can elaborate a little for you.

Phil's answer - Giant ice cube, melting because of the sun and storm on top of it, a wooden ladder leaning against the cube and melting into the cube, a brown stallion horse climbing up the ladder but couldn't, it want to stand on top of the cube and cool off, and it doesn't like the storm, some flowers are under the cube surrounding it.

So according to this test, it's interesting that we can see the friendship and the lover is very much mixed together, which to me is a very clear indication to his relationship with Dan (if phan is real and the test is accurate) Dan is the unpredictable, wild long term lover that trying to climb up his friendship ladder to be on top of him. (pun not intended) And the fact it was 2012, the storm is probably means the many challenge he was facing back then - moving, new job, and the phandom, the pressuring was getting to him a lot (the cube is melting because of the storm) and when he was asked about the storm the first thing he said was "the horse won't like it". And also two detail, the first is the horse tying to climb on top of the ice cube to cool off, and the ladder melting into the cube.

Can we interrupted as Phil, who always labels Dan as his biffle, thinking that their friendship is very very close to his heart, didn't want Dan to transform to his lover, or publicly come out as his lover; while Dan, the horse, so eagerly wanted to suppress this idea and be the one who make decision in this situation and they were having a power struggle?

cora808 wrote:
For what it's worth, when I met them I totally gave them a letter.


Holy hell this got long. I am so, so sorry.

Or short answer, be rich and buy them a house. nope

akui, thanks for that nice write-up (I'm never giving alex day another view). All i can add is some ridiculously erroneously psychoanalysis; the ladder melting into the cube means phil tends to get into codependent relationships with his friends.

also, lol @ my results

greatnessflicker wrote:akui, thanks for that nice write-up (I'm never giving alex day another view). All i can add is some ridiculously erroneously psychoanalysis; the ladder melting into the cube means phil tends to get into codependent relationships with his friends.

No worries m8

Yes, codependency, yes, very.

The closer the ladder to the cube means the closer you friends to you, and if the ladder is literally inside the cube, well then... Dan is inside you, Phil That's could mean a codependent relationship.

That’s a very interesting analyzes of Phil akui, which I really enjoyed.

Also I'm just sitting over here waiting for Dan's video.

alittledizzy wrote: But the best thing about being able to view Dan's older stuff in retrospect is realizing how problematic his humor was (and no, it being funny/normal at the time doesn't make it better) and how much better he is now at understanding humor in general and that there are ways to make people laugh that don't involve making light of horrible things. Dan's humor is still dark when he wants to be dark, it's just not typically offensive and doesn't belittle anyone else's struggle or trauma.

I'm proud of Dan for coming so far in terms of self-awareness both with his humor and how it impacts other people, and in terms of his own self-confidence/self-respect. I'm sure Dan still has lots of insecurities and vulnerabilities but it's seems obvious that as he grew up he realized that trying to be sexy for the camera wasn't really fixing any of his insecurities and began dealing with them in other ways.

newslang wrote: I have to disagree, because I do definitely feel like he was seeking validation from others. He knew that other people found him attractive, even though he didn't particularly find himself attractive, and ate up the praise and attention he got when he posted half-naked pictures of himself.

could not agree more that seeing dan grow so beautifully from the time that video is filmed to present day is delightful. he has definitely learned how to be comedic and dark without being offensive or insensitive. he's also learned how to derive self-worth from his creative content, thoughtfulness, and characteristics, rather than his physical appearance. his character development is one of my favorite things about him and one of the only reasons i'm interested in any of his content pre-2014ish.
seeing him grow, learn from his own mistakes, and continue to consciously better himself makes me believe him when he says he doesn't have a mean/malicious bone in his body, that his role model is pooh bear, and he does his best to be a genuinely good person and be nice to others.
i also think he was very reflective and introspective back then, as he is now, but at the time his reflections revolved more around himself and his own world, whereas now he reflects on things like morality and ethics on a much larger scale and can step outside of himself quite often. tis admirable. g'job dan (i can literally hear danphil333's eye roll at this entire post )

Hmm....interesting psychoanalysis indeed.

My results were...weirdly accurate.

Off to watch the new video.