Dan & Phil Part 19: Banging on the breakfast bar

[coffee pig]

I also have a strong opinion about Drew's post about fandom culture. I understand where he is coming from, but I disagree. The thing is, a lot of the kids who dedicate all their social media to a certain fandom are usually teenagers who are insecure/lonely/dealing with mental illness and use heavy involvement in a fandom as a coping mechanism. I don't see how that's unhealthy, I see that as a much better alternative to harmful coping mechanisms. Before social media even existed there were teenagers who dedicated their entire existence to being a fan of the Smiths or the Beatles or whatever thing was popular in that specific time period. It's nothing new.

[hunnyftw]

Seems I watched a different video to most of you guys last night and this morning.

Well, seems I've read a different forum to you From what I've seen the vote seems to be 50/50 right now, with some people loving the video (look at the first reactions on pages 4 and 5) and some people, not a clear majority at all, being bored by it (more recent posts). Personally I'm in the camp that loved it but I feel it's too late to get into more details as people have already mentioned most if not all of my favourite moments

fancybum, thanks for the read. I don't know anything about this guy but I like the way his brain works and his ability to express his doubts respectfully. That was certainly an interesting text and it forced me to think, which is always a good thing in my book. Even if I can't fully agree with his "speculation is disturbing" point. I feel that a little bit of speculation can be done respectfully as long as it stops at some point. Or, and this thought makes me extremely uncomfortable, maybe deep down I do agree with him but I don't want to fully admit it because that would mean I'm part of the problem
For now, mind: boggled. I'll come back here with a proper opinion if I manage to form one.

[fancybum]

Never heard of him at all! I just googled him and It still do not know who he is.

Guys he's just a YTer, but he's very funny and real imo:

Choice quote: "men are fucking psychopaths"


Pizza and anxiety struggle, iconic:

Being upfront about recent mental health struggles:

Anyway, I think there's a difference between speculation and getting full-on Beautiful Mind with every moment of somebody's public life like the phandom does. Speculating about Dodie and Chris relationships, as mentioned above, is not the same as they've been open with their sexuality. What are people speculating about there? The actual people they could date? I'm out of that loop.
D&P for the last few years Don't Discuss Their Sexualities. Relationship talk is off the table. People actively seek out 'proof' and slip-ups and I don't know, I think I'm just having a bad morning, but is there not an obvious difference? No? I'll just go sit in the corner.

[Winston]

I'm not putting this in off-topic or the other YTers thread because... awkward... I know all fandoms have some aspect of this intrusiveness when it comes to the lives of the people they gather around (ok, maybe not all), but who specifically could he be talking about? What brought this up in his mind and bothered him enough to put it on tumblr? I don't think he could be talking about himself because, for anybody who doesn't follow him, he's fairly open about his sexuality ("straight, but open") and the possibility of him being into guys. He's also quite open about how single he is.
He also posted this:

So maybe he was just focusing on one aspect of a larger rumination on fandom culture in general. I'm not really involved in other 'fandoms' to this extent, though I'm aware of the shipping of some musicians, and Drew is into music, so maybe that's what he's thinking of... But really?? With all the Dan/Phil avatars in his Twitter replies (and literally everywhere else on the internet) I can only connect the dots back to them.

Anyway, about his point. I can't disagree with it. Outing people is awful, that goes without saying, or it should. I guess we like to think it's a fine line between outing and simply satisfying our own harmless (to us) curiosity. We're not hounding them, we're not @ing them (well, some of us aren't ) with dumb intrusive shit. We think it's all totally fine because we keep the info amongst ourselves as if all of these discussions don't happen in completely public and accessible spaces online where anybody, including them, can see. And it's a joke anyway! We're joking, we love them and support them, so it's all fine anyway, right? Everything is fine because it comes from a good place, right? I'm part of the problem, and it's a weird place to be, I can't even justify it. 'Waah I wanna know!' just isn't good enough.
Anyway, shout out to Drew for my minor breakdown this lovely AM. Yay.

(edit - Drew Monson's tumblr for people who don't even know who the hell I'm talking about lol whoops)

I definitely think that Drew is talking about YouTube culture in general here and not just . Obviously this heavily applies to them because they are so popular, but it's pretty common to see people with Dodie or Chris's picture as their Twitter profile picture and to speculate about YouTuber's sexualities. I don't know how involved y'all are with YouTube fandom in general but guessing who isn't straight in the YouTube community is a pastime for some people. People did the same ''guessing game'' thing for years with Shane, who Drew is close friends with.
I admit to being a little guilty of this, but like other people have already said I don't think that there's anything harmful in it. Especially because it's mostly speculation by LGBT people who are wondering if people are like them or nah, there's no malicious intent behind it.

I agree. I don't think it was aimed at deppy but at youtube culture in general. I like Drew. I actually knew of him and watched him before the boys. Perhaps some of his own fans were going a little overboard on the shipping/stalking. He says he is straight and I believe he is. He also says he is open too. The way he acts with Shane and others us flirty, so some people could take their interest too far.

[internetakeover]

Never heard of him at all! I just googled him and It still do not know who he is.

Guys he's just a YTer, but he's very funny and real imo:

Choice quote: "men are fucking psychopaths"


Pizza and anxiety struggle, iconic:

Being upfront about recent mental health struggles:

Anyway, I think there's a difference between speculation and getting full-on Beautiful Mind with every moment of somebody's public life like the phandom does. Speculating about Dodie and Chris relationships, as mentioned above, is not the same as they've been open with their sexuality. What are people speculating about there? The actual people they could date? I'm out of that loop.
D&P for the last few years Don't Discuss Their Sexualities. Relationship talk is off the table. People actively seek out 'proof' and slip-ups and I don't know, I think I'm just having a bad morning, but is there not an obvious difference? No? I'll just go sit in the corner.

I'm loving this discussion! I definitely do feel the difference there, but personally draw the line on speculation being okay if it's about information they've chosen to publicly share, and therefore that's still okay in my mind? For me intent does make a bit difference here, which I tend not to say. It's often people looking for representation, and if speculation is based off info which they've shared and which is easily accessible for anyone to see and draw their own conclusions from, and not shoved in their face in the form of invasive questions, I can't begrudge that.

Also I think I'd disagree that their sexualities are entirely off the table, which makes me feel more comfortable about discussing it. For Phil sexuality may be off the table, but Dan still talks about people he's attracted to, and actively shares info that can be speculated off. re: relationships I definitely see your point, but equally they have been referencing the phan ship a little more recently, and if they're going to reference it and capitalise on that part of the fandom, then I'm going to speculate based off that!

[spaceguitar]

I see a lot of truth in both of his posts. When he was talking about the difference and non difference between being a fan of the content a creator makes and the creator themself, I completely see the trouble. The line is just so blurred between those things especially in the internet age.
Then he talks about the era of twitter fans. I think that I do agree with him about that. Its not just not wanting to use your face on the internet, so you use your idol's instead; its a specific mindset. (Of course not everyone is in this mindset) You just see a lot of people basing their entire self worth around D+P, and it does feel very unhealthy. Its just the effect that it has in general of having bunch of people with different names on the internet who all have icons of Dan's face. It just generally sends a message that these people and their identity on the internet is as fans. They are lesser than the creator. Of course it is a complicated issue, but i get the reaction that Drew had.

[coffee pig]

Never heard of him at all! I just googled him and It still do not know who he is.

Guys he's just a YTer, but he's very funny and real imo:

Choice quote: "men are fucking psychopaths"


Pizza and anxiety struggle, iconic:

Being upfront about recent mental health struggles:

Anyway, I think there's a difference between speculation and getting full-on Beautiful Mind with every moment of somebody's public life like the phandom does. Speculating about Dodie and Chris relationships, as mentioned above, is not the same as they've been open with their sexuality. What are people speculating about there? The actual people they could date? I'm out of that loop.
D&P for the last few years Don't Discuss Their Sexualities. Relationship talk is off the table. People actively seek out 'proof' and slip-ups and I don't know, I think I'm just having a bad morning, but is there not an obvious difference? No? I'll just go sit in the corner.

I'm not talking about Chris and Dodie specifically here but about speculation about YouTubers like Connor Franta, before he came out, and like Winston said, there was always a lot of gossip about Shane and Drew secretly dating and people heavily doubting Drew's heterosexuality. I also think that the Phandom can definitely be a bit much at times with their tinhatting and Reading Too Much Into Things but this would be admitting that I too, am a part of the problem and I'm not quite ready to stop being nosy stalking trash just yet. But you're not wrong.

[eevee]

I didn't even mean that he fell down the rabbit hole and needed to Make A Statement after finding out anything. Every YTer on the planet knows that D&P are 'shipped' hardcore and can maybe tell with even a passing glance that they don't really share their private lives, and like the rest of us, it could make them wonder.

I don't think he needs to have any 'insider info' to feel the way he does, or say what he said, that's not what I was intending. (Although if Shane knows or suspects anything, it's possible they've discussed it).

I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, I was just stating my opinion that Drew must have looked into D&P to come to the conclusion that they're dating and closeted. That's my opinion. I don't see that as a negative thing to say about Drew tbh I just meant it as what I perceived to be likely.

[Diyes_Celine]

Regarding the Drew Tumblr post. I think he was talking about fandoms in general but if he was referring to someone, it is probably not but Scott and Mitch.

They are the 2/5 of Pentatonix who have their own yt channel, Superfruit. Some ship Drew with Mitch coz they are really close and flirty. They even kissed on a video. But most fans ship Scott and Mitch even when they were both in a relationship with other people. Some shippers even attack Scott's and Mitch's (ex) bf. It seems that Scomiche shippers intensified again coz it's they are now both single and they again share a house. They previously lived with 4 other guys including Scott's bf. Scott and Mitch are extra flirty nowadays but they will always say that are not together coz they're sisters.

[fancybum]

I'm not talking about Chris and Dodie specifically here but about speculation about YouTubers like Connor Franta, before he came out, and like Winston said, there was always a lot of gossip about Shane and Drew secretly dating and people heavily doubting Drew's heterosexuality. I also think that the Phandom can definitely be a bit much at times with their tinhatting and Reading Too Much Into Things but this would be admitting that I too, am a part of the problem and I'm not quite ready to stop being nosy stalking trash just yet. But you're not wrong.

Yeah sorry I totally misread your post that mentioned them, but I see what you meant now. I'm not ready to stop either, but I'm having uncomfortable thoughts about it sigh. If they could post an Undertale or something and distract us all with something shiny soon, I certainly wouldn't complain.

I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, I was just stating my opinion that Drew must have looked into D&P to come to the conclusion that they're dating and closeted. That's my opinion. I don't see that as a negative thing to say about Drew tbh I just meant it as what I perceived to be likely.

No worries! Just wanted to clarify where I was coming from, but your take is also possible.

Regarding the Drew Tumblr post. I think he was talking about fandoms in general but if he was referring to someone, it is probably not but Scott and Mitch.

They are the 2/5 of Pentatonix who have their own yt channel, Superfruit. Some ship Drew with Mitch coz they are really close and flirty. They even kissed on a video. But most fans ship Scott and Mitch even when they were both in a relationship with other people. Some shippers even attack Scott's and Mitch's (ex) bf. It seems that Scomiche shippers intensified again coz it's they are now both single and they again share a house. They previously lived with 4 other guys including Scott's bf. Scott and Mitch are extra flirty nowadays but they will always say that are not together coz they're sisters.

But none of the three of them are closeted. It's one thing if he had just said 'speculating about peoples' private lives/relationships' and left it there, but he whipped out the C-word to take his point a little further. I suppose it could be somewhat about himself, but if anything he would be in the Questioning category (which again, he's been open about), not Closeted. Hmm, who knows. Regardless of who (if anybody) he specifically had in mind, the post is still painfully relevant to D&P and their viewers, so.

[eevee]

But none of the three of them are closeted. It's one thing if he had just said 'speculating about peoples' private lives/relationships' and left it there, but he whipped out the C-word to take his point a little further. I suppose it could be somewhat about himself, but if anything he would be in the Questioning category (which again, he's been open about), not Closeted. Hmm, who knows. Regardless of who (if anybody) he specifically had in mind, the post is still painfully relevant to D&P and their viewers, so.

It seems suspiciously relevant to to me

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

[bear]

But none of the three of them are closeted. It's one thing if he had just said 'speculating about peoples' private lives/relationships' and left it there, but he whipped out the C-word to take his point a little further. I suppose it could be somewhat about himself, but if anything he would be in the Questioning category (which again, he's been open about), not Closeted. Hmm, who knows. Regardless of who (if anybody) he specifically had in mind, the post is still painfully relevant to D&P and their viewers, so.

I agree

It seems suspiciously relevant to to me

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

oh god. um. well.

[DryCereal]

There’s the “physical commemorative” alluded to then!

[Kathrynxjane]

Well what surprise.... We was all expecting it.

November 3rd.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Outside-Amazin ... 1785035223

Lets see how long before the rest of the phandom know

[time-will-tell]

But none of the three of them are closeted. It's one thing if he had just said 'speculating about peoples' private lives/relationships' and left it there, but he whipped out the C-word to take his point a little further. I suppose it could be somewhat about himself, but if anything he would be in the Questioning category (which again, he's been open about), not Closeted. Hmm, who knows. Regardless of who (if anybody) he specifically had in mind, the post is still painfully relevant to D&P and their viewers, so.

I agree

It seems suspiciously relevant to to me

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

oh god. um. well.

I'm going to try contact Amazon to see if it was the publishers who actually posted this.. It seems very... Odd to say the least. How many months in advance do you have to anounce a book??

[SquishPhan]

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

I'm happy about this, but I am a big book lover and

[Kathrynxjane]

But none of the three of them are closeted. It's one thing if he had just said 'speculating about peoples' private lives/relationships' and left it there, but he whipped out the C-word to take his point a little further. I suppose it could be somewhat about himself, but if anything he would be in the Questioning category (which again, he's been open about), not Closeted. Hmm, who knows. Regardless of who (if anybody) he specifically had in mind, the post is still painfully relevant to D&P and their viewers, so.

I agree

It seems suspiciously relevant to to me

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

oh god. um. well.

I'm going to try contact Amazon to see if it was the publishers who actually posted this.. It seems very... Odd to say the least. How many months in advance do you have to anounce a book??

I know a lot of Youtuber books that have been put on amazon before they are announced. I swear Alfies "book" was and Louise's Diary.

[Poe]

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

Pls not another tour after this

Anyway now let's just sit back and enjoy the rapidly incoming shitstorm

[internetakeover]

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

A distraction for fancybum!

Yeah, idk how I feel about this. I'm sure it'll be great and interesting and they will/have put tonnes of effort into it (and therefore not into their actual YT channels again), but... they said the first book was to be an entire encapsulation of them/their internet presence/community, so what excuse do they have for this one? I'm not bothered by a second book really - get that money while you can boys! - but idk, something about how much they hyped up the first, only to have it not be so unique and special just bugs me, even though it's clearly totally different. Maybe I'm being overly cynical wondering if they were always on the seemingly typical YTer two book deal - it wouldn't be surprising if they were actively pursued to do another book - but idk. We'll see how they present it, I guess!

I bet that's what Dan's new video will be about, also.

edit: I think that I'm grumpy b/c I dislike fandom drama/fighting (though it's totally fair to react in whatever way to big news!), and have therefore ended up participating in the potential backlash. Well done me!

[DryCereal]

I like the idea, ngl i was disappointed there wasn’t going to be anything not-digital for the tour, so this makes up for it, providing it isn’t just us-tour centric.

[jess]

I missed out on some good conversations. Pointless to post now since the shitstorm is about the happen, so brief thoughts:

For me, Phil's video was very disconnected & it just didn't flow well since the ideas were pretty disconnected to me. Here's a bird story about when I got back, here's a houseplant update, & now here's a mini haul featuring Dan.

Thanks for posting Drew's tumblr post's, fancybum. I always think it is interesting when people at any level of celebrity or even infamy start to question fan culture because there are a lot of issues that can arise from it. I don't 100% agree with all of Drew's points, but I appreciate that he's attempting some fan culture discourse because I think the world needs more analysis of the culture since it really does have a tight grip on people these days.

I have no thoughts on this book yet since we really know nothing. I did find it suspicious that Phil was mentioning "going outside" more & seemed to get dragged into that Dan branding. Mystery solved.

Also, the categories are hilarious to me:

Books > Biography > Theatre & Performance Art
Books > Humour
Books > Society, Politics & Philosophy > Social Sciences > Cultural Studies

[Winston]

Regarding the Drew Tumblr post. I think he was talking about fandoms in general but if he was referring to someone, it is probably not but Scott and Mitch.

They are the 2/5 of Pentatonix who have their own yt channel, Superfruit. Some ship Drew with Mitch coz they are really close and flirty. They even kissed on a video. But most fans ship Scott and Mitch even when they were both in a relationship with other people. Some shippers even attack Scott's and Mitch's (ex) bf. It seems that Scomiche shippers intensified again coz it's they are now both single and they again share a house. They previously lived with 4 other guys including Scott's bf. Scott and Mitch are extra flirty nowadays but they will always say that are not together coz they're sisters.

I agree it could also be aimed to Superfruit/ Drew and Mitch. The Superfruit fandom are pretty intense as well. (i can't see it personally, they very much seem just like besties and that is it. I just can not see any sexual chemistry between them.) But they are open with their sexuality. I could see it more towards/ involving Drew and Mitch, although I don't see that either. But that doesn't stop shipping. ( Also there are a lot of innocent (ignorant) people who think if a person is gay then they want anyone the same sex, like some kind of nondiscriminatory sex fiend or something, People of the LGBTQ+ community can be friends with each other, and not just want to bang all the freaking time...Sorry getting off track...*cough cough*)

The whole thing to me almost seems like He himself has noticed a problem with his own fans. Like they are getting a little too into something. He is friends with quite a few youtubers, some of whom not so long ago were closeted. (Connor, Joey, Shane...) Perhaps he is currently friends with someone else who is currently in the closet, and the shippers have glomed on to them.

Either way, I agree and disagree. Yes it is reprehensible to out people before they are ready (if ever). Speculating, and using things that they themselves have offered up is kind of something to be expected, and completely illogical to expect people not to use the information they are given. For people to go digging into nonpublic that is a different story, that is creepy. Which is why I am fairly sure his problem isn't with his own ships with Mitch or Drew since they have been openly jokey about it, and haven't calmed down on that front. I can't see it be about him in general, because he is so open, but I can see him getting upset if it's about a friend of his. And would then warrant a thought provoking blog post at least,


Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, had to write it on the sly at work. So can't edit, or reread.

[Diyes_Celine]

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

Pls not another tour after this

Anyway now let's just sit back and enjoy the rapidly incoming shitstorm

Ugh. Not a shit storm. How huge and how many cacti do we need to change the top or distract everyone. need to upload sooooo many videos for damage control.

They are really cashing in. I wonder when's their wedding that they need all the money.

[DryCereal]

Also, the categories are hilarious to me:

Books > Biography > Theatre & Performance Art
Books > Humour
Books > Society, Politics & Philosophy > Social Sciences > Cultural Studies

Well, the first two are certainly correct, (assuming of course, the book is about TATINOF!) Add in a section about their lives online and there's the third covered too.

[bear]

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

A distraction for fancybum!

Yeah, idk how I feel about this. I'm sure it'll be great and interesting and they will/have put tonnes of effort into it (and therefore not into their actual YT channels again), but... they said the first book was to be an entire encapsulation of them/their internet presence/community, so what excuse do they have for this one? I'm not bothered by a second book really - get that money while you can boys! - but idk, something about how much they hyped up the first, only to have it not be so unique and special just bugs me, even though it's clearly totally different. Maybe I'm being overly cynical wondering if they were always on the seemingly typical YTer two book deal - it wouldn't be surprising if they were actively pursued to do another book - but idk. We'll see how they present it, I guess!

I'm gonna see them explain it/the trailer before I have strong feelings about it. Right now, I have kinda mixed feelings, but I do really hope it will be great and different (which I'm sure it will be) but you know, I'm a bit .
I don't think theres gonna be another tour after this. But I'm sad because this means less videos and more time working on books and the tour.
I'm just gonna sit here because I predict a shitstorm.