IDB

majitzu wrote:Wait wait wait!

I don know why you guys think this happen in a meet up. This was a random meeting Dan have with a girl. No tour related. No Phil.

That actually makes it better in my opinion. At least he isn't being put on the spot in front of a group of people. <- Why is there a nose emoticon?

This has nothing to do with what you've been discussing (though how cringey was that "his eyes said yes" thing omg) but I was listening to Pink Floyd and one of the lyrics said "Daddy's flown 'cross the ocean / leaving just a memory" and I thought of Phil. You guys have ruined me

angrymob wrote: <- Why is there a nose emoticon?

Because we're middle-aged nose perverts, of course.

Thx pixlexia for the info

majitzu wrote:Wait wait wait!

I don know why you guys think this happen in a meet up. This was a random meeting Dan have with a girl. No tour related. No Phil.

I know it was when Dan was making the doco and in a school right? I was just asking.

akui wrote:

majitzu wrote:Wait wait wait!

I don know why you guys think this happen in a meet up. This was a random meeting Dan have with a girl. No tour related. No Phil.

I know it was when Dan was making the doco and in a school right? I was just asking.

I think was in the same city but not in the school.


I don't find anything bad in Hazel tweet. But hey is very difficult to make me offend by something.

lilMango wrote:Off-topic again, and nobody cares, but...

Do people actually ask them in person whether they are in a relationship or not? I would actually die if I witnessed that. Jesus. Someone please tell me that this doesn't happen.

I didn't know somebody actually did ask them!!

But I have to confess that I would have love to watch the scene, and then just start laughing so hard to die (mainly of embarassment)....

SquishPhan wrote:

daphenaxa wrote: then I saw this tweet and rolled my eyes. That woman LIVES for the drama.

Was the reaction really bad? because i didn't see much.

I don't doubt that there were a few people overreacting, but I don't think that there were many. Even so she should have just let it go, and not tweet about it. I mean what is that really going to accomplish.

akui wrote:Hazel and her friends are just really not internet people, and they just don't understand nor know how to handle the fandom, so sometimes it's very disrespectful.

I agree with you, but I don't consider the tweet disrespectful, but funny....
even if I understand that some other people could find it a bit mean....
Hazel's mistake was to actually include @amazingphil...not a good move....

honestly, I wouldn't doubt that Phil and her have joked about this sort of thing before and that's why she thought it was OK/tagged him etc. I'm sure he's mentioned how annoying stereotypical phangirls are. I'd be rather surprised if he hadn't, actually.

majitzu wrote:

akui wrote:

majitzu wrote:Wait wait wait!

I don know why you guys think this happen in a meet up. This was a random meeting Dan have with a girl. No tour related. No Phil.

I know it was when Dan was making the doco and in a school right? I was just asking.

I think was in the same city but not in the school.

My memory is super cloudy right now but is it not the girl that met Dan in the train?

but I think I'm wrong. Just wanna put my thoughts out there

gasp wrote:honestly, I wouldn't doubt that Phil and her have joked about this sort of thing before and that's why she thought it was OK/tagged him etc. I'm sure he's mentioned how annoying stereotypical phangirls are. I'd be rather surprised if he hadn't, actually.

Honestly tho, can't imagine him saying that to anyone other than Dan or bryony in a complaining way. He might tell the story of a specific crazy fangirl, but just complain in general is like giving people something that they may hold against you. I don't think he trust Hazel.

yeah but the thing is her first tweet where she called Phil bae didn't get a horrible phandom reaction. One or two people said "don't call him that he's Dan's" (probably jokingly as well tbh) and all the rest of the replies were like "don't listen to the phantom Hazel you call him how you like" "sorry in behalf of the phandom" "the phandom is horrible" blablabla.
But she still posted her second "joke" tweet. It's a bit tiring because she uses the stereotype and the perception that the phandom is batshit crazy to make her joke, which furthers the perception that we are indeed all insane phangirls, when in fact nothing happened.
I just don't think that cool. But it's in line with her behaviour anyway. She makes me think of Ben becoming youtube in that way where he craves the views and attention but is so much better than the audience cause they all crazy teenage girls anyways.

I am all whiny lol sorry Maybe it was just a joke it was not funny

[offtopic]I was watching TomSka’s 2nd weekly vlog and an extra video he made for it caught my attention. To sum up, it’s his personal emo rant about creative crisis he was having, but it’s tied in with the evergoing youtube culture discussion, and I thought it could be relevant to D&P.[/offtopic]

akui wrote:

gasp wrote:honestly, I wouldn't doubt that Phil and her have joked about this sort of thing before and that's why she thought it was OK/tagged him etc. I'm sure he's mentioned how annoying stereotypical phangirls are. I'd be rather surprised if he hadn't, actually.

Honestly tho, can't imagine him saying that to anyone other than Dan or bryony in a complaining way. He might tell the story of a specific crazy fangirl, but just complain in general is like giving people something that they may hold against you. I don't think he trust Hazel.

I can't see him doing that either and certainly not with Hazel.

akui wrote:

gasp wrote:honestly, I wouldn't doubt that Phil and her have joked about this sort of thing before and that's why she thought it was OK/tagged him etc. I'm sure he's mentioned how annoying stereotypical phangirls are. I'd be rather surprised if he hadn't, actually.

Honestly tho, can't imagine him saying that to anyone other than Dan or bryony in a complaining way. He might tell the story of a specific crazy fangirl, but just complain in general is like giving people something that they may hold against you. I don't think he trust Hazel.

yeah, same. idk, it seems like a dickish thing to say, and while I don't doubt that he does think that way, voicing it, especially to someone like hazel, who he isn't close to, would be weird. Although, they have known each other since 2011, and I'm sure Phil was at least slightly less filtered at that point, so maybe he said something then. But, right now, I can't see him saying something like that to anyone but his close friends.

gasp wrote:honestly, I wouldn't doubt that Phil and her have joked about this sort of thing before and that's why she thought it was OK/tagged him etc. I'm sure he's mentioned how annoying stereotypical phangirls are. I'd be rather surprised if he hadn't, actually.

I'm not sure I buy that. Because if they're friendly enough that he feels comfortable joking about his fans on her level, shouldn't that indicate that they're close enough that she should understand it wouldn't be cool to do publicly? Going so far as to tag him in it.. I don't know.

edit-wow everybody jumped on that comment at the exact same time lol wtf, but yes to everyone and jhamba

vincentian: (nothing to add rn, but it is interesting to think about)

vincentian wrote:[offtopic]I was watching TomSka’s 2nd weekly vlog and an extra video he made for it caught my attention. To sum up, it’s his personal emo rant about creative crisis he was having, but it’s tied in with the evergoing youtube culture discussion, and I thought it could be relevant to D&P.[/offtopic]

Things he points out:
- Working for youtube algorithm and chasing 'numbers', sacrificing creativity for calculated formula, “Google is a dangerous thing”.
- Being stuck doing short videos that can keep audience's attention to fit in youtube format, affecting creator's ability to tell longer stories/do things on a bigger scale.
- Creative envy and pressure to produce something amazing, comparison to your peers and to the best in the industry, leading to constant questioning of own talent, capabilities, self-worth.

Nothing that hasn't been said before, but I like to (loosely) project what Tom says on D&P as Tom as a peer youtuber speaks out on various subjects Dan (and Phil) never share their thoughts about. I can kind of see better now where Dan’s (possible) anxiety and lack of inspiration to make content and cynicism towards youtube as his job (being a 'clown', 'selling your soul' talk etc.) that we get glimpses of in ls on bad days might be coming from.

Sorry for my English.

very interesting
actually Dan talked about it a bit in a liveshow if you wanna see

daphenaxa wrote:yeah but the thing is her first tweet where she called Phil bae didn't get a horrible phandom reaction. One or two people said "don't call him that he's Dan's" (probably jokingly as well tbh) and all the rest of the replies were like "don't listen to the phantom Hazel you call him how you like" "sorry in behalf of the phandom" "the phandom is horrible" blablabla.
But she still posted her second "joke" tweet. It's a bit tiring because she uses the stereotype and the perception that the phandom is batshit crazy to make her joke, which furthers the perception that we are indeed all insane phangirls, when in fact nothing happened.
I just don't think that cool. But it's in line with her behaviour anyway. She makes me think of Ben becoming youtube in that way where he craves the views and attention but is so much better than the audience cause they all crazy teenage girls anyways.

May I just...

vincentian wrote:Things he points out:
- Working for youtube algorithm and chasing 'numbers', sacrificing creativity for calculated formula, “Google is a dangerous thing”.
- Being stuck doing short videos that can keep audience's attention to fit in youtube format, affecting creator's ability to tell longer stories/do things on a bigger scale.
- Creative envy and pressure to produce something amazing, comparison to your peers and to the best in the industry, leading to constant questioning of own talent, capabilities, self-worth.

I've done so much coursework into Youtube automation and managment, especially in how they manage ad revenue, and some of the implementations in the Youtube 'algorithm' boggle my mind. They seem like temporary fixes that stuck around for some reason, probably because no one could come up with a better method and the success of gaming videos that spawned from the new system is probably the biggest money-maker.

I will say, though, that before these newer implementations, D&P (and other youtubers that now complain about youtube culture) used to play the algorithm game hard. It's just more noticeable now because it's tied directly to content. When youtube changed it up, some of those people continued to benefit from their work playing the old game coupled with the new system, while others didn't. Guess which ones complain about youtube algorithms the most now. I definitely have issues with their current system myself, but I laugh at the ones that suddenly complain about the algorithms in general when it stopped working for them.

Maybe the real reason is that Hazel and Phil are in love, but she calling phil bae made her current boyfriend Jack angry. Knowing that Phil is with Dan, Hazel realised her love with Phil will always be a forbidden fruit that she can never taste.

angrymob wrote:

vincentian wrote:Things he points out:
- Working for youtube algorithm and chasing 'numbers', sacrificing creativity for calculated formula, “Google is a dangerous thing”.
- Being stuck doing short videos that can keep audience's attention to fit in youtube format, affecting creator's ability to tell longer stories/do things on a bigger scale.
- Creative envy and pressure to produce something amazing, comparison to your peers and to the best in the industry, leading to constant questioning of own talent, capabilities, self-worth.

I've done so much coursework into Youtube automation and managment, especially in how they manage ad revenue, and some of the implementations in the Youtube 'algorithm' boggle my mind. They seem like temporary fixes that stuck around for some reason, probably because no one could come up with a better method and the success of gaming videos that spawned from the new system is probably the biggest money-maker.

I will say, though, that before these newer implementations, D&P (and other youtubers that now complain about youtube culture) used to play the algorithm game hard. It's just more noticeable now because it's tied directly to content. When youtube changed it up, some of those people continued to benefit from their work playing the old game coupled with the new system, while others didn't. Guess which ones complain about youtube algorithms the most now. I definitely have issues with their current system myself, but I laugh at the ones that suddenly complain about the algorithms in general when it stopped working for them.

can you explain a bit what kind of content the algorithm propped up before and how Dan and Phil played it hard?

ironic wrote:

daphenaxa wrote:yeah but the thing is her first tweet where she called Phil bae didn't get a horrible phandom reaction. One or two people said "don't call him that he's Dan's" (probably jokingly as well tbh) and all the rest of the replies were like "don't listen to the phantom Hazel you call him how you like" "sorry in behalf of the phandom" "the phandom is horrible" blablabla.
But she still posted her second "joke" tweet. It's a bit tiring because she uses the stereotype and the perception that the phandom is batshit crazy to make her joke, which furthers the perception that we are indeed all insane phangirls, when in fact nothing happened.
I just don't think that cool. But it's in line with her behaviour anyway. She makes me think of Ben becoming youtube in that way where he craves the views and attention but is so much better than the audience cause they all crazy teenage girls anyways.

May I just...

I've been gone today, and couldn't catch up, but I love this description of hazel. She's very manipulative, and she pisses me off when she baits the phandom, because it just seems so petty? And she seems to love the feeling of being smarter than someone, and people coming to her defense when she provokes people for a reaction.

daphenaxa wrote:

vincentian wrote:[offtopic]I was watching TomSka’s 2nd weekly vlog and an extra video he made for it caught my attention. To sum up, it’s his personal emo rant about creative crisis he was having, but it’s tied in with the evergoing youtube culture discussion, and I thought it could be relevant to D&P.[/offtopic]

Things he points out:
- Working for youtube algorithm and chasing 'numbers', sacrificing creativity for calculated formula, “Google is a dangerous thing”.
- Being stuck doing short videos that can keep audience's attention to fit in youtube format, affecting creator's ability to tell longer stories/do things on a bigger scale.
- Creative envy and pressure to produce something amazing, comparison to your peers and to the best in the industry, leading to constant questioning of own talent, capabilities, self-worth.

Nothing that hasn't been said before, but I like to (loosely) project what Tom says on D&P as Tom as a peer youtuber speaks out on various subjects Dan (and Phil) never share their thoughts about. I can kind of see better now where Dan’s (possible) anxiety and lack of inspiration to make content and cynicism towards youtube as his job (being a 'clown', 'selling your soul' talk etc.) that we get glimpses of in ls on bad days might be coming from.

Sorry for my English.

very interesting
actually Dan talked about it a bit in a liveshow if you wanna see

daphenaxa wrote:
can you explain a bit what kind of content the algorithm propped up before and how Dan and Phil played it hard?

Suggested videos used to be decided by star ratings, video clicks, linked clicks, and tags. The tags was almost a joke by a certain point, and I'm sure there's a screenshot of Dan's tags out there, but people would spam them to get recommend on the most videos. Crabstickz's used to be hilarious, though. As for video clicks, Youtube decided they need to change that up because so many people were using misleading and provocative titles and images to get views, (Dan more than Phil did this, I think). Collabs also used to be about getting into more popular channel's recommendation feeds if you could get people to click over to your videos from theirs, as well as introducing yourself to their audience, which is why Guest week spots on big collab channels were so sought after. I wouldn't say D&P were at the spammy level that Youtube was trying to get rid of, but they knew the game and they played it.

EDIT: I should take back some of what I said, as it sounds harsher than it should, after remembering some youtubers who really did scam the system. Compared to them, I'd say D&P were pretty tame beacons of legitimacy.

tbh it's a huge relief lots of you can't stand hazel because from what i've seen on other platforms everyone was enamoured of her in these collabs and i thought something was wrong with me. this woman loves being dramatic for no reason (see her speech at the end of her december totm) and she's doing this again.

i could ignore her pretentious behaviour but i don't like the fact that she is making fun of people who are giving her views (and views = money). yes, phandom can be extremely embarrassing and cringey but 1) a 30 yo woman laughing at teens is kind of pathetic 2) i haven't seen anyone who actually got mad at her for calling phil names? so if anything like this had happened, it had to be a small percentage of viewers. why even focus on them and drag phil into this? i can't see any reason other than her trying to stir up drama, geez just be nice and wait for your paycheck.

to end on a positive note, i enjoyed the sims video a lot, it was the best episode they've done in months. they were so chill and the actual game was interesting so

jhamba wrote:

ironic wrote:

daphenaxa wrote:yeah but the thing is her first tweet where she called Phil bae didn't get a horrible phandom reaction. One or two people said "don't call him that he's Dan's" (probably jokingly as well tbh) and all the rest of the replies were like "don't listen to the phantom Hazel you call him how you like" "sorry in behalf of the phandom" "the phandom is horrible" blablabla.
But she still posted her second "joke" tweet. It's a bit tiring because she uses the stereotype and the perception that the phandom is batshit crazy to make her joke, which furthers the perception that we are indeed all insane phangirls, when in fact nothing happened.
I just don't think that cool. But it's in line with her behaviour anyway. She makes me think of Ben becoming youtube in that way where he craves the views and attention but is so much better than the audience cause they all crazy teenage girls anyways.

May I just...

I've been gone today, and couldn't catch up, but I love this description of hazel. She's very manipulative, and she pisses me off when she baits the phandom, because it just seems so petty? And she seems to love the feeling of being smarter than someone, and people coming to her defense when she provokes people for a reaction.

I wouldn't say she's manipulative, but i do think she enjoys when people (the phandom itself) coming to her defense and apologise to her. And it's not just her either, actually. The phandom hates when some of them, allegedly, act cringey and got blamed as a whole, so they always apologise and give words of encouragement. I'm pretty sure other youtubers notice it too.

The latest i've seen is with Jack and Dean video where they collab-ed with Phil, and make a subtle, joking comment in the end of the video insinuating that people only watch it (and click the like button) for "probably AmazingPhil". And then the comments were full of half of the phadom there just apologising for people who just watch it for Phil, and praise J&D for how good it was and thank them for including Phil etc (regardless for how they actually feel, cause i have a feeling it was just to be nice and for J&D to not hate them, based on the very general words they use). The other half being sick of it and just admit that, yes they're there for Phil so whatever.

I'm pretty sure it felt nice, and boost their self-esteem a little.

Re: regarding youtube culture and stuff. Markiplier post this video on his channel.

10:09 "I care about Youtube, and it sickens me, to see some of the bullshit that comes out of the stupid cycle of (self-fulfilling) pessimism, the ever turning wheel of 'I'm better than you'. and that sucks."
Basically saying he's kind of tired of people complaining and saying they're better but doesn't get as much view as they deserve? It's very interesting. I have a feeling D&P feel like this too, maybe.

^^^ It also draws further attention to them, which I'm sure they appreciate, and makes them seem less like they are using D&P for views.

yonahime wrote: Re: regarding youtube culture and stuff. Markiplier post this video on his channel.

10:09 "I care about Youtube, and it sickens me, to see some of the bullshit that comes out of the stupid cycle of (self)pessimism, the ever turning wheel of 'I'm better than you'. and that sucks."
Basically saying he's kind of tired of people complaining and saying they're better but doesn't get as much view as they deserve? It's very interesting. I have a feeling D&P feel like this too, maybe.

[offtopic]This is a great video and Markiplier basically sums up my thoughts more eloquently and genuinely than I ever could. [/offtopic]

This is going to sound incredibly hypocritical coming from me, someone who takes the piss out of the Phandom quite regularly, but I find it annoying and misogynistic how quick YouTubers are to mock obsessed YouTube fangirls, while fanboys like PewDiePie's Bro Army don't get the same treatment. (The fanboys are actually worse, in my opinion. YouTubers with gaming channels, like Markiplier and PewDiePie, always seem to attract the worse kind of douchey, sexist, 'anti-SJW' dudebro.)