IDB

alittledizzy wrote:But I would also point out that progress doesn't happen by giving people a pass just because their parents were a certain way. I don't think anyone on here is actually angry at Phil; people are discussing the fact that he does try, and that he was inconsistent in his own attempt (not gendering Toto through most of ten episodes and then slipping at the end) and that it shows he hasn't internalized some issues. I think everyone's hope is that he continues to try and that everyone of his generation and so on just gets better and better until things like non-binary pronouns are just part of the fabric of our languages.

dezzawintz wrote:I don't mean to excuse anyone's actions with this analysis, but someone mentioned Phil's upbringing and it got me thinking.

blueapple_x wrote:Don't think anyone has posted this yet. YT Red thanking people for making their content possible.

D+P make an appearance right at the beginning and then again at 0:20.

The comments on the vid are savage (not to D+P, just to YT Red lol).

confusedpanda wrote:

oqua wrote:

For the first line, I can see "___y ____ in/a ___ down/something beginning with the letter d?? To/in and"
The ending word of "and" can fit as a transition into the next line possibly.

Phantasy wrote:It makes me wonder why the card wasn't addressed to Phil as well...
if they were out as a couple to Dan's family in 2014, it would be strange I think to not address them both? Even if Dan's family sees them as just best friends/house mates, I'd still think that warrants a "send our love to Phil" or something, but of course it's very plausible to be omitted.

So, either: a) they weren't out as a couple to Dan's family; b) they were out, but Dan's family refuses to accept/acknowledge (tragic, but might explain a lot)

blu wrote:this makes absolutely no sense but i see 'Joey worry a Phil Howell as well' for the first line.
i feel blind

LeftHandedism wrote:

momoroki wrote:

oqua wrote:Ahh bluebox-away, I like the xxxx idea, because the fifth word really doesn't look like a name.

I agree that the closing comment seems to be three short words; "Lots of love" and something like "Love & hugs" seem equally likely to me personally. But it could be something else too.

So I guess currently I'm seeing something like this?



Do you guys agree that the front of the card shows a dog?

It looks like "Dan, sorry to (something something) so well to me
I thought it was "Dan, nice to see you're doing so well" at first but it doesn't fit completely haha

How about the first line reading

"Dan, sorry to hear about the ????"

adonais wrote:I found the card!! It's the same picture and at the very least the same first letter of the write up, just without the banner!



I'm on mobile but if someone can reverse image search and figure out the company they could probably find the exact version Dan has. I found this on a completely random card site, this one is actually for Birthdays.

Now, it's nearly 3am and I'm gonna celebrate this find with a nap.

kkell3000 wrote:

adonais wrote:I found the card!! It's the same picture and at the very least the same first letter of the write up, just without the banner!



I'm on mobile but if someone can reverse image search and figure out the company they could probably find the exact version Dan has. I found this on a completely random card site, this one is actually for Birthdays.

Now, it's nearly 3am and I'm gonna celebrate this find with a nap.

There is this one, although it is not very festive

Phantasy wrote:It makes me wonder why the card wasn't addressed to Phil as well...
if they were out as a couple to Dan's family in 2014, it would be strange I think to not address them both? Even if Dan's family sees them as just best friends/house mates, I'd still think that warrants a "send our love to Phil" or something, but of course it's very plausible to be omitted.

So, either: a) they weren't out as a couple to Dan's family; b) they were out, but Dan's family refuses to accept/acknowledge (tragic, but might explain a lot)

Waggle9007 wrote:

kkell3000 wrote:

adonais wrote:I found the card!! It's the same picture and at the very least the same first letter of the write up, just without the banner!



I'm on mobile but if someone can reverse image search and figure out the company they could probably find the exact version Dan has. I found this on a completely random card site, this one is actually for Birthdays.

Now, it's nearly 3am and I'm gonna celebrate this find with a nap.

There is this one, although it is not very festive

Well the northerners joke would explain the seeming apology to phil in the first line

'Really sorry to Phil about the card'?

MoonPride wrote:

Waggle9007 wrote:

kkell3000 wrote:

adonais wrote:I found the card!! It's the same picture and at the very least the same first letter of the write up, just without the banner!



I'm on mobile but if someone can reverse image search and figure out the company they could probably find the exact version Dan has. I found this on a completely random card site, this one is actually for Birthdays.

Now, it's nearly 3am and I'm gonna celebrate this find with a nap.

There is this one, although it is not very festive

Well the northerners joke would explain the seeming apology to phil in the first line

'Really sorry to Phil about the card'?

I can't unsee that now.

kkell3000 wrote:

adonais wrote:I found the card!! It's the same picture and at the very least the same first letter of the write up, just without the banner!



I'm on mobile but if someone can reverse image search and figure out the company they could probably find the exact version Dan has. I found this on a completely random card site, this one is actually for Birthdays.

Now, it's nearly 3am and I'm gonna celebrate this find with a nap.

There is this one, although it is not very festive

dezzawintz wrote:I know the conversation has moved on, but I just wanted to chime in on the non-binary/casual cissexism discussion in relation to Phil and his upbringing.

Phil, like me, is a northerner. I grew up very near to where he did, and I almost went to his high school. I'm sure were I a couple of years older and a couple of towns over, we would have been great friends. I too am a massive emo loser whaddup philly hmu let's go hang down't urbis together.

I went over this on the website that shall not be named, but it was years ago and I did a shoddy (drunken) job, so I'm going to do it again. Basically, Phil is super northern; I don't just mean his accent (because lbr, he's pretty much lost it and I'll never forgive him), but I mean in who he is, you know? His personality, his mannerisms, his humour, it all shines with a faint glow that helps us northerners spot one another out in the big, scary world.

Here is some (probably boring) historical context:

Gender roles are prevalent everywhere, but they're especially ingrained into northern working class culture. I'm not necessarily saying that Phil is/was brought up working class (that's a whole other discussion), but many people in the north are brought up with working class values, despite their income, because their parents (and/or grandparents) were working class factory workers.

The north used to be the UK's centre of industry. We thrived for a long time, and each area had a speciality; whether that was mining, textiles, farming, or whatever else. Our (mine and Phil's) towns and the close city of Manchester were huge for cotton manufacturing (fun fact: Manchester was once nicknamed Cottonopolis (bants), and was deliberately built to be one of the most rainy cities in the UK because the moist air was good for cotton production).

Alas, it couldn't last forever, and in the second half of the 20th century the golden age of manufacturing started to die. Northern towns died along with it, and the northern landscape is now depressingly bleak. You might recall the minor's riots (shown in Billy Elliot), or have heard people slating Margaret Thatcher (second fun fact: when you leave 10 Downing Street after a term as Prime Minister, you're allowed to take the front door with you. Only two Prime Minister's ever did, and Maggie, of course, is one of them lol).

You may have seen that votes for Brexit were a majority in the north. A non racist reason for that is that many northerners blame globalisation for the death of northern industry, and feel completely abandoned/left behind as the world progresses. I was a Bremainer, but there is definitely a deep sense of aching loss at the death of northern industry that still chimes through the souls of many in the north today.

ANYWAY, sick tangent dezza, I swear I have a point lol. Basically, this industrialisation encouraged a culture that relied pretty heavily on gender roles. If I'd have been alive in the 1940's, I would have left school at 14, worked in the mills until I found a nice fella, got married after a lengthy courtship, had his kids, and been the stay at home mum that I am definitely not cut out to be; all while he would continue to work in the mills, and bring home the bacon. If I was feeling particularly adventurous, I might have trained to be a typist or a secretary, but at some point I would have probably have had kids and become a northern mam. That is likely how Phil's grandparents lived, and his parents were probably raised with that mindset, resulting in Phil being raised with a strong sense of what gender is and how it is "appropriate" for "men and women" to act.

In the same way that a depression lingers from the industrial decline, so do the values and expectations of that time. I love the north, and am very proud to be northern (and working class), but there is sometimes an eagerness to hold onto "working class family values" that is heavily ingrained, even in people that are more progressive, because that way of life is not very distant in our past.

Now I'm not saying that northerners are less progressive that anybody else, far from it; I feel that some northern characteristics are more progressive: we have an almost socialist model of looking out for one another, and forming very tight communities, for example. At the end of the day, it all depends on the person; I'm working class, but I'm as left leaning as they come, and a self identified queer. I don't mean to excuse anyone's actions with this analysis, but someone mentioned Phil's upbringing and it got me thinking.

My personal opinion is that I love them for trying, and I think that we're all on a journey when it comes to identity politics. Some stuff is so deeply ingrained into the public psyche that even when you as a person exist in a way that directly opposes what we're taught, it can be incredibly hard to get it right all the time.

Sorry that this is so long, and also that I can't seem to post without going into an unreasonable amount of detail lol. Love y'all, I'll be lurkin'

secretagentphan wrote:

MoonPride wrote:

Waggle9007 wrote:

kkell3000 wrote:

adonais wrote:I found the card!! It's the same picture and at the very least the same first letter of the write up, just without the banner!



I'm on mobile but if someone can reverse image search and figure out the company they could probably find the exact version Dan has. I found this on a completely random card site, this one is actually for Birthdays.

Now, it's nearly 3am and I'm gonna celebrate this find with a nap.

There is this one, although it is not very festive

Well the northerners joke would explain the seeming apology to phil in the first line

'Really sorry to Phil about the card'?

I can't unsee that now.

Aww that I think we cracked it! That's adorable tbh, but wow are we creeps

Rai wrote:Seriously, guys, you're better than Sherlock.

I think the first line must be in relation with the "looking forward to seeing you soon", so I don't know if "Sorry about to hear about ???" would fit in that. Unless... unless the ending of the first sentence is not "and". Would it be weird to say "Looking forward to seeing you" in its own? The language barrier is making me question everything, help

Waggle9007 wrote:

kkell3000 wrote:

adonais wrote:I found the card!! It's the same picture and at the very least the same first letter of the write up, just without the banner!



I'm on mobile but if someone can reverse image search and figure out the company they could probably find the exact version Dan has. I found this on a completely random card site, this one is actually for Birthdays.

Now, it's nearly 3am and I'm gonna celebrate this find with a nap.

There is this one, although it is not very festive

Well the northerners joke would explain the seeming apology to phil in the first line

'Really sorry to Phil about the card'?

Wylis wrote:I think I see "Say sorry to Phil..."?

• To Dan
  Say sorry to Phil about the card.
  Looking forward to seeing you soon.
  Merry Christmas
  Lots of love
  Mum Dad Adrian
  &Colin xxxx

oqua wrote:I'm sure that the card is the one with the "Northerners" joke because the way the ends of the lines are staggered matches the way the last three lines on the front of Dan's card are staggered.

dezzawintz wrote:(second fun fact: when you leave 10 Downing Street after a term as Prime Minister, you're allowed to take the front door with you. Only two Prime Minister's ever did, and Maggie, of course, is one of them lol)

oqua wrote: Okay, I'm convinced lol.

• To Dan
  Say sorry to Phil about the card.
  Looking forward to seeing you soon.
  Merry Christmas
  Lots of love
  Mum Dad Adrian
  &Colin xxxx

Edit #2: I do think it could also say "Really sorry" or "Truly sorry," but I'm like 99% convinced that they're apologizing to Phil for the Northerners joke.