IDB

spaceguitar wrote:Okay, so im ready to accept that D+P are not together. But I want to hear dating stories and whatever else. I want to know more about their personal lives

Are you talking hypothetically, or have you changed your mind recently too?

mio wrote:Or they are casually dating/hooking up, which would be even more dangerous as to being discovered, how to tell if you can trust somebody if you just met them? Could they be sure that none of their hook-ups would spill the beans later? Or just any random friend who got told the story and couldnt keep their mouth shut? Somebody who saw them on the street? And since we've got nothing, not even claims about supposed involvements, I'd be really surprised if one of these options was the case.

wow, did you totally ignore my post about the private exclusive sex clubs?

papierklemmen wrote:same, but at the same time some people just don't like sharing their personal lives.
it's interesting though that dan seemingly got it from phil, since he used to be an attention seeker

"Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. Look at how much attention we pay to things he probably wish we'd ignore, after all.

pilotlight wrote:

papierklemmen wrote:same, but at the same time some people just don't like sharing their personal lives.
it's interesting though that dan seemingly got it from phil, since he used to be an attention seeker

"Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. Look at how much attention we pay to things he probably wish we'd ignore, after all.

Ha, very true. Dan's said a lot of things, and often contradicts himself.

melon lord wrote:

Winston wrote:I could see them hiding a relationship, I mean think of the fallout. Hiding it would be the best option.

My big thing is their history and how close they are. Even if they are't together, they still have a very questionable history and a new s/o would have to have the worlds biggest ego to withstand the relationship between these two. Projecting: If I met a guy who lived with his best friend, and they were that close. I would question it a little bit. But if I knew about the history, even if they both would laugh it off and say oh that was just for ....whatever the reason they could come up with...it would be suspicious as hell. I mean they still live together and a super close, and spend most of their time together. It would be strange, like the third wheel in an established relationship.

Don't know if I explained that well... I blame my brain not working properly due to lack of oxygen...*cough*

In that case it would depend how the person treats you. If they treat you like an equal but different part of their life or you will just never reach the level their friend is. I wouldn't mind if I met a Dan who had a Phil in the sense that it would be an extra friend (and I have very few so gotta get that count to one hand ), but if I was treated like a side dish then I'd be upset. No reason you have to compete, if the person in the middle is juggling you then that's not fair to you.

/that's melon lord's relationship advice hotline for tonight

How would said s/o get close enough at the beginning to get treated as an equal? How would someone else establish a relationship with one of them? I mean sure one may get coffee or something by themselves and could meet someone, but how would this new person get them interested enough to cut the friendship-umbilical-cord long enough to become significant enough to 'compete' for affection. I really think they would have to compete for affection at least for a while. These two are, if just biffles, affectionate with one another, so it would be a big change to start caring for a whole other person who would require affection too.

seriously, this is a mess... I can't figure out how to organize my thoughts properly.... smh, hopefully someone gets what I am trying to say... I'm so spacey today

jhamba wrote:

mio wrote:Or they are casually dating/hooking up, which would be even more dangerous as to being discovered, how to tell if you can trust somebody if you just met them? Could they be sure that none of their hook-ups would spill the beans later? Or just any random friend who got told the story and couldnt keep their mouth shut? Somebody who saw them on the street? And since we've got nothing, not even claims about supposed involvements, I'd be really surprised if one of these options was the case.

wow, did you totally ignore my post about the private exclusive sex clubs?

I think I learned from some celeb scandals that you can never be sure that nobody is going to out you.

Winston wrote:

melon lord wrote:

Winston wrote:I could see them hiding a relationship, I mean think of the fallout. Hiding it would be the best option.

My big thing is their history and how close they are. Even if they are't together, they still have a very questionable history and a new s/o would have to have the worlds biggest ego to withstand the relationship between these two. Projecting: If I met a guy who lived with his best friend, and they were that close. I would question it a little bit. But if I knew about the history, even if they both would laugh it off and say oh that was just for ....whatever the reason they could come up with...it would be suspicious as hell. I mean they still live together and a super close, and spend most of their time together. It would be strange, like the third wheel in an established relationship.

Don't know if I explained that well... I blame my brain not working properly due to lack of oxygen...*cough*

In that case it would depend how the person treats you. If they treat you like an equal but different part of their life or you will just never reach the level their friend is. I wouldn't mind if I met a Dan who had a Phil in the sense that it would be an extra friend (and I have very few so gotta get that count to one hand ), but if I was treated like a side dish then I'd be upset. No reason you have to compete, if the person in the middle is juggling you then that's not fair to you.

/that's melon lord's relationship advice hotline for tonight

How would said s/o get close enough at the beginning to get treated as an equal? How would someone else establish a relationship with one of them? I mean sure one may get coffee or something by themselves and could meet someone, but how would this new person get them interested enough to cut the friendship-umbilical-cord long enough to become significant enough to 'compete' for affection. I really think they would have to compete for affection at least for a while. These two are, if just biffles, affectionate with one another, so it would be a big change to start caring for a whole other person who would require affection too.

seriously, this is a mess... I can't figure out how to organize my thoughts properly.... smh, hopefully someone gets what I am trying to say... I'm so spacey today

You make a very good point here. Never thought about it like that.

jhamba wrote:

mio wrote:Or they are casually dating/hooking up, which would be even more dangerous as to being discovered, how to tell if you can trust somebody if you just met them? Could they be sure that none of their hook-ups would spill the beans later? Or just any random friend who got told the story and couldnt keep their mouth shut? Somebody who saw them on the street? And since we've got nothing, not even claims about supposed involvements, I'd be really surprised if one of these options was the case.

wow, did you totally ignore my post about the private exclusive sex clubs?

damn I totally forgot about them sex clubs. forget everything I said. Do you think they share a membership and take turns using it? or go together and pick out people for each other?

I'm sorry (not sorry) to be the one who said it but the word we are looking for is Occam's Razor. pls don't me.

Anyway,

I enjoy that live tweet more than I thought I should. There was a moment where I realise I f up because the films is in my phone but if I watch it, I can't join the live tweet, so I ended up using twitter on pc instead. Haha. But it's easier to change the tab to see what dnp says and stuff so

I am so proud of them
and that was the third time I watch the docu today. I don't know how deep I am in this dumpster but what I know is that I am not going to get out anytime soon.

Also, yes to dartyn! Dartyn is the new phan.

mio wrote:

jhamba wrote:

mio wrote:Or they are casually dating/hooking up, which would be even more dangerous as to being discovered, how to tell if you can trust somebody if you just met them? Could they be sure that none of their hook-ups would spill the beans later? Or just any random friend who got told the story and couldnt keep their mouth shut? Somebody who saw them on the street? And since we've got nothing, not even claims about supposed involvements, I'd be really surprised if one of these options was the case.

wow, did you totally ignore my post about the private exclusive sex clubs?

damn I totally forgot about them sex clubs. forget everything I said. Do you think they share a membership and take turns using it? or go together and pick out people for each other?

I think they probably pick out people for each other. this way, the jealousy is reduced, or at least tempered, because neither would be able to complain as much.

And, they probably have their own membership each. I think it'll be weird if they let people share memberships at the kind of exclusive places they go to. It'll be a serious privacy risk.

JoeAverage wrote:Its does make me wonder where this whole Phil!tops debacle thing started? because i was somewhat in the phandom many years ago, I left it and then came back barely last year and a lot had changed, also yeah I do feel the same, i wish we could have more top!dan action. Just cos he's a diva doesnt mean he cant exude manliness when he wants to sorry its 5am here im normally less trashy i swear

Same. I don’t give a shit what they actually do in their actual lives (if anything at all), but I am interested in perception, and trends in perception over time. So, like the nerd I am, I made a graph. (of only fic rated E on Ao3. I’m aware that other sites exist, but Ao3 is a site I’m familiar with and gives me a limited sample size) Currently it’s only complete up to early October 2014, but it captures the fact that at the start of the Ao3 Dan Howell/Phil Lester tag, the first three pieces of smut still there, from late 2012 and early 2013, were all top Dan. It wasn’t until late March 2013 that the first surviving example of top Phil was uploaded to the site.
So, um, whatever it is that makes people think that Phil tops wasn’t there in late 2012, or was overshadowed by something people saw then which is now overlooked. Perhaps that factor was changes in their personas. Dan was more (I’m not sure “aggressive” is the right word, but I can’t find a better one) in his youtube content back then, and Phil was even less sexual than he seems now. Maybe people back then saw Phil as too sweet and innocent to be a top, while Dan seemed to have a more dominant personality (not that topping has to be a dominating act, but we’re talking about fanfiction here).

While reading the early fic, I noticed that the focus of it was different from the focus of smut written more recently. In smut from 2015-16, the focus tends to be on the receptive partner, and their pleasure. Phanfiction, generally, is often written by a female author, for the enjoyment of a presumably female reader. The reader is supposed to identify with the receptive partner, and that was also the case in the early phanfiction, but in that case the receptive partner was Phil. Rather than the focus being on Phil’s pleasure, as it often is in recent fic, it was focused on the privilege of him getting to have sex with Dan. Whether the fic was Established Relationship or Friends-to-lovers, the Phil character was insecure, and astonished to be blessed with Dan’s affections. The focus was on how attractive Dan was, and how lucky Phil was to get to have sex with him.

In 2012-13, the reader was presumed to want to fuck Dan. Now, the reader is presumed to want to be Dan.

we are ALWAYS back to the phan theories

Guys, I don't care how they "label" their relationship. There is no one else.

It could be possible that they hookup with strangers or have a fwb relationship with someone other than each other but I think that deppy are just not the type of people who settle for casual relationships.

But who knows

Edit:

BisexualShoeMarriage wrote: Now, the reader is presumed to want to be Dan.

I mean.. I wouldn't mind Phil pleasuring me

jhamba wrote: I think they probably pick out people for each other. this way, the jealousy is reduced, or at least tempered, because neither would be able to complain as much.

I think I have read this fanfic. In other life. I mean another fandom. I'll let myself out now goodnight


(edit: I can't believe this was my 100th post)

mio wrote:

jhamba wrote: I think they probably pick out people for each other. this way, the jealousy is reduced, or at least tempered, because neither would be able to complain as much.

I think I have read this fanfic. In other life. I mean another fandom. I'll let myself out now goodnight


(edit: I can't believe this was my 100th post)

I think we all know Dan would still be envious of anyone getting close to Phil

Did you guys catch this tweet from Dan:




The lines in that part of the song are:

Without the internet,
We never would have met.

cuteness

I don't really think there's room in that relationship for another SO. Two's company, three's a crowd

Philena wrote:Guys, I don't care how they "label" their relationship. There is no one else.

your sex club discussion just reminded me of Tom Odell joking about going with deppy to a sauna and "things happened there" in his dream

what if he wasn't joking and it was actually true

I left out the line Phil says

Phil: and there is not a thing that I regret!

karma_yeah wrote:Did you guys catch this tweet from Dan:




The lines in that part of the song are:

Without the internet,
We never would have met.
And there is not a thing that I regret!

cuteness

I don't really think there's room in that relationship for another SO. Two's company, three's a crowd

Very sweet, and obviously a crowd pleaser.

Agreed, there is no room for another in their lives.

jhamba wrote: the weirdest thing, though, is that they both are quite possessive of each other. Having a jealous person being close to someone you're dating would be a task to deal with, especially if they do come first in your SO's life. Even if they treated you as an equal, your life would be made harder, just because your SO's bff thinks you're stealing the time away, when they're used to getting undivided attention.

I agree, and also think this is the reason why a lot of people arent still friends with their exes, even if it ended on good terms and you like their personality. The idea that you are no longer that persons "first" is rough, even if you no longer love them: its hard to be "downgraded", after all we are all human (or are we? ) and still seek attention from those we care for. Thats why most people take a complete break after they split, so you can get used to the idea that, that person is not "yours" anymore.

Soz if this doesnt make sense, im juggling this and a writing a paper and it turns out im being sucky at both

SquishPhan wrote:

karma_yeah wrote:Did you guys catch this tweet from Dan:




The lines in that part of the song are:

Without the internet,
We never would have met.
And there is not a thing that I regret!

cuteness

I don't really think there's room in that relationship for another SO. Two's company, three's a crowd

Very sweet, and obviously a crowd pleaser.

Agreed, there is no room for another in their lives.

Except that's not the line...at least, not in the official version. That is what we thought it was when we were trying to hear it over the screaming lol



Also, I found the girl with the black top in the twitter feed and stalked her profile. She annoyed me exactly as much as I thought she would lol. Not that shes a bad person or anything (I actually enjoyed her political rants) but something about the fangirling just rubs me the wrong way. Its why I'm here and not any other places lol.

BisexualShoeMarriage wrote: In 2012-13, the reader was presumed to want to fuck Dan. Now, the reader is presumed to want to be Dan.

I'm LIVING for this graph and this analysis!!! However I'd like to give you my 2 cents. When I was in the phandom in 2012, I was a dan tops fan, but I still feel like it was hard to find dan tops fanfiction, as most of the stuff I stumbled upon seemed to be Phil tops fanfiction. I didn't know AO3 existed at that point, so it was all exclusively tumblr. Not sure how many other phandom members knew AO3 or used it but idk, it just seemed like it wasn't what people used, although now most tumblr fics have AO3 links as well. So yeah...interesting though that most of the early AO3 fics had dan topping, maybe the dan top fans (except me) took refuge in AO3 and formed a little community to get away from the phil tops stans......where was my invitation??

My preferences on who tops doesn't have much to do with who I relate to, in my opinion. I think it has more to do with dan and phils dynamics. in 2012, Dan was more of a leader of Phil. He conducted a strong presence online while phil remained silent. He emphasized that they were friends and equals. Now, he seems to be way more open about the idea that he looks up to Phil, not to say they aren't equals, but I feel like Dan is much more clear now about how much he looks up to Phil. Phil Trash #1 anyone? And their presence online is pretty matched now that Dan isn't keyboard warrior-ing on a tumblr.

So tl;dr, in 2012 Dan just seemed to be more a ringleader, whereas now in 2016 he isn't so much so. So in 2012, it would seem natural that he would top Phil based on his behavior and their interactions, in my opinion.

Plus there's of course, his discomfort with the idea of being associated with the concept of being not-straight. So in my mind, bottoming would feel a lot more gay than topping, so to me that fed into why dan would top. That could be totally out of nowhere but it was my train of thought.

Now Dan is totally fine with being not-straight, even though he has yet to put a label on it. Evan P jokes, even in his stage show. RYC. As Mandy mentioned "enter me troye" etc. Now, Dan seems more flamboyant than Phil.

So now, I like fics where Phil tops, because it seems to match their current dynamic more.

I wouldn't say that I want to have sex with Dan or be Dan (okay okay i totally wanna have sex w Dan sometimes but I wouldn't let that dictate my preferences in fanfiction, and i would never read those insert-yourself fics or something *shivers*)

Aaaaaaand that's the long winded explanation no one asked for! I hope it made some sense.

i can't believe out of all things, you lot are having doubts about their relationship. i'm not mad i'm just disappointed. who are you lot i want my old crew back.

bus / bed / bunkgate: obviously staged, what did you expect them to do, if they didn't address it in the movie why would dan all of a sudden go 'lol so this was fake' cmon, he make a weak joke and moved on. can we do the same?

shower awkwardness: how any of you got from that is beyond me. i did not read it that way at all. they aren't the only people on that bus please tell me how many of you would be completely comfortable showering in front of you boss because i wouldn't, not forgetting the shower was short and flimsy and deciding to shower somewhere nicer is not exactly a crime. thirdly their own bathroom at home has a glass door why would phil all of a sudden feel so awkward showering in front of dan when i am so positive throughout their seven years of friendship, dating or not. they have seen each other naked.

GUYS. Guys. Guys.

Its happened. My phan goggles are back.

The live-tweeting worked and I watched the TATINOF show (yes - I was that pissed after the doc I didn't watch it - I didn't explicitly say that cos I knew I'd be lynched). It was kind of a cringe-fest but I still loved it.

So I've just been rewatching some of my favourite Deppy videos and it struck me that we may not know for sure the exact details of their relationship, but we know what type of people they are. We also know how self-aware and aware of their audience's reactions/perceptions they are.

As a result of those two things I just can't see that two good-natured people, who are self-aware enough to know how their actions will be interpreted, would do something like tease at a relationship they know their viewers have been heavily invested in for 7 years if there weren't a real relationship underneath it. That would be so cold which is why I've been salty cos that's what I was thinking was happening, but taking a step back really does aid perspective.

Fuck busgate. Fuck bedgate. I'm looking at the bigger picture now instead. And I'm much happier for it.

edit - Artdefines06 that's the line after buddy

edit 2 - BisexualShoeMarriage v interesting insight, particularly the end (which rings very true - Dan is more 'one of us' to the fangirls now I think, rather than someone to lust after, which may speak volumes to the progression of his expression of sexuality over the years)