IDB

'Persona' never makes much sense to me. I get that they have to act to an extent for their videos. But with Dan I can always see the cogs turning. When he makes a flop video I can judge that he's uninspired or out of his element. And sure sometimes I'm disappointed. But I just don't have the same sense with Phil (then again I don't really like his content, but I get the general sense that even people who do don't feel like they know what Phil is thinking.)I'm super interested in grannypants judgement that Phil's content can be off-putting to the serious minded. I'm always looking for the reason that it doesn't gel for me, and this seems true for me- i'm definitely serious-minded.

Now having seen danphil333's post, I want to add that I don't like fake- deep. I don't do pretentious. When Dan leans on the pretentious side I'm slightly off put. What I do like is the intellectual element that he brings to his vids. ( I should probably stop talking now, seeing as I havent watched his new video bc I'm afraid of the cringe.)

just watched dinof vid, can't say i laughed but it was an ok one
i appreciate it tho, yeah there are a million vids of the same kind but lbr most students never go around looking for tips abt studying so it's good for his teen viewers imo

daichii wrote: but lbr most students never go around looking for tips abt studying so it's good for his teen viewers imo

idk like are people gonna even take him seriously? I don't think it's really gonna help anyone. not trying to be a negative nancy but that's just how i feel.

danphil333 wrote:
what about dans persona?? why do we have such a big problem with phils persona and judge him for it literally every other day. I really dont see much criticism on dans persona other than the usual "he is so LOUD". Is it just his loudness?? They both have their personas but if we have to choose which one overuses (is this a word its 4am sorry) i would say hands down dan.
is dinof reflecting dans actual personality better???

why do i feel like some people dislike the fact that phil has a persona (not the actual persona) but refuse to acknowledge that dan has an ugly persona too? not directed to you blueapple_x

also another difference in their sub counts: Phil content is not aimed at teenager(yt demographic) like dan. I think kids and adults can enjoy phils content more than teens. (generalization sorry but i hope you get what i mean) I think its the fact that he is not being that "serious" and he doesnt give the "substance" so many want. Everyone in their teens wants to be taken seriously its like seeking validation through youtube . You cant possibly watch sth that is just fun/silly entertainment you need sth "deep" and fake "important" to make you feel smart and intellectual .The fact that they search for it on youtube of all places is a joke..
kids dont think like that and adults get over it at some point and they chill

literally like 3 people at most dislike the phil persona and everyone else is like 'omg he is NOT childish that's not true' please chill your grill, calm your jam, etc phil stans are so defensive and overcompensate so much
dans ~persona~ is literally a louder, more confident version of what he's shown for years, with the only changes being his attention to fan culture and being careful to not offend. phil, instead, has changed massively over the years in various ways. it's not what he was 7 years ago, so people notice the disconnect and realise that some version of philil is an act

jaej wrote: literally like 3 people at most dislike the phil persona and everyone else is like 'omg he is NOT childish that's not true' please chill your grill, calm your jam, etc phil stans are so defensive and overcompensate so much
dans ~persona~ is literally a louder, more confident version of what he's shown for years, with the only changes being his attention to fan culture and being careful to not offend. phil, instead, has changed massively over the years in various ways. it's not what he was 7 years ago, so people notice the disconnect and realise that some version of philil is an act

y'know I don't agree, I think Phil has changed the least throughout the years and Dan has changed the most. Dan has done some serious maturing and mellowing out and Phil was a little older so he's done a little less of those things. Dan's content has changed, often to match trends on tumblr or cater to his fans, while phil has stayed true to himself imo.

I wish I had a better way of explaining myself but I'm also tipsy so

danphil333 wrote:also another difference in their sub counts: Phil content is not aimed at teenager(yt demographic) like dan. I think kids and adults can enjoy phils content more than teens. (generalization sorry but i hope you get what i mean) I think its the fact that he is not being that "serious" and he doesnt give the "substance" so many want. Everyone in their teens wants to be taken seriously its like seeking validation through youtube . You cant possibly watch sth that is just fun/silly entertainment you need sth "deep" and fake "important" to make you feel smart and intellectual .The fact that they search for it on youtube of all places is a joke..
kids dont think like that and adults get over it at some point and they chill

This is one area where the double standard for Dan and Phil is obvious. Dan can make entire "support group videos" where he answers questions from literal kids, but because he sips on some wine and curses once or twice while doing it then clearly he's not making content for kids and it's fine.

I hadn't thought of it from the perspective you just brought up before now, but I think you kind of nailed something there. Dan offers a pseudo-intellect vibe that a lot of fans crave out of their hobbies, because liking things that they can say are deep makes them feel deeper/smarter. Phil doesn't actually try to do that, he just tries to make light-hearted entertainment, and because he's not pandering to the loudest youtube demographic (teenagers) he's being written off as childish.

jaej wrote: phil stans are so defensive and overcompensate so much

Look, we don't get much in the way of Phil talk around here, I'm just happy when I get the chance to talk about him and people are actually responding - even if they're disagreeing with me.

They both have personas. They both are much more interesting to me as themselves. Or what they allow us to see as themselves. YouNow, Radio, Gaming channel etc. Of course they are still in persona mode on these, but they are less so than when they are on the main channels. I want to see the Phil that wins Cards against humanity sometimes! That is what I mean by rebranding, remove the fake and instill the real, or at least realer Phil and Dan. I know this would never happen, but little glimpses now and then would be great. It does seem to be happening in some places, but then in others it is almost exaggerated persona. I am looking at the Obama Llama vid as an example. I see real persona, but then over persona in both of them. I really like both of them as people, from what I can see of them and I think if they would show that side more they would be more relevant than they are currently. To new people I could see the over "acting" as off putting. I don't know if I am getting my point across the way I want. I have too many distractions right now to really express myself properly.

eevee wrote:

daichii wrote: but lbr most students never go around looking for tips abt studying so it's good for his teen viewers imo

idk like are people gonna even take him seriously? I don't think it's really gonna help anyone. not trying to be a negative nancy but that's just how i feel.

i would think a few of them might, he's watched by millions so it's not statiscally impossible... dont really mind either way tho

@other topic
they've both kind of had the same changes in their personas tho: from flirty to cringe af to whatever they are now. imo how they both act now is the closest to who they actually are

Sorry to butt in mid-discussion but I'm curious as to what's on this paper. Are they just scribbles or something more?

danphil333 wrote: what about dans persona?? why do we have such a big problem with phils persona and judge him for it literally every other day. I really dont see much criticism on dans persona other than the usual "he is so LOUD". Is it just his loudness?? They both have their personas but if we have to choose which one overuses (is this a word its 4am sorry) i would say hands down dan.
is dinof reflecting dans actual personality better???

why do i feel like some people dislike the fact that phil has a persona (not the actual persona) but refuse to acknowledge that dan has an ugly persona too? not directed to you blueapple_x

I think people do discuss Dan's persona a fair bit. Like you mentioned, many people complain about his over the top loudness, as well as his forced meme/relatableness all the time. I'm sure there are more you can think of but those ones stand out the most to me. I haven't really stopped to contemplate who gets judged more for their persona because the arguments are often always the same for both sides and I often agree with the criticisms for both of them anyway.

Although, as jaej touched on, maybe people feel as though Dan's persona reflects his exaggerated personality slightly more so the contrast between personality vs persona isn't as polar as it is with Phil's? Or to simplify, Dan's persona is an exaggerated version of him and Phil's persona is a restrained version of him. Idk, just throwing out ideas .

I feel like their liveshows (and other people's vlogs sometimes) are the best things we've got that reflect their real personalities the most.

Jeweul wrote:Sorry to butt in mid-discussion but I'm curious as to what's on this paper. Are they just scribbles or something more?

i see a flow chart?

I've been trying to work out what I don't like so much about Phil. Feel free to skip this post. It is mostly just cathartic for me. I've realized that what I find offputting about him is where we see his moments of insecurity. Like in the chat logs video about how his girlfriend broke up with him, or when he has mentioned being bullied at school. I guess that I don't like his impassive attitude about these things. And this definitely relates back to me and a fear of feeling out of control in my life (personal shit- I've just learned recently that when you have that gut dislike, it often is a reflection on your own unconscious).
Dan definitely shows his insecurity. But then he always seems to be searching for answers. Then he will say things like 'This is the happiest I've been in my life', and I feel good for him. He has moments of real confidence that I really like about him.
I realized this through thinking about how content that I like from Phil is things like DanandPhilCrafts, or his old vids where he either acted more confident or played an interesting character. So I guess that 'manchild' Phil for me is the one who puts himself down or acts really ditzy. I like the image of self-confident Phil, but I don't feel like I ever get to see it.

Re: the hotel room: The room looks like part of a 2 room suite in a mid-level / 2-3 star hotel. It is not a king bed, more like a queen bed. I can see them sharing a bed when necessary - like on the bus, or when there are no double / suites available - they do like to be closeby to one another it seems. But I bet they are glad to get their own beds just to be able to stretch out and get a really restful night of sleep (I'm 6-2 and I usually sleep diagonally on a queen bed.)

A few pages back, someone remarks that Dan has a "very, very soft voice," which is hard to reconcile with many people here who *complain* that Dan is so LOUD. FTR, I think his voice is normally soft, but the boy can get (perhaps inappropriately) excited.

Finally, jfc - I caught up on the forum last night, and since then , a new thread and 13 pages of content showed up.... are you bored, people?

blueapple_x wrote: Although, as jaej touched on, maybe people feel as though Dan's persona reflects his exaggerated personality slightly more so the contrast between personality vs persona isn't as polar as it is with Phil's? Or to simplify, Dan's persona is an exaggerated version of him and Phil's persona is a restrained version of him. Idk, just throwing out ideas .

i agree with that, and both are equally annoying to me

although i must admit that i can deal with dan's more on skits because i see it as a character that can be sometimes funny but phil's content is more vloggy so he doesn't get that out, soz phil

Ohh I see now, thank you idk.

[offtopic]Phil's tweet just now really brought it to reality that I am currently with in 20 min of them. If not less, if they decide to not stay downtown they would be staying about 10 minutes from my house. So weird. [/offtopic]

idk wrote: Imo, he has so, so much untapped potential with his linguistics degree, post production masters, his darker sense of humour and appreciation of dark humour(?) etc (maybe I’m biased lol bc I love dark humour but nevertheless)

And for the love of god, make a video about linguistics (biased again lol)

During a IDB linguists meet up on another thread awhile back we discussed Phil and linguistics, and I got the glaringly obvious feeling that he did not enjoy his lingusitic studies much. He's made like 3 mentions of it and they were pretty much all negative.

angrymob wrote:

idk wrote: Imo, he has so, so much untapped potential with his linguistics degree, post production masters, his darker sense of humour and appreciation of dark humour(?) etc (maybe I’m biased lol bc I love dark humour but nevertheless)

And for the love of god, make a video about linguistics (biased again lol)

During a IDB linguists meet up on another thread awhile back we discussed Phil and linguistics, and I got the glaringly obvious feeling that he did not enjoy his lingusitic studies much. He's made like 3 mentions of it and they were pretty much all negative.

Wait what was this linguists meet up? Why did I miss it? I'm so sad now.

oqua wrote:

angrymob wrote:

idk wrote: Imo, he has so, so much untapped potential with his linguistics degree, post production masters, his darker sense of humour and appreciation of dark humour(?) etc (maybe I’m biased lol bc I love dark humour but nevertheless)

And for the love of god, make a video about linguistics (biased again lol)

During a IDB linguists meet up on another thread awhile back we discussed Phil and linguistics, and I got the glaringly obvious feeling that he did not enjoy his lingusitic studies much. He's made like 3 mentions of it and they were pretty much all negative.

Wait what was this linguists meet up? Why did I miss it? I'm so sad now.

You were there! It's wasn't a formal meet up, it was just when we took over the Introductions(?) thread for a couple of pages. Maybe we need a linguistics off-topic thread, there's at least 5 of us.

spaceguitar wrote:I've been trying to work out what I don't like so much about Phil. Feel free to skip this post. It is mostly just cathartic for me. I've realized that what I find offputting about him is where we see his moments of insecurity. Like in the chat logs video about how his girlfriend broke up with him, or when he has mentioned being bullied at school. I guess that I don't like his impassive attitude about these things. And this definitely relates back to me and a fear of feeling out of control in my life (personal shit- I've just learned recently that when you have that gut dislike, it often is a reflection on your own unconscious).
Dan definitely shows his insecurity. But then he always seems to be searching for answers. Then he will say things like 'This is the happiest I've been in my life', and I feel good for him. He has moments of real confidence that I really like about him.
I realized this through thinking about how content that I like from Phil is things like DanandPhilCrafts, or his old vids where he either acted more confident or played an interesting character. So I guess that 'manchild' Phil for me is the one who puts himself down or acts really ditzy. I like the image of self-confident Phil, but I don't feel like I ever get to see it.

I've hinted at this being my opinion before, but is it reaching too much to assume that the leaking of the valentine's day video was a major factor into him closing himself up and tightening his persona? Like, we all talk about dan's reaction because he was vocal about it, but I think Phil's silence says much more. If I filmed something that intimate and then it became publicly available, I would definitely alter my image and try to avoid being put into that vulnerable state again.

I get that your argument is a bit more nuanced than what I made it out to be: you are saying you don't like moments where he shows vulnerability and you want to see more examples of him being confident, but I also feel like when you shut yourself off from showing insecurity, or at least act impassive when you recount moments of insecurity, you also, by the "you can't selectively numb emotions" aphorism, can't really display true moments of confidence either. To make it seem like I'm not completely butchering your comment, I bolded the specific wordings that prompted my response.

eevee wrote:Am I the only one who really likes AmazingPhil and doesn't really want him to rebrand? :\ His stuff is cute.

edit: wait let me rephrase. I like Phil's personality and don't want him to change it.

I love Phil's personality as well -- he seems like the kind of guy that I would get along really well with in real life. However, I do think that he could be a bit more mature with his content and still be the same goofy/awkward human that I love.

I was never one to join in on the #busgate or japhan festivities (though lbr i thoroughly enjoy reading it all), so I don't know what brought me to do this, but if you're up for joining me in being mildly creepy.... well...
So, how 'bout that ?

Having a G rated channel does not equal having a children content channel It amazed me that the distinction can't be grasped.

I go to SF for one day and miss a Phil conversation Anyway I don't think Phil fans are defensive and overcompensating when they say they like his persona. I ever got how being silly, nice, avoiding serious topics, and keeping a positive environment equates to "man child". I agree with a lots of points brought up by alittledizzy and danphil333 that Phil's content may not be tumblr #relatable or have a target teen audience but that doesn't automatically make it designed for children. I seem to really appreciate everything Phil comes out with because his videos always phil ( )me with warmth and positivity. He just makes me happy and that's cliche AF but I have been watching his for a long time and he still has held my affections and loyalty because I enjoy what he brings to his videos. I can't pinpoint it specifically except that I really just like him, persona and all, because he comes off as a genuinely nice, polite caring guy and I like knowing men like Phil still exist in this world.

spaceguitar People deal with bullying/insecurities in different ways. I was bullied in middle school and it never reflected onto my confidence as an adult. It's something I've moved on from and something I don't like ever discussing. I feel like with Phil it's the same. He may not be comfortable sharing his deep insecurities on the internet because maybe he hasn't confronted them all on his own. Yes it may make him seem less open but on the other hand he always goes out of his way to make people feel confident in themselves. Watch his live shows and see how he always chooses questions from the chat where people say "I won't be noticed" or "I look so disgusting" and is quick to reassure them that they are not. In his way he is giving them confidence and reassurance and it' s this side of Phil that makes me smile

There come a sense of protectiveness when liking Phil for a long time. Something that has always bothered me about "Dan and Phil" is the imbalance between the two in the phandom and how much of Phil gets lost in it. See any phan blog and it is 70% aestethic/pretty Dan and 30% Phil. Phil is the polite, silly, nice friend that gets quickly written off a boring because he's next to Dan. Dan who is loud and is open to sharing his feelings and emotions. Phil may not be comfortable to share his feeling or his sexuality for that matter but the contrast with Dan is so extreme that it actually becomes an issue where there usually wouldn't be one. I really wish people would discover Phil at their own and see what a wonderful person he is without constantly comparing how different he is from Dan

kuensukki wrote:. I seem to really appreciate everything Phil comes out with because his videos always phil ( )me with warmth and positivity. He just makes me happy and that's cliche AF but I have been watching his for a long time and he still has held my affections and loyalty because I enjoy what he brings to his videos.

I loved everything you said about why you like Phil. I just find him incredibly endearing

About the imbalance between the two: I personally don't really mind the imbalance because there's no reason for them to have to be exactly 50/50. I prefer Phil so I just follow others who prefer Phil as well and I don't notice at all.

A side rant: I find it difficult to explain to non DP fans about why I watch Dan. Sometimes the only thing I can say is that he's cute and British. Sometimes I question why I watch Dan at all, but that's just me feeling grumpy I suppose.