Dan & Phil Part 49: Don't curl, quiff

[idkwhattowrite]

I wonder what he was talking about when he started mentioning about having been asked back to Japan but not being able to go, and then stopped himself and said to ask him in two months. Maybe it's a project that they were asked to join? That they can't talk about until it's released, regardless of their involvement. That could fit together with the thing in March that he said to ask him about later.

[000dia000]

He talked about Yuri On Ice and questioning why they didn't show a kiss on camera, and that was really interesting. He dropped the term queerbaiting, although he didn't say that's what they're doing, he just seemed skeptical.
Also, topped all of this off with a laugh and "please don't take any of this seriously".
That was so interesting, I thought I could see him having all these thoughts about whether what he's saying here will be applied to Phil and him. (I really hope it won't, to me that's very different situations, but I just thought it was sweet to see him being passionate about it but also so very, very tentative).

If he seems quite passionate and indignant about queer baiting (let's be honest-he was definitely referring to YOI, even if he didn't say it outright). If he seems to disappointed and angry at it one would wonder how he would feel about his own involvement? Even if they are in a relationship, and want to keep things private, Dan might still feel self-conscious of how often they are both used as shining examples of this trope.

Like fondsmiles pointed out, I just wonder how guilty he may feel about it? I know some of you here don't believe they're queerbaiting, but many other people beg to differ, and all opinions are loud. Whenever articles or videos on queerbaiting have arisen, deppy have always been given a special shout out, while heir queerbaiting isn't proven, it isn't disproved. It's a complicated subject due to them being real people in a potentially closeted relationship, and even despite that a lot of fingers are pointed at them accusing them of using their fans (well yeah, to an extent, that's what entertainers do). Most recently, former idol Shane was another crushing weight for Dan.

Phil is hard to read, it's difficult to grasp if "queerbaiting" would bother him, he seems to mind his own business and does what he pleases, so wouldn't really care how he is being read. I think Phil can move on, without worrying about the small details. However, Dan seems like the type to really sit back and think about how others see him, and if they are "queerbaiting", even if unintentionally. I think, if Dan has been this outspoken about YOI, he must be quite eaten up by his own guilt. What do other people here think?

(Also, I'm sick of this feminine and fan fiction debate, if I'm being honest. I know a lot of you do want to discuss it, no problem, but I'm side eyeing a lot of really angry posts, teenage girls aren't your enemy.)

[lurker]

He talked about Yuri On Ice and questioning why they didn't show a kiss on camera, and that was really interesting. He dropped the term queerbaiting, although he didn't say that's what they're doing, he just seemed skeptical.

[offtopic]i saw someone on tumblr say that it was stated or implied in an interview that they were actually pressured to censor the kiss like that, does anyone who follows the yoi fandom more closely happen to know if that's right and if yes possibly direct me to the source?[/offtopic]

[onetruetrash]

He talked about Yuri On Ice and questioning why they didn't show a kiss on camera, and that was really interesting. He dropped the term queerbaiting, although he didn't say that's what they're doing, he just seemed skeptical.
Also, topped all of this off with a laugh and "please don't take any of this seriously".
That was so interesting, I thought I could see him having all these thoughts about whether what he's saying here will be applied to Phil and him. (I really hope it won't, to me that's very different situations, but I just thought it was sweet to see him being passionate about it but also so very, very tentative).

If he seems quite passionate and indignant about queer baiting (let's be honest-he was definitely referring to YOI, even if he didn't say it outright). If he seems to disappointed and angry at it one would wonder how he would feel about his own involvement? Even if they are in a relationship, and want to keep things private, Dan might still feel self-conscious of how often they are both used as shining examples of this trope.

Like fondsmiles pointed out, I just wonder how guilty he may feel about it? I know some of you here don't believe they're queerbaiting, but many other people beg to differ, and all opinions are loud. Whenever articles or videos on queerbaiting have arisen, deppy have always been given a special shout out, while heir queerbaiting isn't proven, it isn't disproved. It's a complicated subject due to them being real people in a potentially closeted relationship, and even despite that a lot of fingers are pointed at them accusing them of using their fans (well yeah, to an extent, that's what entertainers do). Most recently, former idol Shane was another crushing weight for Dan.

Phil is hard to read, it's difficult to grasp if "queerbaiting" would bother him, he seems to mind his own business and does what he pleases, so wouldn't really care how he is being read. I think Phil can move on, without worrying about the small details. However, Dan seems like the type to really sit back and think about how others see him, and if they are "queerbaiting", even if unintentionally. I think, if Dan has been this outspoken about YOI, he must be quite eaten up by his own guilt. What do other people here think?

(Also, I'm sick of this feminine and fan fiction debate, if I'm being honest. I know a lot of you do want to discuss it, no problem, but I'm side eyeing a lot of really angry posts, teenage girls aren't your enemy.)

Even if they're not in a relationship, I still think it's absurd to think they're queerbaiting. Dan obviously experiences male attraction and Phil most likely does imo. I've never seen anyone besides Shane accuse them of queerbaiting, but people who actually know anything about them know that's not true. Unless people are just assuming they're straight, which would be their own fault, I don't understand why people would think they're queerbaiting.

[droopy]

That was a pleasant liveshow! He was very funny, but it's interesting to hear his opinions on things.

He also briefly mentioned the Try Guys, but didn't talk about their impressions of him and Phil.

I also want that Thing That Keep Me Emotionally Grounded haul.

The gaming vid sounds interesting. I wonder what it is.

I actually chuckled to myself at that part, it was so obvious why the person in the chat asked about the Try Guys, and then Dan just nonchalantly went, "Yeah, we met them there," and moved to the next topic. 100% blanked the question. (I'm still new to IDB lingo, but is this an appropriate time to use the term "haru"? Still haven't figured out what that means yet.)

[coffeepenguin]

That was an interesting liveshow, but not an eventful one. As always, I didn't take notes, but from what I remember:
- overall, Dan was a bit cranky, which is understandable because jetlag, but also made his reactions more real, I guess, so it didn't bother me
- it did seem like he missed his audience and genuinely wanted to reconnect, it's also a good thing he missed a liveshow before vidcon because today he wasn't bothered as much about the meme video, even he still played it as a joke. I'm looking forward to the next one (even if it's tinder spon, get that piano)
- A+ answer to "you need to smile more" comment (or whatever it was)
- I loved absolutely everything about his plans for DINI and their plans for DAPG, give me that candle haul and six hours long streaming! Appreciate Dan's casual certitude that they will be doing DAPG in two years
- now, for what's really important: I NEED TO REWATCH THE YURI ON ICE TALK AT LEAST TEN TIMES TO PERFECTLY COMMIT IT TO MEMORY. Sorry, I'm still freaking out a bit, I was slapping my leg so intensely, because I needed to express my emotions when Daniel Howell said the word "queerbaiting", I might have injured myself (didn't want to alarm my flatmate by screaming) no, but seriously, it was such a surreal feeling, I needed to share it with somebody right away, hence this post, I would've been more surprised only if he'd said "me and Phil are getting married" actually it would be "me and Phil, *snort* Phil and I, whatever, fuck grammar, are getting married", you know it would I need to rewatch it for real to be able to discuss it, though

[isabella]

He talked about Yuri On Ice and questioning why they didn't show a kiss on camera, and that was really interesting. He dropped the term queerbaiting, although he didn't say that's what they're doing, he just seemed skeptical.
Also, topped all of this off with a laugh and "please don't take any of this seriously".
That was so interesting, I thought I could see him having all these thoughts about whether what he's saying here will be applied to Phil and him. (I really hope it won't, to me that's very different situations, but I just thought it was sweet to see him being passionate about it but also so very, very tentative).

If he seems quite passionate and indignant about queer baiting (let's be honest-he was definitely referring to YOI, even if he didn't say it outright). If he seems to disappointed and angry at it one would wonder how he would feel about his own involvement? Even if they are in a relationship, and want to keep things private, Dan might still feel self-conscious of how often they are both used as shining examples of this trope.

Like fondsmiles pointed out, I just wonder how guilty he may feel about it? I know some of you here don't believe they're queerbaiting, but many other people beg to differ, and all opinions are loud. Whenever articles or videos on queerbaiting have arisen, deppy have always been given a special shout out, while heir queerbaiting isn't proven, it isn't disproved. It's a complicated subject due to them being real people in a potentially closeted relationship, and even despite that a lot of fingers are pointed at them accusing them of using their fans (well yeah, to an extent, that's what entertainers do). Most recently, former idol Shane was another crushing weight for Dan.

Phil is hard to read, it's difficult to grasp if "queerbaiting" would bother him, he seems to mind his own business and does what he pleases, so wouldn't really care how he is being read. I think Phil can move on, without worrying about the small details. However, Dan seems like the type to really sit back and think about how others see him, and if they are "queerbaiting", even if unintentionally. I think, if Dan has been this outspoken about YOI, he must be quite eaten up by his own guilt. What do other people here think?

(Also, I'm sick of this feminine and fan fiction debate, if I'm being honest. I know a lot of you do want to discuss it, no problem, but I'm side eyeing a lot of really angry posts, teenage girls aren't your enemy.)

i don't have much to add but i thought the bolded part was really interesting! it was rare to hear dan discuss queerbaiting like this and i enjoyed hearing his thoughts on it but it does make me wonder what kind of cognitive dissonance he's living with if he does think too critically about how he and phil get brought up in those discussions. i don't think they're queerbaiting either but i think their involvement in the topic cannot be denied whether it's right or wrong.

(also idk which posts you were referring to about teenage girls and fic but i feel the need to apologise anyways in case mine was one that came across like that. i also feel very strongly about teenage girls not being the enemy! everything i said was written from a very psychological/analytical point of view and i didn't intend for any emotional investment in the topic to be read into it haha i just don't enjoy certain tropes myself and i think the reason some tropes are written has to do with who's writing them and it's fascinating to me to think about why things are the way they are because i'm a frickin psychology nerd. )

[Whommel]

- now, for what's really important: I NEED TO REWATCH THE YURI ON ICE TALK AT LEAST TEN TIMES TO PERFECTLY COMMIT IT TO MEMORY. Sorry, I'm still freaking out a bit, I was slapping my leg so intensely, because I needed to express my emotions when Daniel Howell said the word "queerbaiting", I might have injured myself (didn't want to alarm my flatmate by screaming) no, but seriously, it was such a surreal feeling, I needed to share it with somebody right away, hence this post, I would've been more surprised only if he'd said "me and Phil are getting married" actually it would be "me and Phil, *snort* Phil and I, whatever, fuck grammar, are getting married", you know it would I need to rewatch it for real to be able to discuss it, though

I wish I had a recording of my own reaction tbh. I did not expect him to go there, must rewatch too. With all the Shane, Shane, Shane, Shane in the chat a few weeks back that is not a word I thought he would ever take in his mouth. Interesting.

But when I saw Yuri on Ice I knew it wouldn't happen because I'd read it, but I really wish it did. Because representation matters and people are generally far to keen to straightwash everything. Like Dan can keep complimenting guys and admitting attraction, but people still default to straight.
(I'm bi and have personally decided to be as vocal about it as possible.)

[alittledizzy]

Like fondsmiles pointed out, I just wonder how guilty he may feel about it? I know some of you here don't believe they're queerbaiting, but many other people beg to differ, and all opinions are loud. Whenever articles or videos on queerbaiting have arisen, deppy have always been given a special shout out, while heir queerbaiting isn't proven, it isn't disproved. It's a complicated subject due to them being real people in a potentially closeted relationship, and even despite that a lot of fingers are pointed at them accusing them of using their fans (well yeah, to an extent, that's what entertainers do). Most recently, former idol Shane was another crushing weight for Dan.

Phil is hard to read, it's difficult to grasp if "queerbaiting" would bother him, he seems to mind his own business and does what he pleases, so wouldn't really care how he is being read. I think Phil can move on, without worrying about the small details. However, Dan seems like the type to really sit back and think about how others see him, and if they are "queerbaiting", even if unintentionally. I think, if Dan has been this outspoken about YOI, he must be quite eaten up by his own guilt. What do other people here think?

I think Dan himself would (and does) differentiate between real people deserving privacy and not being obligated to be vocal about their sexuality/relationship no matter what kind of representation pedestal fans put them on, and a scripted tv show whose course and endgame are determined by writers with complete control and delivered as a full and complete picture to an audience.

[queerofcups]

(Also, I'm sick of this feminine and fan fiction debate, if I'm being honest. I know a lot of you do want to discuss it, no problem, but I'm side eyeing a lot of really angry posts, teenage girls aren't your enemy.)

true-- but how often do we evade having a conversation about the fucked up fetishizing and misrepresentation of queer people, particularly dudes (and a thousand other fucked up things about fandom), by shrugging and going "but feminism! women and girls desire!"

[Whommel]

Wanted to edit this to my post but apparently can't so just a little thought in a separate post:

Regarding YOI and queerbaiting. I think there is a big difference between a show and the potential for that to make an impact and a persons right to privacy despite how much we want them to represent us and be rolemodels, so I think Dan (and Phil) do a lot just by admitting attraction or even just by using gender neutral words. I don't hold it against them that they aren't more public, they shouldn't have to be.
Even if they should actually be straight I think the ease with which they talk about these things (now) and admit that other guys are hot - and talk about gender too - sets a great example. I'm very happy.

[aleanna]

Haven't gotten to watch the livestream yet, but I wanted to comment on the fanfiction stuff:

I've been reading fanfiction since about 1999. Harry Potter was my first fandom, but 18 years on, I've been all over the place and read just about every type of paring, kink, and trope imaginable. RPF was never super appealing to me (though I did read some Mighty Boosh RPF randomly!), until I stumbled over Hockey RPF a few years ago, and now all bets are off.

I'd been a casual fan of Deppy since about 2012, but I didn't actually read any Phan fiction until a few months ago. I do (mostly) believe that they are together in real life, but I have some cognitive dissonance when it comes to RPF. The characters are AND aren't the people. Like, I really want my RPF to stay accurate to the RL facts, timeline, and characters, but I don't actually internalize any of the fic if that makes any sense)?

Like, I'm a huge fan of continuity and characters actually being in character, but in my mind, fic is still a completely different thing.

I guess a good comparison would to RPF vs. RL would be book vs. movie. I don't get angry when the movie version of a book isn't perfect, because the movie is the movie and the book is still the book. I may not like the changes they made for the movie, but it doesn't ruin the book for me, and I understand why changes need to be made, so I accept the movie version on it's own merit.

I'm pretty sure that I'm just rambling at this point, so I'll stop... (I do love talking about fanfic though!)

[iwishiwasacasual]

i've always just assumed they queerbait and that most of the stuff dan mentions about attraction to guys is mainly just him joking (and plus after years of fans assuming he's attracted to guys and some of their comments have just seeped into his own language, if that makes sense).

although now with him criticising yoi it does make me kind of doubt myself but sometimes people can see other people doing things that the perceive as bad but at the same time can't apply that to their own behaviour.

some of this might just be my own mental gymnastics trying to convince myself that they aren't together though

[masugushoo]

I found this liveshow to be the most interesting dan liveshow of all, especially hearing the word "queerbait" come out of dan's mouth whereas normally he'd be avoiding it with a 10 foot pole stick.

There are people who seem to be quite upset that he thought YOI is queerbaiting, which brings us to think if he and phil is queerbaiting. I am a huge fan of YOI, and in it, the creator does want to show a different kind of love, a love that is not only romantic but encompassing other aspects not traditionally shown. Agape and Eros for example, and about idolatry, about familial love, the whole theme of YOI is about love and different forms of it. Its a great way to look at them from this perspective of "all kinds of love" because dnp from what I can see seem to have this similar kind of relationship that defies the normal type of love too.

In fact, I personally think Viktuuri's case is so similar to DNP that its uncanny, where one idolizes the other, meets the other, gets motivated to achieve their passion and their dream together and now live together. They're described by the author as soulmates, and the kiss apparently can be interpreted however way the audience pleases. The rings are matching promise rings. They're not engaged but rather its a good luck charm to remind them of their goal and of each other. Its really uncanny how similar these things are (dnp with their matching everything and how they let their viewer decide their status)

By refusing to acknowledge Viktuuri's relationship I wonder if he's actually looking out for themselves in the long run? I've always wondered how they felt watching the show, surely they must see some resemblance?

[000dia000]

(Also, I'm sick of this feminine and fan fiction debate, if I'm being honest. I know a lot of you do want to discuss it, no problem, but I'm side eyeing a lot of really angry posts, teenage girls aren't your enemy.)

true-- but how often do we evade having a conversation about the fucked up fetishizing and misrepresentation of queer people, particularly dudes (and a thousand other fucked up things about fandom), by shrugging and going "but feminism! women and girls desire!"

Off Topic:

Not to be dismissive, but IDB has been quite open to these discussions as it is (though that doesn't mean I'm not open to these discussions at all). Also, I was originally going to make a post, expressing this exact criticism of fandom behaviour with fetishizing, then decided not to once I read other people's comments and had a lot of my points covered. My post was quite blunt, so would have been beating a dead horse.

Instead I decided to make a point that sometimes people here are very quick to hate, and dismissing teenage girls, sometimes using any excuse to make points excusing themselves from the "main lot" that is the phandom. (I'm not like "those" people). I suppose I'm biased, I myself am a teenage girl, but I like to at least use the opportunity to make a defense. There are many points both arguing and defending certain aspects of phanfiction and the depiction of femininity of both Dan and Phil. However, I do feel that hateful comments have a tendency to go under the radar, and I don't like that, that was what I was expressing.

[lilMango]

I wonder what he was talking about when he started mentioning about having been asked back to Japan but not being able to go, and then stopped himself and said to ask him in two months. Maybe it's a project that they were asked to join? That they can't talk about until it's released, regardless of their involvement. That could fit together with the thing in March that he said to ask him about later.

Maybe it's a travel opportunity? He was talking about a travel opportunity to Japan right before that, so another offer to travel is the first thing that came to my mind when he stopped himself. It would make sense that he would say no to that, with their busy schedules lately.

(also... +1 to your post, dia)

[onetruetrash]

In fact, I personally think Viktuuri's case is so similar to DNP that its uncanny, where one idolizes the other, meets the other, gets motivated to achieve their passion and their dream together and now live together. They're described by the author as soulmates, and the kiss apparently can be interpreted however way the audience pleases. The rings are matching promise rings. They're not engaged but rather its a good luck charm to remind them of their goal and of each other. Its really uncanny how similar these things are (dnp with their matching everything and how they let their viewer decide their status)

By refusing to acknowledge Viktuuri's relationship I wonder if he's actually looking out for themselves in the long run? I've always wondered how they felt watching the show, surely they must see some resemblance?

I know, it's really weird. Other fans have pointed it out too. Surely Dan and Phil must've noticed. I wonder what they're response would be if someone asked them about it.

Also, since I'm a fellow teenage girls, +1 dia.

[queerofcups]

(Also, I'm sick of this feminine and fan fiction debate, if I'm being honest. I know a lot of you do want to discuss it, no problem, but I'm side eyeing a lot of really angry posts, teenage girls aren't your enemy.)

true-- but how often do we evade having a conversation about the fucked up fetishizing and misrepresentation of queer people, particularly dudes (and a thousand other fucked up things about fandom), by shrugging and going "but feminism! women and girls desire!"

Off Topic:

Not to be dismissive, but IDB has been quite open to these discussions as it is (though that doesn't mean I'm not open to these discussions at all). Also, I was originally going to make a post, expressing this exact criticism of fandom behaviour with fetishizing, then decided not to once I read other people's comments and had a lot of my points covered. My post was quite blunt, so would have been beating a dead horse.

Instead I decided to make a point that sometimes people here are very quick to hate, and dismissing teenage girls, sometimes using any excuse to make points excusing themselves from the "main lot" that is the phandom. (I'm not like "those" people). I suppose I'm biased, I myself am a teenage girl, but I like to at least use the opportunity to make a defense. There are many points both arguing and defending certain aspects of phanfiction and the depiction of femininity of both Dan and Phil. However, I do feel that hateful comments have a tendency to go under the radar, and I don't like that, that was what I was expressing.

that's fine, you're likely right about both idb being open to that conversation and i would agree about negative commentary about teen girls going uncommented upon. i've just also seen a lot (a lot) of conversations that might have gotten somewhere about fandom and the ways it treats actual queer relationships derailed into really masturbatory celebrations of how ~progressive fandom is for fandom to center women's desire as if that overrides any potential problematicness. which is what your comment reminded me of, hence the comment.

[malday]

Like fondsmiles pointed out, I just wonder how guilty he may feel about it? I know some of you here don't believe they're queerbaiting, but many other people beg to differ, and all opinions are loud. Whenever articles or videos on queerbaiting have arisen, deppy have always been given a special shout out, while heir queerbaiting isn't proven, it isn't disproved. It's a complicated subject due to them being real people in a potentially closeted relationship, and even despite that a lot of fingers are pointed at them accusing them of using their fans (well yeah, to an extent, that's what entertainers do). Most recently, former idol Shane was another crushing weight for Dan.

Phil is hard to read, it's difficult to grasp if "queerbaiting" would bother him, he seems to mind his own business and does what he pleases, so wouldn't really care how he is being read. I think Phil can move on, without worrying about the small details. However, Dan seems like the type to really sit back and think about how others see him, and if they are "queerbaiting", even if unintentionally. I think, if Dan has been this outspoken about YOI, he must be quite eaten up by his own guilt. What do other people here think?

I don't think he feels guilty at all, because the people who really think they are queerbaiting are people whose opinions shouldn't really matter to him in the first place.

And they are flooded with comments calling them f*ggots whenever one of their videos trends, so that should cancel out any accusation of queerbating they might receive.

His remark about the comments on Phil's hair curling video not being that terrible despite it trending was interesting. He was probably expecting even more homophobic slurs just because of the video's subject matter.

[alittledizzy]

i've always just assumed they queerbait and that most of the stuff dan mentions about attraction to guys is mainly just him joking (and plus after years of fans assuming he's attracted to guys and some of their comments have just seeped into his own language, if that makes sense).

although now with him criticising yoi it does make me kind of doubt myself but sometimes people can see other people doing things that the perceive as bad but at the same time can't apply that to their own behaviour.

some of this might just be my own mental gymnastics trying to convince myself that they aren't together though

This just makes me really sad to read. (Sad for Dan, sad for anyone who has their sexuality erased for no real reason when they've been pretty clear on not being straight.)

By refusing to acknowledge Viktuuri's relationship I wonder if he's actually looking out for themselves in the long run? I've always wondered how they felt watching the show, surely they must see some resemblance?

I didn't interpret Dan's comment as refusing to accept the relationship so much as him being wary of the intentions of the show creators, and disappointed that there wasn't more shown explicitly onscreen. Because it's a fictional show and the direction is entirely within the hands of writers it's less a care of 'are they/aren't they' and more a case of 'if they are, why didn't you show it?' which is a reasonable question for a fictional show, and not at all a reasonable one for two actual human beings with lives that continue to go on even when a video is over or we turn away from the screen.

[uglyamerican]

Baby Driver: Two words: Ansel Elgort. That is all.

[aleanna]

I didn't interpret Dan's comment as refusing to accept the relationship so much as him being wary of the intentions of the show creators, and disappointed that there wasn't more shown explicitly onscreen. Because it's a fictional show and the direction is entirely within the hands of writers it's less a care of 'are they/aren't they' and more a case of 'if they are, why didn't you show it?' which is a reasonable question for a fictional show, and not at all a reasonable one for two actual human beings with lives that continue to go on even when a video is over or we turn away from the screen.

[/quote]

This. My take on YOI is that the show is about love, but not about romance. Yes, there is a romance happening, but it's not the most important part of Viktor or Yuri's life. It's a private thing that matters to them, and the audience gets to see the bits and pieces that are relevant to their character growth and the skating storyline. I actually find it really interesting, especially when compared to the m/m relationships shown in most yaoi (which is uncomfortable, unrealistic, and filled with SO. MANY. CONSENT. ISSUES!!!)

I think that it's an interesting concept to see for an m/m relationship on a fictional show, because most of the time it is a BIG DEAL or a STATEMENT if the storyline/romance is gay. It's nice to see it just be a kind of nonchalant, accepted plotline, but not the main point of YOI.

[Birdie]

(Supporting teenaged girls and their passions does not mean you aren’t allowed to call out their problematic behaviour now and then. I’m absolutely here for teen girls and all their great potential but they can do some fucked up stuff and we shouldn’t ignore that.)

I think this discussion is interesting and important actually. I don’t read phanfiction at all and I’m not planning to but I’ve seen this brought up in the phandom and in other fandoms as well and I think it’s a general problem, straight authors (not just teenaged girls) writing queer relationships and applying heteronormative stereotypes to them. Needless to say, it’s harmful. Criticising these kinds of stories, especially the ones that also fetishise queer people in the process, is absolutely important, no matter how many times it’s been done before. Portraying one guy as feminine and the other guy as masculine plays into a whole lot of harmful tropes and I don’t blame teenaged writers for not knowing any better but it still needs to be talked about to educate people on why it’s wrong and hurtful.

YOI: His insinuation of queerbaiting kinda irked me because as far as I know the creators just couldn’t make it more obvious or they would have - Japanese television works differently and you can only imply gay kisses or it gets censored. This time, the creators did not have full power over this. They wanted to confirm Victuuri and they did as best they could.

YOI is absolutely not queerbaiting. It stayed far away from the usual yaoi cliches and the relationship is made obvious, even if they didn’t show the kiss in detail. Like… Yuuri said he loved Victor, they’re together, they’re clearly affectionate with each other, they’re getting married. How much more obvious does it have to be? Is a romantic relationship only valid if people kiss on screen? Is romance all about the physical stuff? Nah, it's not. I think Yuuri's confession of love is way more important here than any kiss, let alone the freaking engagement rings they're wearing. (Also, they absolutely did kiss, even if they had to censor it a bit. I think it's still pretty obvious.) If Dan wants to talk about queerbaiting in anime, why can’t he talk about his volleyball or swimming animes (whatever they’re called, I’m too tired to look it up) instead of YOI, like really. That’s queerbaiting, Dan. YOI is not.

[masugushoo]

That's some really interesting answers, I totally agree with the whole its a fictional universe so why dont they show it more? it does albeit sound like he's a little ignorant about the whole conservative country Japan obviously not allowing homosexuality even in their regular animes (yoi was never categorized as a yaoi anime) but other than that it does make sense for him to think that way. (after all he only knows a few mainstream animes and yoi completely breaks all the stereotypes)

Yes, there is a romance happening, but it's not the most important part of Viktor or Yuri's life. It's a private thing that matters to them, and the audience gets to see the bits and pieces that are relevant to their character growth and the skating storyline.

This definitely sounds familiar if you put it into another context as well haha!

[aleanna]

Yes, there is a romance happening, but it's not the most important part of Viktor or Yuri's life. It's a private thing that matters to them, and the audience gets to see the bits and pieces that are relevant to their character growth and the skating storyline.

This definitely sounds familiar if you put it into another context as well haha!

I didn't even notice that when I was writing that post, but I totally see it now! lol