Dan & Phil Part 2: lol bye gg

[SquishPhan]

Saying that, I don’t completely think that his AP persona is manufactured. I think that too is a side of him, just over exaggerated. After all, people have many layers and are not just one sided. I do think that he likes animals, mismatched socks and some more ‘childish’ things, but at the same time have a very dark sense of humor. I wish I could all explain my thoughts more eloquently, but this will have to do.

Absolutely agree. I don't think anything about either of their on-screen personalities is completely manufactured. That's kind of what I meant by Phil having taken what people responded to most, particularly when he was with Dan, and whittling AmazingPhil down into an amalgamation of those things - most of which happened to be the brighter, positive parts of him that stood out most in counterpart to Dan's whole tumblr-dark-edgy-aesthetic vibe. People like the ying yang thing, they like opposites attracting.

Totally agree. I think we are on the same page here.

[aosagi]

It's mid workday for me so this will not actually be an essay, but the bullet points of it: I think Phil is really good at analyzing situations and has a pretty keen business oriented mind, which means at some point fairly early on in his and Dan's rise he was clever enough to note what was making other youtubers popular and realize that his sense of humor fit into much more of a niche than a mainstream appeal. But I think he also realized that collaborations with Dan did have that mainstream appeal, because Dan - for all that he was drawn to Phil's weirdness - is just not weird in the same way and he tempers that in Phil.

So Phil seems to have taken the things that fans responsed to most when he was with Dan and rebranded (*heh crafts) AmazingPhil with that in mind, years and years ago. People respond to quirky-sidekick, they respond to his optimism in the face of Dan's existential crisis persona. Phil is the guy who reads Stephen King and horror movies, who made dark/psychotic horror videos for fun, who won a game of Cards Against Humanity against a room full of youtubers - I think his non-persona humor is a lot more close to Dan's persona-humor and it would be a really weird balance for them to be too similar on camera. I think people be unsettled by too much of that. Right now the gaming videos are sort of a halfway limbo point but it only works when Dan meets him halfway by being less dinof, too. People don't like it when things stay the same for too long, but they're also terrified of too much change.

And as for as AmazingPhil solo: I think he just knows that he can't be more of himself on camera and retain the audience, and I think he's right. I think the real Phil would be too random, too odd, too weird in a not polished way that people would expect from him. He's not quite good enough to be famous for being offbeat but he's too offbeat to be mainstream while still acting himself. People want him to be sunshine and sweetness with an occasional innuendo, they just want to believe more that it's real. I don't think he will outright rebrand unless he leaves youtube, I just think he'll (eventually) tone down the parts of the AP schtick that seem too obvious and hope people are happy with that.

Also I was going to talk about this but then I never really got around to that point and I need to get back to work, but I love it so I'm sticking it here anyway.

Thanks that was an interesting read. I always enjoy reading opinions about Phil's personality, because I can't quite wrap my head around it.

I never understood it when people said, his AP persona was manufactured. His weirdness/randomness seems honest to me, just a little bit exaggerated in videos. But the explanation that he polished that part to make it more 'mainstream' or suitable to Dans persona does seem plausible.

[disenchanted]

Hi everyone!
I lurked on gg for months and then followed you guys here - sorry does that sound too creepy - and I just wanted to say I think you are all so funny and I thoroughly enjoy reading all your posts I don't post much (if at all) because I rarely have anything valuable to contribute.. but the forum was a part of my daily routine and I'm so glad there's this new forum now!

I wasn't expecting the craft video at all. I liked last years better but this one still made me literally LOL.

[rizzo]

It's mid workday for me so this will not actually be an essay, but the bullet points of it: I think Phil is really good at analyzing situations and has a pretty keen business oriented mind, which means at some point fairly early on in his and Dan's rise he was clever enough to note what was making other youtubers popular and realize that his sense of humor fit into much more of a niche than a mainstream appeal. But I think he also realized that collaborations with Dan did have that mainstream appeal, because Dan - for all that he was drawn to Phil's weirdness - is just not weird in the same way and he tempers that in Phil.

So Phil seems to have taken the things that fans responsed to most when he was with Dan and rebranded (*heh crafts) AmazingPhil with that in mind, years and years ago. People respond to quirky-sidekick, they respond to his optimism in the face of Dan's existential crisis persona. Phil is the guy who reads Stephen King and horror movies, who made dark/psychotic horror videos for fun, who won a game of Cards Against Humanity against a room full of youtubers - I think his non-persona humor is a lot more close to Dan's persona-humor and it would be a really weird balance for them to be too similar on camera. I think people be unsettled by too much of that. Right now the gaming videos are sort of a halfway limbo point but it only works when Dan meets him halfway by being less dinof, too. People don't like it when things stay the same for too long, but they're also terrified of too much change.

And as for as AmazingPhil solo: I think he just knows that he can't be more of himself on camera and retain the audience, and I think he's right. I think the real Phil would be too random, too odd, too weird in a not polished way that people would expect from him. He's not quite good enough to be famous for being offbeat but he's too offbeat to be mainstream while still acting himself. People want him to be sunshine and sweetness with an occasional innuendo, they just want to believe more that it's real. I don't think he will outright rebrand unless he leaves youtube, I just think he'll (eventually) tone down the parts of the AP schtick that seem too obvious and hope people are happy with that.

Also I was going to talk about this but then I never really got around to that point and I need to get back to work, but I love it so I'm sticking it here anyway.

ugh. alittledizzy. i just want to put it out there that literally everything you write is gold.

this whole post summarizes what i find comforting in phil. in those moments when i get frustrated with his children's-show persona, i remind myself of the cards against humanity win and how others so often point out how similar he and dan are irl. that formspring answer is especially great and damn if i'm not thankful of the gaming channel for giving us just a bit more phil.

the guy is really damn smart. not only because he's realized his "role" on youtube and has kept up a growing audience in doing so, but in the overall image he puts out there (for himself, and even for Dan). how we can't read phil. how dan runs everything down to his tweets by phil. frankly, phil's practically the mastermind behind this whole endeavour. and damn do i want to get to know that phil.

[kuensukki]

IN a way Phil dommed himself to be forever Dan's sidekick by subverting his own persona.

Good stuff .

This!! I always wondered this. For those who liked Phil first and knew him before Dan, Dan always seemed like the intruder that took over Phil and his fame.I remember seeing it like that and being salty over Dan's fame above Phil's but then I grew up and realized there was a reason for Dan's explosion on popularity. Dan is essentially a poster child for every person who deals with anxiety, insecurities, and self-doubt. He really is the relatable persona and his content reflects that. Yes, it may not be all genuine and yes a lot of his fame was made off tumblr and Phil giving his a head start but the crux of DINOF is really substantial. He had created someone for the masses, someone who would have a devoted following and I think a part of Phil realized that. Why not create something of the complete opposite to contrast this and BAM! phan was created. DINOF was the aggressive persona that was loud so Phil realized the more optimistic silly weird manchild would complement that perfectly. And it works for the most part. It helps them retain the friendship image as well as make their brand more mainstream. Every successful duo has a one loud person and then the silly counterpart and they have acheived that. Yes I'm a little mad that Phil reverted to this but I also am old enough and mature enough to realize that Phil has benefited from this greatly. Their success stems on their phan persona- radio shows, hosting gigs so they have to play the part.

[DryCereal]

It's mid workday for me so this will not actually be an essay, but the bullet points of it: I think Phil is really good at analyzing situations and has a pretty keen business oriented mind, which means at some point fairly early on in his and Dan's rise he was clever enough to note what was making other youtubers popular and realize that his sense of humor fit into much more of a niche than a mainstream appeal. But I think he also realized that collaborations with Dan did have that mainstream appeal, because Dan - for all that he was drawn to Phil's weirdness - is just not weird in the same way and he tempers that in Phil.

So Phil seems to have taken the things that fans responsed to most when he was with Dan and rebranded (*heh crafts) AmazingPhil with that in mind, years and years ago. People respond to quirky-sidekick, they respond to his optimism in the face of Dan's existential crisis persona. Phil is the guy who reads Stephen King and horror movies, who made dark/psychotic horror videos for fun, who won a game of Cards Against Humanity against a room full of youtubers - I think his non-persona humor is a lot more close to Dan's persona-humor and it would be a really weird balance for them to be too similar on camera. I think people be unsettled by too much of that. Right now the gaming videos are sort of a halfway limbo point but it only works when Dan meets him halfway by being less dinof, too. People don't like it when things stay the same for too long, but they're also terrified of too much change.

And as for as AmazingPhil solo: I think he just knows that he can't be more of himself on camera and retain the audience, and I think he's right. I think the real Phil would be too random, too odd, too weird in a not polished way that people would expect from him. He's not quite good enough to be famous for being offbeat but he's too offbeat to be mainstream while still acting himself. People want him to be sunshine and sweetness with an occasional innuendo, they just want to believe more that it's real. I don't think he will outright rebrand unless he leaves youtube, I just think he'll (eventually) tone down the parts of the AP schtick that seem too obvious and hope people are happy with that.

Also I was going to talk about this but then I never really got around to that point and I need to get back to work, but I love it so I'm sticking it here anyway.

ugh. alittledizzy. i just want to put it out there that literally everything you write is gold.

this whole post summarizes what i find comforting in phil. in those moments when i get frustrated with his children's-show persona, i remind myself of the cards against humanity win and how others so often point out how similar he and dan are irl. that formspring answer is especially great and damn if i'm not thankful of the gaming channel for giving us just a bit more phil.

the guy is really damn smart. not only because he's realized his "role" on youtube and has kept up a growing audience in doing so, but in the overall image he puts out there (for himself, and even for Dan). how we can't read phil. how dan runs everything down to his tweets by phil. frankly, phil's practically the mastermind behind this whole endeavour. and damn do i want to get to know that phil.

This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and THIS!!!! All of it.

Sometimes I feel like Dan hides behind a hedge. Occasionally you'll see or hear Dan, as opposed to DINOF, whereas Phil is behind a brick wall, but will occasionally climb on top, throw things and sit there laughing at us for a bit before hopping back down. My analogies need work, but it makes sense in my head.

[momo]

am i the only one who gets ever so slightly turned on by this different, more controlling, darker-humoured side of phil and yet also slightly turned off by the cutesy, awkward one-joke-liner phil too? i hate to admit it but damn everytime he aggressively snaps those scissors...

[coffee pig]

I agree with this so much. I remember making a post about Phil on GG and I posed the question if Phil did rebrand and show his true personality what videos could he make? No one really responded and that's because there is no response. There is not a video style that would be able to encapsulate Phil in all his strange glory and still be mainstream and popular, It just doesn't fit with today's audience.

I completely agree with everything you've said here, and it makes me a bit sad.
I subscribed to Phil a long time ago, in 2008 or 2009 and I loved the early style of his videos― they were similar to PJ's in a way, except Phil's sense of humor was a bit darker. I admittedly had a bit of a crush, something else Dan and I had in common.
I feel like PJ is like the kind of YouTuber Phil could have been if he hadn't rebranded himself. If we're looking purely at mainstream success, though, Phil has 3 million subscribers compared to PJ's less than 900,000 some subscribers.

I feel like I should put up some links for those of you haven't seen Phil in all of his pre-Dan weirdness:

The Basket (my personal favorite)



Tape 6


Jack- a story from the past



All of the comments on Phil's old videos are like 'was fetus Phil on drugs?' haha. You should also check out his old music videos and interactive adventures. Anyway, I'm getting sad and nostalgic bye

[madmadmad]

(blablabla nice to meet you blablabla)

I was pleasantly surprised by the new video. I face palmed so hard when I saw the title, but I guess I have to swallow my initial bad reaction. Personally I thought the editing was top-notch (in the humorous sense). Just the little details in how they've cut the videos at some places and the timing of some of the jokes and the too-long pauses just makes the pace of the video so funny. And I do like the creepiness of it all.

Though I feel like the most interesting thing about the craft videos (both this one and the first one) is the way Phil acts in them. Phil is just constantly surprising me. Because the thing with Phil is that he's just such a mystery. I have never understood him and probably never will because he keeps showing different sides of him and changing my perspective on his personality all the time. Even just comparing different videos from this and last year, like his collab with PJ or the craft videos, he sometimes acts like a completely different person. I mean, everyone acts different depending on who they're with or what they're doing, but I feel like Phil does not show enough of the sides of him where he is not acting compared to Dan who I personally feel shows a lot more of his true emotions and thoughts and mannerisms. I think this makes it hard for people to get an overview on what kind of person he is and use that fundamental grip on his character to conclude if he is acting or not in different situations. Whereas in Dan's case, while I cannot claim to know what he is like in real life, I feel like because it is easier to "summarise" his personality in your head, it is also easier to see through his acting. For these reasons I just find it hard to determine what Phil can and cannot do and what kind of youtuber he could have become if he had wanted to and such. Has he changed? Is he deliberately acting a certain way? Does he even care? Who knows? I don't.

[Cora]

am i the only one who gets ever so slightly turned on by this different, more controlling, darker-humoured side of phil and yet also slightly turned off by the cutesy, awkward one-joke-liner phil too? i hate to admit it but damn everytime he aggressively snaps those scissors...

Nah, I'm with you.
He's so cutesy all the time with his little squeezey eyes and animal noises, that when he gets dark I'm like "...ohhh...OOHHH....hello there..."


...but I'm attracted to sociopaths, so my input may not be what you want.

[kusunoki masashige]

Saying that, I don’t completely think that his AP persona is manufactured. I think that too is a side of him, just over exaggerated. After all, people have many layers and are not just one sided. I do think that he likes animals, mismatched socks and some more ‘childish’ things, but at the same time have a very dark sense of humor. I wish I could all explain my thoughts more eloquently, but this will have to do.

Absolutely agree. I don't think anything about either of their on-screen personalities is completely manufactured. That's kind of what I meant by Phil having taken what people responded to most, particularly when he was with Dan, and whittling AmazingPhil down into an amalgamation of those things - most of which happened to be the brighter, positive parts of him that stood out most in counterpart to Dan's whole tumblr-dark-edgy-aesthetic vibe. People like the ying yang thing, they like opposites attracting.

That's how I see him, too (not quoting alittledizzys great little essay so this won't get too big). As it was mentioned before, there are quite a lot of comments of current phandom members on his old vids saying they think he's creepy or sth. He had to change this side of AP to appeal to an audience big enough for him to be able to really make a living of youtube.

I agree with this so much. I remember making a post about Phil on GG and I posed the question if Phil did rebrand and show his true personality what videos could he make? No one really responded and that's because there is no response. There is not a video style that would be able to encapsulate Phil in all his strange glory and still be mainstream and popular, It just doesn't fit with today's audience.
…

One thing that makes me apreciate and respect Phil is that he changed his content but remained unique in that change. He still remained a little strange and a little different We might all hate AP because he doesn't seem real or genuine and because we know the great contrast of the persona to Phil Lester but we have to appreciate that he never compromised it for popularity.

I subscribed to Phil a long time ago, in 2008 or 2009 and I loved the early style of his videos― they were similar to PJ's in a way, except Phil's sense of humor was a bit darker. I admittedly had a bit of a crush, something else Dan and I had in common.
I feel like PJ is like the kind of YouTuber Phil could have been if he hadn't rebranded himself. If we're looking purely at mainstream success, though, Phil has 3 million subscribers compared to PJ's less than 900,000 some subscribers.

PJ is somebody who has a weird, unusual sense of humour sometimes, but his videos are visually very polished, very filmmakery and just pretty to look at, and I think Phil has never shown an interest in having perfect looking videos. And I actually don't think PJ gets enough views to be able to be able to make a living from youtube views alone.
There really aren't any successful youtubers who could be compared to oldschool Phil, are there?

And just like alittledizzy and SquishPhan said, I don't really think nowadays AP and Phil Lester are so different, he just toned some parts of himself down, exaggerated other ones…and from what I've seen of his old vids I don't get the feeling I'm seeing a different person compared to his new videos.

DAPC-vid: It was funny, but I think they should have left it as a one-off thing. Last year was perfect, I think they couldn't have done anything to top it. A DAPBeauty-vid would have just been a poor copy of last year as well. That being said, I've seen a lot of people on twitter expecting something, so I guess they felt compelled to do something.

Did any of the other youtubers do something funny?

[kooshka]

am i the only one who gets ever so slightly turned on by this different, more controlling, darker-humoured side of phil and yet also slightly turned off by the cutesy, awkward one-joke-liner phil too? i hate to admit it but damn everytime he aggressively snaps those scissors...

Nah, I'm with you.
He's so cutesy all the time with his little squeezey eyes and animal noises, that when he gets dark I'm like "...ohhh...OOHHH....hello there..."

Yasss I'm in the same boat, normally Phil's sex appeal is nonexistent for me (his child-like persona on camera is a bit off-putting if we're talking about attraction), but this Phil I like. The glasses helped a bit too. It's too bad we don't get to see this side too often, I've been rewatching the vid for a few times now and honestly I'm mostly just concentrating on Phil, while normally I'd be more interested in Dan (he actually seems a bit boring in comparison.).

[Anonymousse]

am i the only one who gets ever so slightly turned on by this different, more controlling, darker-humoured side of phil and yet also slightly turned off by the cutesy, awkward one-joke-liner phil too? i hate to admit it but damn everytime he aggressively snaps those scissors...

Nah, I'm with you.
He's so cutesy all the time with his little squeezey eyes and animal noises, that when he gets dark I'm like "...ohhh...OOHHH....hello there..."


...but I'm attracted to sociopaths, so my input may not be what you want.

That goes super well with your avatar

[Pistachiyo]

I appreciated that there was only one craft video. In a way another one kind of ruined the joke. They should have made an entirely new channel with a different theme. But this was easier to come up with I guess. I thought it was funny enough regardless (The pentagram was the best part).

[Cora]

am i the only one who gets ever so slightly turned on by this different, more controlling, darker-humoured side of phil and yet also slightly turned off by the cutesy, awkward one-joke-liner phil too? i hate to admit it but damn everytime he aggressively snaps those scissors...

Nah, I'm with you.
He's so cutesy all the time with his little squeezey eyes and animal noises, that when he gets dark I'm like "...ohhh...OOHHH....hello there..."


...but I'm attracted to sociopaths, so my input may not be what you want.

That goes super well with your avatar

[ironic]

Idk if it was mentioned before but I just realised we kind of could've expect today's Crafts video because of Phil's tweet from last year:

So was this planned all along or what? wow

[momo]

...but I'm attracted to sociopaths, so my input may not be what you want.

nope, I can safely say your kind of input is greatly needed in this normal world (sociopaths are v attractive let alone psychopaths, god i'm so messed up.)

[alittledizzy]

ugh. alittledizzy. i just want to put it out there that literally everything you write is gold.

this whole post summarizes what i find comforting in phil. in those moments when i get frustrated with his children's-show persona, i remind myself of the cards against humanity win and how others so often point out how similar he and dan are irl. that formspring answer is especially great and damn if i'm not thankful of the gaming channel for giving us just a bit more phil.

the guy is really damn smart. not only because he's realized his "role" on youtube and has kept up a growing audience in doing so, but in the overall image he puts out there (for himself, and even for Dan). how we can't read phil. how dan runs everything down to his tweets by phil. frankly, phil's practically the mastermind behind this whole endeavour. and damn do i want to get to know that phil.

This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and THIS!!!! All of it.

Sometimes I feel like Dan hides behind a hedge. Occasionally you'll see or hear Dan, as opposed to DINOF, whereas Phil is behind a brick wall, but will occasionally climb on top, throw things and sit there laughing at us for a bit before hopping back down. My analogies need work, but it makes sense in my head.

(I kept that post of mine away from the whole phan/relationship angle on purpose, so if you want the objective non-shipping POV then stick with that and don't read on here.)

Both of them made their youtube images from existing parts of themselves but I think the line between what "Dan" would talk about on camera and what "danisnotonfire" would talk about is much, much closer to the difference in what you'd hear as random conversation from "Phil" and "AmazingPhil." It's a personal shield, and one reason I think Phil is comfortable with AP. It allows him that distance between what is private and what is for public consumption, which is really handy when you have a relationship you want to, like... keep private.

[DryCereal]

ugh. alittledizzy. i just want to put it out there that literally everything you write is gold.

this whole post summarizes what i find comforting in phil. in those moments when i get frustrated with his children's-show persona, i remind myself of the cards against humanity win and how others so often point out how similar he and dan are irl. that formspring answer is especially great and damn if i'm not thankful of the gaming channel for giving us just a bit more phil.

the guy is really damn smart. not only because he's realized his "role" on youtube and has kept up a growing audience in doing so, but in the overall image he puts out there (for himself, and even for Dan). how we can't read phil. how dan runs everything down to his tweets by phil. frankly, phil's practically the mastermind behind this whole endeavour. and damn do i want to get to know that phil.

This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and THIS!!!! All of it.

Sometimes I feel like Dan hides behind a hedge. Occasionally you'll see or hear Dan, as opposed to DINOF, whereas Phil is behind a brick wall, but will occasionally climb on top, throw things and sit there laughing at us for a bit before hopping back down. My analogies need work, but it makes sense in my head.

(I kept that post of mine away from the whole phan/relationship angle on purpose, so if you want the objective non-shipping POV then stick with that and don't read on here.)

Both of them made their youtube images from existing parts of themselves but I think the line between what "Dan" would talk about on camera and what "danisnotonfire" would talk about is much, much closer to the difference in what you'd hear as random conversation from "Phil" and "AmazingPhil." It's a personal shield, and one reason I think Phil is comfortable with AP. It allows him that distance between what is private and what is for public consumption, which is really handy when you have a relationship you want to, like... keep private.

Agree 100% with that.

Oh god when they poured the glitter on the table with no tablecloth on it. They'll be covered in it forever!.

They're NEVER getting that deposit back from the landlord now, are they?!
Still covered in silver glitter from earlier. Me, crafting? Noooooo....!!!

[momo]

dan and phil + glitter is never a good thing in any circumstances, let alone with glue and thick carpet involved.

[swofro]

Idk if it was mentioned before but I just realised we kind of could've expect today's Crafts video because of Phil's tweet from last year:

So was this planned all along or what? wow

They are illuminati

[Starlighthugs]

I absolutely LOVED the crafts video. I had to stop myself from laughing out loud several times so I didn't look stupid to my parents, laughing at nothing! I agree with what some people have been saying about it would be nice for them to just leave it at one video, but on the other hand I loved the video so I can't say I'm disappointed at all!

[offtopic]I completely fail at quoting people, I've tried a few times now but I always delete my posts before I post them because the quotes never work. Could someone PM me with some advice?[/offtopic]

[Anonymousse]

Idk if it was mentioned before but I just realised we kind of could've expect today's Crafts video because of Phil's tweet from last year:

So was this planned all along or what? wow

To be honest, knowing this has made the video even better for me.

They probably anticipated making the video a year before making it/it came out.

I wonder what else to they have in their "to film" list...

[SquishPhan]

Idk if it was mentioned before but I just realised we kind of could've expect today's Crafts video because of Phil's tweet from last year:

So was this planned all along or what? wow

To be honest, knowing this has made the video even better for me.

They probably anticipated making the video a year before making it/it came out.

I wonder what else to they have in their "to film" list...

I agree, this does make it better. They are sneaky little shits, and I love it.

[daichii]

The video made me laugh, but they should have left the joke alone. It was great as it was.
I do understand that the real joke is to annoy people with yet another craft vid and fill up all comments on yt with "don't cry craft" but this was just not that funny (and it was bound to be, the first vid was just too good). But well, it goes with Dan's humour of annoying people with the same joke over and over and over again (just like the everywhere thing on the vid) which is not really my type of humour.

I'll stop being bitter about it and talk about what I liked, I think Phil killed it as well. I enjoy how much in character he gets with the whole thing. The left handed part made me laugh so much and ngl the funniest thing about these craft videos is that there are actually "serious" youtube videos out there that are totally like theirs. Just the other day I watched an old video from a beauty guru and I was cry laughing the whole way because it was so like the squareflakes one, only she was not joking about it. Also, Phil in glasses

I like alll the posts about Phil! It was really nice to read them all, I agree that he rightfully saw that his old yt vids would not really get him to be mainstream and in a way, like it or not, Phil has always wanted massive success (which is why he signed up for contests, commercials, etc.) so those were good business moves.

As well, I feel like he might have realized how many creepy people his former style attracted. Sometimes I do wonder how many creepy things he might have received through the mail/email that perhaps made him choose to tone things down in a way to avoid that because he could have removed the weirdness but left the flirtiness in.

ironic That improves things a bit. I ship phenna so much fakephan I so wish they would collab one day....