IDB

sapienveneficus wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:16 pm I've bolded the section I want to respond to. I've been mulling over my reaction to Phil's video for a bit, and I think I've figured out what isn't working. Basically, going forward, I think he needs to be making two kinds of videos on his main channel.

Light-Hearted Collabs

Phil has done a few silly solo vids in the past (shout out to eBay mystery boxes, a personal favorite) but his brand of zany works better when he has someone to play off of. It should be Dan, but in this interim where the Lord of Darkness seems to have devoted himself fully to video games and jogging, Phil needs to find stand ins. I'm sure we all have a list of YouTubers we've been dying to see Phil work with (Safiya Nygaard's at the top of my list; who's on yours?). This hiatus is the perfect opportunity for Phil to start checking those creators off his list.

Will the real Phil Lester please step forward

When he's not filming silly collabs, I want to see Phil use his platform to get real. I want him to tell personal stories about his high school days, his college days, his post-college days, whatever. I want to know more about Phil, and I don't think I'm alone in that. Both he and Dan have built this passionate fanbase over the past decade, and that fanbase is tuning in/hanging around for them, Dan Howell and Phil Lester. Fans want to know more about them. Heck, you know we'd all watch a 20 minute in-depth discussion about Phil's sock collection if he genuinely told us why he loves fun socks and the stories behind some of the pairs he's purchased over the years. Why? Because we care about Phil Lester and we want to know more about him. This is Phil's opportunity to share with his audience a little more about himself, and I think he's wasting it.

The Weakest Link video didn't work for me because it wasn't personal. His act of pretending to guess his old answers was inauthentic. Phil can't coast on that sort of content anymore because his audience is too savvy. They're older, they've been around for a long time, and they want more. I think this video could have worked if he'd told us the story of trying out for the Weakest Link, what it was actually like being on the show, and what his friends and family actually thought afterwards. He could have shown a clip or two, but the focus of the video should have been Phil's thoughts and experiences, not the game show.

Spot on analysis, I wasn't able to pinpoint exactly what was that wasn't working for me until I read this. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

And aside from collabs and getting real I'd love to see him go back to his experimental phase and produce some short films or idk even a webseries on his channel, he has such a creative mind and sometimes I feel that in these type of videos like TWL that potential is going to waste (even though I liked the video nonetheless cause I really needed some lighthearted entertainment) and that could also attract new fans too. Exploit that brilliant, weird mind of yours, Mr. Amazing!

I agree, I'd like to see weird/creative/experimental Phil again

sapienveneficus wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:16 pmWill the real Phil Lester please step forward

When he's not filming silly collabs, I want to see Phil use his platform to get real. I want him to tell personal stories about his high school days, his college days, his post-college days, whatever. I want to know more about Phil, and I don't think I'm alone in that. Both he and Dan have built this passionate fanbase over the past decade, and that fanbase is tuning in/hanging around for them, Dan Howell and Phil Lester. Fans want to know more about them. Heck, you know we'd all watch a 20 minute in-depth discussion about Phil's sock collection if he genuinely told us why he loves fun socks and the stories behind some of the pairs he's purchased over the years. Why? Because we care about Phil Lester and we want to know more about him. This is Phil's opportunity to share with his audience a little more about himself, and I think he's wasting it.

The problem with that is just that... it doesn't actually matter what we want or if we think he's wasting an opportunity if that isn't actually what Phil is interested in or enjoys making. Not everyone enjoys getting deep and revealing themselves to the camera, and I think it's more than understandable for Phil Lester especially if it feels like doing that is just handing people personal knowledge that they can use against him.

I actually did find the video yesterday quite genuine and enjoyable. I didn't expect him to go into why he did it, because sure it would have been a good 'real' moment for him to talk about how Phil of that year was dealing with the loss of a close friend and roommate and what kind of emotional impact that had on him. But I don't want to hear that unless Phil wants to share it, and I think part of growing older is realizing that compartmentalizing your personal self away from your career and giving careful consideration to what you want the world to know about you. Sometimes 'living your truth' means deciding that you're not comfortable with widespread vulnerability, so it's not like an objective failing if Phil's truth is that he wants to make videos that are fluff content that just make people smile and not think too hard.

But on the same note: I think he's also hit a very lovely medium for my personal taste, between honesty and sharing real moments (like his letter to his past self video) and in keeping the boundaries he wants to keep and keeping his content upbeat. To me, that does feel like growth.

noodlebum wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:09 pm I agree, I'd like to see weird/creative/experimental Phil again

I saw this reply after I'd already written out the above, but since I'm already in deep with my Phil meta thoughts - I don't think it's really feasible to expect Phil at 32 to just whip back out the same creative experimental streak he had at 22. I feel like university and those early 20s years are a lot about finding passion and creative exploration... while you're figuring out what works best for you, and while you are in such a state of limbo between being a teenager and stepping into the adult world. Some people retain that forever - but some don't. Sometimes the experimental phase ends when you realize what actually does work for you and what keeps you happy, sane, and financially stable, and you decide that you genuinely just want to pursue that path.

I can't imagine Phil at 32 making a lip sync video to an emo band, or using flashy filters and putting on eyeliner. I can't imagine him sitting in a tub with an umbrella hat or drawing sharpie animation on his face. (And lets be honest, there wasn't a lot of creativity or experimenting outside of that and his handful of loose scripted horror type things.) Those are fantastic moments of young Phil, and I treasure them a lot, but that's not who Phil is right now and it's not wrong if that kind of weird/creative stuff stopped being satisfying to him where other kind of content or other types of experimenting/creativity is. For example, I'd say the II tour (for all the valid complaints a lot of people have about it - this comment is being made from the perspective of what Phil put into it, not what we took out of it) took a lot of creative energy to conceptualize from the ground up.

@anushwa I looked up the lyrics after I was just curious if anyone else heard ‘I’ve been wasting my time, on Dan and Phil’s life’ at first.

@knq I would like all that as well, but does Phil want to share/do any of that. And I’d love more collabs but it might feel weird (for viewers and them) for Phil to have them with other people while Dan isn’t posting.

alittledizzy wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:10 pm

noodlebum wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:09 pm I agree, I'd like to see weird/creative/experimental Phil again

I saw this reply after I'd already written out the above, but since I'm already in deep with my Phil meta thoughts - I don't think it's really feasible to expect Phil at 32 to just whip back out the same creative experimental streak he had at 22. I feel like university and those early 20s years are a lot about finding passion and creative exploration... while you're figuring out what works best for you, and while you are in such a state of limbo between being a teenager and stepping into the adult world. Some people retain that forever - but some don't. Sometimes the experimental phase ends when you realize what actually does work for you and what keeps you happy, sane, and financially stable, and you decide that you genuinely just want to pursue that path.

I can't imagine Phil at 32 making a lip sync video to an emo band, or using flashy filters and putting on eyeliner. I can't imagine him sitting in a tub with an umbrella hat or drawing sharpie animation on his face. (And lets be honest, there wasn't a lot of creativity or experimenting outside of that and his handful of loose scripted horror type things.) Those are fantastic moments of young Phil, and I treasure them a lot, but that's not who Phil is right now and it's not wrong if that kind of weird/creative stuff stopped being satisfying to him where other kind of content or other types of experimenting/creativity is. For example, I'd say the II tour (for all the valid complaints a lot of people have about it - this comment is being made from the perspective of what Phil put into it, not what we took out of it) took a lot of creative energy to conceptualize from the ground up.

I do agree that he's likely grown out of making lip-syncing music videos etc., and that Interactive Introverts (and Truth Bombs of course) was him being creative. I just hope he doesn't lose his fun/creative streak in general just because he's older.
Of course if these recent videos are what he really wants to be doing that's fine of course, do what you want Phil. I'm just not sure what vibe he's really going for at the moment. I must say, it must be hard still making videos after 10+ years!

I enjoyed Phil’s video yesterday and the videos he’s filmed since the beginning of the year and even though they aren’t “deep” I feel like he is telling us little anecdotes about himself that he might not have shared a few years ago.

Also thinking about Phil’s relationship to the audience I think that his being more private has probably helped him to keep making videos for the many years that he’s done it without a break. He’s found a way to keep something for himself and still make people happy and I think that works for him right now

alittledizzy wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:10 pm

sapienveneficus wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:16 pmWill the real Phil Lester please step forward

When he's not filming silly collabs, I want to see Phil use his platform to get real. I want him to tell personal stories about his high school days, his college days, his post-college days, whatever. I want to know more about Phil, and I don't think I'm alone in that. Both he and Dan have built this passionate fanbase over the past decade, and that fanbase is tuning in/hanging around for them, Dan Howell and Phil Lester. Fans want to know more about them. Heck, you know we'd all watch a 20 minute in-depth discussion about Phil's sock collection if he genuinely told us why he loves fun socks and the stories behind some of the pairs he's purchased over the years. Why? Because we care about Phil Lester and we want to know more about him. This is Phil's opportunity to share with his audience a little more about himself, and I think he's wasting it.

The problem with that is just that... it doesn't actually matter what we want or if we think he's wasting an opportunity if that isn't actually what Phil is interested in or enjoys making. Not everyone enjoys getting deep and revealing themselves to the camera, and I think it's more than understandable for Phil Lester especially if it feels like doing that is just handing people personal knowledge that they can use against him.

I actually did find the video yesterday quite genuine and enjoyable. I didn't expect him to go into why he did it, because sure it would have been a good 'real' moment for him to talk about how Phil of that year was dealing with the loss of a close friend and roommate and what kind of emotional impact that had on him. But I don't want to hear that unless Phil wants to share it, and I think part of growing older is realizing that compartmentalizing your personal self away from your career and giving careful consideration to what you want the world to know about you. Sometimes 'living your truth' means deciding that you're not comfortable with widespread vulnerability, so it's not like an objective failing if Phil's truth is that he wants to make videos that are fluff content that just make people smile and not think too hard.

But on the same note: I think he's also hit a very lovely medium for my personal taste, between honesty and sharing real moments (like his letter to his past self video) and in keeping the boundaries he wants to keep and keeping his content upbeat. To me, that does feel like growth.

I can see where you're coming from. I'm not saying that Phil needs to rocket-launch himself out of his comfort zone and start sharing anything and everything with the world, but I do think he needs to change his solo content if he truly wants to engage a disengaged audience.

I think collabs with other YouTubers would help to raise his profile (and viewcount) and more personal videos like Why I Changed My Hair and a Chat With Myself would help to bring new viewers into the fold. Give them something to be emotionally invested in. And, no, Phil doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. I'm just a bored fan, not the supreme dictator of YouTube. But if I were...

sapienveneficus wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:52 pm I think collabs with other YouTubers would help to raise his profile (and viewcount) and more personal videos like Why I Changed My Hair and a Chat With Myself would help to bring new viewers into the fold. Give them something to be emotionally invested in. And, no, Phil doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. I'm just a bored fan, not the supreme dictator of YouTube. But if I were...

Honestly, if I know this fandom at all, if Phil were to collab with ANYONE that wasn't Dan right now, people would flip out. The "are they over" speculation would be endless(ly annoying). I'm all for more collabs - as long as he chooses them wisely, not like that collab with Shawna - but not before Dan and Phil return as a unit and start posting joint videos again.

Ablissa wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:02 pm

sapienveneficus wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:52 pm I think collabs with other YouTubers would help to raise his profile (and viewcount) and more personal videos like Why I Changed My Hair and a Chat With Myself would help to bring new viewers into the fold. Give them something to be emotionally invested in. And, no, Phil doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. I'm just a bored fan, not the supreme dictator of YouTube. But if I were...

Honestly, if I know this fandom at all, if Phil were to collab with ANYONE that wasn't Dan right now, people would flip out. The "are they over" speculation would be endless(ly annoying). I'm all for more collabs - as long as he chooses them wisely, not like that collab with Shawna - but not before Dan and Phil return as a unit and start posting joint videos again.

That's definitely a good point I hadn't considered. Almost no one would take Phil doing non-Dan collabs very well right now. People already take their cues from whatever the dominant emotion reaction of the last five minutes is as opposed to looking big picture at things, so if that dominant emotional reaction is 'Phil does joint content Without Dan' then... I don't think I'd want to see the irrational conclusions jumped to from that.

In other news, relatable like from Dan?

Phil (and Dan) hardly ever promote the same video 2x... curious to see if Phil evolves beyond the one and done marketing approach to try and bolster views...

alittledizzy wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:10 pm Sometimes 'living your truth' means deciding that you're not comfortable with widespread vulnerability, so it's not like an objective failing if Phil's truth is that he wants to make videos that are fluff content that just make people smile and not think too hard.

But on the same note: I think he's also hit a very lovely medium for my personal taste, between honesty and sharing real moments (like his letter to his past self video) and in keeping the boundaries he wants to keep and keeping his content upbeat. To me, that does feel like growth.

Only quoting these parts because otherwise the page would get clogged, but:

I agree with this. There's a longing for character development in real people fandoms. We want to know what personal strides the people we keep up with make. We want them to share past hardships because in tv shows and films those are the satisfying moments, the ones that gives us closure.

Real people are a lot more complex than fictional characters. (Bear with me, I'm not assuming people literally see them as fictional characters). It's easy to view sharing less as several steps backwards. But we don't know Phil like we could get to know a fictional character. He has every right to treat his platform like entertainment, and only showing one part of himself.

Anything could have happened in his private life over the past 10 years, something big that has affected him a lot, and we may never find out about it. That can feel frustrating when we feel like we invest so much of ourselves in his life. So if we ever get frustrated, I think it's important to remind ourselves that we can't treat Dan and Phil like a fictional universe. We may never get closure for some things, even if they do.

And that's okay. Fanfiction can get us there, other fandoms or fictional universes can get us there. I think we need to stay aware that Phil has to navigate having a very invested fanbase and that some things don't get brought up because of it.

Like the loss of his friend. Phil might not want to talk about it out of respect for the person's family, for the person in question, or for any number of reasons.

^ I agree with all of that very much
I don't have any problem with people not liking Phil's content/the direction he's taken it in because like, why would I be mad about someone's opinion, but I do take some issue with people treating it as if Phil is holding himself back (especially emotionally) but just can't see it, or something like that

This is funny, but hopefully they don’t start proclaiming that they ship phan.

That’s...awkward since they know dnp irl. Kind of reminds me of when mimei liked phan art on her tumblr.

Btw whoever runs that twitter account also liked dans tweet from yesterday and Phil’s tweet today sponning his video. Do they always like video tweets?

Oh god that's actually hilarious

Amiaw wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:52 pm I enjoyed Phil’s video yesterday and the videos he’s filmed since the beginning of the year and even though they aren’t “deep” I feel like he is telling us little anecdotes about himself that he might not have shared a few years ago.

Also thinking about Phil’s relationship to the audience I think that his being more private has probably helped him to keep making videos for the many years that he’s done it without a break. He’s found a way to keep something for himself and still make people happy and I think that works for him right now

Same. It's not the most groundbreaking content -this is like the third video where he basically recycles content he's already made . It's enjoyable and I appreciate he enjoys making video's (or at the very least doesn't mind making some video's to keep us connected) Who knows where his true passions might lie at this point in his life (studio work? a change of carreers?) but making videos seems to be at least part of it.
I also think he's acting a bit more 'naturelle' and is willing to share a bit more. I don't find the change to be huge but I hope it's a path to a more personable and less redacted Phil.

Oh, Potato. Cripes, none of them can help themselves, or are we reading too much into it, who even knows anymore

I like that Phil is reblogging fan made art and gifs again (especially with purple coloring and one of the teehee moments).

Speaking of reading into things lol - Dan liked some more lovely art on Tumblr and one of the pictures he liked was him and a corgi and a the caption was “someone get this man a dog”.

My idle fantasy idea for a Dan video is to create a lookbook out of Phanart...
(inspired by this post especially)

If Dan ever did a ‘viewers choose my outfit’ and you were going to suggest something, what would you suggest?

I quite like soft, comfy Dan in big sweaters. I’d want him to try one of those sweaters with holes for your thumbs. I definitely want him to get the doggo version of the astronaut cat nightie he loves so much. Also jeans aren’t comfy and considering he’s been on camera in just his boxer briefs at least twice, I’d like to see him try out the comfy casual joggers lifestyle. But lbr he cares about fashion too much for that.

sapienveneficus wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:16 pm Heck, you know we'd all watch a 20 minute in-depth discussion about Phil's sock collection if he genuinely told us why he loves fun socks and the stories behind some of the pairs he's purchased over the years. Why? Because we care about Phil Lester and we want to know more about him.

God I want this video so bad. He even could make a spon out of it for his own socks. He could give us foot content. I want to know more about his damn socks!

I really have no idea who Big Potato Games is/are? How do they know dnp?

intoapuddle wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:00 am I really have no idea who Big Potato Games is/are? How do they know dnp?

They made Truth Bombs and lots of games DnP have played on the gaming channel e.g. bucket of doom, clickbait, obama llama...

knq wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:07 am If Dan ever did a ‘viewers choose my outfit’ and you were going to suggest something, what would you suggest?

I quite like soft, comfy Dan in big sweaters. I’d want him to try one of those sweaters with holes for your thumbs. I definitely want him to get the doggo version of the astronaut cat nightie he loves so much. Also jeans aren’t comfy and considering he’s been on camera in just his boxer briefs at least twice, I’d like to see him try out the comfy casual joggers lifestyle. But lbr he cares about fashion too much for that.

Joggers? Um, yes please. I'm not sure what i would suggest, tbh. Probably something he would never wear otherwise, so maybe a floral sweater coordinated with some pink trousers (am I just describing Dan's style in A Match and A Fuse? Yes), or some big sweaters and tight high socks.

But since the chances of Dan doing a video like that or even Dan doing a video in general lbr are zero (his quality threshold would be RUINED), I will gladly settle for a new edition of Phil's, where he just tries on different suits while also wearing glasses.