Dan & Phil Part 35: knock knock, who’s there, i hate you

[melon lord]

I DOUBT he's offended; he's joked about furries for years now, goodness gracious.

Just being curious, for years? I thought it was a 2016 thing, with the Diss Track being the height of it IMO. Does anyone remember the first time Dan said the F-word?

If I remember correctly he's been making jokes about it for a while now, but back then being a furry sounded like a disgusting, slimy internet thing so it's sort of self-deprecating kind of as if he joked about being a brony

[Birdie]

I'm not even surprised anymore tbh with these furry mentions (well, this is rather a confirmation judging by Dan's response).
I don't believe that she made the tweet under the pretense of promoting her liveshow, that seems to be a half-joke. However I'm cringing very hard that she made this tweet. It was for attention, unless Dan was joking she's kind of "outing him" about this (if he isn't already technically "out"). She's doing this without his consent and it feels weird she would post it, obviously for attention. Also, can we drop this presumption that she has some sort of best friend relationship with Dan and knows about phan? If she posts something so personal and embarrassing about him she's hardly trustworthy or friend material?

Hey, it was a joke. Dan's not a furry, it's just one of the things he likes to joke about. Pretty sure if Louise had just outed him as a furry he wouldn't have tweeted back but rather called her in private... Dan and Louise are probably genuine friends since she's one of the very few people he collabs with somewhat regularly. They're friends teasing each other about a running joke here, don't worry.

Dan's furry thing is pretty recent, I think. I don't think he's done it prior to 2016. It started around the time mocking furries got popular on Tumblr so my personal opinion is Dan's interest in and also his occasional shade directed at the furry community are another #relatable thing? I've always felt like it was very similar to his meme king phase that seems to have died down now he's king of kinks. That's just Dan's humour, I think, he's not a furry, come on.

[MoonPride]

I like Louise but her shameless plug about her live stream in the reply to Dan was a bit odd. Felt like she just using Dan at that moment.

[itsonlybeth]

I've always felt like it was very similar to his meme king phase that seems to have died down now he's king of kinks. That's just Dan's humour, I think, he's not a furry, come on.

That's got a great ring to it.

Dan Howell
King of Kinks

[000dia000]

I'm not even surprised anymore tbh with these furry mentions (well, this is rather a confirmation judging by Dan's response).
I don't believe that she made the tweet under the pretense of promoting her liveshow, that seems to be a half-joke. However I'm cringing very hard that she made this tweet. It was for attention, unless Dan was joking she's kind of "outing him" about this (if he isn't already technically "out"). She's doing this without his consent and it feels weird she would post it, obviously for attention. Also, can we drop this presumption that she has some sort of best friend relationship with Dan and knows about phan? If she posts something so personal and embarrassing about him she's hardly trustworthy or friend material?

Hey, it was a joke. Dan's not a furry, it's just one of the things he likes to joke about. Pretty sure if Louise had just outed him as a furry he wouldn't have tweeted back but rather called her in private... Dan and Louise are probably genuine friends since she's one of the very few people he collabs with somewhat regularly. They're friends teasing each other about a running joke here, don't worry.

Dan's furry thing is pretty recent, I think. I don't think he's done it prior to 2016. It started around the time mocking furries got popular on Tumblr so my personal opinion is Dan's interest in and also his occasional shade directed at the furry community are another #relatable thing? I've always felt like it was very similar to his meme king phase that seems to have died down now he's king of kinks. That's just Dan's humour, I think, he's not a furry, come on.

I know, I know. But who knows what Dan actually likes. I know it's unpleasant to think about for some people but actually consider the possibility.

[silverwinter]

I'm not even surprised anymore tbh with these furry mentions (well, this is rather a confirmation judging by Dan's response).
I don't believe that she made the tweet under the pretense of promoting her liveshow, that seems to be a half-joke. However I'm cringing very hard that she made this tweet. It was for attention, unless Dan was joking she's kind of "outing him" about this (if he isn't already technically "out"). She's doing this without his consent and it feels weird she would post it, obviously for attention. Also, can we drop this presumption that she has some sort of best friend relationship with Dan and knows about phan? If she posts something so personal and embarrassing about him she's hardly trustworthy or friend material?

Hey, it was a joke. Dan's not a furry, it's just one of the things he likes to joke about. Pretty sure if Louise had just outed him as a furry he wouldn't have tweeted back but rather called her in private... Dan and Louise are probably genuine friends since she's one of the very few people he collabs with somewhat regularly. They're friends teasing each other about a running joke here, don't worry.

Dan's furry thing is pretty recent, I think. I don't think he's done it prior to 2016. It started around the time mocking furries got popular on Tumblr so my personal opinion is Dan's interest in and also his occasional shade directed at the furry community are another #relatable thing? I've always felt like it was very similar to his meme king phase that seems to have died down now he's king of kinks. That's just Dan's humour, I think, he's not a furry, come on.

he's been making furry jokes well before 2016, #furrygate (i think it was called i don't remember now) was constantly joked about back on gg in 2015.

but yeah, i agree that it's not a big deal. the furry thing has always been a joke, dan's always treated it light-heartedly, he's never talked about being a furry seriously. it's not offensive that louise brought it up nor is it "outing" him. i mean, dan made a furry joke back in the collab he and phil did with louise (the not worth watching one). so yeah i don't think it was offensive or problematic of louise to say in that respect.

[Catallena]

You'd think that people who have been in the phandom longer than a week would understand Dan's sarcastic/ironic type of humor and his things for outdated internet jokes yet we keep ending up at these type of discussions. Y'all ok?

[melon lord]

You'd think that people who have been in the phandom longer than a week would understand Dan's sarcastic/ironic type of humor and his things for outdated internet jokes yet we keep ending up at these type of discussions. Y'all ok?

I think it's not so much Dan's reply itself but more Louise's fear of actually offending him that threw some peeps off, cause you'd assume that Louise would know where the limit is

Liked the banter, disliked the promo, loving the drama over it

[itsonlybeth]

I had a thought just now about the actual video - maybe Louise saw a bit of Dan in the interviewer, he seemed to have Dan's attitude towards the fandom (basically taking the piss) and thought he would appreciate the shared attitude?

In no way do I think she was projecting Dan's interest in the fandom onto the actual furries in the video, I think it was more a case of being on the outside, looking in (and taking the piss).

[Catallena]

You'd think that people who have been in the phandom longer than a week would understand Dan's sarcastic/ironic type of humor and his things for outdated internet jokes yet we keep ending up at these type of discussions. Y'all ok?

I think it's not so much Dan's reply itself but more Louise's fear of actually offending him that threw some peeps off, cause you'd assume that Louise would know where the limit is

Liked the banter, disliked the promo, loving the drama over it

I guess, but it seems so obvious that if Louise had really crossed a line she wouldn't have gotten a reply at all.. These days Dan is quite good at blatantly ignoring people even if they're peers.

[melon lord]

I guess, but it seems so obvious that if Louise had really crossed a line she wouldn't have gotten a reply at all.. These days Dan is quite good at blatantly ignoring people even if they're peers.

Yeah, he is good at ignoring things, but a lot of fans love the Louise x Dan interactions so ignoring it would really just make the fandom explode on twitter so even if he WAS offended he would probably make a comment and then dm her to remove it or Louise would maybe become nervous and delete it herself

[alittledizzy]

Dan is only joking about being a furry to take the heat off of the real fursuit wearing furry in the relationship.

(jk dan's totally a furry too)

[SquishPhan]

Dan is only joking about being a furry to take the heat off of the real fursuit wearing furry in the relationship.

(jk dan's totally a furry too)

I think you're on to something.

[silverwinter]

can i ask why some people here believe dan to be an "unreliable narrator"? i'm curious bc i don't understand how someone's own experiences about their own life can be considered "unreliable" - it's dan's own life, surely he must be the most reliable narrator there is about the thoughts and feelings he has towards events in his life both now and in retrospect.

(i'm not targeting this to you specifically, pearshaped34 btw. your post just reminded me that some people on this forum have this idea, and i was confused which is why i brought it up.)

The question wasn't directed at me, but my take on it is that people with depressive or gloomy outlooks on life (sometimes medically related to depression, sometimes not), tend to see the world through a bleak lens, discounting all the good things and focusing on / magnifying the bad things.

An unreliable narrator is a term in fiction, so it doesn't necessarily always apply to real life, (I think?), but the idea is the same. If someone always sees the dark side of things maybe they're not remembering with 100% accuracy.

Depression can make everything dark, but also, some people really just struggle with looking on the bright side, without necessarily having mental health issues they deal with. (IDK if Dan does or not...I have at times and it can make it hard to see bright things in the world even if there are just as many as the dark things, or more.)

Well that's just some thoughts of mine on the subject. Not judging Dan tbh. It's hard for me sometimes to think of happy times in the past, too.


<--- supposed to be working tbh

thanks for explaining, this makes more sense! i definitely know what you mean about how depressive states can prevent you from seeing the good in any situation, and it makes sense when applied to dan. my main concern, i suppose, is when it seems like people discount dan's own feelings towards something as him being an unreliable narrator. it's one thing to, like you said, understand that he isn't seeing the past clearly due to the state his mind/mood is in. it's another to dismiss dan being sad or bitter or angry about something as him just being an unreliable narrator who needs to have a rational grasp on his feelings.

i do see the latter idea in this fandom every now and then, and i guess it's just upsetting to see since i don't think anyone's feelings should be invalidated.

[melon lord]

thanks for explaining, this makes more sense! i definitely know what you mean about how depressive states can prevent you from seeing the good in any situation, and it makes sense when applied to dan. my main concern, i suppose, is when it seems like people discount dan's own feelings towards something as him being an unreliable narrator. it's one thing to, like you said, understand that he isn't seeing the past clearly due to the state his mind/mood is in. it's another to dismiss dan being sad or bitter or angry about something as him just being an unreliable narrator who needs to have a rational grasp on his feelings.

i do see the latter idea in this fandom every now and then, and i guess it's just upsetting to see since i don't think anyone's feelings should be invalidated.

[offtopic]A good tv show that shows unreliable narration is My Mad Fat Diary. It's a British tv show with 2 seasons and it's got a lot of heavy themes so if you're sensitive to darker/serious topics then it may not be for you, but towards the end it brilliantly shows the way depression and mental illness can alter and skew someone's perspective when the truth is somewhere in the middle[/offtopic]

[secretagentphan]

I guess, but it seems so obvious that if Louise had really crossed a line she wouldn't have gotten a reply at all.. These days Dan is quite good at blatantly ignoring people even if they're peers.

Yeah, he is good at ignoring things, but a lot of fans love the Louise x Dan interactions so ignoring it would really just make the fandom explode on twitter so even if he WAS offended he would probably make a comment and then dm her to remove it or Louise would maybe become nervous and delete it herself

Honestly this is a reply just in general and about no one in particular but I personally don't think it's that deep. Dan constantly jokes about Furrys and told Louise what they were so seeing a weird furry interview reminded her of him because it's such a Dan thing to joke about. I doubt Dan was offended his reply was very funny and sarcastic. Dan probably makes furry jokes because it's so borderline and he knows that a lot of things in his and Phil's past is suspicious, but I don't believe he's ACTUALLY a furry. I don't think comparing his male attraction statement to his furry jokes is accurate or fair imo

The discussion about Louise doing it for attention is a whole other story though. I think it was a half joke but who knows. I'm choosing to stay out of that discussion because I'm not sure what my opinion is yet.

[pearshaped34]

Okay I find it funny but her promo of the liveshow kind of soured me, why not just leave it as a joke? with that tweet it just feels like a ploy to get attention and then shove in her promo
hopefully someone can convince me that she's actually not doing that bc I thought that was icky

They tease each other a lot and seem pretty comfortable about it. I wouldn't worry.
TBH I'm not sure, is there a lot of crossover audience? I think Louise is a cool person, but I don't really watch her videos much.
Just some #bants between friends, IMO.

There doesn't have to be a crossover in audience when she is actually saying that she will be talking about Dan in her liveshow. Those are the magic words that bring all the phans to the yard no matter what the content is about or who the youtuber is.

That being said I also don't mind this interaction or even think she specifically tweeted him trying to promo her liveshow more like he replied and she took the opportunity to do so. For me that would only have an ick factor if it became a regular thing for her to tweet him and promo something. As a one-off it's harmless and in this case quite funny.

can i ask why some people here believe dan to be an "unreliable narrator"? i'm curious bc i don't understand how someone's own experiences about their own life can be considered "unreliable" - it's dan's own life, surely he must be the most reliable narrator there is about the thoughts and feelings he has towards events in his life both now and in retrospect.
(i'm not targeting this to you specifically, pearshaped34 btw. your post just reminded me that some people on this forum have this idea, and i was confused which is why i brought it up.)

Dan is kind of a drama queen and as such is a fan of using hyperbolic language. If you watch the gaming channel you'll notice that often Dan will describe everything they do (in what is often a fairly simple video game) as being the most intense/harrowing/hardest/scariest thing his ever experienced in his life. And he does the same kind of thing with stories he tells in liveshows and therefore when Dan says something was the best/worst thing ever in the world etc I wonder how reliable that description is.
And I don't mean to imply his a liar with this just that you need to take his version of events with a pinch of salt because he is just naturally very dramatic about everything.

And ultimately I think his an unreliable narrator because to me some of the things he says just don't match with things we already know to be true, plain and simple.
Like regarding whether he had friends in school, in recent years Dan has more than implied on a number of occasions that he had no friends at all and it was a lonely time. Now maybe on the feelings side Dan did feel really insecure and alone in school and now feels none of his friendships were real so to him this is not a lie.
However we do know that at the time he classed himself as having friends because he talked about them back in 2009/10 and he went to festivals with them and he did other social things with them he tweeted about at the time and he had a gf for three years etc etc.
So to me despite if he now feels none of this was real I don't consider it the work of a reliable narrator to just completely discount all these things and make it sound like he was a loner who had nobody. JMO.

[sentinel]

Dan is only joking about being a furry to take the heat off of the real fursuit wearing furry in the relationship.

(jk dan's totally a furry too)

great now I gotta kink shame both of them

[misakichan274]

Dan is only joking about being a furry to take the heat off of the real fursuit wearing furry in the relationship.

RT @markforrer Whos this suspicious character.. pic.twitter.com/TWXE2KYG03 That was me in my costume on the last day of school!! *memories*

— Phil Lester (@AmazingPhil) December 26, 2013




(jk dan's totally a furry too)

agree

Speaking of, I thought Phil's moments of his favourite 2016 tweets on twitter was adorable 2017 is already shaping up to be

heading back to lurking now

[melon lord]

Like regarding whether he had friends in school, in recent years Dan has more than implied on a number of occasions that he had no friends at all and it was a lonely time. Now maybe on the feelings side Dan did feel really insecure and alone in school and now feels none of his friendships are real so to him this is not a lie.
However we do know that at the time he classed himself as having friends because he talked about them back in 2009/10 and he went to festivals with them and he was in a three year relationship etc etc.
Despite if he now feels none of this was real I don't consider it the work of a reliable narrator to just completely discount all these things and make it sound like he was a loner who has nobody.

Based on his DML, the friends he went to festivals with were a group of "cool people" that invited him to hang out and get wasted as heck and that's when he sort of abandoned his dreams of being an actor and lost himself in the crowd shenanigans (lots of alcohol and festivals, apparently). So while he did have company maybe now in hindsight he's connected those people with that time he gave up on his ambitions and felt dejected and hopeless and those people were just an outlet for his frustrations. Maybe none of those people were friends that would have lasted through the days after school, maybe he regrets getting too deep with them, maybe he just joined them to feel less lonely and feel more cool, there's so many reasons tbh.

[anathema]

Oh, wow. Do you guys actually think A) Dan is actually a legit furry, B) Louise would know he's a furry, and C) Louise would then make a joke about him being a furry? Dan has been making furry jokes for ages (x/x). Do you really think he would be mad if someone else made a joke about furries directed towards him?
I do agree it's a bit shady to slide the promo for her ls into the reply, but I doubt that was her reason for making the initial tweet.

Dan is only joking about being a furry to take the heat off of the real fursuit wearing furry in the relationship.

(jk dan's totally a furry too)

How could you forget this?

[Sakura Selfie]

Happy new year! Love the fireworks at the top

The wording of Dans tweet amused me because it automatically made me think what are the other things she's not meant to publicly talk about? As melon lord pointed out the pointless waste of time vid had a big chunk about furries in it so it's clearly stuck in her head lol and she's already put out content with him (and Phil) discussing and joking about Dan being a furry so she knows she's not crossing any boundaries with it.

[melon lord]

Let's talk about houseplants

This tweet is appearing in my feed, it's from 2010, anyone know the context to this?

[silverwinter]

can i ask why some people here believe dan to be an "unreliable narrator"? i'm curious bc i don't understand how someone's own experiences about their own life can be considered "unreliable" - it's dan's own life, surely he must be the most reliable narrator there is about the thoughts and feelings he has towards events in his life both now and in retrospect.
(i'm not targeting this to you specifically, pearshaped34 btw. your post just reminded me that some people on this forum have this idea, and i was confused which is why i brought it up.)

Dan is kind of a drama queen and as such is a fan of using hyperbolic language. If you watch the gaming channel you'll notice that often Dan will describe everything they do (in what is often a fairly simple video game) as being the most intense/harrowing/hardest/scariest thing his ever experienced in his life. And he does the same kind of thing with stories he tells in liveshows and therefore when Dan says something was the best/worst thing ever in the world etc I wonder how reliable that description is.
And I don't mean to imply his a liar with this just that you need to take his version of events with a pinch of salt because he is just naturally very dramatic about everything.

And ultimately I think his an unreliable narrator because to me some of the things he says just don't match with things we already know to be true, plain and simple.
Like regarding whether he had friends in school, in recent years Dan has more than implied on a number of occasions that he had no friends at all and it was a lonely time. Now maybe on the feelings side Dan did feel really insecure and alone in school and now feels none of his friendships were real so to him this is not a lie.
However we do know that at the time he classed himself as having friends because he talked about them back in 2009/10 and he went to festivals with them and he did other social things with them he tweeted about at the time and he had a gf for three years etc etc.
So to me despite if he now feels none of this was real I don't consider it the work of a reliable narrator to just completely discount all these things and make it sound like he was a loner who had nobody. JMO.

yeah, i definitely get what you're saying. i agree that, yes, technically dan had a group of friends in high school that he hung out with, partied with, etc. he had a gf for almost three years. clearly he wasn't a loner with no friends or social interaction. but, like you said, i think what hereally means when he says things like that is that he didn't feel a strong connection with them, he felt like everyone liked other people better than him, he couldn't talk to these friends about the problems he had or his feelings when he was sad, that these friends may have been a bad influence that just encouraged him to waste his years partying and forgetting about drama and theater, that these friends weren't true, long-lasting friends bc he had to act a certain way to be accepted by them. i think, in retrospect, dan understands all this, and he understands that he had friends and the like, but he also understands the ramifications of having those friends and how it may have cost him happiness in his adolescence. i think that's what he means when he makes such sweeping, factually-incorrect observations about his past - it's not meant to be taken literally.

Based on his DML, the friends he went to festivals with were a group of "cool people" that invited him to hang out and get wasted as heck and that's when he sort of abandoned his dreams of being an actor and lost himself in the crowd shenanigans (lots of alcohol and festivals, apparently). So while he did have company maybe now in hindsight he's connected those people with that time he gave up on his ambitions and felt dejected and hopeless and those people were just an outlet for his frustrations. Maybe none of those people were friends that would have lasted through the days after school, maybe he regrets getting too deep with them, maybe he just joined them to feel less lonely and feel more cool, there's so many reasons tbh.

basically this

[flarequake]

Dancing unicorn kicks ass, is all I'm gonna say (also that, as I've said all along, furries are just what they said in the video, it's not primarily a sex thing).