IDB

don't expect a ditl but i am excited for the first official Daniel Howell video!

malday wrote:

Florida ditl in which he explains he went to the Bahamas to extend his visa?
any other bets?

I think from the way he'd describing it that it could be similar to "I almost blinded myself" but it's 2017 and anything can happen. A ditl would be amazing though

Waggle9007 wrote:It's been a horrendous day - my friend was at the concert and is currently in hospital with severe burns and injuries, and I was waiting for her outside when everything happened. Thankfully she is likely to make a full recovery.

I will say that it's been so good to be able to escape thinking about everything that has happened by reading about everyone's experiences with finding out about d+p. For me it was kinda simple - I started watching Phil in 2008 when my cousin sent me a link to his 'Psycho Boyfriend' video, because she was at York uni at the time, and I didn't believe her when she said what had happened! I found Dan when they filmed PINOF, and I've never looked back since!

I can't believe one of our own was there. Sending my love to your friend!

I'm so hyped for the video! Dan, stop this! The curiosity is killing me.

LtrllySusan wrote:

Definitely agreeing with and respecting his choice (also probably the reason there is no liveshow today then).

Really curious what's up with the BahamaDrama thing then, if it wasn't just a random visa-related trip.

I also think that no ls today but video tomorrow is the right way to go about it. He's right that we shouldn't stop our lives when something horrible happens, besides, I'm sure it'll distract people. I know I tend to watch Dan and Phil when I feel down.

saffarinda wrote:Off-topic to everything occuring, but to lighten the mood I thought I'd ask how people discovered Dan and Phil? I'm wondering how many people discovered Dan/Phil first (or if you found them on their gaming channel).

Mine was through Dan's "Meaning of Life" video, which probably says a lot about me aha

Almost a year ago I found Dan first by clicking on The Story of My Hamster bc of the cute hamster in the thumbnail. I loved his deep thoughts and the way his mind worked and how he was so good at expressing himself reminded me a lot of my daughter. I also loved his accent and thought he was good looking. I'm not a big fan of swearing, but I somehow don't mind it in his accent. I think the next vid I watched was Typos Ruined My Life and I didn't like him as well in that. I've since watched it more and I don't mind it now. Then I watched the one where he pranks a stalker fan and I really didn't like it. It felt passive aggressive. But again, upon rewatching I don't mind that vid. I got my daughter to watch the hamster vid and she started watching Dan and showed me the Jamaica Dan vs Phil vid. I didn't like Phil in that. He seemed to lack personality (seems weird to say that now). I didn't like draw Phil naked. I guess we watched all the PINOFs and that was when I started liking them together. I went back and watched all Dan's vids and live shows and then I watched Phil's. I definitely like them both for different reasons now. I don't prefer one over the other.

Thank you everyone for your good wishes, it really does mean a lot IDB is a great place

I'm looking forwards to knowing the truth behind the Bahamas tweet (although I was 90% sold on the visa thing). As it's something he did wrong (by the looks of the tweets) do you think he could he have filled out/said the wrong date of exit when he was asked? Also very excited to see his new set up!

I feel like Dan is oozing respect and tact in this situation. I'm glad they didn't remain totally silent, and spoke out in support. And I think his tweet about not letting it control our lives was well done. At the same time, I do agree that some time before jumping back in to their routine is only right.

Something that hit me hard, was how he brought up that Manchester used to be his home. Now, I haven't wanted to say this because this attack has nothing to do with them, but we are a Dan and Phil forum after all. Along with all my thoughts being with the victims and their families and friends, I have also been really feeling it for these two. We don't know how hard this event hit them, personally. I know if my hometown had a tragedy like this, I'd be really shaken. Not that I'm not shaken anyway, any time things like this happen. I guess I'm just saying I'm proud of them both for how it's being handled, and hope they are doing well with the news.

dramatic tone change I spent way too much time at work trying to find the post where I predicted Dan would explain the Bahamas trip within a month, and I couldn't find it. But I just wanted to say I did call it.

i was so convinced the visa theory was true, but i don't expect dan to make a video on "so i changed my holiday plans to stay with phil's family and this was the easiest way bye". so now the big question is, is it a storytime where basically this happens but everything is v dramatic and goes wrong but in the end he gets his visa nevertheless? or were we all wrong and there's more to the bahamas after all? can we trust dan when he says "i have decided to share it", making it sound like a spontaneous decision because something interesting happened, or was it his plan all along? is it a secret project after all? will this motivate me to get through tomorrow or will i be distracted all day long? stay tuned for a new episode of "dan's video announcements making everyone anxious".

i loved to read all the stories of how everyone got into watching deppy, it was a nice thing to come home to especially on such a day. Waggle9007, i hope your friend (and you, too), will be better soon.

onetruetrash wrote:

loonyradish wrote:[offtopic]now that someone mentioned superamazingproject - I still haven't watched more than half a video or so from the channel, and it appears that you guys don't talk much about it. Is it worth watching it? Do you have a favorite "episode" you would recommend?[/offtopic]

[offtopic]Their last few episodes were the funniest. I don't remember the names of them episodes though. All the episodes were really funny IMO.
I'd say to give them a watch.

Unrelated, but in one of the episodes, Phil uses a little owl toy and as soon as I saw it, I was shook because I coincidentally had the same owl toy because I randomly found it around two years ago.[/offtopic]

Thanks, gonna take a look at the last episodes then!
Maybe he lost the toy and yours is his (or, well, was)

autumnhearth wrote:

loonyradish wrote:[offtopic]now that someone mentioned superamazingproject - I still haven't watched more than half a video or so from the channel, and it appears that you guys don't talk much about it. Is it worth watching it? Do you have a favorite "episode" you would recommend?[/offtopic]

I have mixed feelings about the superamazingproject. It's one of the last things I decided to look into of theirs and I've probably watched about a quarter or a third of the episodes (but I'm not sure). It can be quite random and a bit cringe, but offers an interesting insight into their early working dynamic so I would definitely give it a shot. I've actually been wanting to ask if others have favorite episodes as well. I'd start with the first one because tan!Dan, Dan denying Phil a hamster and Manchester apartment nostalgia. It's quite short. I like the holiday ones as well.

Thanks as well! That sounds kinda interesting. Also, short videos are good because I can have such a short attention span sometimes

Waggle9007 wrote:It's been a horrendous day - my friend was at the concert and is currently in hospital with severe burns and injuries, and I was waiting for her outside when everything happened. Thankfully she is likely to make a full recovery.

I'm a bit late, but I hope your friend recovers soon (and you too, I'm sure it's hard to deal with memories like that).

Re: Bahamas
I'm so excited for a new video, and also very curious to if we were right! Someone sad it sounds like a video in the style of "I nearly blinded myself", and I agree with that. Even though I think he went to the Bahamas for his visa, I still hope for a new project or something similar!

its incredibly lovbely to see people come together in times like this, regardless ofwhether you are on twitter or tumblr or an obscure niche forum ily lads

gl for gcses/ohther exams

all body types are valid, so are all culturus

youruber opinions

stay safe buddies

[offtopic]What a day to finally join this thread, happiness and sadness go hand in hand together as always.
I can't stop thinking about these awful things that keep happening. People are the worst monsters. My thoughts are with those affected by these tragedies [/offtopic]

saffarinda wrote:Off-topic to everything occuring, but to lighten the mood I thought I'd ask how people discovered Dan and Phil? I'm wondering how many people discovered Dan/Phil first (or if you found them on their gaming channel).

Mine was through Dan's "Meaning of Life" video, which probably says a lot about me aha

Hello, everyone!

I thought this could be the perfect moment to stop just reading quietly and actually share something as well.

My story won't be the most original one. A friend showed both of them to me in 2013. She said I reminded her of Phil a little bit. They were cute but that was the extent of it for me back then. And after that I forgot about them for a long time. Till 2015 when I started a new job and barely had a day-off for about six months. So in December I remembered about the quirky guys from YouTube and started watching them for fun, just to take my mind off things. And when I eventually got more free time in 2016, I found myself watching videos with them every evening - something which still goes on. I feel like they recharge my energy.

They just bring so much joy into my life that I can't describe it with words. I'm not into YT, was never keen on gaming, I'm just really into them and their interaction. I'd watch anything with them, recently started catching up on their early live shows and BBC Radio 1 shows.

I'm past saving now and couldn't be happier about it

cherrybomb3 wrote:its incredibly lovbely to see people come together in times like this, regardless ofwhether you are on twitter or tumblr or an obscure niche forum ily lads

gl for gcses/ohther exams

all body types are valid, so are all culturus

youruber opinions

stay safe buddies

hi dan

THE RETURN OF IDB HOMEGROWN CONSPIRACY: CHERRYBOMB3

Reading Dan's replies, I'm also leaning to the extending visa theory.

I heard about the raised level but I hope everyone will be safe and the summer will be very positive for everyone and the ones recovering. And a wish for a full recovery for your friend Waggle9007

I'm really glad about Dan's responses today and add me to the ones looking forward to the video tomorrow. So maybe the trip was really about the visas - if it was I just wonder how he will explain it, if he will go as well into details why he decided to stay in the end or if he will skip the 'why' and just right into 'I needed to extend visa and this is the funny story around it'. So we will get just the how (funny sketch story) but not why. I mean I mostly look forward to his dramatic story retelling but I'm still curious. (Also maybe he filmed it and edited at the Phil-family-vacation house - although I can not imagine him just doing so without setting up some background like Phil did with his lost at a mall story (which is one of my favourite)). Well let's see. Who knows maybe it will be some sort of what not to do when going on vacation (forget visa) kind of thing - like when he did what not to do on beach, a bit of outside filming. (maybe we'll get a behind a scene again like that ball ice cream throwing cute fail. but that's just an extended daydream of mine of the possibilities)

loonyradish wrote:

onetruetrash wrote:

loonyradish wrote:[offtopic]now that someone mentioned superamazingproject - I still haven't watched more than half a video or so from the channel, and it appears that you guys don't talk much about it. Is it worth watching it? Do you have a favorite "episode" you would recommend?[/offtopic]

[offtopic]Their last few episodes were the funniest. I don't remember the names of them episodes though. All the episodes were really funny IMO.
I'd say to give them a watch.

Unrelated, but in one of the episodes, Phil uses a little owl toy and as soon as I saw it, I was shook because I coincidentally had the same owl toy because I randomly found it around two years ago.[/offtopic]

Thanks, gonna take a look at the last episodes then!
Maybe he lost the toy and yours is his (or, well, was)

I honestly secretly wish that even though the odds are slim. haha

Also, welcome back cherrybomb3! Strong branding.

Great to see you back cherrybomb3 Hope you had a nice break family holiday

I blame my eldest daughter for my fondness for - she checked them out on a friend's recommendation in mid 2015 and then played me a few of their videos as she wanted tabinof for her birthday in Nov 2015 and I was curious as to why she liked them so much! The first one was photo booth challenge which I found hilarious. Next came lots of Dil and the various pinofs (and voldy), by which time I was properly

Wishing you and your friend all the best Waggle9007 - hope they make a speedy recovery

awkwardly wrote:(Also maybe he filmed it and edited at the Phil-family-vacation house - although I can not imagine him just doing so without setting up some background like Phil did with his lost at a mall story (which is one of my favourite)). Well let's see.

I'm curious about that also. I both hope and don't hope it's in the same room as Phil's creepy doll video last year (if they stay in the same house each year), because of the 5 more pages of bedroom discussion that would generate.

Also: I first saw D&P on their first YouTubers react and was curious about their accents and why they were in California. (Didn't know VidCon was a thing at the time.) Watched a few of their videos, and then all of them. May have been influenced also after watching PINOF4 and thinking "haha, I bet people ship them" and boy was I right.

VengefulBlue wrote:
but also:
i kind of grew up in the "emo kid/myspace/scene" scene and knew lots of straight guys who "flirted" or even fooled around bc the girls thought it was cool or sexy or something. i haven't seen a lot of discussion on how that actually was a thing at the time, just like straight girls making out was. but that didn't seem like the vibe deppy gave off. they seemed... joyful? when straight guys messed around it was always with about 8 layers of irony and they'd make it clear that it was just a bit of silliness, and deppy seemed to be more genuine in how they flirted. so as a young kid in that same sort of social circle, i saw them as just like me: the queer kid who could get away with flirting in public because acting vaguely queer was a fad at the time.

(edit: i say queer as a catch all for any non-hetero sexuality. if you don't like the word, sorry, but it's the label i myself use.)

This is something I think about a lot when I observe younger fans on tumblr/the yt comment sections. Like, do they have any concept of the context, b/c bisexuality (and only bisexuality) was almost normalized in a weird and specific way within the subculture that doesn't really have a direct analogue today? How do they read this? any teenagers on here want to give input?

FWIW, I've always felt that PINOF has about eight layers of irony to it. Not so much for other less ott videos.

re: discussion a couple pages back about how we started following dan and phil--
I had a serious, recurring illness from late 2006 to mid 2009. YouTube is one way to pass the time while not being able to attend school.

twix wrote:

VengefulBlue wrote:
but also:
i kind of grew up in the "emo kid/myspace/scene" scene and knew lots of straight guys who "flirted" or even fooled around bc the girls thought it was cool or sexy or something. i haven't seen a lot of discussion on how that actually was a thing at the time, just like straight girls making out was. but that didn't seem like the vibe deppy gave off. they seemed... joyful? when straight guys messed around it was always with about 8 layers of irony and they'd make it clear that it was just a bit of silliness, and deppy seemed to be more genuine in how they flirted. so as a young kid in that same sort of social circle, i saw them as just like me: the queer kid who could get away with flirting in public because acting vaguely queer was a fad at the time.

(edit: i say queer as a catch all for any non-hetero sexuality. if you don't like the word, sorry, but it's the label i myself use.)

This is something I think about a lot when I observe younger fans on tumblr/the yt comment sections. Like, do they have any concept of the context, b/c bisexuality (and only bisexuality) was almost normalized in a weird and specific way within the subculture that doesn't really have a direct analogue today? How do they read this? any teenagers on here want to give input?

Hello, teenager here! I'm not sure what you were asking exactly, but I think you meant that people in the comments always argue whether or not Dan and Phil are gay or straight without taking bisexuality into account. I honestly have no idea why that is. People in my school, including myself, identify as bisexual and no one questions it. I also live in a rather conservative part of America, so it's quite nice to see. If the people where I live can think of it as normal and talk about people being bi, then I don't understand why the Phandom doesn't, especially since many of them use Tumblr, which is the poster child for LGBT+ related things.

twix wrote:
This is something I think about a lot when I observe younger fans on tumblr/the yt comment sections. Like, do they have any concept of the context, b/c bisexuality (and only bisexuality) was almost normalized in a weird and specific way within the subculture that doesn't really have a direct analogue today? How do they read this? any teenagers on here want to give input?

FWIW, I've always felt that PINOF has about eight layers of irony to it. Not so much for other less ott videos.

18 year old here! I never really experienced the "Myspace contextual bisexuality" thing that is mentioned above. However, I do find (in my secondary school at least) that there isn't really a stigma against boys behaving flirtily with other boys. There is definitely a barrier there - a kind of "you're cool but we're just mates being mates" kind of vibe - but there is a real "openness" in their interactions, especially on social media sites, where they'll call each other bae, boyfriend etc regularly. I wouldn't call it ironic...more of a "trend" borne out of genuine affection. I'm not sure if bisexuality is "normalised", per se - it's not really mentioned, and it's not assumed that a boy who is flirty/cheeky with another boy is actually bisexual.

This is in Ireland, so I don't know if things are different in other places. I'd be interested to hear more about the normalisation of bisexuality. Do you feel that it still exists today in other forms?

onetruetrash wrote:

twix wrote:

VengefulBlue wrote:
but also:
i kind of grew up in the "emo kid/myspace/scene" scene and knew lots of straight guys who "flirted" or even fooled around bc the girls thought it was cool or sexy or something. i haven't seen a lot of discussion on how that actually was a thing at the time, just like straight girls making out was. but that didn't seem like the vibe deppy gave off. they seemed... joyful? when straight guys messed around it was always with about 8 layers of irony and they'd make it clear that it was just a bit of silliness, and deppy seemed to be more genuine in how they flirted. so as a young kid in that same sort of social circle, i saw them as just like me: the queer kid who could get away with flirting in public because acting vaguely queer was a fad at the time.

(edit: i say queer as a catch all for any non-hetero sexuality. if you don't like the word, sorry, but it's the label i myself use.)

This is something I think about a lot when I observe younger fans on tumblr/the yt comment sections. Like, do they have any concept of the context, b/c bisexuality (and only bisexuality) was almost normalized in a weird and specific way within the subculture that doesn't really have a direct analogue today? How do they read this? any teenagers on here want to give input?

Hello, teenager here! I'm not sure what you were asking exactly, but I think you meant that people in the comments always argue whether or not Dan and Phil are gay or straight without taking bisexuality into account. I honestly have no idea why that is. People in my school, including myself, identify as bisexual and no one questions it. I also live in a rather conservative part of America, so it's quite nice to see. If the people where I live can think of it as normal and talk about people being bi, then I don't understand why the Phandom doesn't, especially since many of them use Tumblr, which is the poster child for LGBT+ related things.

it's more like: are teens reading early deppy vids as queer bc they don't know the 'historical' context? which was that guys in that myspace-y alternative subculture acted queer and fooled around, even if they were actually straight.

i would argue against it being actually normalized tho: it was more like "doing gay stuff is okay, but being gay isn't". even guys who did sexual stuff with other guys got freaked out when they were asked on a date by a dude. it was a weird thing, i remember hearing my straight friends say like "yeah i know we fucked, but i was jk", which for us queer kids made it really suck, even while it meant we could act queer.

edit: it's definitely closest to what howarethelads describes. in my social circle, it also involved literal sexuality, but we were a party crowd, so that's part of it.

twix wrote:
This is something I think about a lot when I observe younger fans on tumblr/the yt comment sections. Like, do they have any concept of the context, b/c bisexuality (and only bisexuality) was almost normalized in a weird and specific way within the subculture that doesn't really have a direct analogue today? How do they read this? any teenagers on here want to give input?

FWIW, I've always felt that PINOF has about eight layers of irony to it. Not so much for other less ott videos.

I'm 16 and get the emo bisexual guys -thing, even tho that mindset sometimes feels like being an archaeologist trying to undestand some lost civilization's lifestyle. But as that subculture still (at least here, on a small scale) existed in 2011-2012 when I started using social media, it could be entirely different when the people who watch those videos are just a few years younger than me and don't really remember all of that. But I think the difference and what matters when it comes to is that they are still living with each other and going on holidays and I just remembered that we live in the post-baking post-rebrand world when they are planning to get a dog and a forever home and these discussions feel a bit pointless, oops

saffarinda wrote:Off-topic to everything occuring, but to lighten the mood I thought I'd ask how people discovered Dan and Phil? I'm wondering how many people discovered Dan/Phil first (or if you found them on their gaming channel).

Mine was through Dan's "Meaning of Life" video, which probably says a lot about me aha

I was first introduced to them through a friend in 2012 who showed me super amazing project (when they were still making it wow!) then some of their own videos, so I discovered them simultaneously. I wouldn't say I really joined the phandom until 2015 though. I really liked them 2012-14, had merch and watched every video, just wasn't really in the phandom (I was just a casual viewer and not a huge believer in phan as I am now). It was the release of tabinof that really brought me into the phandom, and my girlfriend at the time was a big phannie who showed me things she shouldn't have. I've been stuck ever since

[offtopic]I am really excited to hear about Dan's Bahamas adventures tomorrow! Never would have expected a video on it! [/offtopic]

[offtopic]It has been so lovely to scroll through IDB today and see everyone's well-wishes for Manchester. My brother's girlfriend was at the gig and he was waiting for her and her friends in the carpark when it happened. They are all fine but we are shaken up as a family! My heart goes out to everyone affected and Waggle9007 hope you and your friend are both ok and that your friend makes a full and speedy recovery[/offtopic]

Also before I start this essay I wanna say that since the Bahamas thing kicked off I've had a gut feeling it's some kind of sponsored vid. And wanna put that out now in case I'm right for once!

I wanted to weigh in on the subculture/bisexuality discussion. It's something I've actually wanted to bring up before here!

I am a year younger than Phil and was semi in the 'scene' and also quite into YT between 2006 - 2010, which is when boys flirting with each other for attention seemed most prevalent (to me). It was definitely a trend, and honestly most of the time (I felt) it was done for the attention of teenage girls - either to get them to fancy the boys in question (as the guys at my school did), or to get a bit of a 'following' (as guys in local bands in my area who wanted to be MySpace famous did). To my shame, as a teenager I think I even followed a MySpace page which was called 'emo boys kissing' or something, and it was literally just pictures of boys with the same dress sense and hairstyles as D&P making out, with the implication they were bi/straight - because that was part of what was attractive about it.

Right when I found D&P - and I watched them casually from 2007ish to 2015 before becoming a proper fan - they very much gave off that vibe to me. I disagree with the poster who said they seemed more genuine than other boys doing the same thing. To me they really were just another two guys flirting for the cameras to build a YT following. That's what the PINOFs gave off, that's what their early twitter interactions, etc. gave off to me, and honestly, I've never seen voldy, but given the kind of... internet culture of the time I can sort of see how it might have been a bad joke they decided not to go ahead with (not saying I believe this necessarily - just saying I see how they might have thought it was a plausible excuse).

So that's why I was quite resistant to the idea of them being together until very recently. When you contextualise a lot of their early behaviour in what was acceptable in their subculture at the time, I think it loses a lot of its power, to be honest. Obviously since then there has been many years of different behaviour that can be contextualised in a different way which has all led to me changing my opinion somewhat. But when people say that they have to be together because of their early behaviour I'm really inclined to disagree, to me it's almost that they could be together in spite of their early behaviour seeming quite over the top and attention seeking.

(I'm not saying they are/were trying to queerbait btw - although only a few years ago it was a different time and I don't think anyone's intentions were bad in doing that stuff. I actually think it was a response to the kind of 'toxic masculinity' around in other cultures/subcultures. In the emo/scene subculture, men were definitely encouraged to be more sensitive/vulnerable and I think this was part of it. Dan and Phil both seem to be quite sensitive and not traditionally 'manly' men too and I can see how the scene might have appealed to them because of this)

Obviously have to really stress that this is all very much my opinion, based on my perception formed by the bands I listened to, friends I had, area I grew up in, etc in the mid-late 00's. And I could be way off. But wouldn't be surprised to hear other people feel the same.

blackdenim wrote:[offtopic]It has been so lovely to scroll through IDB today and see everyone's well-wishes for Manchester. My brother's girlfriend was at the gig and he was waiting for her and her friends in the carpark when it happened. They are all fine but we are shaken up as a family! My heart goes out to everyone affected and Waggle9007 hope you and your friend are both ok and that your friend makes a full and speedy recovery[/offtopic]

Also before I start this essay I wanna say that since the Bahamas thing kicked off I've had a gut feeling it's some kind of sponsored vid. And wanna put that out now in case I'm right for once!

I wanted to weigh in on the subculture/bisexuality discussion. It's something I've actually wanted to bring up before here!

I am a year younger than Phil and was semi in the 'scene' and also quite into YT between 2006 - 2010, which is when boys flirting with each other for attention seemed most prevalent (to me). It was definitely a trend, and honestly most of the time (I felt) it was done for the attention of teenage girls - either to get them to fancy the boys in question (as the guys at my school did), or to get a bit of a 'following' (as guys in local bands in my area who wanted to be MySpace famous did). To my shame, as a teenager I think I even followed a MySpace page which was called 'emo boys kissing' or something, and it was literally just pictures of boys with the same dress sense and hairstyles as D&P making out, with the implication they were bi/straight - because that was part of what was attractive about it.

Right when I found D&P - and I watched them casually from 2007ish to 2015 before becoming a proper fan - they very much gave off that vibe to me. I disagree with the poster who said they seemed more genuine than other boys doing the same thing. To me they really were just another two guys flirting for the cameras to build a YT following. That's what the PINOFs gave off, that's what their early twitter interactions, etc. gave off to me, and honestly, I've never seen voldy, but given the kind of... internet culture of the time I can sort of see how it might have been a bad joke they decided not to go ahead with (not saying I believe this necessarily - just saying I see how they might have thought it was a plausible excuse).

So that's why I was quite resistant to the idea of them being together until very recently. When you contextualise a lot of their early behaviour in what was acceptable in their subculture at the time, I think it loses a lot of its power, to be honest. Obviously since then there has been many years of different behaviour that can be contextualised in a different way which has all led to me changing my opinion somewhat. But when people say that they have to be together because of their early behaviour I'm really inclined to disagree, to me it's almost that they could be together in spite of their early behaviour seeming quite over the top and attention seeking.

(I'm not saying they are/were trying to queerbait btw - although only a few years ago it was a different time and I don't think anyone's intentions were bad in doing that stuff. I actually think it was a response to the kind of 'toxic masculinity' around in other cultures/subcultures. In the emo/scene subculture, men were definitely encouraged to be more sensitive/vulnerable and I think this was part of it. Dan and Phil both seem to be quite sensitive and not traditionally 'manly' men too and I can see how the scene might have appealed to them because of this)

Obviously have to really stress that this is all very much my opinion, based on my perception formed by the bands I listened to, friends I had, area I grew up in, etc in the mid-late 00's. And I could be way off. But wouldn't be surprised to hear other people feel the same.

This is all very interesting to me as I'm old and didn't know about this being a thing. One thing I feel may set deppy apart, or maybe was just a line they didn't want to cross if it was just to build a following, is that they never actually kissed, held hands, or anything on camera. Also, they actually both did state they were bi. Plus, Phil only had one bed in his first apartment and the couch was too short to sleep on unless it was a sofa bed. I mean, they could've just slept in the same bed platonically when Dan visited. I do think they are together now, but now I'm not so sure about what was going on back then between them.