Dan & Phil Part 49: Don't curl, quiff

000dia000 · Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:17 pm

http://danielhowell.tumblr.com/post/162633763613

This is a very niche reference, I wonder if Dan actually knows anything about RPDR or even the Babadook is gay meme, or did he just reblog because lol random (as you can tell, this is very important to me)

somethingsketchy · Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:32 pm

000dia000 wrote:http://danielhowell.tumblr.com/post/162633763613

This is a very niche reference, I wonder if Dan actually knows anything about RPDR or even the Babadook is gay meme, or did he just reblog because lol random (as you can tell, this is very important to me)

He mentioned Babadook in his last ls before VidCon ("a FIDGET SPINNER for my bday"). Here's the timestamp:

alittledizzy wrote:20:40 - Babadook is an icon of equality; he loves the meme but hopes people have seen the movie.

BuffyFiona · Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:49 pm

Hello all! I've been lurking since I got into deppy in March, finally gave up on the idea that this was just a passing interest, accepted that I am fully , and made an account!

fancybum wrote: 52:35 “In any fandom, there’s just these conspiracies that are just like so insane"
-listen, we're all just trying to pass the time

I know everyone sorta got hung up on how the YOI thing from the liveshow relates to deppy's situation and the phandom, but the above is the part which really made me think about how Dan views our perception of their relationship. As has been said many times over, since YOI is fictional and also comes from a completely different sociopolitical context (my impression is that attitudes/norms about LGBT people, relationships, and representation are quite different in Japan/anime than in Western cultures/media, but I'm no expert), it's not really applicable to deppy imo. However, this comment when he was discussing how far certain individuals in fandoms, specifically Cole Sprouse fans, will go to come up with some cockamamie conspiracy theories seemed like he would have also been thinking about his own fandom's conspiracies.

I don't mean the are they/aren't they debate, because people on all sides of these debates seem to (from what I've seen) quickly devolve into , some of them just for fun and some seemingly seriously. I don't think there's very much inherently wrong in this, as, like fancybum said, we're just trying to pass the time. I know that's why I even got into this fandom (that's a long post for later), basically I wanted to know why everyone seemed to me, as an outsider, to be tinhatting so hard. It was the "conspiracy theories" that drew me in, but once I looked into it, it seemed to be more interesting that the theories about them being together or not didn't actually seem like conspiracy theories (as in, a group of conspirators aiming to cover up the truth about something, like the gov and aliens, or New Line Cinema and Domlijah).

However, despite the idea of them being a couple not being a conspiracy theory in and of itself, there are so many conspiracies in the phandom all the time it seems, some joking and some less so, like Phil being married to Janice or whoever it was and having kids, or deppy buying two different apartments and conspiring to make it seem like they still live together (which maybe is also a joke because this made no sense to me). These go against the evident facts and require much more lying and cover ups on deppy's part, as well as much more defying logic on the fans' parts. It's also interesting to me that these theories tend to be more anti-phan than pro-phan, which is extremely unusual in terms of RPFs with tinhatters (which in itself refers to conspiracy theorists and implies this fact-denying behavior and accusations of cover-ups in DEFENSE of a ship, not against it).

Anyway, that part of the livestream just made me wonder, how many of these far out conspiracy theories does Dan see, and how does he feel about them? He made it seem like he was aware it's just part of fan culture, so I suppose he's at peace with it.

Viofish · Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:50 pm

a little random, but I wonder if dan and phil randomly tweet old tweet drafts to stay active. like tweet drafts that could possibly be from 2 years ago.

I was watching the first " A Sleepless Night With Phil" and at 0:45 he's like, "I thought I heard an owl but I think it was just a drunk person pretending to be an owl."

now practically 2 years later he tweeted something strikingly similar

unless he heard another drunk guy making owl noises on his street again, this was probably saved in his drafts lmaoo

cherrybomb3 · Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:52 pm

BuffyFiona wrote: Anyway, that part of the livestream just made me wonder, how many of these far out conspiracy theories does Dan see, and how does he feel about them? He made it seem like he was aware it's just part of fan culture, so I suppose he's at peace with it.

i mean tbf there is an entire thread about just that subject in this very corner of the internet. conspiracies are pretty hard to miss in fandoms (not judging tho love a good conspiracy)

saffarinda · Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:57 pm

Viofish wrote:a little random, but I wonder if dan and phil randomly tweet old tweet drafts to stay active. like tweet drafts that could possibly be from 2 years ago.

I was watching the first " A Sleepless Night With Phil" and at 0:45 he's like, "I thought I heard an owl but I think it was just a drunk person pretending to be an owl."

now practically 2 years later he tweeted something strikingly similar

unless he heard another drunk guy making owl noises on his street again, this was probably saved in his drafts lmaoo

Nice spot... wow that's interesting. I wouldn't doubt it. I remember Phil talking about how Dan would start worrying slightly and asking for help on thinking of something funny to tweet because he felt he had to tweet at least once a week (I think this was a while ago).

I'm just craving that new gaming vid m8, idk bout y'all.

Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:12 pm

onetruetrash wrote:[offtopic]Does anyone know when the results of the Phandom survey will be posted?[/offtopic]

We've got a specific date of between now and the next survey. Once we've got some stuff together, we'll get a better timetable out to people.

queerofcups · Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:18 pm

Ah yes, I think I might have asked my question poorly, and really, probably to the wrong crowd.

I guess my question is really wondering what's going to be the thing that makes the folks who still think he's straight after years of talking about being attracted to multiple genders. though i suspect y'all are right and the answer is nothing because, as fancybum said...~what if he's joking~~~

I actually think the Babadook/Drag Race reblog falls into a pretty typical Dan formula of being a relevant meme/piece of pop culture that could be interpreted as him being ~hip and also ~inclusive.

But the LGBT post. That felt niche as all hell (is the "can i get a uhhhh" a relevant meme in mainstream internet spaces???) and like, well, it felt like someone joking along with their community. I don't know! Ignore me! I just have a lot of feelings about Dan and tumblr and also willful queer erasure.

neetbuzzer · Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:48 pm

But the LGBT post. That felt niche as all hell (is the "can i get a uhhhh" a relevant meme in mainstream internet spaces???) and like, well, it felt like someone joking along with their community.

I completely agree! I actually reblogged a seemingly ~not queer~ shitpost of his as a Token Pride Post, haha; his tumblr is looking more and more like one of the queer peeps I follow, and less like some unfortunate "no homo I'm just playing it up for the camera~~~" nonsense.

I know some people go ham with the "A is for Ally" thing, but I don't know a single straight person who would reblog the stuff he has been lately. One or two things, sure, but that many posts? That specific?

nephilimcat · Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:11 pm

Katka wrote:Yeah, I assume he's not straight from the way he talks about who he's attracted to. It's clearly not jokes at this point so he's basically out as not straight and since he has literally said he does not like labels, I guess that's that. There doesn't need to be a confirmation here, I think, or more like there has been a confirmation since Dan talks about liking guys the same way he talks about liking women. Isn't that a confirmation? Straight guys usually don't do that.

I mean, joking about liking guys for months would be downright malicious. Dan is educated enough on these things that he knows how harmful that would be so I can't quite understand how people can seriously think he's "just joking, lol". He's not that kind of person at all.

Honestly, this discussion always pops up and I'm so confused how people just don't see this. Why is it so hard, even for some people who want him to be attracted to guys, to see his own words as a confirmation? It's not even just oblivious straight people or homophobic assholes. Open your eyes, people, the answers are right there. I don't know, it's exhausting how often he's read as straight. I'm probably very sensitive because people read me as straight as well, even though I literally came out to them. It's frustrating and annoying and I wonder if Dan is annoyed about this as well or if he doesn't care (anymore)

pilotlight wrote: He could literally marry a dude and some people would be like "It's tOtAlLy fOr TaX pUrPoSes, he's dEfinAtelY str8"

I don't know whether I should laugh or cry because this is not even a stretch :wtf:

I don't even know why I still participate in these discussions, I feel like a broken record because I always say the same stuff. I just can't shut up

onetruetrash · Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:27 pm

nephilimcat wrote:
Katka wrote:Yeah, I assume he's not straight from the way he talks about who he's attracted to. It's clearly not jokes at this point so he's basically out as not straight and since he has literally said he does not like labels, I guess that's that. There doesn't need to be a confirmation here, I think, or more like there has been a confirmation since Dan talks about liking guys the same way he talks about liking women. Isn't that a confirmation? Straight guys usually don't do that.

I mean, joking about liking guys for months would be downright malicious. Dan is educated enough on these things that he knows how harmful that would be so I can't quite understand how people can seriously think he's "just joking, lol". He's not that kind of person at all.
Honestly, this discussion always pops up and I'm so confused how people just don't see this. Why is it so hard, even for some people who want him to be attracted to guys, to see his own words as a confirmation? It's not even just oblivious straight people or homophobic assholes. Open your eyes, people, the answers are right there. I don't know, it's exhausting how often he's read as straight. I'm probably very sensitive because people read me as straight as well, even though I literally came out to them. It's frustrating and annoying and I wonder if Dan is annoyed about this as well or if he doesn't care (anymore)

That's what I'm trying to say! It's so annoying when someone thinks they could be straight. I mean, I kinda understand why people might say that about Phil since Phil's only comment regarding his sexuality was back in in 2010 and not many people know about it. But Dan more or less came out in his diss track, which is one of his most viewed videos and has been out for less than a year.

neetbuzzer · Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:35 pm

onetruetrash wrote: That's what I'm trying to say! It's so annoying when someone thinks they could be straight. I mean, I kinda understand why people might say that about Phil since Phil's only comment regarding his sexuality was back in in 2010 and not many people know about it. But Dan more or less came out in his diss track, which is one of his most viewed videos and has been out for less than a year.

I think the jokey-not-jokey tone of the song gives the no homo brigade juuuuust enough ambiguity cover that they think it actually bolsters their arguments, and that's so frustrating to meeeeeeeeeeee AHHHHHHH

It sucks, and I agree that dude could marry Phil in a public ceremony on the British equivalent of LogoTV with RuPaul herself officiating, and then livestream the fucking honeymoon afterwards and people would still be like "...but it's just a joke? Don't you joke with YOUR ~queerplatonic~ friends like that? BFFs 4eva lol" and I just

Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:44 pm

onetruetrash wrote:That's what I'm trying to say! It's so annoying when someone thinks they could be straight. I mean, I kinda understand why people might say that about Phil since Phil's only comment regarding his sexuality was back in in 2010 and not many people know about it. But Dan more or less came out in his diss track, which is one of his most viewed videos and has been out for less than a year.

Idk, I feel like by now Phil's pretty regularly mentioning non-female attraction as well. He's not as overt or crassly sexual as Dan but I'm also not sure why anyone would default him to straight anymore either except by the logic that because he's not as loud as Dan his behavior counts for less. I feel like if you (the general you, not trying to say you're specifically doing this, onetruetrash!) judge Dan and Phil by their own standards and personalities and past behavior instead of comparing them, the it's pretty clear Phil has also veered hard away from his days of being afraid of being perceived as not straight.

neetbuzzer wrote:It sucks, and I agree that dude could marry Phil in a public ceremony on the British equivalent of LogoTV with RuPaul herself officiating, and then livestream the fucking honeymoon afterwards and people would still be like "...but it's just a joke? Don't you joke with YOUR ~queerplatonic~ friends like that? BFFs 4eva lol" and I just

I just got a cold chill. I can see it now.

"I just don't think that the marriage really means we can assume anything, because I also have a best friend and we also got platonic married and I think Dan and Phil are just a lot like us. /shrug"

000dia000 · Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:53 pm

neetbuzzer wrote:
onetruetrash wrote: That's what I'm trying to say! It's so annoying when someone thinks they could be straight. I mean, I kinda understand why people might say that about Phil since Phil's only comment regarding his sexuality was back in in 2010 and not many people know about it. But Dan more or less came out in his diss track, which is one of his most viewed videos and has been out for less than a year.
I think the jokey-not-jokey tone of the song gives the no homo brigade juuuuust enough ambiguity cover that they think it actually bolsters their arguments, and that's so frustrating to meeeeeeeeeeee AHHHHHHH

It sucks, and I agree that dude could marry Phil in a public ceremony on the British equivalent of LogoTV with RuPaul herself officiating, and then livestream the fucking honeymoon afterwards and people would still be like "...but it's just a joke? Don't you joke with YOUR ~queerplatonic~ friends like that? BFFs 4eva lol" and I just

Okay, I honestly see a lot of comments like "why do people still think they're straight" as if it's divided argument....comments like this on IDB are literally a minority, just trolling or people not wanting to admit it. I honestly don't think that there is definite proof of their relationship, so I stay away from calling them by that, but anybody insinuating that they're straight or making male attraction mentions "because all my friends do it" need to take a step back, think about why Dan and Phil have been mentioning these things, and what they are implying. Clear as day. I think anybody with eyes and ears can see that they're obviously not straight, why is this still an argument? There's just so much proof, those who say otherwise are just laughable. Honestly, just let those who don't want to see the truth live in their little fantasies, the fact remains that Dan and Phil don't need approval of their sexuality by their audience. Even if by some minute, sick chance both of them are "straight", then nothing can change that. They're people, not something that has to be proved "canon".

onetruetrash · Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:26 pm

alittledizzy wrote:
onetruetrash wrote:That's what I'm trying to say! It's so annoying when someone thinks they could be straight. I mean, I kinda understand why people might say that about Phil since Phil's only comment regarding his sexuality was back in in 2010 and not many people know about it. But Dan more or less came out in his diss track, which is one of his most viewed videos and has been out for less than a year.
Idk, I feel like by now Phil's pretty regularly mentioning non-female attraction as well. He's not as overt or crassly sexual as Dan but I'm also not sure why anyone would default him to straight anymore either except by the logic that because he's not as loud as Dan his behavior counts for less. I feel like if you (the general you, not trying to say you're specifically doing this, onetruetrash!) judge Dan and Phil by their own standards and personalities and past behavior instead of comparing them, the it's pretty clear Phil has also veered hard away from his days of being afraid of being perceived as not straight.

Yeah, I totally agree! It probably has to do with the fact that Dan talks about his attraction far more than Phil. Just take a look at felucca's attraction playlists. Dan has made 400+ on camera attraction mentions and Phil has only 100+ on-camera attraction mentions. Despite the fact that Phil is not straight (at least imo but it seems obvious to me), confusion is understandable since he's much more ambiguous than Dan.

I also wanna note that I'm not saying it's okay to assume he's straight, but I understand if people are unsure of his sexuality because Phil has only talked about it once in a Formspring answer that not many people know about and Phil is very ambiguous.

I also find it's people who are either new to or not very deep into the Phandom who are unsure. Maybe to us it seems clear, but to more casual viewers and even not-deep Phandom members, maybe not.

lurker · Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:39 pm

queerofcups wrote:Ah yes, I think I might have asked my question poorly, and really, probably to the wrong crowd.

I guess my question is really wondering what's going to be the thing that makes the folks who still think he's straight after years of talking about being attracted to multiple genders. though i suspect y'all are right and the answer is nothing because, as fancybum said...~what if he's joking~~~

i definitely misunderstood the tone of your question, woops. i personally don't think there's anything besides a spelled-out coming out in a video, liveshow, or tweet that'd convince everybody, as sad and frustrating as it is. i'm even on the fence with regards to the tweet -- i can see people at least initually arguing that it might be someone else tweeting from his phone or a joke. and i think he'd either have to label himself or go down the "i, dan howell, and i'm speaking for myself right now, and i'm not joking, want to announce that i am not straight" route, at least i'm not optimistic that a casual mention would do (see: the diss track).

which is so incredibly frustrating when at the same time other people are inspired by his approach and want to reject the idea that every lgbt+ person has to do a Formal Coming Out and Official Labelling and get encouraged by him to try to just be out but then, unfortunately, Heteronormativity.

BuffyFiona · Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:49 pm

neetbuzzer wrote: I think the jokey-not-jokey tone of the song gives the no homo brigade juuuuust enough ambiguity cover that they think it actually bolsters their arguments, and that's so frustrating to meeeeeeeeeeee AHHHHHHH

It sucks, and I agree that dude could marry Phil in a public ceremony on the British equivalent of LogoTV with RuPaul herself officiating, and then livestream the fucking honeymoon afterwards and people would still be like "...but it's just a joke? Don't you joke with YOUR ~queerplatonic~ friends like that? BFFs 4eva lol" and I just

I get where you're coming from because it is super frustrating how much people are willing to rely on the "it was just a joke!!!!" excuse, but I also think that's way more characteristic of a queer public figure who wants to keep their private life private than a socially aware, liberal straight person. One example from another fandom: actor Nathan Lane wasn't technically publicly "out" until 1999, but for years before that he was always making jokes about his sexuality to the press instead of giving actual answers, in a way which allowed him to avoid lying but also not making a serious, official statement which he thought would overshadow his work as an actor. When he eventually did come out, it was due to very serious events which he felt he needed to respond to as an openly gay man (Matthew Shepard's death).

I think if you add in Dan's dislike of concrete labels, Lane's reasoning might explain the "joking" tone of some of Dan's sexuality mentions, if he doesn't want to come out and have it be made a Thing that overshadows his work, but also doesn't want to lie or try to "pass" as straight or just say nothing. I mean maybe that's not why, maybe it's just because he basically jokes about everything. Just because he's made jokes about having existential crises doesn't mean he's never had serious struggles with them. Long story short I think the fact that he makes these jokey references to male attraction and sexuality actually makes it seem more like he's not straight to me. I'm pretty sure I've seen alittledizzy make these same points but I was just really reminded of this example from my own knowledge.

Also, when Nathan Lane did come out in The Advocate, he said "I just assume a lot of people know. It's never been something I kept a secret," which I feel like might be similar to Dan's state of mind as well.

neetbuzzer · Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:20 pm

BuffyFiona wrote:
I get where you're coming from because it is super frustrating how much people are willing to rely on the "it was just a joke!!!!" excuse, but I also think that's way more characteristic of a queer public figure who wants to keep their private life private than a socially aware, liberal straight person. One example from another fandom: actor Nathan Lane wasn't technically publicly "out" until 1999, but for years before that he was always making jokes about his sexuality to the press instead of giving actual answers, in a way which allowed him to avoid lying but also not making a serious, official statement which he thought would overshadow his work as an actor. When he eventually did come out, it was due to very serious events which he felt he needed to respond to as an openly gay man (Matthew Shepard's death).

I think if you add in Dan's dislike of concrete labels, Lane's reasoning might explain the "joking" tone of some of Dan's sexuality mentions, if he doesn't want to come out and have it be made a Thing that overshadows his work, but also doesn't want to lie or try to "pass" as straight or just say nothing. I mean maybe that's not why, maybe it's just because he basically jokes about everything. Just because he's made jokes about having existential crises doesn't mean he's never had serious struggles with them. Long story short I think the fact that he makes these jokey references to male attraction and sexuality actually makes it seem more like he's not straight to me. I'm pretty sure I've seen alittledizzy make these same points but I was just really reminded of this example from my own knowledge.

Also, when Nathan Lane did come out in The Advocate, he said "I just assume a lot of people know. It's never been something I kept a secret," which I feel like might be similar to Dan's state of mind as well.

I actually totally agree and that's what I was trying to say, haha! Guess I didn't do so hot on that front, though. But yeah, when I mentioned the jokey tone and the frustration thing I meant that I was frustrated at the idea of straight people capitalizing on that to negate that jokes like that are a way to sidle on out the ol' closet. I mean as much as I'd love a coming out situation, I don't think it's owed to us or anything like that. And frankly, I don't expect it anytime soon (if at all). They really seem like "live out, don't come out" peeps and although angry bb queer me used to get grumpy about representation on youtube, old tired me knows that people gotta people and live their lives, and they owe me, A Fellow Queermo, precisely fuckall.

And I actually came out (or like... pregamed my coming out? lmao) with "jokes" like Dan's, for years; basically everyone I cared about knew I was bi af before I actually Made A Declaration, haha. Honestly it was probs a relief to them because they maybe thought the jokes would stop they were wrong tho oop

Basically, your post is the eloquent, elegant older sister to my grubby underachieving hermit of an attempt .

Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:19 pm

Timestamps for Dan's liveshow yesterday!

iwishiwasacasual · Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:43 pm

well consider me politely told off
anyone else surprised that dan wasn't more defensive about his last video? i was expecting his usual "people who take stuff too seriously are stupid, it was just a shitpost" response.

Susanisnotafish · Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:50 pm

Thanks Dizzy for the hilariously annotated timestamps. I noticed the lie about having a bbq too. Maybe he wasn't there tho? Maybe it was a Phil only thing. Or maybe duh duh duh PHIL lied? :gg:

Anyway these came at just the right time as I was about to rewatch the ls.

BuffyFiona · Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:58 pm

alittledizzy wrote: 7:19 - Little fact: the Reasons Why Dan's a Fail jingle is him and Phil singing while he plays a "cringe stylophone."

Am I mistaken in remembering that Phil actually got him a stylophone for Christmas in 2009 or 2010? If so, how dare Dan call it cringe! Or maybe he was calling his playing cringe... or something... But also I love the image of Phil giving him the stylophone and then them messing around with it together and recording the jingle together...

Susanisnotafish · Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:10 am

BuffyFiona wrote:
alittledizzy wrote: 7:19 - Little fact: the Reasons Why Dan's a Fail jingle is him and Phil singing while he plays a "cringe stylophone."
Am I mistaken in remembering that Phil actually got him a stylophone for Christmas in 2009 or 2010? If so, how dare Dan call it cringe! Or maybe he was calling his playing cringe... or something... But also I love the image of Phil giving him the stylophone and then them messing around with it together and recording the jingle together...

You're right! Maybe his memory is going! I love that image too! Someone should write a fic about this

sapienveneficus · Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:10 am

queerofcups wrote:Speaking of other queer shit! Dan's latest reblogs have left me with a question. Where's the tipping point, in the posts he reblogs or the jokes or references about his own attraction that he makes--when are we like ok, yeah, that's a queer dude. Or at least a not-straight dude. Because the shit he's just reblogged would look right at home on my own queer af tumblr, and feel much like in-community jokes to me. But I'm biased.

So is there anything he can do short of being like "I, Daniel Howell am [insert non-straight identity here]" that would confirm that he's not, in fact, straight?

This is something I wonder about as well. As someone who made the leap from casual fan to the more active, IDB reading variety of fan this year, I no longer read Dan as straight. But, before making that leap, I honestly wasn't sure. I think a lot of casual fans are probably in a similar boat, especially if they've been around for awhile. A big reason might be simply that Dan's only ever spoken about dating girls on his channel. Yes, he's made mentions of male attraction, and those of us who watch liveshows, keep up with his social media posts, and parse his videos for subtext have gotten pretty good at picking up what he's throwing down. But I would imagine that a lot of casual fans aren't getting that. Straight guys saying that other guys are attractive has become more common place, especially in online spaces. I think that explains the popularity of hashtags like mancrushmonday.

So I would wager, for casual fans, that a tipping point would be Dan talking about going on a date with a guy in one of his videos. Content like that wouldn't be abstract or vague and couldn't be interpreted as funny or casual. Now, of course, knowing what I think I know about Dan's views on his own privacy, I doubt he would ever say something so direct. But, in terms of a tipping point for casual fans, I think that would be it.

sapienveneficus · Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:11 am

Whoops, double post for some reason.