Dan & Phil Part 56: Phanthony! at the Disco

[malday]

an example: when dan seemed to imply he was not enjoying Yuri On Ice especially much and said that it was "queerbaiting." Now, i don't think YOI queerbaits, and iirc most of the people who weighed in on it here didn't think so either, so it was surprising that dan did. there was much discussion had about the broader context in which the anime was developed, such as how the director had to navigate japanese broadcasting standards. is it problematic to not understand that context, perhaps assuming that the broadcasting standards, etc are the same as in the UK where entirely unambiguous representation of same sex couples is possible? I'd say it's narrow minded.

I think he was questioning if, not implying it was queerbaiting, because that's what the discussion around the show was.
And I don't think there was any clear consensus that YOI was indeed censored because of broadcasting standards and not because the creators simply chose to be ambiguous about that scene. I think that's what Dan was getting at.

[Birdie]

Since YOI is a mainstream sports anime and Japanese mainstream media simply doens't allow obvious queer representation outside the niche, I think it's safe to say the creators didn't have much choice, no matter what they might've originally wanted to do. They were pushing the envelope as is.

I'm totally late but I loved Phil's latest video so much. Seeing him in light jeans was a bit of a revelation, they suite him so well! Light jeans with a dark shirt would totally be a look on him, I don't think he's too pale for it at all. I also loved the big fluffy coat and would totally wear it. It's not really Phil's style and all but it's so pretty! Anyways, I just really liked seeing Phil wear different clothes from his usual style even though half of them were ridiculous.

Also those notes are hilarious and I wish I knew what they meant.

[Catallena]

I kinda expected a gaming video today. I'm bored At least the obligatory tweets of the day were good.

PS I know it doesn't matter and the conversation has moved on but I find it totally believable Phil doesn't have Whatsapp. We have good phone plans in the UK and lots of people do use it but I never saw the point: you've got texts, email, Facebook Messenger, etc. if you need to get hold of people.

lol If someone texts me they're automatically removed out of my life because some bih actually thinks they're important and exclusive enough for me to waste extra money on them. Normal texts are expensive as hell. Cool if you have unlimited texting but I don't and I ain't wasting precious data by wasting the money on a text. The bulk of my Whatsapp usage is done at places where there's wifi so it doesn't cost me shit, and calling via the app has been a blessing since my best friend moved to the UK as well. No extra costs for either of us Using email just to chat seems like a inbox clogging nightmare and Facebook Messenger was uninteresting for me. Everyone already used WA when FBM was released and it only allowed non FB users to use it 2 years ago (yes I'm one of those people).

[malday]

Since YOI is a mainstream sports anime and Japanese mainstream media simply doens't allow obvious queer representation outside the niche, I think it's safe to say the creators didn't have much choice, no matter what they might've originally wanted to do. They were pushing the envelope as is.

I'm not an expert, (and don't really care about the show) but there were actually conflicting reports about that being the case or not, with examples of other shows that didn't get censored while not being categorized in the niche. So i can't blame Dan for questioning it (although i don't even think he was being that serious about it).

[Birdie]

Man, all I know is that Japan's mainstream media "representation" of queer people is horrible and cliche riddled and queer characters outside of the niche are rare and often very cliched and basically used as some sort of comic relief character. Japan has a super interesting queer subculture but it doesn't reflect in mainstream media at all and queer people are usually used as jokes. The interesting thing about YOI, to me at least, was that Victor and Yuuri were not presented as jokes, sinful, perverse, overly sexualised or whatever, but instead as a normal serious couple. I think (!) the creators might've tried to keep this one out of the yaoi niche where it would probably have gone, all prejudices towards the genre attached, if the relationship had been portrayed more explicitly. Idk, this is super complicated and it's not so much about actual censoring than about sentiments towards queerness and how it gets to be portrayed in Japanese mainstream media and how queer media and yaoi are viewed by Japanese (and Western) audiences. My main beef with Dan back then was that I found it ignorant that he seemed to apply Western standards to Japanese media (like twix has said). But all of this happened months ago and it's all good now. I just really find this interesting and I love YOI. (If my rambling doesn't make sense, I'm sorry, I'm super tired. )

[alittledizzy]

I missed this earlier where Phil said they're all more than a year old. Truth, or just him fortifying his excuse for not giving any context? Because I feel certain he does remember context of some of those, and they're just funnier without.

[ArtyJim]

I missed this earlier where Phil said they're all more than a year old. Truth, or just him fortifying his excuse for not giving any context? Because I feel certain he does remember context of some of those, and they're just funnier without.

if someone has already said this then i missed it but the one that says "potatoes fly. indeed." is from their impossible quiz videos. it's the wingding question.

[freesocks]

My main beef with Dan back then was that I found it ignorant that he seemed to apply Western standards to Japanese media (like twix has said).

I think its very normal to apply our own experiences/knowledge/cultural norms to things when attempting to make sense of various things in the world around us, unless we learn otherwise, which is probably one of the reasons why Dan (and Phil) avoid going too in depth in the live shows (although it would be cool if there was a way to have more deeper discussions because I am genuinely interested in their opinions). I know I have rolled my eyes in the past at Dan discussing American politics, but I can't really blame him for not having a deep understanding of our political system when a large portion of Americans don't have a basic understanding. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US we really do not learn about non-Western culture/history/standards in high school, or at least I did not. I've learned more about different cultures from having most of my coworkers be from different parts of the world than I did in the entirety of my education. I generally get the impression that Dan is someone who wants to learn, but unfortunately "show us your chins" is a lot easier to type into chat haha.

[alittledizzy]

My main beef with Dan back then was that I found it ignorant that he seemed to apply Western standards to Japanese media (like twix has said).

I think its very normal to apply our own experiences/knowledge/cultural norms to things when attempting to make sense of various things in the world around us, unless we learn otherwise, which is probably one of the reasons why Dan (and Phil) avoid going too in depth in the live shows (although it would be cool if there was a way to have more deeper discussions because I am genuinely interested in their opinions). I know I have rolled my eyes in the past at Dan discussing American politics, but I can't really blame him for not having a deep understanding of our political system when a large portion of Americans don't have a basic understanding. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US we really do not learn about non-Western culture/history/standards in high school, or at least I did not. I've learned more about different cultures from having most of my coworkers be from different parts of the world than I did in the entirety of my education. I generally get the impression that Dan is someone who wants to learn, but unfortunately "show us your chins" is a lot easier to type into chat haha.

I do generally fall into the opinion that it's frustrating when Dan tries to voice/assert an opinion on something and he's not entirely educated on the topic, I think this is actually a great example of what Dan's diss track means. I think it's got to have had some kind of 'don't touch the oven' effect on him mentally, too. A lot of phandom want Dan (and Phil, but that seems more unrealistic) to use their platform but when Dan does try to speak up about something and get it wrong I think the response probably feels so intensely negative and frustrating that he's less and less likely to try again.

Which is actually one reason I'm surprised he's still talking about mental health and defending his 'dark' humor. He has to have seen the criticism, he has to know there are people who get upset that he makes jokes about wanting death, etc, but apparently this is actually a hill he's prepared to die on whether or not people tell him he's problematic for it. And I'm actually okay with that, because I feel like he has a solid perspective and response to people who don't like what he's expressing and how.

So basically: I think when something is important enough to Dan he's still willing to express opinions even if he gets backlash for it. I think the opinions he's unwilling to express are the ones phandom wants him to share more than he himself actually wants to share. (But maybe it's also true that if a topic just isn't that pivotal to his daily life or if he doesn't feel like putting the time into educating himself, he's probably better off not casually sharing a controversial opinion with an audience of millions.)

[sparkle]

My main beef with Dan back then was that I found it ignorant that he seemed to apply Western standards to Japanese media (like twix has said).

I think its very normal to apply our own experiences/knowledge/cultural norms to things when attempting to make sense of various things in the world around us, unless we learn otherwise, which is probably one of the reasons why Dan (and Phil) avoid going too in depth in the live shows (although it would be cool if there was a way to have more deeper discussions because I am genuinely interested in their opinions). I know I have rolled my eyes in the past at Dan discussing American politics, but I can't really blame him for not having a deep understanding of our political system when a large portion of Americans don't have a basic understanding. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US we really do not learn about non-Western culture/history/standards in high school, or at least I did not. I've learned more about different cultures from having most of my coworkers be from different parts of the world than I did in the entirety of my education. I generally get the impression that Dan is someone who wants to learn, but unfortunately "show us your chins" is a lot easier to type into chat haha.

With my Sociology hat on. Basically, you're socialised into your dominant culture (in this case British) and then apply your standards onto other things. So to a UK audience something like YOI may not be incredibly groundbreaking because, in contrast to Japan where it is. Different expectations of media because of the different socialisations you experience in Japan versus the UK. I think its fine to discuss the possibility of it queer baiting, because that does lead into an interesting discussion of how Japanese broadcasting standards made it appear that way. Sadly, a liveshow isnt exactly the time for them to have that sort of discussion.

I also think that call-out culture means he's wary of talking about anything too controversial. If Dan said he voted Conservative (which would make sense fiscally because he earns a lot of money and owns a business, the Conservatives are big on low tax rates which would directly benefit him) can you imagine the reaction? If Phil said he voted Conservative, can you imagine the reaction? Despite it being actually a rationale I would be interested to hear from either of them. Because of the fear of the backlash, we're never going to hear anything like this from either of them.

in other news - Dans instagram photo is

[freesocks]

My main beef with Dan back then was that I found it ignorant that he seemed to apply Western standards to Japanese media (like twix has said).

I think its very normal to apply our own experiences/knowledge/cultural norms to things when attempting to make sense of various things in the world around us, unless we learn otherwise, which is probably one of the reasons why Dan (and Phil) avoid going too in depth in the live shows (although it would be cool if there was a way to have more deeper discussions because I am genuinely interested in their opinions). I know I have rolled my eyes in the past at Dan discussing American politics, but I can't really blame him for not having a deep understanding of our political system when a large portion of Americans don't have a basic understanding. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US we really do not learn about non-Western culture/history/standards in high school, or at least I did not. I've learned more about different cultures from having most of my coworkers be from different parts of the world than I did in the entirety of my education. I generally get the impression that Dan is someone who wants to learn, but unfortunately "show us your chins" is a lot easier to type into chat haha.

I do generally fall into the opinion that it's frustrating when Dan tries to voice/assert an opinion on something and he's not entirely educated on the topic, I think this is actually a great example of what Dan's diss track means. I think it's got to have had some kind of 'don't touch the oven' effect on him mentally, too. A lot of phandom want Dan (and Phil, but that seems more unrealistic) to use their platform but when Dan does try to speak up about something and get it wrong I think the response probably feels so intensely negative and frustrating that he's less and less likely to try again.

Which is actually one reason I'm surprised he's still talking about mental health and defending his 'dark' humor. He has to have seen the criticism, he has to know there are people who get upset that he makes jokes about wanting death, etc, but apparently this is actually a hill he's prepared to die on whether or not people tell him he's problematic for it. And I'm actually okay with that, because I feel like he has a solid perspective and response to people who don't like what he's expressing and how.

So basically: I think when something is important enough to Dan he's still willing to express opinions even if he gets backlash for it. I think the opinions he's unwilling to express are the ones phandom wants him to share more than he himself actually wants to share. (But maybe it's also true that if a topic just isn't that pivotal to his daily life or if he doesn't feel like putting the time into educating himself, he's probably better off not casually sharing a controversial opinion with an audience of millions.)

I agree with this and I also think their is another aspect that probably makes talking about more complex subjects frustrating and that is the age/maturity/level of education of his audience. I'm not sure what the exact demographics are (I would pay money to see them), but I mentioned yesterday a compilation video I saw which was listing ways they found Dan "problematic" and one of the examples that stood out to me the most was Dan talking about (too lazy to find the exact quote) feminism and how the definition has been manipulated to the point where people rail against it out of ignorance and misunderstanding without understanding what it is and why its important. The person making this obviously did not understand that he was pro-feminism and making that point in a way that is more in depth and insightful re current events than just saying "I support feminism," which has to be very frustrating. I think it must be very very difficult to have a good idea of what your audience can and cannot grasp when it is constantly changing and you have no visual feedback and very little verbal (written) feedback while you are trying to explain something. Just thinking about how many times I have to clarify statements that I make in forums or on my own blog is giving me a whole new appreciation for the fact that he even goes beyond very shallow topics at all.

[autumnhearth]

Good discussions going on. I don't want to interrupt, but I wanted to get other people's opinions. What do you all think that dark folded cloth area is?



The person who posted this zoomed in screenshot on Tumblr claimed it was "the balcony" by which I assume they mean the one seen in Dan's university vid, which no... that video clearly shows white tile flooring and we've already figured they have two balconies (the second being off the upstairs kitchen). But it does kind of read as curtains. I'm just wondering what else it could be. And does it look curved to you?

Also, I wrote a long post yesterday that got swallowed up by the void, but to shorten it: I'm just pondering if Dan saying he was all set up *upstairs* to do his liveshow, is him implying the relative position from where he was then (i.e. trying to say his bedroom is downstairs, which I don't believe, see floors and door) or if the "upstairs" was just referring to the lounge's position in the duplex in general and that he just scurried off to the closest private room. I seem to recall him implying once before that his bedroom was downstairs in relation to the lounge, piano nook or kitchen, but I don't remember when.

[freesocks]

My main beef with Dan back then was that I found it ignorant that he seemed to apply Western standards to Japanese media (like twix has said).

I think its very normal to apply our own experiences/knowledge/cultural norms to things when attempting to make sense of various things in the world around us, unless we learn otherwise, which is probably one of the reasons why Dan (and Phil) avoid going too in depth in the live shows (although it would be cool if there was a way to have more deeper discussions because I am genuinely interested in their opinions). I know I have rolled my eyes in the past at Dan discussing American politics, but I can't really blame him for not having a deep understanding of our political system when a large portion of Americans don't have a basic understanding. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US we really do not learn about non-Western culture/history/standards in high school, or at least I did not. I've learned more about different cultures from having most of my coworkers be from different parts of the world than I did in the entirety of my education. I generally get the impression that Dan is someone who wants to learn, but unfortunately "show us your chins" is a lot easier to type into chat haha.

With my Sociology hat on. Basically, you're socialised into your dominant culture (in this case British) and then apply your standards onto other things. So to a UK audience something like YOI may not be incredibly groundbreaking because, in contrast to Japan where it is. Different expectations of media because of the different socialisations you experience in Japan versus the UK. I think its fine to discuss the possibility of it queer baiting, because that does lead into an interesting discussion of how Japanese broadcasting standards made it appear that way. Sadly, a liveshow isnt exactly the time for them to have that sort of discussion.

I also think that call-out culture means he's wary of talking about anything too controversial. If Dan said he voted Conservative (which would make sense fiscally because he earns a lot of money and owns a business, the Conservatives are big on low tax rates which would directly benefit him) can you imagine the reaction? If Phil said he voted Conservative, can you imagine the reaction? Despite it being actually a rationale I would be interested to hear from either of them. Because of the fear of the backlash, we're never going to hear anything like this from either of them.

in other news - Dans instagram photo is

Sorry, everyone, for the double post, but @sparkle you rock! I agree with everything you said and you said it way more eloquently than I ever could!

[confusedpanda]

Bit off topic but for those of you wondering when Louise is posting the colab, she tweeted about it earlier today.

[blackdenim]

I also think that call-out culture means he's wary of talking about anything too controversial. If Dan said he voted Conservative (which would make sense fiscally because he earns a lot of money and owns a business, the Conservatives are big on low tax rates which would directly benefit him) can you imagine the reaction? If Phil said he voted Conservative, can you imagine the reaction? Despite it being actually a rationale I would be interested to hear from either of them. Because of the fear of the backlash, we're never going to hear anything like this from either of them.

This is something I have been thinking about actually, as I am doing some research on how to get young people more politically engaged between now and whenever we have our next GE.

I don't think Dan voted Conservative this time, he tried to use his platform and was quite complimentary about Corbyn and signed Owen Jones' open letter - neither things he'd do if he was particularly right-wing. However Phil has always been fairly silent on politics (to my knowledge) and I wouldn't be surprised if he had differing political opinions to Dan - because of the fiscal reasons you mentioned, because he seems to have been raised with more 'traditional family values' than Dan, or because he's just not that politically aware/engaged. It's not very 'trendy' to be a Conservative (particularly as a young person and particularly on the internet, where in the UK at least, a lot of left-wing commentary has bled into online discourse, and vice-versa) and I know Phil doesn't like to express strong opinions anyway but even if he did, this would be an extra reason not to mention his views.

This is all speculation - I actually don't know or care to know how Dan and Phil vote, and I do think you can be friends with people from (almost) the whole political spectrum, as long as they don't support a party or movement that's actively trying to repress or harm you or people you care about. (I actually think it's dangerous to only associate with people who have the same views as you, because you end up in an echo-chamber). But I suppose what I'm saying in an extremely roundabout way is that if Phil were to 'out himself' as voting Conservative, I wouldn't be surprised and I don't know if I'm being naive but I wouldn't expect too much of a backlash from the Phandom. If Dan said in next week's live show "Poor Theresa May, I think she's a great Prime Minister and felt really sorry for her during her Party Conference speech", I think everyone would be quite surprised, and people who disagreed with that view (I assume a large portion of his audience) would probably be flabberghasted, threaten to un-stan, feel as though he'd let them down and so on. Because Dan himself has made himself more part of that call-out culture than Phil has, I suppose, which is why people seem to hold Dan to a higher/different standard than Phil for almost everything to do with social justice, etc. Or at least that's how it seems from my POV!

[freesocks]

Bit off topic but for those of you wondering when Louise is posting the colab, she tweeted about it earlier today.

Why, Louise? Why are you making us wait so long?! This tweet did make me think about how much I wish Dan and Louise would do another collab on DINOF as well as the collab he and Phil did with her for SprinkleofGlitter. I get the sense that most people here would rather see Dan and Phil do collabs with each other rather than with other people on their main channels (although I am really new here so I could be completely wrong), but I really enjoy seeing them (to be honest I watch Dan more than Phil, mostly because I have been a casual DINOF viewer for ages and his content just appeals more to me, even though I really respect Phil's creativity and wish he would let it out more on his channel) with other people because it tends to bring out different parts of their personality and generally just shakes things up a bit, especially if its someone they get along well with.

[alittledizzy]

Why, Louise? Why are you making us wait so long?! This tweet did make me think about how much I wish Dan and Louise would do another collab on DINOF as well as the collab he and Phil did with her for SprinkleofGlitter. I get the sense that most people here would rather see Dan and Phil do collabs with each other rather than with other people on their main channels (although I am really new here so I could be completely wrong), but I really enjoy seeing them (to be honest I watch Dan more than Phil, mostly because I have been a casual DINOF viewer for ages and his content just appeals more to me, even though I really respect Phil's creativity and wish he would let it out more on his channel) with other people because it tends to bring out different parts of their personality and generally just shakes things up a bit, especially if its someone they get along well with.

I actually really love Phil doing collabs with other people. The Shawna one was REALLY well received for like - two hours. And then people started looking up more about Shawna (I think at least one user here was already familiar with her) and realized that she, specifically, wasn't someone they were thrilled to support. But he and Shawna had really great chemistry and the topic was something that Phil and Shawna were both into, which made for a fun video.

It's harder to like collabs when Dan does them because Dan himself seems so inherently uncomfortable with most people. But Dan's collabs with Louise and Tyler are both always really chill and entertaining. He did - okay, with Anthony? To be honest, Phil's collab with Anthony (the dog sweater one) was a lot better to me. Dan and Anthony's was all very acted out sketch so it's really hard to gauge anything about them collabing from that.

In general I'm totally happy with them diversifying their content, though. We get an almost constant stream of Dan-and-Phil so it's really refreshing to see their dynamic with someone else now and then. I just wish Dan had more people he felt like collaborating with that he really seemed at ease around.

[liola]

I was REALLY hoping for the collab to be posted today. I was just thinking that it's been almost a week since the last DAPG video and Phil's video was what, 4 days ago? It almost feels weird when you think about the update schedule they've had so far this year.

I wonder if they're gonna post a video instead of Phil's live stream but there seem to be no reason to cancel it...Maybe a gaming live stream? They said they'd do that on weekends though so idk

In related news, I wonder if people will ask Phil about the week in march considering Dan haru-ed the whole thing?

[alittledizzy]

and then:

Okay, what is up, why are they tweeting so much? Two tweets from Phil within five hours? A picture from each of them on back to back days? Madness.

[JustMe]

Jeezz Louise..... why such a long time until you upload it?? It only gives her more time to lose the footage...

Curious if we get a video or liveshow tonight.

Also Dan's photo yesterday lowkey made me hope for an autumnal day in the life.

[freesocks]

Why, Louise? Why are you making us wait so long?! This tweet did make me think about how much I wish Dan and Louise would do another collab on DINOF as well as the collab he and Phil did with her for SprinkleofGlitter. I get the sense that most people here would rather see Dan and Phil do collabs with each other rather than with other people on their main channels (although I am really new here so I could be completely wrong), but I really enjoy seeing them (to be honest I watch Dan more than Phil, mostly because I have been a casual DINOF viewer for ages and his content just appeals more to me, even though I really respect Phil's creativity and wish he would let it out more on his channel) with other people because it tends to bring out different parts of their personality and generally just shakes things up a bit, especially if its someone they get along well with.

I actually really love Phil doing collabs with other people. The Shawna one was REALLY well received for like - two hours. And then people started looking up more about Shawna (I think at least one user here was already familiar with her) and realized that she, specifically, wasn't someone they were thrilled to support. But he and Shawna had really great chemistry and the topic was something that Phil and Shawna were both into, which made for a fun video.

It's harder to like collabs when Dan does them because Dan himself seems so inherently uncomfortable with most people. But Dan's collabs with Louise and Tyler are both always really chill and entertaining. He did - okay, with Anthony? To be honest, Phil's collab with Anthony (the dog sweater one) was a lot better to me. Dan and Anthony's was all very acted out sketch so it's really hard to gauge anything about them collabing from that.

In general I'm totally happy with them diversifying their content, though. We get an almost constant stream of Dan-and-Phil so it's really refreshing to see their dynamic with someone else now and then. I just wish Dan had more people he felt like collaborating with that he really seemed at ease around.

Oh yes, the Shawna collab. I wasn't that into it just because I know very little about anime and knowing more about Shawna, I am glad I didn't watch to be honest. Re the Anthony collabs: I actually enjoyed the collabs on both DINOF and AP more than either of the videos on Anthony's channel. I think Anthony's videos are overacted across the board and I am not sure if it is because he is used to being part of the machine that is Smosh or because he is trying to get a feel for what he wants his channel to be, but its interesting since he seems very comfortable off-script in vlogs. I liked the AP collab the most because it was the most relaxed and I thought the DINOF one had some funny parts, but I am just so over the emo thing. Remember back in the day when he made an entire video explaining how he wasn't an emo. Its just gotten old in my opinion.

I know what you mean about Dan seeming uncomfortable around other people. I am sure this topic has probably been discussed at length here, but how awkward do people think Dan actually is and how much is an act in real life? I didn;t think Dan's collabs with Conor Franta and Caspar Lee were very good (although I don't think it was all on him), but I generally find his collabs with Tyler and Louise and other people he feels comfortable around more interesting than Phil's collabs just because the DINOF persona isn't as restrictive as the AP persona as far as the PG stuff goes, since it eliminates things that their peers might do on their channels that don't fit that mold (although full disclosure: I am rather uneducated as far as AP goes, since I only started watching some of his solo videos more recently and haven't had time to go back through all the old ones which are the ones I should probably watch).

[Birdie]

I think its very normal to apply our own experiences/knowledge/cultural norms to things when attempting to make sense of various things in the world around us, unless we learn otherwise, which is probably one of the reasons why Dan (and Phil) avoid going too in depth in the live shows (although it would be cool if there was a way to have more deeper discussions because I am genuinely interested in their opinions). I know I have rolled my eyes in the past at Dan discussing American politics, but I can't really blame him for not having a deep understanding of our political system when a large portion of Americans don't have a basic understanding. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US we really do not learn about non-Western culture/history/standards in high school, or at least I did not. I've learned more about different cultures from having most of my coworkers be from different parts of the world than I did in the entirety of my education. I generally get the impression that Dan is someone who wants to learn, but unfortunately "show us your chins" is a lot easier to type into chat haha.

Yes, absolutely! I think Dan's YOI comments were totally spur of the moment. It was a liveshow after all and I don't think he really thought about it before he said it so that might explain why he seemed ignorant. But I'm with dizzy, I don't think it's good when he shares uninformed opinions with his millions of followers. The YOI thing also fed into a pretty heated discussion about the anime that went down at the time. I mean, it's not "problematic" to not know everything about Japanese media of course but it's a problem when Western viewers tear down a pretty progressive piece of Japanese media because they apply their own cultural standards to it. Sparkle said it a lot better, I basically agree with her but I'd like to add that just because something doesn't seem progressive to Western viewers doesn't mean it isn't and that you kind of have to consider its cultural context before discussing it or you'll get it all wrong. But yeah, I kinda feel like Dan didn't really think about his YOI comments and you can't really edit an uninformed opinion out of a liveshow later, so , whatever. I'm actually really glad that this doesn't happen with him too often. He knows how big his platform is and that lots of his fans will believe whatever he says and I think it's good that he's cautious with controversial opinions, especially when his opinion might be uninformed.

[malday]

and then:

Okay, what is up, why are they tweeting so much? Two tweets from Phil within five hours? A picture from each of them on back to back days? Madness.

He's taking pictures for a legal document or something? That's what they look like, and he wasn't allowed to smile.

Combined with Dan's increasing mentions about going to places he hasn't been yet, i'd say they are cooking up something that involves traveling.

[freesocks]

I think its very normal to apply our own experiences/knowledge/cultural norms to things when attempting to make sense of various things in the world around us, unless we learn otherwise, which is probably one of the reasons why Dan (and Phil) avoid going too in depth in the live shows (although it would be cool if there was a way to have more deeper discussions because I am genuinely interested in their opinions). I know I have rolled my eyes in the past at Dan discussing American politics, but I can't really blame him for not having a deep understanding of our political system when a large portion of Americans don't have a basic understanding. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US we really do not learn about non-Western culture/history/standards in high school, or at least I did not. I've learned more about different cultures from having most of my coworkers be from different parts of the world than I did in the entirety of my education. I generally get the impression that Dan is someone who wants to learn, but unfortunately "show us your chins" is a lot easier to type into chat haha.

Yes, absolutely! I think Dan's YOI comments were totally spur of the moment. It was a liveshow after all and I don't think he really thought about it before he said it so that might explain why he seemed ignorant. But I'm with dizzy, I don't think it's good when he shares uninformed opinions with his millions of followers. The YOI thing also fed into a pretty heated discussion about the anime that went down at the time. I mean, it's not "problematic" to not know everything about Japanese media of course but it's a problem when Western viewers tear down a pretty progressive piece of Japanese media because they apply their own cultural standards to it. Sparkle said it a lot better, I basically agree with her but I'd like to add that just because something doesn't seem progressive to Western viewers doesn't mean it isn't and that you kind of have to consider its cultural context before discussing it or you'll get it all wrong. But yeah, I kinda feel like Dan didn't really think about his YOI comments and you can't really edit an uninformed opinion out of a liveshow later, so , whatever. I'm actually really glad that this doesn't happen with him too often. He knows how big his platform is and that lots of his fans will believe whatever he says and I think it's good that he's cautious with controversial opinions, especially when his opinion might be uninformed.

I think this is especially true of a lot of the EU countries because even though the US and Europe are both Western, what is considered liberal in the USA is usually considered conservative in a lot of Europe and these are cultures that are pretty similar as far as Western values/culture, etc. Most of my coworkers are not from the US (STEM field) and we all have different things that we do or do not understand about each-other's cultures, but I think that is why discussion is so important. Someone might have a wrong/simplistic/naive/problematic opinion, but I think people don't consider where they are coming from enough and the call-out culture really makes it harder for people to learn from each other. Dan strikes me as the type of person that, in a smaller group, would love to have deeper conversations about these things as he seems to really enjoy thinking philosophically, but I agree, it is way too difficult with a large audience that range in age, education, culture, etc.

[vincentian]

and then:

Okay, what is up, why are they tweeting so much? Two tweets from Phil within five hours? A picture from each of them on back to back days? Madness.

I'm guessing it's to focus our attention on these.. easy topics, so he has something to talk about in his ls, as Creator Summit anecdotes are already exhausted. (But I'm secretly hoping for a gaming stream instead.)