IDB

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:23 pm**

phamnotof wrote:

my dear dudes and dudettes. really?

I mean, dresses are lovely. Men in dresses are lovely. Dan is a lovely man. The idea of him wearing a lovely piece of clothing is lovely. If we boil fanart down, it's just imagining the person portrayed in an AU. Would we be this pissy about this if a fireman!Dan trend became huge? Dan's not a fireman. He's expressed far less interest in firemanhood than in breaking down gender constructs. Fanart is just a conversation, and the fandom, in this case, is 100% continuing a conversation that Dan has started.

It's a piece of fabric. It *can* just be a piece of fabric, anyway. Nobody's trying to determine Dan's identity for him, the conversation, to me, is far more about how fabric does not determine that, and cannot, unless you want it to. Dan and gender constructs has been a conversation on a bigger scale ever since he privated his Men vs. Women video, saying that "gender rolls are the worst kind of bread" - a video that was very successful, had over 6kk views, and therefore, due to the circulatory nature of YT, was still bringing him money and subscribers - and yet, he cared enough to take private it because it was spreading a message he was no longer on board with. When he was, a few months or weeks later, asked about wearing nail polish, he expressed his lack of knowledge on removing it and said he did not own any. (Hey, if someone asked Dan to put on a temporary tattoo during a ls, and he'd said he doesn't have any & asked how you get them off, would people be bothered by one perspon bringing him some during a m&g?) He called himself a marbel princess in a picture.

The fact is that Dan has yet to express any discomfort with fanart featuring him in traditionally feminine roles. He embraces his softer side as well as his sarcastic, tougher one, he's a beautiful example of a complex human comfortable with his identity.

And that's been a journey, right? I mean, he's the boy who once didn't want to collab with Tyler Oakley for the fear of being percieved as his gay friend, who flat out once said he didn't wanna wear nail polish because he "wasn't comfortable enough with his sexuality" - and seeing that growth is just the most beautiful thing in the world to me. Seeing how h not only accepts those parts of himself, but embraces them, and seeing them celebrated rather than ridiculed in return... That's quite honestly one of my favourite things about him & the phandom.

And it like, makes me tear up with hapiness every time I think about it, so this conversation took me by a surprise, not gonna lie.

And now, let me tell you about the joy it brings me & many other people. Because it sadly is rare. It's rare to see men who are secure enough in their identity and their feminism to realize and acknowledge the nonsensical constructs society has set up. And Dan's not perfect, but he's - very important to me in this sense. And the fact that he also happens to be a person who embraces his femininity alongside is masculinity and is comfortable performing them both to his influential, largely female audience - it's like a hug to my very soul. Because femininity and masculinity, at their core, are constructs, they're a made up set of qualities faultily connected to just one gender identity when in fact, they're a part of all of us, in different measures, but feminity is often rejected as less valuable due to internalized sexism by men and women alike.

And like, sure. Drawing Dan in a cute dress can just be a random, cute thing. But to me, it's more than that. It's people celebrating a man who brings up the idea of being a princess and is happy with it. It's *everything* to me. And it'd be different if Dan has expressed discomfort at any time in the past year, but he hasn't, all discomfort, as far as I can tell, comes from biases that aren't Dan's.

this is how i see it too

and yes, there's some fanart of dan wearing dresses or being feminine that is sexual/fetishizing but it's not all of it, and let's be fair, there's sexual fanart of them doing practically everything, should fanart in general stop existing then?

i feel like some of you (not you jaej, i think you bring up and interesting and valid pov, i just personally don't see it that way) are projecting your own insecurities on dan or babying him, he has yet to express any discomfort with this whole trend, so why panic beforehand? i'm pretty sure if at some point it makes him uncomfortable he would say so?

i also think it's more about the fans than it is about dan, they already like/stan dan so that's why they are projecting this things they care about on him when there's probably other people/celebs that would be better options or actually speak up about this issues, but i don't see what's wrong with that

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:27 pm**

jaej wrote:im pretty sure the princess thing was due to a failure of using my language for an ~aesthetic~ purpose
it's the obsession over him wearing dresses and the way it's shown that makes me uncomfortable as an AMAB person who presents as feminine. until he does it, i'll praise him for being a generally good dude in regards to gender roles, not for actually doing anything out of the ordinary. it's people like gackt or hyde who make it easier for me to present as i am, not a boy who implies dresses are nice. that's great, yes, but don't make it out to be something it isn't. it's the phandom reinforcing gender roles, he did something feminine now he has to be 100% feminine because only one or the other is acceptable
the one time he worse a dress was for a comedic purpose. that isn't breaking any gender roles, that's enforcing them, because a man wearing a dress is so crazy and funny, it must be a dare or a promise for charity, right? i just can't praise him for something he just doesn't do. i hope he does if he feels comfortable, but i can't praise him for something he doesn't come close to doing
are there any other AMAB genderqueer or otherwise trans feminine people here who can offer an opinion?

I doubt it was a language failure, he just used google translate and got the exact thing he tweeted, if you typed in 'price', it changes. Not saying that's not problematic, but I do think it's a different conversation. (If I used , would people understand it's me being ironic?)

And look, I get that Dan might not be who you're looking for as far as representation goes, but people who identify as binary while rejecting some of the constructs that go hand in hand with how we think of gender expression are valuable, too. Gender roles are not just an isse trans or non-binary people should care about, they affect everybody. Because a dress can be a way to express your femaleness, absolutely, but it can also be a way to express your feminity while still identifying as male, and it can also just be a way rejecting constructs that go with gendered clothing and the internalized sexism within that altogether.

That's the opossite of reinforcing gender roles, in my opinion, it's breaking them down. And the fact that I have uber- traditonally masculine punk Dan next to a Dan wearing a wedding dress on my dash proves that, he's not just one thing, he's both and more, and that's what people like me love seeing. Nobody's erasing his complexities, people are just also celebrating this one nice thing, and the focus on the dresses and flowers now is, as people have explained, due to a popular fanartist being attacked for one of her drawings.

And yeah, to me, Dan expressing the comfort that he has *is* a big deal. Might not be to you, and that's fine.

And I do agree that the instance where he wore a dress wasn't revolutionary or even stereotype-breaking, but I posted it to show that at worst, he wouldn't be shrieking with discomfort at the didea of wearing a dress as some people have implied.

SquishPhan wrote:I’m glad that Dan doesn’t seem to care much for gender roles, that is great, but that doesn’t mean that people should put the role of the person who has to break down gender roles on his shoulders. That isn’t something he asked for. And people pressuring him to do these things just rub me the wrong way. Dan will wear nail polish or a dress if/when he wants to, not because people on the internet want him to. And that is the way it should be in my opinion.
So if people want to draw him wearing dresses or however they like, than that is absolutely fine, but that is where I feel it should stay.

Who's pressuring though? The most people have done is bring him a bottle of nail polish, and that's hardly pressure, esp. after having said he doesn't own any. People constantly dress them up in m&g's according to their wishes, why should this be inherently different? The only real pressure people have put on them to do something, other than to come out, is to get that damn dog.

Fanart isn't primarily for our idols. It's also for us, fandoms are a community in itself, centering around someone, but going beyond that, too. The endgame of a cute dress pic doesn't have to be Dan wearing a dress, just as the endgame of writing wax play isn't one of them getting some mild burns. Nobody was ever yelling at Dan to wear a dress, OR ELSE.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:31 pm**

Just saw that Cornelia posted this insta of what I guess is the merch stand sign with a bunch of fan graffiti on, mostly pretty cute but I wonder how they feel about 'PHAN' in huge letters

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:34 pm**

bluebox-away wrote:Just saw that Cornelia posted this insta of what I guess is the merch stand sign with a bunch of fan graffiti on, mostly pretty cute but I wonder how they feel about 'PHAN' in huge letters

Captioned: I like our sign better now. #tatinof

Is it written Phan is real in purple on the "H" letter ?

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:35 pm**

[offtopic]is it okay if people censor the usage of qu**r, the word makes me feel so uneasy when it's used as a blanket term and essentially its general usage[/offtopic]

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:37 pm**

At the end of the day, you can express your opinion on whether you think someone would appreciate wearing a dress or not, but fans will be fans and their art will be art. I don't think art is pressuring anyone to do anything, and Dan's opinions on gender roles and such aren't reflected by it either. In that respect, I agree with phamnotof. What concerns me are people trying to police what counts as valid and invalid ways of portraying someone in something as insignificant and subjective as a piece of art. Idk. People should be more concerned about taking actual quotes out of context and changing them, but that's just imo.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:39 pm**

NarrysCanary wrote:
bluebox-away wrote:Just saw that Cornelia posted this insta of what I guess is the merch stand sign with a bunch of fan graffiti on, mostly pretty cute but I wonder how they feel about 'PHAN' in huge letters

Captioned: I like our sign better now. #tatinof
Is it written Phan is real in purple in the "H" letter ?

It might, I can't really make it out tbh, it's pretty bad handwriting and a weird faint colour

Also, unsurprisingly, people have started photoshopping the green screen Phil photo into various scenes, he's been liking and RTing some on twitter

I particularly like this one

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:41 pm**

phamnotof wrote: And look, I get that Dan might not be who you're looking for as far as representation goes, but people who identify as binary while rejecting some of the constructs that go hand in hand with how we think of gender expression are valuable, too. Gender roles are not just an isse trans or non-binary people should care about, they affect everybody. Because a dress can be a way to express your femaleness, absolutely, but it can also be a way to express your feminity while still identifying as male, and it can also just be a way rejecting constructs that go with gendered clothing and the internalized sexism within that altogether.

That's the opossite of reinforcing gender roles, in my opinion, it's breaking them down. And the fact that I have uber- traditonally masculine punk Dan next to a Dan wearing a wedding dress on my dash proves that, he's not just one thing, he's both and more, and that's what people like me love seeing. Nobody's erasing his complexities, people are just also celebrating this one nice thing, and the focus on the dresses and flowers now is, as people have explained, due to a popular fanartist being attacked for one of her drawings.

And yeah, to me, Dan expressing the comfort that he has *is* a big deal. Might not be to you, and that's fine.

but he isnt both and more, thats just what people want from him. he isn't expressing femininity in that way at all, he isn't rejecting anything and he's fine that way. he can't be celebrated for this stuff because he hasn't done it. he's a normal dude who's taken his time to get to this point of accepting gender in his own way. to then project absolute masculinity or absolute femininity onto him is just erasing this change he's actually made to avoid the social constructs he is actually uncomfortable with, and keeping the things considered gendered but that he is still likes. he's expressed his comfort, yet the art is of him out of that comfort.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:41 pm**

NarrysCanary wrote:
bluebox-away wrote:Just saw that Cornelia posted this insta of what I guess is the merch stand sign with a bunch of fan graffiti on, mostly pretty cute but I wonder how they feel about 'PHAN' in huge letters

Captioned: I like our sign better now. #tatinof
Is it written Phan is real in purple in the "H" letter ?

It does look like it says phan is real there. To be honest they probably expected this to happen, I find it very cringe, but I'm not surprised by it so I assume they won't be either.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 7:55 pm**

jaej wrote: but he isnt both and more, thats just what people want from him. he isn't expressing femininity in that way at all, he isn't rejecting anything and he's fine that way. he can't be celebrated for this stuff because he hasn't done it. he's a normal dude who's taken his time to get to this point of accepting gender in his own way. to then project absolute masculinity or absolute femininity onto him is just erasing this change he's actually made to avoid the social constructs he is actually uncomfortable with, and keeping the things considered gendered but that he is still likes. he's expressed his comfort, yet the art is of him out of that comfort.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what a normal dude is, because where I'm from, your normal dude mocks the idea of men in traditionally female clothes, would be offended by the idea of him wearing nail polish and even the thought of wearing pink makes his balls shake with the fear of being eternally detatched from his body. And it's a trend ever-rising even within the LGBT+ community, rejecting one's feminity due to a lot of complicated issues. Which is why I value Dan.

And I don't think anyone's projecting absolute anything on the real Dan, fanart is just a way to highlight a certain aspect of him. It's not trying to portray reality & never claimed to, just as punk edits aren't. I don't think he's drawn a line as to where his comfort with being portrayed a certain way in fanart ends, either, so I really don't know what you're referring to here unless it's years old and therefore rather dated.

And when I say he's both and more, I mean he is both feminine and masculine, just like everybody, and when I talk about embracing that I mean the way he unapologetically talks about being a crier, screams when he's scared, can have a soft warm presence, wearing what he wants - etc. And yes, of course those are constructs, but *so is femininity itself*, there isn't anything innately male or female other han identity and even that's not true for everyone.

(Also, you guys, I'm having a conversation with jaej trying to convince them that Dan is more awesome than they give him credit for, what a weird day I'm having.)

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 8:04 pm**

This is going to be my last post on this subject, because I feel like I said everything I wanted to about this.
I’m fine with the art, as I’m sure Dan is as well. And even if he wasn’t, it’s not like he would actually say that, because let’s be real he would get tons of shit for that. I do think he doesn’t care about it though.
It’s the people saying that Dan has to wear a dress now, because of such and so reason that I can’t get behind. Which is something that I have seen people say on Tumblr.
And yes I do see people giving him bottles of nail polish as pressuring him, that and the things like the checklist. He didn’t say no the nail polish thing, but he didn’t say yes either, let us keep that in mind as well.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 8:25 pm**

phamnotof wrote: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what a normal dude is, because where I'm from, your normal dude mocks the idea of men in traditionally female clothes, would be offended by the idea of him wearing nail polish and even the thought of wearing pink makes his balls shake with the fear of being eternally detatched from his body. And it's a trend ever-rising even within the LGBT+ community, rejecting one's feminity due to a lot of complicated issues. Which is why I value Dan.

And I don't think anyone's projecting absolute anything on the real Dan, fanart is just a way to highlight a certain aspect of him. It's not trying to portray reality & never claimed to, just as punk edits aren't. I don't think he's drawn a line as to where his comfort with being portrayed a certain way in fanart ends, either, so I really don't know what you're referring to here unless it's years old and therefore rather dated.

And when I say he's both and more, I mean he is both feminine and masculine, just like everybody, and when I talk about embracing that I mean the way he unapologetically talks about being a crier, screams when he's scared, can have a soft warm presence, wearing what he wants - etc. And yes, of course those are constructs, but *so is femininity itself*, there isn't anything innately male or female other han identity and even that's not true for everyone.

(Also, you guys, I'm having a conversation with jaej trying to convince them that Dan is more awesome than they give him credit for, what a weird day I'm having.)

i think in my entire life, i've met about 3 men under the age of 50 who've had that kind of reaction to femininity, aside from drunk guys when im walking home - and generally thats because im first read as a woman, the realise im not, get pissed at that. more an issue of misogyny tbh. and within the community, i've only come into contact with people who've realised they don't have to be feminine if they don't actually want to be, and that sexuality and presentations and interpretations of gender identity are not connected.

hes feminine and masculine in the way that everybody is, a little more accepting and open than most people. placebo are one of his favourite bands, right? younger brian molko didnt really constrict himself to expectations of masculinity, he's said he likes clothes seen as female, hell, even kanye is a perfect example of something who would be seen as stereotypically masculine in some ways while he wears the skirts and loose clothing that was so different for the scene especially. i just think he can be praised for what he actually does, not held up for what we're able to project onto him with his neutral personality.

bedhead91 wrote: I agree with all of this, though I am cis, so please correct me if I'm saying anything that's out of line.

Dan is praised a lot for not caring about gender roles, when there are actual trans and non-binary advocates out there wearing dresses who don't get this same kind of attention or praise. It reminds me of feminist female YouTubers who get called ''annoying sjw feminazis'' while Dan and Phil are praised for mentioning once that they are feminists. As much as the Phandom wants to see Dan as some kind of queer icon, the fact is that he's not publicly ''out'' at this point in his life and might never be.(Insert disclaimer here for if he's not actually straight, blah blah blah.) He seemingly has no interest in being a LGBT role model rn and we're going to have to accept that.

no, this is exactly what im trying to say! he can be commended on being, you know, a bit better than basic 'is nice', but thats it, you shouldnt go overboard with the praise. and i love the comparison it's not that he/they cant be lightly praised for showing distaste for gender roles/calling themselves feminists, its just that, in the scheme of things, they get a lot of praise for very little while people trying hard to actually make a change and be role models are ignored, or worse.

if dan wants to change his style, from anything from more loose, soft yeezy designs to a sort of 90s brian molko/gackt mixed deal to a full wardrobe of clothes seen as feminine, i'll support him fully. but right now, at most he can only just barely be praised for the first, and that itself isn't really revolutionary when it's becoming the norm style in some countries and circles and stuff.
but also, my opinion really does not matter. i'd love to go full malice mizer with him, but i dislike the idea that he should present the way he might feel comfortable with because we might find it visually appealing. who cares if we think he looks cute in a dress?

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 8:32 pm**

sunday wrote: So potentially still hope in the future for a jaej333 wedding

I ship it #Jaej333IsTheNewPhan

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 8:34 pm**

galaxies wrote:[offtopic]is it okay if people censor the usage of qu**r, the word makes me feel so uneasy when it's used as a blanket term and essentially its general usage[/offtopic]

I get that it makes people uncomfortable and I'll try to refrain from using it on this forum again, but do we really need to censor it? It's a word that has gained such mainstream usage that I feel like you would have to avoid most LGBT-related media and theory to not see it being used as a blanket term. (Sorry if other people don't like it being used as a blanket term. I just finished writing a 3.000 word paper for a class where I referenced academics who use it about twenty times per sentence, it's so normalized in academia that I sometimes forget that it still makes people uneasy in a non-academic context.)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what a normal dude is, because where I'm from, your normal dude mocks the idea of men in traditionally female clothes, would be offended by the idea of him wearing nail polish and even the thought of wearing pink makes his balls shake with the fear of being eternally detatched from his body.

I get that you were trying to make a serious point here but that last sentence killed me

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 8:35 pm**

bluebox-away wrote:Just saw that Cornelia posted this insta of what I guess is the merch stand sign with a bunch of fan graffiti on, mostly pretty cute but I wonder how they feel about 'PHAN' in huge letters

Captioned: I like our sign better now. #tatinof

I would think by now "PHAN" would hardly blip on their uncomfortable radar.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 8:57 pm**

Winston wrote:
bluebox-away wrote:Just saw that Cornelia posted this insta of what I guess is the merch stand sign with a bunch of fan graffiti on, mostly pretty cute but I wonder how they feel about 'PHAN' in huge letters

Captioned: I like our sign better now. #tatinof
I would think by now "PHAN" would hardly blip on their uncomfortable radar.

I honestly don't think they care, I mean heck, they reference Phan a lot so obviously they don't seem to be worried about a 12 year old writing "PHAN" on the back of something. It's not like they printed out Dan's nudes and taped them up there

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 9:00 pm**

Regarding the nail polish/dress discussion:
a lot of it is harmless really, a lot of art and fanfic is just creative writing where they've taken Dan and Phil's essence and created their own pieces using the two as their muse

one thing that bothers me, as was said before, is that it is fetishising and projecting these tropes onto D&P as if they typically wear dresses and painting their nails (well who knows what they like tbh) some people don't seem to grasp that Dan and Phil are real people and not their dress up dolls

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 9:00 pm**

fancy_nancy wrote:
Catallena wrote:I don't get why the phandom thinks Dan looks feminine. He doesn't really have an androgynous look to him at all imo. Maybe pre-2013 Dan, but that because he basically still a teenager and teens just look different from grown men.

btw it's not just dresses and skirts, another trend in the smut corner of the phandom is Dan in lingerie... Sad times for me, men in lingerie don't get me going at all.
It's not that he looks feminine, it's that he has expressed liking traditionally "femenine" clothes once or twice before, clothes have no gender and tbh I think he'd look cute but I agree it's bizarre how much the phanom wants to force him into doing stuff just for the sake of breaking gender roles

I'd love to believe that that is their reasoning, but I feel like more than half these girls do not even remember his like two mentions of thinking an item of women's clothing looked cool. And it's not like trends of drawing boys in dresses and skirts are limited to Dan and the phandom either, it happens in many fandoms centered around men and many of them have never expressed any interest in that at all. So there's definitely an element there of girls picking Dan for their fantasies because they think he looks and acts 'feminine' which I don't agree with. I mean all that stuff is a social construct anyway, but even if you're looking at it from a conservative perspective Dan is really pretty average?

phamnotof wrote: Dan and gender constructs has been a conversation on a bigger scale ever since he privated his Men vs. Women video, saying that "gender rolls are the worst kind of bread" - a video that was very successful, had over 6kk views, and therefore, due to the circulatory nature of YT, was still bringing him money and subscribers - and yet, he cared enough to take private it because it was spreading a message he was no longer on board with. When he was, a few months or weeks later, asked about wearing nail polish, he expressed his lack of knowledge on removing it and said he did not own any.

I... have a very different take on why that video was privated. And I already know most people will not agree with this but I want to say it anyway. I'm not saying that Dan doesn't care at all because he does obviously, but I always doubted he took that one down because he suddenly cared so much? Like yeah he became more educated about the subject no doubt about that, but he probably just got increasingly more shit about it from people and was tired of it so he privated it. Dan has a video with a literal sexual abuser still sitting on his channel, and I get that it's a popular video and his first one to really blow up so at the same time I can't fault him for it too much, but if I were Dan that'd be the first one to go if I suddenly started caring so much. The feedback that he couldn't ignore anymore was probably far more of a factor in that video being privated than his change of heart.

I also have a different take on his answers about nail polish. I do really like his change of answers to the suggestion of wearing nail polish because it does show how much he has grown as a person, and Iwould fully support Dan if he wanted to wear it. But while the recent answer was nicer about it, both where blatant statements saying 'I do not want to do that' just packaged in a non direct way. Dan avoids directly saying 'No' to his viewers, because it often causes a shitstorm.

SquishPhan wrote:This is going to be my last post on this subject, because I feel like I said everything I wanted to about this.
I’m fine with the art, as I’m sure Dan is as well. And even if he wasn’t, it’s not like he would actually say that, because let’s be real he would get tons of shit for that. I do think he doesn’t care about it though.
It’s the people saying that Dan has to wear a dress now, because of such and so reason that I can’t get behind. Which is something that I have seen people say on Tumblr.
And yes I do see people giving him bottles of nail polish as pressuring him, that and the things like the checklist. He didn’t say no the nail polish thing, but he didn’t say yes either, let us keep that in mind as well.

All of this too.

jaej Are you familiar with NU'EST's Ren? He has switched back and forth between 'feminine' and 'masculine' looks since debut in 2012 but is mostly known for the former and also just not giving a shit about what people think. He recently modeled for a clothing shop in China where he wore skirts and a dress. When he posted the pictures on his Insta (@bornthisren), he captioned it with:

"패션이 사람을 만든다"
Am I a boy or a girl?
I am a man.
Fashion makes a person and its impression.

I adore him so much.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 9:02 pm**

Moderating

galaxies wrote:[offtopic]is it okay if people censor the usage of qu**r, the word makes me feel so uneasy when it's used as a blanket term and essentially its general usage[/offtopic]

We've decided not to censor the word queer in any way, and to allow it to be used by posters except as a derogatory term directed at people or groups of people.

You're more than welcome to censor it in your own posts, but please don't change it within the quote tags if you quote another user's post.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 9:10 pm**

To me it looks like it says "Phan is for" and then "peasants"
Then "also for peasants" pointing to the big PHAN

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 9:19 pm**

bluebox-away wrote:Just saw that Cornelia posted this insta of what I guess is the merch stand sign with a bunch of fan graffiti on, mostly pretty cute but I wonder how they feel about 'PHAN' in huge letters

Captioned: I like our sign better now. #tatinof

ehh, they've used the term before as shorthand for "dan and phil." It is the "is real" that follows it that is annoying.

bedhead91 wrote:
galaxies wrote:[offtopic]is it okay if people censor the usage of qu**r, the word makes me feel so uneasy when it's used as a blanket term and essentially its general usage[/offtopic]
I get that it makes people uncomfortable and I'll try to refrain from using it on this forum again, but do we really need to censor it? It's a word that has gained such mainstream usage that I feel like you would have to avoid most LGBT-related media and theory to not see it being used as a blanket term. (Sorry if other people don't like it being used as a blanket term. I just finished writing a 3.000 word paper for a class where I referenced academics who use it about twenty times per sentence, it's so normalized in academia that I sometimes forget that it still makes people uneasy in a non-academic context.)

[offtopic]

[/offtopic]

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 9:21 pm**

spaceguitar wrote:To me it looks like it says "Phan is for" and then "peasants"
Then "also for peasants" pointing to the big PHAN

I think people were just following the arrows, like paying in cash like a "peasant" or with a credit card like a "peasant" (it does not make sense at all, I know)

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 9:24 pm**

Catallena wrote:
jaej Are you familiar with NU'EST's Ren? He has switched back and forth between 'feminine' and 'masculine' looks since debut in 2012 but is mostly known for the former and also just not giving a shit about what people think. He recently modeled for a clothing shop in China where he wore skirts and a dress. When he posted the pictures on his Insta (@bornthisren), he captioned it with:

"패션이 사람을 만든다"
Am I a boy or a girl?
I am a man.
Fashion makes a person and its impression.

I adore him so much.

i love ren! he always looks amazing and he seems like such a sweetheart. i havent been keeping up to date with nu'est very much lately neither has pledis so i just checked his instagram for those photos and he is so lovely i remember being really shocked when he debuted and being really glad after a year or so in when i realised its what he really enjoys, not just a concept forced on him

also, i agree with you on why he private the gender video. partially, anyway. i definitely think he's grown up and is at least embarrassed by that (even if i'll go along with him saying it was a joke/sarcastic video that was very poorly executed) but that i still expect it would have stayed up if he didnt get or expect more backlash. i know he certainly wouldnt make that now, for his own views as well as the backlash, but i still dont think hes massively against keeping it up. it's unlisted anyway, right? not deleted or anything.

he needs the £££ to afford the nail polish somehow

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 9:54 pm**

Jeweul wrote:It's not like they printed out Dan's nudes and taped them up there

Don't give them any ideas!!!!

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2016 9:57 pm**

fancy_nancy wrote:
Jeweul wrote:It's not like they printed out Dan's nudes and taped them up there
Don't give them any ideas!!!!

*Flashbacks to Nakedbooth*

IDB

Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Name

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam

Re: Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Nam