IDB

Normally I'd say it's better to try to state your (at least somewhat informed) opinion so that it's out there and up for discussion, and if it's wrong/problematic people can offer you another perspective and more informed insight into the topic, but then I forget what a huge impressionable audience D&P have, and what they say is on the internet forever. And tbh I guess they don't owe us their opinions. I'm just reeeeeeally curious

Birdie wrote:There are loads of black and LGBTQ Youtubers and Bloggers out there who do share their opinions on “Moonlight”. I feel like instead of waiting for Phil, a white man, to speak about the importance of the film, we should rather make sure the voices of the people this film actually concerns are heard more. Of course it would be cool if Phil decided to use his fame and reach to promote social justice but we can’t demand it of him. Or anyone for that matter. I feel like people tend to forget that the voices of white celebs aren’t the most important voices when it comes to issues like this.

In a general sense, I completely agree with this. Overall the voices boosted in this conversation should be the black and LQBTQ ones; but this is a forum about Dan and Phil, where we discuss reactions to things Dan and Phil say and do. Shifting the conversation to people besides Dan and Phil wouldn't make sense for this specific discussion so it's kind of a non-issue.

No one is demanding Phil promote social justice. I don't think anyone was sitting around waiting on Phil to talk about Moonlight; it's just that he did, and now we're discussing it. I think everyone posting that they understand people being upset are emphatically stating that they aren't demanding anything of Phil, just expressing disappointment. You can be disappointed that someone doesn't feel or act a certain way without the expectation that they change to fit your desires.

Delurking for a moment because I'm actually pretty disappointed with the recent discussion as I expect a bit more from people here. But no one has even bothered to check what Phil actually said about the film. Someone said that Phil called the film boring and that turned into "Phil didn't like the film", "he doesn't care about the issues surrounding it", "he doesn't care about those types of films" all without bothering to check the facts. But what he actually said was (possibly slightly off the bit is around 29:30 in the liveshow)

"I did enjoy it. I got slightly bored, which is unlike me. So it is one of those that you have to think about and it's quite harrowing. But it was objectively a good film."

Describing the film as harrowing show quite a strong opinion on the issues the character dealt with. Saying it was unlike himself to get bored during the film as you had to think about it, to me, says more that his mind might not have been in the right place at the time than he didn't like the film or others like it. But that's just my interpretation.

Don't forget that Phil is a member of the LGBT+ community and has talked about being bullied before at school. I have no doubt in my mind he's had struggles along with the privilege.

Apologies for the rubbish post, which explains why I never post but I hope you can take something from it as a different perspective. Even if the conversation is probably over.

Back to lurking forever and regretting posting anything

alittledizzy wrote:In a general sense, I completely agree with this. Overall the voices boosted in this conversation should be the black and LQBTQ ones; but this is a forum about Dan and Phil, where we discuss reactions to things Dan and Phil say and do. Shifting the conversation to people besides Dan and Phil wouldn't make sense for this specific discussion so it's kind of a non-issue.

It isn't in my opinion. I was talking about people being disappointed in Phil's apoliticalness in general and about his stance on "Moonlight" in particular. I didn't mean we should talk about other Youtubers here, which wouldn't make sense since this thread is about Dan and Phil, but rather about how people wanting good commentary on "Moonlight" might be better off looking for it in other places.

I started rambling again, sorry:

rainy_days wrote:Don't forget that Phil is a member of the LGBT+ community and has talked about being bullied before at school. I have no doubt in my mind he's had struggles along with the privilege.

Even though a lot of people highly suspect this, we don't know so I feel really uncomfortable with just labeling Phil like this but apart from that, good post and I'm sorry for basically saying the same thing but you posted whilst I was still typing.

Oh, another fascinating discussion! *points to thread title* definitly a lie!

Anyway I really liked the tumblr post Kuen linked, I think this part sums it up pretty well:

i don’t think phil hesitates in stating his opinions because he’s afraid of criticism, i think he does it because it’s probably hard for him to see past his privilege and understand the life or death significance that these issues have on people who aren’t white and rich and whatnot. i also think he maybe hasn’t done a lot of work to educate himself on social issues. he’s probably one of those people that says they don’t care too much about politics, without realizing that in order to be one of those people you are living with the privilege of not being directly or personally impacted by those politics. and, probs most importantly, i think he cares a lot about his role as a 100% positive, uplifting, calming, fluffy public figure who gives his audience nothing but joy.

I also agree that this isn't about demanding something from Phil, it's about trying to explain different perspectives and educating each other because we all do have different perspectives and levels of privilege that make us blind towards certain aspects. And discussing these social issues in relation to Dan and Phil is what I find one of the most interesting parts of this forum tbh.

Let me also weight in as an european who is oddly fascinated by US politics but also kind of incredulous how US centric most people argue online. I find myself often better informed about the latest American news than about what is going on in my own country, thanks to casual consumption of tumblr and youtube alone. Which is sometimes hard to explain to friends haha.

This trailer is amazing, so funny to remember each video the clips are from. I'm pretty curious to watch more of her videos, her subs are certainly blowing up.

rainy_days wrote: But what he actually said was (possibly slightly off the bit is around 29:30 in the liveshow)

"I did enjoy it. I got slightly bored, which is unlike me. So it is one of those that you have to think about and it's quite harrowing. But it was objectively a good film."

rainy_days, thanks for posting the text of what Phil said! It does seem as though a bit of nuance gets lost when we discuss "bored/boring" without the context that includes "harrowing" as well as "good film".

Birdie wrote:

rainy_days wrote:Don't forget that Phil is a member of the LGBT+ community and has talked about being bullied before at school. I have no doubt in my mind he's had struggles along with the privilege.

Even though a lot of people highly suspect this, we don't know so I feel really uncomfortable with just labeling Phil like this but apart from that, good post and I'm sorry for basically saying the same thing but you posted whilst I was still typing.

But he has labeled himself bi and nothing since, so I think it's a fair assumption (insofar as it's fair to make any assumptions about anyone, which is perhaps another topic).

Regardless, I think this whole discussion, aside from Phil, has been great. One of the reasons I enjoy this forum is that it's not US-centric. I make an effort to get some of my news from, e.g., the BBC, but even so it can be remarkably hard sometimes to see beyond America's borders. So to hear from, and engage with, actual people from so many different places is great.

i watched that video and dang it's a really well edited video. i would totally watch a horror movie with dan and phil in it.

flarequake wrote:This trailer is amazing, so funny to remember each video the clips are from. I'm pretty curious to watch more of her videos, her subs are certainly blowing up.

Why does Phil always get cast as evil? Or were they both being affected by this spirit?

Love that trailer, it's hilarious. This look like the most trashy horror movie with the worst acting ever. Also great that Phil tweeted it

mio wrote:

flarequake wrote:This trailer is amazing, so funny to remember each video the clips are from. I'm pretty curious to watch more of her videos, her subs are certainly blowing up.

Why does Phil always get cast as evil? Or were they both being affected by this spirit?

Love that trailer, it's hilarious. This look like the most trashy horror movie with the worst acting ever. Also great that Phil tweeted it

I'd say this movie is about two flatmates that are both going insane due to a gas leak a demon possessing their apartment. Both think the other one is trying to kill them, which eventually leads to a dramatic fight to the death including coffee mugs, plushies and cereal.
But I'm still trying to figure out the plot.

My theory is that they both hallucinates, due to the gas leak. Dan keeps hearing voices and Phil keeps seeing dead bodies. But the plot twist is, only one of them is real and I choose Phil to be the real one. The part where Tom shows Dan flopisnotonfire behind the furniture is actually a scene told by *imaginary* Dan to Phil. The story ends with Phil moving out into a new house with no gas leak, a koi pond and a shibe named Dan.


I agree with annetamiau's post about US centic-ness of the internet. Not eloquent enough to add anything to it though

swofro wrote:

mio wrote:

flarequake wrote:This trailer is amazing, so funny to remember each video the clips are from. I'm pretty curious to watch more of her videos, her subs are certainly blowing up.

Why does Phil always get cast as evil? Or were they both being affected by this spirit?

Love that trailer, it's hilarious. This look like the most trashy horror movie with the worst acting ever. Also great that Phil tweeted it

I'd say this movie is about two flatmates that are both going insane due to a gas leak a demon possessing their apartment. Both think the other one is trying to kill them, which eventually leads to a dramatic fight to the death including coffee mugs, plushies and cereal.
But I'm still trying to figure out the plot.

My theory is that they both hallucinates, due to the gas leak. Dan keeps hearing voices and Phil keeps seeing dead bodies. But the plot twist is, only one of them is real and I choose Phil to be the real one. The part where Tom shows Dan flopisnotonfire behind the furniture is actually a scene told by *imaginary* Dan to Phil. The story ends with Phil moving out into a new house with no gas leak, a koi pond and a shibe named Dan.


I agree with annetamiau's post about US centic-ness of the internet. Not eloquent enough to add anything to it though

Ooh, I like both these ideas. The beauty of it is we can each choose, especially the ending.

swofro wrote:

mio wrote:

flarequake wrote:This trailer is amazing, so funny to remember each video the clips are from. I'm pretty curious to watch more of her videos, her subs are certainly blowing up.

Why does Phil always get cast as evil? Or were they both being affected by this spirit?

Love that trailer, it's hilarious. This look like the most trashy horror movie with the worst acting ever. Also great that Phil tweeted it

I'd say this movie is about two flatmates that are both going insane due to a gas leak a demon possessing their apartment. Both think the other one is trying to kill them, which eventually leads to a dramatic fight to the death including coffee mugs, plushies and cereal.
But I'm still trying to figure out the plot.

My theory is that they both hallucinates, due to the gas leak. Dan keeps hearing voices and Phil keeps seeing dead bodies. But the plot twist is, only one of them is real and I choose Phil to be the real one. The part where Tom shows Dan flopisnotonfire behind the furniture is actually a scene told by *imaginary* Dan to Phil. The story ends with Phil moving out into a new house with no gas leak, a koi pond and a shibe named Dan.

The gas leak could be the big curveball at the end. There never were any demons at all, Phil is making everything up from inhaling all that gas.

LeftHandedism wrote: But he has labeled himself bi and nothing since, so I think it's a fair assumption (insofar as it's fair to make any assumptions about anyone, which is perhaps another topic).

I know, I know, but that's so long ago and he hasn't said anything on the topic in forever, so I think the safest bet is to not label him as anything. Not because what he said back then isn't valid but because he might think differently about it now so not assuming anything about his sexuality is the safest way to go as of now. But everyone has different opinions on this!

Birdie wrote:

swofro wrote:

mio wrote:

flarequake wrote:This trailer is amazing, so funny to remember each video the clips are from. I'm pretty curious to watch more of her videos, her subs are certainly blowing up.

Why does Phil always get cast as evil? Or were they both being affected by this spirit?

Love that trailer, it's hilarious. This look like the most trashy horror movie with the worst acting ever. Also great that Phil tweeted it

I'd say this movie is about two flatmates that are both going insane due to a gas leak a demon possessing their apartment. Both think the other one is trying to kill them, which eventually leads to a dramatic fight to the death including coffee mugs, plushies and cereal.
But I'm still trying to figure out the plot.

My theory is that they both hallucinates, due to the gas leak. Dan keeps hearing voices and Phil keeps seeing dead bodies. But the plot twist is, only one of them is real and I choose Phil to be the real one. The part where Tom shows Dan flopisnotonfire behind the furniture is actually a scene told by *imaginary* Dan to Phil. The story ends with Phil moving out into a new house with no gas leak, a koi pond and a shibe named Dan.

The gas leak could be the big curveball at the end. There never were any demons at all, Phil is making everything up from inhaling all that gas.

The gas leak is a funny coincidence to add to the story that liveshow/twitter followers will know, but the trailer editor probably doesn't.

Birdie wrote:

LeftHandedism wrote: But he has labeled himself bi and nothing since, so I think it's a fair assumption (insofar as it's fair to make any assumptions about anyone, which is perhaps another topic).

I know, I know, but that's so long ago and he hasn't said anything on the topic in forever, so I think the safest bet is to not label him as anything. Not because what he said back then isn't valid but because he might think differently about it now so not assuming anything about his sexuality is the safest way to go as of now. But everyone has different opinions on this!

I'd go with this too, though I suppose since he did say it, people can go either way.

Good Dan tweet. Of all the nominated films, none of which I've yet seen, it's the one that sounds most interesting, though I want to see Hidden Figures and The Arrival too (The fun sound of La La Land has been tainted by the notion of a white man saving jazz, I mean wtf )

[offtopic]Random thing, but I used Phil's name: http://herosmellslike.com/ He got "whipping cream and freedom".[/offtopic]

Yay now we can be disappointed Phil didn't retweet this too. Even though he's probs rooting for Arrival.

[quote=Flarequake]

[offtopic]Random thing, but I used Phil's name: http://herosmellslike.com/ He got "whipping cream and freedom".[/offtopic][/quote]
[offtopic]I typed in Dan's and good "music and woodsmoke"[/offtopic]

fancybum wrote:Yay now we can be disappointed Phil didn't retweet this too. Even though he's probs rooting for Arrival.

I'm pretty sure he'll remain silent (as usual) even if the movie does win some if not all the oscars it's nominated for. At this point, it'll just look like he is pleasing people if he turns around and says something good about it.

I had fun reading what you all had to say about this topic! I'm slightly disappointed too, but I hope that Phil would have read some of the posts on tumblr and twitter about his attitude and decides to voice his opinion about important matters or at least try to educate himself a bit more. I get it that as a "celeb" it can be daunting as every single word will be analyzed and more often than not judged but he should give it a try as it can be very positive for all his audience.

flarequake wrote: [offtopic]Random thing, but I used Phil's name: http://herosmellslike.com/ He got "whipping cream and freedom".[/offtopic]

SexyTrashCan wrote: [offtopic]I typed in Dan's and good "music and woodsmoke"[/offtopic]

[offtopic]If you type "Philip Michael Lester" you get "bear pelt and nebulae"
"Phil" is "fabric softener and luck"
"Daniel James Howell" is "espresso and passion"
"Dan" is "latex and luxury"

[/offtopic]

starlight-still wrote:

flarequake wrote: [offtopic]Random thing, but I used Phil's name: http://herosmellslike.com/ He got "whipping cream and freedom".[/offtopic]

SexyTrashCan wrote: [offtopic]I typed in Dan's and good "music and woodsmoke"[/offtopic]

[offtopic]If you type "Philip Michael Lester" you get "bear pelt and nebulae"
"Phil" is "fabric softener and luck"
"Daniel James Howell" is "espresso and passion"
"Dan" is "latex and luxury"

[/offtopic]

[offtopic]Espresso and passion is amazing
But seriously though what do things like music or luck even smell like?[/offtopic]

late to reply as always

finding a movie "boring" is not really the same as finding the issue it talks about boring. Moonlight isn't a documentary, even if it touches upon very real points of view that are not represented a lot. I've seen some of the "socially conscious", gritty movies and they are all under a certain aesthetic umbrella, which is not everyone's cup of tea nor do they have the attention span to focus throughout the entirety of it.

Cinema has different meanings for different people. Some want entertainment, a way to feel relaxed or happy for two hours. Others are into artsy arthouse movies and want creativity and innovation. Quite a few use movies as a way to push forth important issues through indie films, which start off in small festivals and gain traction through word of mouth. What someone craves from the entertainment they consume is their right and you can't criticise them for it.

Dismissing Phil's opinion of the movie is not doing justice to Phil Lester the person, because nobody is giving him the benefit of the doubt as to how he really feels about the topic, not the movie. To base Phil's entire belief system into one movie review is frankly terrifying. I am sure you all have movies that you dread to admit you dislike. Even if it's a part of cinema history. Even if it's critically acclaimed. Even if it's a cult favourite.

Phil can't change his background. But there's a lot we also don't know about Phil Lester. His tendency to focus on positivity and happy things is often framed in a way as though he is a vacuous bimbo that can't scrape the surface of anything and only wants glossy things given to him on a platter. Does anyone consider why Phil might prefer to retain a positive outlook? Does anyone wonder that maybe he's actually gone through shitty parts and instead of letting it consume him, he struggles to find a silver lining? how do we know if it's "easy" for Phil to be positive?

Even if Phil finds a movie boring, I am sure of one thing: that in his life he tries to be kind to the people around him. Even if they happened to be the demographic the movie discussed, ie. non-straight person of colour. He has repeatedly shown he at least tries to be classy to his Youtube coworkers and his reputation as a really nice person seems to hold true by anyone who talks about him. I do not doubt for a minute that Phil Lester would be extraordinarily kind and accepting to any societally ostracised group.

Looking up to your idols to get affirmation of your own beliefs is understandable but it's also - in the grand scale of things - pointless. Instead, spend time trying to support your beliefs and practice them, in any way you feel comfortable. I feel extremely uncomfortable with marches and protests. My lack of presence at the Woman's March does not mean I support sexism, racism or Trump. Activism is about acting, and if Phil acts in his private life, if he acts as an open minded, tolerant kind person, then I won't dismiss him as a "privileged white man" because he found a movie boring.

So... no new video this week I guess?

I really don't understand why people idolise these two so much. They're lazy and they're talentless. Much like the other 'professional Youtubers'.

Dan last uploaded two weeks ago. And it was him telling a story we've already heard before. Wow. Much work. So hard.

Pure laziness. And they're making a pretty sum on the back of adsense and flogging merch. They have their pathetic fans (you reading) so conditioned that you serenade them with praise and adoration for uploading once in a blue moon i.e. doing the job they're being paid for.

Again, they're among the laziest Youtubers. Most Youtubers upload weekly -- they can almost justify their extremely easy 'jobs' and lifestyle. But these two don't seem to do anything for weeks on age.

What is the appeal? They look cute? Dan pays libservice to the Tumblr social justice bullshit? Their phony, manufactured 'sexually abiguous' image (oooh, are they in a relationship? let's keep watching to find out!!).

I really hope there's a significant drop off in their average views over the next year! I want to see a dent in their income. Then they'll have to find a proper job (if Dan can possibly cope?).

And shame on you slavering idiots for fawning over these wasters.

SexyTrashCan wrote:

This is a really cool trailer.

rainy_days wrote:Delurking for a moment because I'm actually pretty disappointed with the recent discussion as I expect a bit more from people here. But no one has even bothered to check what Phil actually said about the film. Someone said that Phil called the film boring and that turned into "Phil didn't like the film", "he doesn't care about the issues surrounding it", "he doesn't care about those types of films" all without bothering to check the facts. But what he actually said was (possibly slightly off the bit is around 29:30 in the liveshow)

"I did enjoy it. I got slightly bored, which is unlike me. So it is one of those that you have to think about and it's quite harrowing. But it was objectively a good film."

Describing the film as harrowing show quite a strong opinion on the issues the character dealt with. Saying it was unlike himself to get bored during the film as you had to think about it, to me, says more that his mind might not have been in the right place at the time than he didn't like the film or others like it. But that's just my interpretation.

Back to lurking forever and regretting posting anything

I totally agree with you. People have taken Phil's comment out of context.
Please don't regret having posted this. I think you really added something to this discussion so please feel free to lurk a bit less and post a bit more.

Also I totally your whole post melon lord.

Sorry, but I'm neither on tumblr nor on twitter…are people actually disappointed in Phil over this? Or is this just a discussion going on on here?
Is there actually backlash although all he said was that it was a good movie he enjoyed but got slightly bored?

If yes…don't know about Phil but if I were him I wouldn't state any opinion on anything ever again.

I'd like to give a running commentary on our honorary troll of February, another special snowflake.