IDB

zvezdochka wrote: I wouldn't call it queerbaiting as it is, but "Ha-ha, we've been having sexy sex time!" is a punchline here.

I fully agree with you on the rest of the post though . D&P live in one of the most liberal countries, and yet, they choose not to clear up any rumours about their relationship. They have their right not to do so, but I, as a straight ally from Russia (a place where you can get brutally murdered for being gay, unless you're loaded and don't go outside where the plebs are), can't help but be puzzled by it.

Even putting that frustration aside, I still need a reason for their ambiguity. I'm not saying that if you're queer you should come out. I'm saying, if you capitalize on your public image and a big part of that image is your relationship with your friend, you should be transparent about it. But that's my personal naive viewpoint and, I guess, I will never grow up

fancybum wrote:Like I think D&P are already normalising and representing great things, but somehow it's not enough (or even offensive to some..) to think that unless they slap a label on their foreheads.

I’m not clamoring for them both to come out (because I don't think they're crammed in some kind of shame closet to begin with), I’m watching with a hawk eye because of what I think they’re doing, and I like it and am fascinated by it (if it’s even correct). I just need to say: I look at them and see that they’re obviously together. From that observation follows the deduction that neither of them are straight (also the fact they’ve both said it but whatever whatever, time erases the meaning of specific words is something I’ve learned). It’s an observation. It’s fine. That some people react to that with demands to respect them is another pebble on the mountain of things that wears me down as a human being (that doesn't really pop up around here, but I'm having a rant). And that some people can dismiss the validity of why others think they're together with an eyeroll (or whatever Shane's video is. even after a good sleep: still bothered by it). But I can’t control what other people think, and what I can’t control shouldn’t bother me. But what other people think affects the lives of others, it affects my life, so how can I not care.

fancybum wrote:

zvezdochka wrote: I wouldn't call it queerbaiting as it is, but "Ha-ha, we've been having sexy sex time!" is a punchline here.

I fully agree with you on the rest of the post though . D&P live in one of the most liberal countries, and yet, they choose not to clear up any rumours about their relationship. They have their right not to do so, but I, as a straight ally from Russia (a place where you can get brutally murdered for being gay, unless you're loaded and don't go outside where the plebs are), can't help but be puzzled by it.

Even putting that frustration aside, I still need a reason for their ambiguity. I'm not saying that if you're queer you should come out. I'm saying, if you capitalize on your public image and a big part of that image is your relationship with your friend, you should be transparent about it. But that's my personal naive viewpoint and, I guess, I will never grow up

One recent tweet as evidence of them intentionally exploiting the ambiguousness of their relationship for profit? If they did out their relationship, would that tweet be fine, or would it still not be okay? Are they only allowed to make sexual jokes potentially involving the other only as long as we actually know they're boning?

You need a reason for the ambiguity. Of their relationship or their sexualities? Because the two are linked, talking about one (in a label-y way) naturally brings to mind the question of the other. They want to keep their relationship for themselves, but they are a duo (presented/marketed as a friendship (& roommates TRUE)) so the relationship they share with the audience through their work is their friendship. The ambiguity arises (if one thinks they're together blahedy blah) because what they portray is not the whole story (obviously. even full-time vloggers aren't sharing their whole story). They don't owe anyone anymore than what they choose to put out there. So where does the frustration come from? What do you think you're owed?

I woke up on the crazy side of the bed today, this isn't all directed at you but it's been typed and on my mind so whatever:

I struggle with the idea of 'coming out' because I just have a lot of general resentment about how the world is vs how it should be (which is just an exercise in madness because the world will never be how it "should be" in my lifetime/generation, or the next, or the next, etc).

Straight people just get to be. And I lean toward the idea that Dan/Phil also just want to be. They're making their man lust mentions, they gave up the heteronormativity, they're living their lives. AND I STRUGGLE WITH THE IDEA OF ANYBODY who isn’t straight being expected as a matter of course to one day just not 'be'. It’s partially due to audience-size obviously, but Chris is bisexual/openly into dudes and it’s fine. He’s just being. If D&P had continued how they started in 2009 being casually open with not being straight (labels and all), I wonder where we would all be now. And I’m annoyed that it’s even a thing. I’m annoyed that it’s not even just the straight people who can hear the things Dan (AND Phil more and more) says/has said and say it’s disrespectful to “””””ASSUME””””” anything about their sexualities as if not perceiving somebody as straight is a terrible thing. That a sexuality outside the 'norm' could be shameful and we all need to shhhh unless they want to put it out there themselves (because what they are putting out there just isn't enough - who even decides what's 'enough'?)

And what I’m saying is why do only straight people get to not put anything out there and just exist the way they like? I mean, I know why. But I resent it. I see both sides: coming out can be a great thing, a relief, being open with who you are etc. in your personal life with people who matter to you. Sure. But publicly there’s this shift, a marker separating who you were and who you are now: as an OUT person. Are people closeted, or are people just private. Why is an “uncomfirmed” sexuality (outside of 'confirmed' (coughordefaultedbcitsthenormcough) straight) assumed HIDDEN rather than… just existing independent of our business. I guess to one day get to the point where everybody can just be. But in terms of public figures, the idea that they are either out or hiding (with the subtext of shame hanging over everything) bothers me so much. I don't know if I'm allowed to be bothered by it though while still yearning for lgbt+ representation everywhere (and lgbt+ representation apparently not existing at all without having it explicitly said over and over, labels required, for the fucking idiots out there). Like I think D&P are already normalising and representing great things, but somehow it's not enough (or even offensive to some..) to think that unless they slap a label on their foreheads.

I’m not clamoring for them both to come out (because I don't think they're crammed in some kind of shame closet to begin with), I’m watching with a hawk eye because of what I think they’re doing, and I like it and am fascinated by it (if it’s even correct). I just need to say: I look at them and see that they’re obviously together. From that observation follows the deduction that neither of them are straight (also the fact they’ve both said it but whatever whatever, time erases the meaning of specific words is something I’ve learned). It’s an observation. It’s fine. That some people react to that with demands to respect them is another pebble on the mountain of things that wears me down as a human being (that doesn't really pop up around here, but I'm having a rant). And that some people can dismiss the validity of why others think they're together with an eyeroll (or whatever Shane's video is. even after a good sleep: still bothered by it). But I can’t control what other people think, and what I can’t control shouldn’t bother me. But what other people think affects the lives of others, it affects my life, so how can I not care.

Blah blah blah this was a waste of time sorry. Did I even have a point. I understand the importance of 'coming out' obviously, on a grand scale. Representation, normalization, ation ation ation. But on the smaller scale, of the real people expected to do it (in a public fashion, more specifically), it’s a tiring idea. They’re already who they are to the people in their real personal lives who matter. To feel like you have to wake up one day and BE THIS NOW forever and people want it from you (and the nagging why of it, just to confirm a 'ship' to better enjoy their own fantasies of your private life? to freely laugh over a dumb joke tweet without some niggling frustration? why?), the thought of it just tires me out. Especially when they're already being pretty clear and open in certain ways (at least about what doesn't get too close to their own privacy).

And the larger question with D&P, if they did at some point slap some labels on their foreheads, would have to be answered in the next breath. Right? 'Coming out' would only make the real elephant in the room even larger, and that's the elephant they actually want to ignore. It's simpler to leave all the elephants alone and just keep doing what they're doing. Orrrrr they're evil queerbaiters who would have to lack all humanity and moral decency. Super plausible. Excuse me while I retch.

tl;dr - yikes word vomit, run

fancybum wrote:One recent tweet as evidence of them intentionally exploiting the ambiguousness of their relationship for profit?

fancybum wrote:You need a reason for the ambiguity. Of their relationship or their sexualities?

houseplant wrote:hello, let me be THAT PERSON who suddenly appears out of nowhere to say 'hey i'm new, i'm so glad...' because yeah, hey, i'm new and i'm so glad i somehow stumbled here after googling dan and phil lube? or something idek the lack of sleep from going back through the threads like a crazed demon is getting to me

i've somehow managed to fall in love with dan and phil and phan in just two short months after vaguely knowing about them for years and going, like, nope, youtubers would just ruin my life and free time but look at me now: it's 1am and i just made an account here after saying i'd go to sleep four hours ago

and all i really wanted to say is that this has so far been an eye-opening, informative, thoughtful, hilarious and sometimes wtf experience and has helped solidify my opinion on deppy, so, like, thanks for being awesome (and being around my age haha)

so i'm gonna go and sleep so i can wake up, refreshed enough, to read the rules and go on with my catch-up...sorry for typing this way, by the way, i'm lazy and pretentious and very random laterssss

houseplant wrote:hello, let me be THAT PERSON who suddenly appears out of nowhere to say 'hey i'm new, i'm so glad...' because yeah, hey, i'm new and i'm so glad i somehow stumbled here after googling dan and phil lube? or something idek the lack of sleep from going back through the threads like a crazed demon is getting to me

i've somehow managed to fall in love with dan and phil and phan in just two short months after vaguely knowing about them for years and going, like, nope, youtubers would just ruin my life and free time but look at me now: it's 1am and i just made an account here after saying i'd go to sleep four hours ago

and all i really wanted to say is that this has so far been an eye-opening, informative, thoughtful, hilarious and sometimes wtf experience and has helped solidify my opinion on deppy, so, like, thanks for being awesome (and being around my age haha)

so i'm gonna go and sleep so i can wake up, refreshed enough, to read the rules and go on with my catch-up...sorry for typing this way, by the way, i'm lazy and pretentious and very random laterssss

zvezdochka wrote:

fancybum wrote:One recent tweet as evidence of them intentionally exploiting the ambiguousness of their relationship for profit?

Okay, how about writing and acting out fan fiction? That's literally a part of a show they were selling tickets for. Selling, sales, commercialism, moneyyys.

zvezdochka wrote:Of their relationship. They both are openly queer to me, and I can live without PSA with rainbow coloured fireworks. But building a joint brand and cultivating a following has consequences. D&P are influencers, and the message they're putting out right now is "If you are in a gay relationship with your friend, hide it. If everyone thinks you are, but you aren't, don't tell the truth". Hush-hush. And while I understand why they want to hide their status if they are involved, I don't see why not come clean if they aren't. So either they are in a relationship and exploiting it (which is fine by me, they are free to do whatever they want with their feelings), either they are not in a relationship and exploiting the ambiguity (which I'm torn about, because it's misleading, but also evil D&P is my kink).

houseplant wrote:hello, let me be THAT PERSON who suddenly appears out of nowhere to say 'hey i'm new, i'm so glad...' because yeah, hey, i'm new and i'm so glad i somehow stumbled here after googling dan and phil lube? or something idek the lack of sleep from going back through the threads like a crazed demon is getting to me

i've somehow managed to fall in love with dan and phil and phan in just two short months after vaguely knowing about them for years and going, like, nope, youtubers would just ruin my life and free time but look at me now: it's 1am and i just made an account here after saying i'd go to sleep four hours ago

and all i really wanted to say is that this has so far been an eye-opening, informative, thoughtful, hilarious and sometimes wtf experience and has helped solidify my opinion on deppy, so, like, thanks for being awesome (and being around my age haha)

so i'm gonna go and sleep so i can wake up, refreshed enough, to read the rules and go on with my catch-up...sorry for typing this way, by the way, i'm lazy and pretentious and very random laterssss

zvezdochka wrote:[...]and the message they're putting out right now is "If you are in a gay relationship with your friend, hide it. If everyone thinks you are, but you aren't, don't tell the truth".

Birdie wrote:Acting out shippy fanfiction is something loads of Youtubers do and everyone knows it means nothing, it's just funny. It's literally just harmless jokes, everyone on Youtube makes them.

Birdie wrote:For whatever reason Dan and Phil aren't comfortable with disclosing their sexualities and relationship status. And that's okay. I don't want representation from a real life person if talking about their sexuality online is making them uncomfortable. That's just going too far in my opinion.

lurker wrote:the sentiment that a closeted person hiding their sexuality or relationship is "not telling the truth" sits even worse with me as it implies that they have a moral obligation to "come clean" with it, which they don't, period.