IDB

kuensukki wrote:
I don't disagree that the "phan come out already" and vday screenshots are innapropiate! Those totally are. The silly challenges on the other hand seem harmless to me. If someone wants to joke about dan proposing to phil or vice versa and make it into a challenge they should be allowed. I agree that they're not our puppets to act out our phantasies etc. but given the past pinofs, they've been pretty complacent about acting things out which leave me with the impression that they don't care as much as we do. Even the tumblr tag, when someone sent a pic of them kissing they barely reacted so I bet they're used to it. At the end of the day, they have the power to choose what questions they want and don't want to use. They also edit so they'll get to choose how the video turns out, not the fans.

ladygaga wrote:off topic but important (sorry if this has been mentioned already?!) - I noticed that Phil's recent sleepless video has been properly captioned!

i'm not an expert on any of this but it would seem Phil has turned on the community captions feature, which means viewers can submit a transcript of what is being said to insert into the video
(to submit captions on a video replace 'watch' in the URL with 'timedtext_video'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2H2ZH8fZIU&t=44s

for some reason not all of his videos allow this yet i'm not sure why

this is awesome

malday wrote:I'm always a little surprised when people really believe Dan has an inability to socialize, and really has to rely on Phil (out of all people) for backup. If he doesn't socialize it's because of unwillingness not inability, imo. An unwillingness that stems from what seems to me like a narcissistic type of personality.
Now, i feel like he is transitioning from an existential-crisis-having narcissist to truly living like an existentialist, because he has given some meaning to his life.

teamug wrote:

malday wrote:I'm always a little surprised when people really believe Dan has an inability to socialize, and really has to rely on Phil (out of all people) for backup. If he doesn't socialize it's because of unwillingness not inability, imo. An unwillingness that stems from what seems to me like a narcissistic type of personality.
Now, i feel like he is transitioning from an existential-crisis-having narcissist to truly living like an existentialist, because he has given some meaning to his life.

Very opposite viewpoint from my own, not in any way less valid though. But wouldn't a narcissistic person rather talk to others than not? Or do you mean that Dan thinks too highly of himself to interact? Personally, I've thought the lack of socializing is from inability not unwillingness, mostly stemming from (IN MY OPINION) self-esteem, anxiety, and a need for external validation wherein he wants to control interactions and thus how he is perceived by others.

kuensukki wrote:

teamug wrote:

malday wrote:I'm always a little surprised when people really believe Dan has an inability to socialize, and really has to rely on Phil (out of all people) for backup. If he doesn't socialize it's because of unwillingness not inability, imo. An unwillingness that stems from what seems to me like a narcissistic type of personality.
Now, i feel like he is transitioning from an existential-crisis-having narcissist to truly living like an existentialist, because he has given some meaning to his life.

Very opposite viewpoint from my own, not in any way less valid though. But wouldn't a narcissistic person rather talk to others than not? Or do you mean that Dan thinks too highly of himself to interact? Personally, I've thought the lack of socializing is from inability not unwillingness, mostly stemming from (IN MY OPINION) self-esteem, anxiety, and a need for external validation wherein he wants to control interactions and thus how he is perceived by others.

I was about to say this!! People who have met dan IRL have said he's been shy and nervous, not because he isn't willing to interact with his fans, but just because that's the way he is. Even seeing vlogs and stuff you can see him clutching to his phone like security blanket. Rewatch the vlogs or dan clips from BONCAS and you can see how nervous and lost dan looked that phil had to look back and continue talking to him throughout. I honestly don't know how dan is changing but I don't think it's because he's becoming an existentialist, more that HES aware of his audience and what they want and is sometimes defensive or resentful about it. He also hasnt had a great year on his channel and is maybe aware of the pressures that are coming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju1d6xhCvdY#t=0
38.55 -
"No confidence. That entire weekend in Scotland was a kind of symbol for how much confidence I have yet to have. Cause a lot of people say 'wow Dan, you do a lot of public speaking and stuff, you must have X amount of confidence'. And I think definitely, as a lot of people say, doing Youtube videos helps you with your confidence and public speaking. But I'm obviously not confident enough with myself. It shows that I'm not confident about myself...you know what I mean? If I was confident about who I was, and how I looked, and how I sound, and what I'm going to talk about then I'd be like, *claps* Hi I'm Dan! Nice to meet you!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hNLyimuZZA#t=765
12.20 - He cried himself to sleep after the above incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYoP9ZsHeNM&
10.43 - "I get very anxious about a lot of stuff. I'm a very paranoid and self-critical person."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYoP9ZsHeNM&
7.54 "I can be confident when I want to be. I can do public speaking - maybe. my knees will shake a lot. I can do a radioshow. but every now and then, i will just have random acts of inexplicable, excruciating awkwardness."
(there was way more to this one, if anyone has the timecode for the full live show i'd be very grateful. don't have time to go digging right now)

edit: didn't include the recent liveshow where he said his "confidence was a pile of ash", but that's an example of an honest statement that is so difficult to ignore and not incite discussion around, but if applied to the talk of mental health becomes problematic.

malday wrote:Sorry for replying to something from a few pages back, especially since the topic has moved on.

But i was intrigued by this analysis.

I'm always a little surprised when people really believe Dan has an inability to socialize, and really has to rely on Phil (out of all people) for backup. If he doesn't socialize it's because of unwillingness not inability, imo. An unwillingness that stems from what seems to me like a narcissistic type of personality.
Now, i feel like he is transitioning from an existential-crisis-having narcissist to truly living like an existentialist, because he has given some meaning to his life.

not saying this is why you're perceiving Dan the way you do, but it isn't uncommon among fans. not understanding how tehse behaviours and emotional states correlate and thinking they contradict one another, so one must be a fabrication for comedy/brand purposes (or actual narcissism).

and the socially anxious can oscillate between avoiding speaking alltogether, withdrawn body language and rosacea; to appearing loud, extroverted, and fast talking (and misspeaking, actually). the later is overcompensatory behaviour (as opposed to 'shy', undercompensating behaviour) and leaves the person exhausted, emotionally drained and self-critical after the event.

swofro wrote: I can't say what I want to say articulately but some people do misunderstood social anxiety as arrogant and stuck up.

"Why won't he hang around with me? He gives great presentation the other day so it must not be because of his self confident issue whatsoever. He must think that he was better than me and think I am beneath him. What a stuck up douche."

As if putting up a mask (persona if you will) while doing your job is not a professional thing to do and it cancels out social anxiety.

and the socially anxious can oscillate between avoiding speaking alltogether, withdrawn body language and rosacea; to appearing loud, extroverted, and fast talking (and misspeaking, actually). the later is overcompensatory behaviour (as opposed to 'shy', undercompensating behaviour) and leaves the person exhausted, emotionally drained and self-critical after the event.

This is a great description of what social anxiety really is, thank you.

kuensukki wrote:

teamug wrote:

malday wrote:I'm always a little surprised when people really believe Dan has an inability to socialize, and really has to rely on Phil (out of all people) for backup. If he doesn't socialize it's because of unwillingness not inability, imo. An unwillingness that stems from what seems to me like a narcissistic type of personality.
Now, i feel like he is transitioning from an existential-crisis-having narcissist to truly living like an existentialist, because he has given some meaning to his life.

Very opposite viewpoint from my own, not in any way less valid though. But wouldn't a narcissistic person rather talk to others than not? Or do you mean that Dan thinks too highly of himself to interact? Personally, I've thought the lack of socializing is from inability not unwillingness, mostly stemming from (IN MY OPINION) self-esteem, anxiety, and a need for external validation wherein he wants to control interactions and thus how he is perceived by others.

I was about to say this!! People who have met dan IRL have said he's been shy and nervous, not because he isn't willing to interact with his fans, but just because that's the way he is. Even seeing vlogs and stuff you can see him clutching to his phone like security blanket. Rewatch the vlogs or dan clips from BONCAS and you can see how nervous and lost dan looked that phil had to look back and continue talking to him throughout. I honestly don't know how dan is changing but I don't think it's because he's becoming an existentialist, more that HES aware of his audience and what they want and is sometimes defensive or resentful about it. He also hasnt had a great year on his channel and is maybe aware of the pressures that are coming.

DeadlyNova wrote:

swofro wrote: I can't say what I want to say articulately but some people do misunderstood social anxiety as arrogant and stuck up.

"Why won't he hang around with me? He gives great presentation the other day so it must not be because of his self confident issue whatsoever. He must think that he was better than me and think I am beneath him. What a stuck up douche."

As if putting up a mask (persona if you will) while doing your job is not a professional thing to do and it cancels out social anxiety.

and the socially anxious can oscillate between avoiding speaking alltogether, withdrawn body language and rosacea; to appearing loud, extroverted, and fast talking (and misspeaking, actually). the later is overcompensatory behaviour (as opposed to 'shy', undercompensating behaviour) and leaves the person exhausted, emotionally drained and self-critical after the event.

This is a great description of what social anxiety really is, thank you.

I don't have too much to contribute to this conversation, I just want to add, as someone with absolutely terrible social anxiety that's been a problem for me my entire life, I had a lot of people think I was stuck up because I wouldn't talk to them. Early on my life I would sometimes completely ignore people when they spoke to me because I was terrified to try to talk to them.

It wasn't as bad later in life, but I couldn't even order fast food until my late teens. My job is one

DeadlyNova wrote:

swofro wrote: I can't say what I want to say articulately but some people do misunderstood social anxiety as arrogant and stuck up.

"Why won't he hang around with me? He gives great presentation the other day so it must not be because of his self confident issue whatsoever. He must think that he was better than me and think I am beneath him. What a stuck up douche."

As if putting up a mask (persona if you will) while doing your job is not a professional thing to do and it cancels out social anxiety.

and the socially anxious can oscillate between avoiding speaking alltogether, withdrawn body language and rosacea; to appearing loud, extroverted, and fast talking (and misspeaking, actually). the later is overcompensatory behaviour (as opposed to 'shy', undercompensating behaviour) and leaves the person exhausted, emotionally drained and self-critical after the event.

This is a great description of what social anxiety really is, thank you.

I don't have too much to contribute to this conversation, I just want to add, as someone with absolutely terrible social anxiety that's been a problem for me my entire life, I had a lot of people think I was stuck up because I wouldn't talk to them. Early on my life I would sometimes completely ignore people when they spoke to me because I was terrified to try to talk to them.

It wasn't as bad later in life, but I couldn't even order fast food until my late teens. My job is one where I have to interact with people constantly, so I tend to put on a completely different personality for it and it usually gets me through the day. But it's definitely exhausting.

uglyamerican wrote:This is an interesting discussion, and I agree with many points that have been made. But the thing I want to stress is that everybody is different, and everyone has their own level of comfort in social situations. Personally, I have no trouble conversing about subjects that I find interesting or important, but horrible at general "small talk" (it actually bores me; and it shows - I tend to be awkward and/or smirk.) So I tend to hang in corners at parties, talking to people I already know (or my definition of "cool/arty" people,) and almost universally near the food / alcohol (because, yea, and good for hand props too.) The thing that annoys me are people who insist that people need to be "social" / outgoing, to the point of ostracizing people who are not gregarious / "popular." Fucking hate that. My goal is simply to be nice, and seek other genuinely nice and thoughtful people.

kuensukki wrote:Apparently dan refusesed to hold Phil's hand during MG and fans aren't happy. I swear to god their extreme mood swings (aka saying choke me dad then gross away from holding his hand) are going to end up biting them in the butt

My theory: physical intamacy of any kind is for deppys private life only and something they rarely if ever will share with us. Hand holding I believe, is included in this.

Ticia wrote:

If this is not photoshopped, I'M SHOOK (like the youngsters say).

kuensukki wrote:Apparently dan refusesed to hold Phil's hand during MG and fans aren't happy. I swear to god their extreme mood swings (aka saying choke me dad then gross away from holding his hand) are going to end up biting them in the butt

My theory: physical intamacy of any kind is for deppys private life only and something they rarely if ever will share with us. Hand holding I believe, is included in this.

mermaid blood wrote:

I think there could be a case made for claiming narcissism if Dan displayed any narcissistic traits. social avoidance on it's own isn't one. where it gets mistaken for it is often when the observer isn't educated about social anxiety. social anxiety isn't shyness. but shy people can be. and the socially anxious can oscillate between avoiding speaking alltogether, withdrawn body language and rosacea; to appearing loud, extroverted, and fast talking (and misspeaking, actually). the later is overcompensatory behaviour (as opposed to 'shy', undercompensating behaviour) and leaves the person exhausted, emotionally drained and self-critical after the event. not saying this is why you're perceiving Dan the way you do, but it isn't uncommon among fans. not understanding how tehse behaviours and emotional states correlate and thinking they contradict one another, so one must be a fabrication for comedy/brand purposes (or actual narcissism). Of course there are many reasons to avoid socialising besides anxiety, but until I see Dan display any of them I will assume he is socially anxious and not believing himself superior. he's said it in his own words, displays uncontrollable physical cues and generally lives his life in a way that gives me more than enough reason. i wouldn't diagnose him with a functional disorder, that is only something that the institution and people who place value in the institution can do/accept.

realeyesrealize wrote:Apparently it was Phil who didn't want to hold Dan's hand? But your theory still stands and I agree so much with the mood swings thing, it must be very mentally tiring for them switching mindsets all the time. I hope someday they find peace.