IDB

rainy_days wrote:Delurking for a moment because I'm actually pretty disappointed with the recent discussion as I expect a bit more from people here. But no one has even bothered to check what Phil actually said about the film. Someone said that Phil called the film boring and that turned into "Phil didn't like the film", "he doesn't care about the issues surrounding it", "he doesn't care about those types of films" all without bothering to check the facts. But what he actually said was (possibly slightly off the bit is around 29:30 in the liveshow)

"I did enjoy it. I got slightly bored, which is unlike me. So it is one of those that you have to think about and it's quite harrowing. But it was objectively a good film."

danisahomo wrote:

So... no new video this week I guess?

I really don't understand why people idolise these two so much. They're lazy and they're talentless. Much like the other 'professional Youtubers'.

Dan last uploaded two weeks ago. And it was him telling a story we've already heard before. Wow. Much work. So hard.

Pure laziness. And they're making a pretty sum on the back of adsense and flogging merch. They have their pathetic fans (you reading) so conditioned that you serenade them with praise and adoration for uploading once in a blue moon i.e. doing the job they're being paid for.

Again, they're among the laziest Youtubers. Most Youtubers upload weekly -- they can almost justify their extremely easy 'jobs' and lifestyle. But these two don't seem to do anything for weeks on age.

What is the appeal? They look cute? Dan pays libservice to the Tumblr social justice bullshit? Their phony, manufactured 'sexually abiguous' image (oooh, are they in a relationship? let's keep watching to find out!!).

I really hope there's a significant drop off in their average views over the next year! I want to see a dent in their income. Then they'll have to find a proper job (if Dan can possibly cope?).

And shame on you slavering idiots for fawning over these wasters.

danisahomo wrote:So... no new video this week I guess?

I really don't understand why people idolise these two so much. They're lazy and they're talentless. Much like the other 'professional Youtubers'.

Dan last uploaded two weeks ago. And it was him telling a story we've already heard before. Wow. Much work. So hard.

Pure laziness. And they're making a pretty sum on the back of adsense and flogging merch. [They have their pathetic fans (you reading)/b] so conditioned that you serenade them with praise and adoration for uploading once in a blue moon i.e. doing the job they're being paid for.

Again, they're among the laziest Youtubers. Most Youtubers upload weekly -- they can almost justify their extremely easy 'jobs' and lifestyle. But these two don't seem to do anything for weeks on age.

What is the appeal? They look cute? Dan pays libservice to the Tumblr social justice bullshit? Their phony, manufactured 'sexually abiguous' image (oooh, are they in a relationship? let's keep watching to find out!!).

I really hope there's a significant drop off in their average views over the next year! I want to see a dent in their income. Then they'll have to find a proper job (if Dan can possibly cope?).

And shame on you slavering idiots for fawning over these wasters.

Thanks for your very intelligent post on insulting all of us here.

If you don't like them, why did you make an account on a DnP forum? Was it really THAT satisfying typing that post to make us all feel shitty???

Maybe you think that they are lazy because they don't upload as regularly as normal Youtubers (daily/more-than-once-a-week vloggers) or upload at the rate that they used to. But which is best?: a bad daily video posted just for the sake of it or a funny well thought-out video (imo) which has work put into it?

DnP aren't lazy: they have worked extremely hard to get to where they are now: Phil since 2006, Dan since 2009. Besides Youtube, they have hosted two radio shows and the BRIT awards online stream for three years. And they had a very busy 2015-16 with TATINOF and TABINOF, thats why their uploading schedule went very sparse. They have it back to a vid across their 3 channels once every 3-5 days now.

It's OK to have an opinion about the ship, if you think they're queerbaiting, fine, that's your opinion. At least they don't use clickbait.

Oh and a lot of us like DnP OK?!?! It's perfectly OK to like some Youtubers and not others, but its NOT OK to start making fun of us as a fanbase, and then join a forum with 1000+ DnP fans just to slag DnP and us off.

Good riddance to a TROLL! Mods, I hope you see this waster.

EDIT: I agree with everything dia says about you and at your post

malday wrote:

rainy_days wrote:Delurking for a moment because I'm actually pretty disappointed with the recent discussion as I expect a bit more from people here. But no one has even bothered to check what Phil actually said about the film. Someone said that Phil called the film boring and that turned into "Phil didn't like the film", "he doesn't care about the issues surrounding it", "he doesn't care about those types of films" all without bothering to check the facts. But what he actually said was (possibly slightly off the bit is around 29:30 in the liveshow)

"I did enjoy it. I got slightly bored, which is unlike me. So it is one of those that you have to think about and it's quite harrowing. But it was objectively a good film."

Thanks for this, i hadn't had the time to see the ls and hear what he actually said.
Bit of an overreaction to him not actually saying anything bad about the movie.

kusunoki masashige wrote:Sorry, but I'm neither on tumblr nor on twitter…are people actually disappointed in Phil over this? Or is this just a discussion going on on here?
Is there actually backlash although all he said was that it was a good movie he enjoyed but got slightly bored?

If yes…don't know about Phil but if I were him I wouldn't state any opinion on anything ever again.

danisahomo wrote:So... no new video this week I guess?

I really don't understand why people idolise these two so much. They're lazy and they're talentless. Much like the other 'professional Youtubers'.

Dan last uploaded two weeks ago. And it was him telling a story we've already heard before. Wow. Much work. So hard.

Pure laziness. And they're making a pretty sum on the back of adsense and flogging merch. They have their pathetic fans (you reading) so conditioned that you serenade them with praise and adoration for uploading once in a blue moon i.e. doing the job they're being paid for.

Again, they're among the laziest Youtubers. Most Youtubers upload weekly -- they can almost justify their extremely easy 'jobs' and lifestyle. But these two don't seem to do anything for weeks on age.

What is the appeal? They look cute? Dan pays libservice to the Tumblr social justice bullshit? Their phony, manufactured 'sexually abiguous' image (oooh, are they in a relationship? let's keep watching to find out!!).

I really hope there's a significant drop off in their average views over the next year! I want to see a dent in their income. Then they'll have to find a proper job (if Dan can possibly cope?).

And shame on you slavering idiots for fawning over these wasters.

daichii wrote:As usual, I watch Phil's liveshows. His silence on any issue is my issue with this rather than his opinion about the movie. There are so many things in which he could give his commentary, however it seems to me as if he doesn't make an effort to educate himself about any social issue or he knows/reads about it but is too scared still to say anything and that's just sad.

daichii wrote:As usual, I watch Phil's liveshows. His silence on any issue is my issue with this rather than his opinion about the movie. There are so many things in which he could give his commentary, however it seems to me as if he doesn't make an effort to educate himself about any social issue or he knows/reads about it but is too scared still to say anything and that's just sad.

nephilimcat wrote:

daichii wrote:As usual, I watch Phil's liveshows. His silence on any issue is my issue with this rather than his opinion about the movie. There are so many things in which he could give his commentary, however it seems to me as if he doesn't make an effort to educate himself about any social issue or he knows/reads about it but is too scared still to say anything and that's just sad.

I'm pretty sure he does know a lot just by living with Dan. Whether or not he also educates himself, is something we can't know. So he chooses not to say anything, I'm going to assume it's because people are going to take everything apart. As you said, he might be too scared that this happens. And now it's exactly what happened after he actually gave an opinion. See the problem here?

Some people just don't like to talk about issues or are more subtle with it. That's okay. Important to me is, that he does not support assholes.
And isn't he a great influence in other ways? He spreads kindness instead of hate, keeps out of drama, shows that being a bit different is okay and feels comfortable not being the stereotypical guy, even joking about manliness (don't know if I wrote this correctly). Isn't that already something? Everybody should do what they feel comfortable doing.

alittledizzy wrote:

malday wrote:

rainy_days wrote:Delurking for a moment because I'm actually pretty disappointed with the recent discussion as I expect a bit more from people here. But no one has even bothered to check what Phil actually said about the film. Someone said that Phil called the film boring and that turned into "Phil didn't like the film", "he doesn't care about the issues surrounding it", "he doesn't care about those types of films" all without bothering to check the facts. But what he actually said was (possibly slightly off the bit is around 29:30 in the liveshow)

"I did enjoy it. I got slightly bored, which is unlike me. So it is one of those that you have to think about and it's quite harrowing. But it was objectively a good film."

Thanks for this, i hadn't had the time to see the ls and hear what he actually said.
Bit of an overreaction to him not actually saying anything bad about the movie.

Did people think he'd said something bad about the movie? I'd seen the full quote referenced in the posts discussing this, though perhaps not on IDB so that makes sense why some responses were defensive about the movie opinion rather than having a conversation about Phil and social awareness in general. Either way, I'm glad the full quote was included here.

I've said this a couple times already, but the point for most people as far as I can tell isn't his reaction to the movie specifically - and absolutely not people making decisions on what he thinks based on just that reaction alone. The bigger conversation involves the movie as just another factor in pre-existing frustration that stems from Phil not discussing social issues.

But I'm absolutely loving everyone sharing their opinions on why Phil doesn't discuss things like that, and I agree with most if not all of it.

mermaid blood wrote:why is it sound logic to assume Phil holds opinions we've seen no evidence of? the most you can do with an absence is make assumptions, and assumptions are never enough to blindly defend anyone with.

Phil deserves just as much scrutiny as Dan on social justice issues, if not more. Prattling and backtracking and getting it wrong and sometimes getting it really right at least shows a thought process, and an active preoccupation. Dan is lumped with the majority of this pressure and expectation from the fans because of the content he makes and the way he expresses himself, whilst Phil experiences the converse. That's fine, it's up to Phil what presence he has and he's autonomous in that. BUT the conversations above me show the unfair and nonsensical outcome of this: he also benefits from what DAN says, through positive projecting and protecting?

ah, no. if you don't wish to be engaged on a certain level as a social figure and media personality the most you (fairly) win is a shrug, and an ambiguous 'well i certainly HOPE he feels ___'. you don't get to have your cake and eat it too, benefitting from the actions of someone very close to you.

The argument from the phandom 'this is why Phil doesn't express opinions' holds no water, there is no evidence for it. it's especially ridiculous as it doesn't seem to apply to Dan in any way, and arguably Dan shows more troubling signs of not coping with attention on his every opinion and decision than Phil ever has. It is a choice Phil makes, and Phil is an adult who is accountable to this choice like any other.

mermaid blood wrote:why is it sound logic to assume Phil holds opinions we've seen no evidence of? the most you can do with an absence is make assumptions, and assumptions are never enough to blindly defend anyone with.

captainspacecoat wrote:
I have nothing of worth to add to this, but this is exactly what was underlying my posts about the topic. I do think that Dan and Phil are held to different standards regarding social justice/politics etc, I feel like people take any (valid) criticism of Phil to heart whereas they're more likely to pick apart the things that Dan says. They're both grown adults, they're wealthy white men who are going to get things wrong sometimes and if people find fault with what they've said they are completely entitled to voice those criticisms. I don't think "potential social anxiety" is an excuse for staying quiet on issues of social justice personally. No, Phil isn't obliged to talk about anything he doesn't want to but I do think it wouldn't hurt for him, as a wealthy white man with a voice, to at least do the bare minimum with this sort of thing.

I adore Phil (and Dan), I think he genuinely seems like a lovely, kind-hearted man and I enjoy his content. And it's not like he never speaks about social justice issues, after all in that very same liveshow he talked about the lack of diversity in Final Fantasy XV and how he thought there should have been more female characters. I just think people shouldn't be so quick to excuse Phil or give him the benefit of the doubt when we really don't know him or his true opinions. As a consumer of Phil's content, I am entitled to voice my concern over things he has said and not just blindly take everything at face value.

Also needless to say Dan's tweet about Moonlight gets a tick of approval from me

mermaid blood wrote:why is it sound logic to assume Phil holds opinions we've seen no evidence of? the most you can do with an absence is make assumptions, and assumptions are never enough to blindly defend anyone with.

mermaid blood wrote:Phil deserves just as much scrutiny as Dan on social justice issues, if not more. Prattling and backtracking and getting it wrong and sometimes getting it really right at least shows a thought process, and an active preoccupation. Dan is lumped with the majority of this pressure and expectation from the fans because of the content he makes and the way he expresses himself, whilst Phil experiences the converse. That's fine, it's up to Phil what presence he has and he's autonomous in that. BUT the conversations above me show the unfair and nonsensical outcome of this: he also benefits from what DAN says, through positive projecting and protecting?

ah, no. if you don't wish to be engaged on a certain level as a social figure and media personality the most you (fairly) win is a shrug, and an ambiguous 'well i certainly HOPE he feels ___'. you don't get to have your cake and eat it too, benefitting from the actions of someone very close to you.

mermaid blood wrote:The argument from the phandom 'this is why Phil doesn't express opinions' holds no water, there is no evidence for it. it's especially ridiculous as it doesn't seem to apply to Dan in any way, and arguably Dan shows more troubling signs of not coping with attention on his every opinion and decision than Phil ever has. It is a choice Phil makes, and Phil is an adult who is accountable to this choice like any other.

melon lord wrote:
Two things to note: Diversity in Final Fantasy and Japanese media is a very discussed topic in general so Phil voicing his opinion on it is not groundbreaking in the slightest. Also if (general) you wants to go down that route, Final Fantasy is actually very liberating on masculinity when you consider most male protagonists are either effeminate or they are very emotional/go through very difficult times without turning into Westernised macho surly guys. Not that this absolves it of its issues, of course.

and also, "as a wealthy white man with a voice" why does Phil have to be ~The Voice~ ? Is this for the benefit of young phans to have a positive role model? Is this so that the socially aware phans can pat themselves on the back and be like "ah yes I follow the right people, they agree with my opinions!", is it so that we have more to analyse on IDB? I would much rather demand a voice from politicians than Phil. Why are his donations to the local charity not considered important? Why does his fulfilments of Make A Wish requests not amount to anything? Why does the voice of so many peers saying Phil is a lovely person not mean anything in the face of Phil stepping on a public podium and saying ~the opinion~ ?


(side note I'm not trying to shut down anyone, I'm honestly trying to converse)

pearshaped34 wrote:As much as I'd be interested in hearing Phil's opinions on just about every social and political issue out there I don't feel let down as others do that he doesn't choose to give said opinions. I consider both his and Dan's content to be be part of my mindless entertainment viewing category and I don't personally feel it some kind of requirement for people working in a public field that isn't connected to some social or political area them to give me their opinions on serious issues.

I don't consider it remotely disappointing if they choose to keep their views to themselves I think for someone in their position it's a valid and understandable choice. And admittedly I'm personally fairly confident from what I do see of Phil that his opinions won't repulse me and until he says something that makes me question that I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And to be clear him saying he found one movie that has social and political importance kind of boring is not enough to make me question and judge his viewpoint on every major issue. Mostly because I can name a dozen movies (some of them critically claimed) on issues I care about deeply that I thought were boring. Those type of movies are not always riveting even when you care.

pearshaped34 wrote:As much as I'd be interested in hearing Phil's opinions on just about every social and political issue out there I don't feel let down as others do that he doesn't choose to give said opinions. I consider both his and Dan's content to be be part of my mindless entertainment viewing category and I don't personally feel it some kind of requirement for people working in a public field that isn't connected to some social or political area them to give me their opinions on serious issues.