Dan & Phil Part 12: Stalking him until he loves you

[jaej]

most of the philtops crowd ive seen seem to base it on... age? rude manspreading? being ~more masculine~? i always saw it more as dan being vers but phil being in that crowd of dudes who, whether or not they enjoy it, wouldnt bottom.
plus guys omg dan was SO rude in 2012 he needed phil to call him names and be overly rough to make them #relationshipgoals again
i've never liked the discussions because i think speculations on if someone bottoms always tend to be incredibly invasive and eventually demeaning, especially because i don't think the people who post such detailed things about dan being a bottom would comment things so detailed or invasive for a straight couple. i think those discussions being so common mean that everything dan does (minor, innocent comments on someones attractiveness)is so incredibly hypersexualised, to a point that's passed what he jokes about himself.

[coffee pig]

I'm truly sorry for what I'm about to post, but...

if Phil does bottom, he is truly tempting fate with the amount of dairy products that he forces into his lactose intolerant body on a regular basis.

On a more serious note, I don't actually have an opinion on this subject because I'm not a guy who has sex with guys and I never will be.

And to think you used to be my favorite person on this forum...

Thank you, it's nice to hear that I am loved. I will try my best to reign in the shit jokes in the future. Unlike Phil, who can't because he keeps consuming things that are clearly upsetting his stomach. I'll take this as my sign to go to bed bye

[Lain]

Team #PhilBottoms

From 4:17

I felt compelled.

[phamnotof]

I have lots of thoughts about Phil and sex positions that are just speculation based on his reluctance with letting his more camp/feminine tendencies flourish. A lot of it goes back to how I think his family conditioning led to him growing up... not to be ashamed of his sexuality but to be ashamed of certain mannerisms or not living up to masculine ideals. (The multiple references to his 'manly' drill his dad gave him, comparing himself unfavorably to Martyn in a video, his mother listing her most embarrassing memory of him as a kid being him wanting to wear a girl's hat).

I see Dan as someone who isn't actually embarrassed at all about enjoying bottoming and isn't particularly bothered by feminine associations with it. I think (based on way more than just sex positions, but since that's what this convo is about I'm limiting it to that) that Phil is drawn to Dan's lack of shame in himself, and in my mind that could relate back to sex position too. Like could be emotionally/mentally harder to Phil to subconsciously reconcile bottoming with his concept of what he should be as a man and that leads him to really love and really value Dan's openness and how Dan embodies the things Phil struggles with.

this is very interesting, and if I thought that reasoning like this was behind the phandom's hivemind view of their preferences, then I'd be one happy cookie. (I don't, but that's a seperate conversation, and I'm glad you offered up a POV in which thinking this can't be equated with a lack of information/education.)

Also, seriously, Phil's relationship with traditional masculinity is fascinating as fuck. I had an advanced Twitter party the other day, because yes, I'm that cool, and the amount of tweets in which he says the word 'manly' is extremely note-worthy. It's definitely something shaping his world view and more than that his self-perception within that.

[Lucet]

I'm truly sorry for what I'm about to post, but...

if Phil does bottom, he is truly tempting fate with the amount of dairy products that he forces into his lactose intolerant body on a regular basis.

On a more serious note, I don't actually have an opinion on this subject because I'm not a guy who has sex with guys and I never will be.

And to think you used to be my favorite person on this forum...

Thank you, it's nice to hear that I am loved. I will try my best to reign in the shit jokes in the future. Unlike Phil, who can't because he keeps consuming things that are clearly upsetting his stomach. I'll take this as my sign to go to bed bye

Well, maybe Dan is into shitty things

As a phan-agnostic person I tend to think about all the different scenarios they could be in regarding their sex lives. Some of them:
1. Both of them running naked around their house with whips in their hands and giggling.
2. Dan being into BDSM (his "unless you consent" comments and winks are very suggestive, ya know)
3. Both of them having personal sex slaves and them being Christian Gray about it, where the slaves have to sign "shut up forever, it never happened" papers. Or them being submissive, but still it's classified

[SquishPhan]

I have lots of thoughts about Phil and sex positions that are just speculation based on his reluctance with letting his more camp/feminine tendencies flourish. A lot of it goes back to how I think his family conditioning led to him growing up... not to be ashamed of his sexuality but to be ashamed of certain mannerisms or not living up to masculine ideals. (The multiple references to his 'manly' drill his dad gave him, comparing himself unfavorably to Martyn in a video, his mother listing her most embarrassing memory of him as a kid being him wanting to wear a girl's hat).

I see Dan as someone who isn't actually embarrassed at all about enjoying bottoming and isn't particularly bothered by feminine associations with it. I think (based on way more than just sex positions, but since that's what this convo is about I'm limiting it to that) that Phil is drawn to Dan's lack of shame in himself, and in my mind that could relate back to sex position too. Like could be emotionally/mentally harder to Phil to subconsciously reconcile bottoming with his concept of what he should be as a man and that leads him to really love and really value Dan's openness and how Dan embodies the things Phil struggles with.

this is very interesting, and if I thought that reasoning like this was behind the phandom's hivemind view of their preferences, then I'd be one happy cookie. (I don't, but that's a seperate conversation, and I'm glad you offered up a POV in which thinking this can't be equated with a lack of information/education.)

Also, seriously, Phil's relationship with traditional masculinity is fascinating as fuck. I had an advanced Twitter party the other day, because yes, I'm that cool, and the amount of tweets in which he says the word 'manly' is extremely note-worthy. It's definitely something shaping his world view and more than that his self-perception within that.

Never thought about it like this, but now that I am thinking about this I feel like you are on to something. Very interesting theory.

[Winston]

I have lots of thoughts about Phil and sex positions that are just speculation based on his reluctance with letting his more camp/feminine tendencies flourish. A lot of it goes back to how I think his family conditioning led to him growing up... not to be ashamed of his sexuality but to be ashamed of certain mannerisms or not living up to masculine ideals. (The multiple references to his 'manly' drill his dad gave him, comparing himself unfavorably to Martyn in a video, his mother listing her most embarrassing memory of him as a kid being him wanting to wear a girl's hat).

I see Dan as someone who isn't actually embarrassed at all about enjoying bottoming and isn't particularly bothered by feminine associations with it. I think (based on way more than just sex positions, but since that's what this convo is about I'm limiting it to that) that Phil is drawn to Dan's lack of shame in himself, and in my mind that could relate back to sex position too. Like could be emotionally/mentally harder to Phil to subconsciously reconcile bottoming with his concept of what he should be as a man and that leads him to really love and really value Dan's openness and how Dan embodies the things Phil struggles with.

This is great reasoning. I never really thought about this. I do find it a tad bit cringe to speculate, but the way it is happening on here it is less cringey since the majority of us seem to know more than some 13 year old who wrote phan smut instead of doing her algebra homework. That said, If I do read a fic it never mattered to me who topped or bottomed, just if they were true to character and if it was well written. I had no preference or whatever you call it on who tops or bottoms in relations, but after your thoughts I may be in the PhilTops camp now. Still find it cringe though (because it seems so invasive) ngl....

[eevee]

Also, seriously, Phil's relationship with traditional masculinity is fascinating as fuck. I had an advanced Twitter party the other day, because yes, I'm that cool, and the amount of tweets in which he says the word 'manly' is extremely note-worthy. It's definitely something shaping his world view and more than that his self-perception within that.

What's your twitter? I want to be in on twitter parties. Anyway, I agree with you that Phil's relationship with masculinity is "fascinating as fuck." I feel like if I really looked into it and got less rusty on my D&P knowledge, I could easily write a paper about it. I'd have to do hella research but I could see myself writing a paper on Phil for a class that required a specimen and their relationship with heteronormativity and masculinity in today's english-speaking society.

Anyway to join the convo, I am also team #DanTops and I always have been. I based it on the stereotype of the more dominant person tops, and I saw Dan as more dominant because he takes the lead often. I've witnessed them walking places at cons and Dan always walks in front of Phil as if he is leading him. Etc. But obviously, as others have mentioned, that's a stereotype and we can't know based on that. I would agree they probably switch. Even if one prefers it one way, you'd think they'd switch to spice things up being together for so long.

[Ticia]

Animal? Check. Next tweet: breakfast food.

[eevee]

Animal? Check. Next tweet: breakfast food.

You missed the #spon tweet

[spider]

Someone said earlier not to talk about the lube thing but it's on topic and took a long time to type on mobile so it's in the spoiler.

This picture is not from . It's from Charlie charlieskies who is rumored to have dated Phil.



And of course vday.

Some people think 'all I can feel is cherry' is Dan bottoms proof because a top wouldn't 'feel' it afterwards. It has some truth to it.

I see Dan as someone who isn't actually embarrassed at all about enjoying bottoming and isn't particularly bothered by feminine associations with it. I think (based on way more than just sex positions, but since that's what this convo is about I'm limiting it to that) that Phil is drawn to Dan's lack of shame in himself, and in my mind that could relate back to sex position too. Like could be emotionally/mentally harder to Phil to subconsciously reconcile bottoming with his concept of what he should be as a man and that leads him to really love and really value Dan's openness and how Dan embodies the things Phil struggles with.

i always saw it more as dan being vers but phil being in that crowd of dudes who, whether or not they enjoy it, wouldnt bottom.

This is what I think too. It's been 6 years though and hopefully Phil has moved past those thoughts at least a little. Especially since like dizzy said from his jokes and comments Dan isn't embarrassed about bottoming or the feminine association so that attitude must help Phil.

Everyone who enjoyed the 'I won't give up on you' moment analysis. It was written during bad sleep deprivation. Thought I would log in to a page of 'wtf' reactions.

Also I feel like the specific "weird face" Phil makes is like a special "Phan denial face"? idk how to explain but I always see him making this face in situations where phan is brought up (like the wedding question in the crabstickz quiz show video) … and not at any other times?

Phil didn't make the same face in the Crabstickz quiz show. His mouth opened in surprise and he laughed awkwardly. Could write an analysis of that moment too but nobody needs that.

[Winston]

Is it just me or is their closeness somewhat unsettling? I love them, and I love that they are really close, but I find it almost claustrophobic how much time they seem to spend together. I am an only child and so maybe that is part of it, but that tweet (they) had to get a new dressing room blah blah. I got an involuntary shutter, because they have to share another space! Maybe it is just me, I need my alone time, even from my husband whom I love...seriously leave me alone!

[eevee]

I think it's endearing and adorable personally. I am jealous of it.

[karma_yeah]

This spider's brain is still broken from the Tatinof vine. That's the reason for this post. It's Dan's fault. Keep that in mind.

Instead of doing things I should do I watched this radio show clip a lot of times. It nagged me since I first saw it that we didn't know what they were thinking during the moment so I analyzed what was happening.



Anti Phan Explanation
Dan was rocking back and forth from moving closer to the desk to use the controls. He bumped into Phil and Phil bumped him back to push him out of his personal space. Dan looked at Phil like he was saying 'really?' Both of them looked at the camera and made faces to react to each other being weird. They went back to doing their job and Phil moved with the music.

The Problem With The Anti Phan Explanation
If Phil bumped into Dan to push him out of his personal space then they would have made annoyed faces to the camera instead of weird faces like 'what's going on?' Their faces made it look like they were trying to make an awkward moment not awkward. Not trying to say the other person was being annoying.
After they looked down Phil started rocking side to side which he wasn't doing before. It was like he was trying to make the first bump look like it was from dancing to the music. If he bumped Dan to get him to move over then he wouldn't need to pretend like he was moving around before. He was also moving in an exaggerated way almost like he was trying to bump Dan again so the first time wouldn't look unusual.

The Phan Explanation
When I watched this for the Anti Phan Explanation it was with volume off so the feelings in the music wouldn't make it more emotional. But I knew what the song said from watching it before and the boys had their headphones on so they were listening to the music and the lyrics. Now I watched it again with volume to know what the boys were hearing.

Dan bumped Phil on purpose. He moved towards Phil twice when he was getting closer to the desk and they were normal movements but the third time he was almost standing still and bumped into Phil on purpose with a little smile. Phil bumped into Dan and then moved away quickly like he did something he wasn't supposed to. During all of that the music said 'I won't give up on us'. Dan turned and looked at Phil during 'even if the skies get rough'. Phil took a moment to also look at him but instead of going back to what he was doing Dan kept looking at him. Phil looked at him and then they both made weird faces to the camera to get past the moment. Then Dan went back to what he was doing but Phil started bumping into him when the song said 'I'm giving you all my love'.

Conclusion
It was a Phan moment. Even though before I watched it again and again and again I thought maybe people overreacted and it wasn't. But it was.

Question

• Does the song mean something to them? Did they both have a special meaning for the song already or did they have the moment because of hearing the lyrics even though it wasn't anything special to them before?
• What were they doing? Why do they have to be like this? You were at work boys and there were probably at least 3 more people in the studio. Why were you being cute with each other?

Remember this post is Dan's fault. This spider is still waiting to be repaired and isn't responsible for any damage during this time. Please send any complaints to danisnotonfire on Twitter.

I'm sure the thread has moved past this (7 pages to read ), but I just wanted to say spider! I love, love, love that moment. I think you summed it up very well. That was no accident.

[Winston]

I think it's endearing and adorable personally. I am jealous of it.

I too find it cute etc most (97%) of the time. But then there is the practical me who possibly projects the feelings of wanting to be alone. Not quietly alone though, since I am like Dan in the way that if I have too much time to think, it turns “existentialy” and dark.

[eevee]

I think it's endearing and adorable personally. I am jealous of it.

I too find it cute etc most (97%) of the time. But then there is the practical me who possibly projects the feelings of wanting to be alone. Not quietly alone though, since I am like Dan in the way that if I have too much time to think, it turns “existentialy” and dark.

Probably why they maintain separate rooms other than to not dead giveaway to the internet they are together, but also to have a space to be alone if they wanted to. That's my guess. But I'm kinda like D&P in that when I really like someone, I like to spend all my time with them. So I guess I can't relate to what you're saying?

[karma_yeah]

Dan must have seen our complaints about his hand writing, he's probably doing it on purpose now

Maybe he's started writing in code and the note actually says "Phan is real guyz"

Get's my vote!

[sweetmm]

Damn they need to upload video soon; bunk beds theories are up again

Everyone has their favourite role in bed, and I'm inclined to think Dan is a receiver as he tend to love a bit of pain whereas Phil is such a wuss at that (amongst other traits mentioned by others). However in a long and stable relationship, partners don't stick to one role. So I think they are no fixed bunk beds in the Howlster household, they are now in queen size mode.

[eevee]

I wonder if anyone's ever happened to stay in the hotel room next to them and heard them banging. That'd be quite the story.

edit: i can imagine Dan reading this rn and just facepalming like "oh god here we go"

[karma_yeah]

Damn they need to upload video soon; bunk beds theories are up again

Everyone has their favourite role in bed, and I'm inclined to think Dan is a receiver as he tend to love a bit of pain whereas Phil is such a wuss at that (amongst other traits mentioned by others). However in a long and stable relationship, partners don't stick to one role. So I think they are no fixed bunk beds in the Howlster household, they are now in queen size mode.

I think the majority of people might agree with winston's thought and might personally find it claustrophobic. But I agree with eevee. I don’t’ think it’s odd at all, and also find it endearing, am a little jeally, etc. But everybody's different. seem to be quite comfortable with it and I've never seen anything in their behavior that struck me as unhealthy (except for some of the cringe-worthy interactions back in 2012).

You can read back through the threads if you want to get into the "co-dependence" and whether or not it's healthy convo.

[sweetmm]

Phil: They are silent blowers
(this answer a query about how they keep it quiet at the hotel )

[eevee]

For real though I hope Phil throws Dan a huge birthday bash and they have a great time with strippers and great food and male strippers ahem

I wish they were vloggers so we could see ):

[lonely trash]

Is it just me or is their closeness somewhat unsettling? I love them, and I love that they are really close, but I find it almost claustrophobic how much time they seem to spend together. I am an only child and so maybe that is part of it, but that tweet (they) had to get a new dressing room blah blah. I got an involuntary shutter, because they have to share another space! Maybe it is just me, I need my alone time, even from my husband whom I love...seriously leave me alone!

It's kinda cute, also kinda unsettling. They seem to spend a lot of time together! Even when they're out at events or parties and we get clips of it, they're literally right on top of each other and it's like, they seem to never get tired of each other. I think it's a nice thing, though, as my biggest fear has always been drifting apart from the ones that I love. It seems like that won't be happening with them anytime soon.

[Winston]

Phil: They are silent blowers
(this answer a query about how they keep it quiet at the hotel )

Oh think of the crazy inappropriate "cards" he will get! Also I was happy to see that they sat in two chairs this time. Kidding not kidding....

[greatnessflicker]

Phil: They are silent blowers
(this answer a query about how they keep it quiet at the hotel )

what a cute video. maybe i'm starved for content, but I've watched that three times. I like how it's so similar to the instagram post from dil's birthday (dan's moth shirt and phil in plaid, party hats and blowers, bad decorations in the back).

also, idk if it was a one-time slip up or how he usually pronounces it, but lol @ dan saying LAS vegas at the end there.