spaceguitar wrote:Not saying it proves anything, but I think that Louise saying Dan is single is worth consideration. You can explain it away by saying that they are very closeted so they don't tell their friends they are together. But that is still a jump from the face-level 'evidence' where someone who we have thought might know the status of D+P's relationship implies they are not together. (I'm sorry to be negative for those of u invested in phan. I'm not saying, 'Aha! i said they weren't together!', but instead 'this could point to them not being together...')
While I see what you are saying I think it is far more likely that they are closeted so they told her to not say anything along the lines of Phan.
If they are together, they are closeted. This, (I feel like I'm saying this a lot lately) does disprove phan a bit, at least for me. How isolated (socially) would they be to have their guard up among friends? You could argue that she's not that close to them, but to call Dan an eligible bachelor? After hanging out with them without cameras?
The tide has been changing lately, it feels. Maybe it's just Tatinof ending, new chapter and that who knows.
Thx this is totally the point I wanted to make. Also I highly doubt if Louise knew that they were together (as Galactic-Howell seemed to suggest), she would call Dan an 'eligible bachelor'. That would be some serious overcompensating.
spaceguitar wrote:Lol I'm putting on my non-phan goggles again.
I don't mean this in a harsh way, but if we're going to be impartial on whether or not phan is 'real' I think we should listen when we get new evidence.
PS i would not want to marry either of them but I like Dan more (when he doesn't annoy me) so I choose him.
Its not a matter of or not, its just stating the truth, Louise isnt as close to dan as some people think, yes they do have similar sense of humor and a loud personality that makes them have fun when they are together chilling, but that doesnt mean they share deep stuff, specially if we take by fact that even though they live in the same city they hardly meet, (also dont talk on the phone [ex: her not knowing it was still his number]) from my po i think the only internet people that we can count as close deppy are byrony, wirrow, mimei, duncan and thats it. all besides the above are acquaintances ,"FUN acquaintances" but acquaintances none the less.
This whole ordeal of Louise providing proof or not about dan is like saying Hazel providing proof about phil.
I don't think Mimei and Duncan are close to D&P at all... For one they live in Japan which isn't exactly around the corner and only met for the first time ever last year. Phil and Duncan do go way back as internet friends, but not close enough to really warrant that level of trust. Mimei, bless her, is a phangirl. People found Phan stuff in her Tumblr likes (which she quickly privated after that) during Japhan.
The only people that they're close to on a private level (that we know off) to Bryony, Wirrow, Peej and his gf Sophie, and probably Phil's childhood friend Ian. If D&P are together at this point in time and not completely closeted, they're the people I think would know.
Catallena wrote:
I don't think Mimei and Duncan are close to D&P at all... For one they live in Japan which isn't exactly around the corner and only met for the first time ever last year. Phil and Duncan do go way back as internet friends, but not close enough to really warrant that level of trust. Mimei, bless her, is a phangirl. People found Phan stuff in her Tumblr likes (which she quickly privated after that) during Japhan.
The only people that they're close to on a private level (that we know off) to Bryony, Wirrow, Peej and his gf Sophie, and probably Phil's childhood friend Ian. If D&P are together at this point in time and not completely closeted, they're the people I think would know.
I'm a bit surprised she liked Phan posts. Did not know about that.
And, I honestly don't think Peej is so close to them anymore. they were fairly 'alone' for the entirety of their tour, not really collabing
when you first saw her-beauty, the dream- the human vortex of your life- or him - did you stop, and stand in the crisp air, breathing like a tree? did you change your life?
Catallena wrote:
I don't think Mimei and Duncan are close to D&P at all... For one they live in Japan which isn't exactly around the corner and only met for the first time ever last year. Phil and Duncan do go way back as internet friends, but not close enough to really warrant that level of trust. Mimei, bless her, is a phangirl. People found Phan stuff in her Tumblr likes (which she quickly privated after that) during Japhan.
The only people that they're close to on a private level (that we know off) to Bryony, Wirrow, Peej and his gf Sophie, and probably Phil's childhood friend Ian. If D&P are together at this point in time and not completely closeted, they're the people I think would know.
I'm a bit surprised she liked Phan posts. Did not know about that.
And, I honestly don't think Peej is so close to them anymore. they were fairly 'alone' for the entirety of their tour, not really collabing
I don't remember what exactly she liked, but she was a bit of a shipper apparently. Maybe if you go back to the old GG threads you'll find something.
And I agree that Peej and D&P seem to have grown apart a bit lately. Peej is now close with Felix, which makes sense considering they're in Brighton while D&P are in London. And D&P are just constantly busy, especially this year with them being in the US for two months and all. A few weeks ago when Bryony and Wirrow came over to their place must've been the first time in like six months they hung out like that with them.
Catallena wrote:
I don't remember what exactly she liked, but she was a bit of a shipper apparently. Maybe if you go back to the old GG threads you'll find something.
And I agree that Peej and D&P seem to have grown apart a bit lately. Peej is now close with Felix, which makes sense considering they're in Brighton while D&P are in London. And D&P are just constantly busy, especially this year with them being in the US for two months and all. A few weeks ago when Bryony and Wirrow came over to their place must've been the first time in like six months they hung out like that with them.
Ye old website does not function, like at all. Unless it was explicit phanart, I don't find it too odd.
And, honestly I can't imagine being so isolated and spending so much time with one person. I genuinely can't imagine having someone who I would choose to eat breakfast with, even when we spend the whole day together because of work. And.. now I see why they fail in social interactions. Lol they're too attached!
when you first saw her-beauty, the dream- the human vortex of your life- or him - did you stop, and stand in the crisp air, breathing like a tree? did you change your life?
Catallena wrote:
I don't remember what exactly she liked, but she was a bit of a shipper apparently. Maybe if you go back to the old GG threads you'll find something.
And I agree that Peej and D&P seem to have grown apart a bit lately. Peej is now close with Felix, which makes sense considering they're in Brighton while D&P are in London. And D&P are just constantly busy, especially this year with them being in the US for two months and all. A few weeks ago when Bryony and Wirrow came over to their place must've been the first time in like six months they hung out like that with them.
Ye old website does not function, like at all. Unless it was explicit phanart, I don't find it too odd.
And, honestly I can't imagine being so isolated and spending so much time with one person. I genuinely can't imagine having someone who I would choose to eat breakfast with, even when we spend the whole day together because of work. And.. now I see why they fail in social interactions. Lol they're too attached!
Well I said maybe. I don't think it was anything scandalous, just made people raise their eyebrows a bit.
JoeAverage wrote:Its not a matter of or not, its just stating the truth, Louise isnt as close to dan as some people think, yes they do have similar sense of humor and a loud personality that makes them have fun when they are together chilling, but that doesnt mean they share deep stuff, specially if we take by fact that even though they live in the same city they hardly meet, (also dont talk on the phone [ex: her not knowing it was still his number]) from my po i think the only internet people that we can count as close deppy are byrony, wirrow, mimei, duncan and thats it. all besides the above are acquaintances ,"FUN acquaintances" but acquaintances none the less.
This whole ordeal of Louise providing proof or not about dan is like saying Hazel providing proof about phil.
Okay, when Louise was rumored to have told a fan at Playlist that "we just don't know" in terms of Phan being real, then this same mindset applies, right? Or were Louise and Dan considered closer friends at that point in time? I agree that Louise and Dan aren't super close, but when people start making excuses, moving goal posts, and become selective with their information, it doesn't quite sit right with me. This may not even be your intentions when you made this post, but it does read as it.
On that same note, I feel that phan believers that focus too hard on the small details and get discouraged really easily are also forgetting the mountains of other information that made them believers in the first place. So, I don't consider this that big of a deal. It's fine. You can call me one of those immovable phannies. :^)
violet-writer wrote: Ye old website does not function, like at all. Unless it was explicit phanart, I don't find it too odd.
The only thing that Mimei liked that has remained in my memory is this.
when you first saw her-beauty, the dream- the human vortex of your life- or him - did you stop, and stand in the crisp air, breathing like a tree? did you change your life?
spaceguitar wrote:Not saying it proves anything, but I think that Louise saying Dan is single is worth consideration. You can explain it away by saying that they are very closeted so they don't tell their friends they are together. But that is still a jump from the face-level 'evidence' where someone who we have thought might know the status of D+P's relationship implies they are not together. (I'm sorry to be negative for those of u invested in phan. I'm not saying, 'Aha! i said they weren't together!', but instead 'this could point to them not being together...')
I'm always surprised when people say that other YTers (especially ones D&P have spent relatively more time with than others) don't know if 'phan is real' or not. Whether they're together or not, it really makes no sense that most people wouldn't know. Whatever the situation, PJ knows. PJ is friends with Felix, with Dean Dobbs, Tomska. The entire UK crew is connected to each other by groups of friends and have been for years, they have shared histories before varied successes and goals split their trajectories. If there was something to know, word would have gotten around by 2016 my god. There's been an ongoing game of Telephone circulating since 2010 ("YTers gossip more than you do behind closed doors" and all). And if they don't KNOW (as in D&P are fully open with them about it in person), then they have an idea based on what they've heard from other people who may or may not know, or have a good idea based on better info and sources, and so on. Louise fucking knows whatever there is to know; how does it possibly make sense that she could not? If they're together, she knows that. If they're not together and/or dating others, she knows that.
So why would she call Dan an eligible bachelor?
1. Because that's what she knows him to be. A single guy.
2. Because she knows he's keeping his relationship (with whoever) private and is therefore assumed single by the countless fans that will read this article, she feels fine going along with that narrative (maybe even helpful for doing so)
3. Because Louise dgaf and is flirty as heck and has consistently over the years called Dan cute and therefore when asked essentially 'who do you like on YT', he's the first one that comes to mind.
People act like it's scandalous to crush on 'taken' people or say flirty things like we're living in the 50s and anybody gives a shit about propriety. oh hey guys don't forget to raise up your pinkies while drinking your tea and repressing all sexual thoughts because never forget they're immoral and untoward: #protip
(I mean we're talking about the lady who, as a married woman at the time because I guess that kind of information makes a difference to what's considered 'appropriate' talk between friends/colleagues, told Dan she would rather he finger her than touch her stomach. Typical boundaries are not things she (or he) is concerned with is my point. People don't choose their words as carefully as so many people want them to, life isn't made up of clean lines mkay).
Anyway. All of that to say that one line given in good fun for a fluff interview with a shitty pandering online magazine that makes up quizzes about distinguishing between Phil and a pumpkin spice latte is hardly a binding verbal admission that Dan is single and ready to mingle. It's an admission that Dan's cute and Louise has eyes. But we knew that already.
oops only tangentially-related word vomit i don't know what happened:
In this same train of thought: how interesting is it that offhand remarks from other people are grabbed at and used as anti 'evidence' (no matter how flimsy, how vague) and all the actual 'evidence' (vold....) is waved away. The biggest admission straight from the horse's mouth is obviously a prank. Just like it's fact that D&P were introduced by a mutual friend. But whoa guys, pewdiepie once said we'll never see them fuck, therefore they're not together. Need to weigh all the evidence, y'hear?
HERE's another question I've been thinking about. People constantly use the idea that if D&P are together, then one of their friends would have 'slipped up' at some point in the last 7 years and outed them, but since that hasn't happened to an acceptable enough degree (p sure that goalpost has never been nailed down, it keeps moving), it's taken as proof they're not together. But if they're dating other people, wouldn't their "friends" (I'm not even sure who specifically people have in mind when saying this. PJ? Like they don't hang around with yappy untrustworthy people... so who?) have outed that. Wouldn't somebody say something about Dan & Phil and their joint single lives? [she says while initially responding to Louise calling Dan a bachelor, but shh].
Nobody talks about D&P's relationship status(es). So if it's hard to believe nobody has outed them as being together, it should also be hard to believe that nobody has outed them as being with other people. Or discuss setting them up because they're so lovely and ooh I've got just the friend for him... Why is it off the table? Because these people know they're together and that they don't want it out there. Oh, or "because it will upset the phangirls". There's also the fun conspiracy that YTers are afraid to tell the truth about D&P being single because it will bring the wrath of the overly invested phannies down upon them and how scary, ooh terrifying powerful teenagers on the internet can force every YT personality to censor themselves on one specific subject. Sure Jan. And you know what, even if that is the case, it just serves to prove that the internet community IS capable of keeping their mouths shut about things that don't concern them. And it's up to each individual to decide what they personally think the conspiracy is centred around. People are protecting Actual Phan (but i don't know, it's so difficult to refrain from discussing the private romantic lives of your friends and/or colleagues in public with strangers), or people are protecting themselves(bc tumblr is always watching.. i guess) by avoiding admitting Phan Ain't Real. But which one makes more sense?????? Life is so hard sometimes.
It's a bit OT and on-topic at the same time so I'm not really sure whether to put it under a spoiler or not.
But sometimes I find that a lot of anti-phans (those that vehemently deny against even the possibility of phan being real) are more condescending than the shippers, and it's a major reason why I tend to stray away from them and go to the shipping posts. Sure there are "demon phannies", but a majority of the shippers are actually quite respectful towards the shipping (i.e, they talk about it in their little corner of the internet and not direct it towards dan and phil). So I really hate it when antis go on a rampage and call the shippers names and degrade their intelligence. Honestly, a lot of people do flip flop (me included) about whether phan is real or not, but I truly think that the major reason I'm more shipper than agnostic is because of the lovely people I see (not meet cause I'm not good at making friends even within the community) that ship them and the absolute toxicity I see in the anti-blogs. There's only one anti-blog I liked so far that was fairly objective and not condescending.
I just don't get the way they're approaching the shipping. If they really want people to stop believing in phan, shouldn't they go about it in a way that's constructive (i.e. give proof, make objective discussions that doesn't talk down on others and instead explains their side), because their toxicity is actually off-putting and pushing others away who would have listened to them. Honestly I like seeing anti-proof as much as phan proof because it keeps me grounded, but recently I've been avoiding all the anti-proof because the people that spout it have "I'm-better-than-you" attitudes and they humiliate the shippers and call them names and that just rubs me the wrong way because one can disagree without being disagreeable and they are being very disagreeable. Same reason why I avoid phan blogs that do this too (those that don't do it in a jokey and ironic way).
Fyi, one of the anti-blogs that's quite popular actually talked bad about IDB, and it irritated me a lot. I try to avoid them but I can't when they're on the tags. I honestly think that IDB is one of the most respectful communities because even when we don't agree with each other over a lot of things we do try to not disrespect each other. The internet will be a whole lot nicer if this will spread over Tumblr and Twitter though.
P.s. To the antis: I know that you do lurk here. So please do take this into consideration. I get what you're trying to do, but it's actually not working and instead, it drives people away. I'm also not saying that we're better than you because at the end of the day, being better is just a societal construct anyway. What I'm saying is, please reassess how you do your "convincing" because your methods apparently do not help you reach your intended end and just brings about toxicity and becomes an avenue for humiliating and shaming others for their own beliefs. :/
fancybum wrote:
oops only tangentially-related word vomit i don't know what happened:
In this same train of thought: how interesting is it that offhand remarks from other people are grabbed at and used as anti 'evidence' (no matter how flimsy, how vague) and all the actual 'evidence' (vold....) is waved away. The biggest admission straight from the horse's mouth is obviously a prank. Just like it's fact that D&P were introduced by a mutual friend. But whoa guys, pewdiepie once said we'll never see them fuck, therefore they're not together. Need to weigh all the evidence, y'hear?
Nobody talks about D&P's relationship status(es). So if it's hard to believe nobody has outed them as being together, it should also be hard to believe that nobody has outed them as being with other people. Or discuss setting them up because they're so lovely and ooh I've got just the friend for him... Why is it off the table? Because these people know they're together and that they don't want it out there. Oh, or "because it will upset the phangirls". There's also the fun conspiracy that YTers are afraid to tell the truth about D&P being single because it will bring the wrath of the overly invested phannies down upon them and how scary, ooh terrifying powerful teenagers on the internet can force every YT personality to censor themselves on one specific subject. Sure Jan. And you know what, even if that is the case, it just serves to prove that the internet community IS capable of keeping their mouths shut about things that don't concern them. And it's up to each individual to decide what they personally think the conspiracy is centred around. People are protecting Actual Phan (but i don't know, it's so difficult to refrain from discussing the private romantic lives of your friends and/or colleagues in public with strangers), or people are protecting themselves(bc tumblr is always watching.. i guess) by avoiding admitting Phan Ain't Real. But which one makes more sense?????? Life is so hard sometimes.
This whole post was really interesting to read
I wanted to respond to one specific point: The denial of history (namely, 2009) to fit into an anti's narrative. I don't discount the discordance in being an 'anti'. Some things throw me for a loop; voldy, 2009, AmazingDan (the flirting ) the timeline, the lies, 2012... I always just conclude that it's easier to assume they're platonic. I mean, in 2009 they flirted a lot. But, its 2016 and all relationships change. It's easier for me to go along with the narrative that they provide, and as a former Larry shipper ( ) I'm just hesitant to assume otherwise.
The Phan Machine is tuned and oiled well. It seems we'll never get the answer (from them at least), but always discuss it.
jokes jokes!
when you first saw her-beauty, the dream- the human vortex of your life- or him - did you stop, and stand in the crisp air, breathing like a tree? did you change your life?
JoeAverage wrote:
This whole ordeal of Louise providing proof or not about dan is like saying Hazel providing proof about phil.
Hazel may know a lot more about in comparative to Louise (to what extend we never know) as she was managing them when she was working with google/youtube UK way back before she was a youtuber herself.
violet-writer wrote:
And, I honestly don't think Peej is so close to them anymore. they were fairly 'alone' for the entirety of their tour, not really collabing
Nah they are still close, just not often together due to logistics. The fact that slept at Peejs' cosy loft instead of hotel when they were in Brighton just indicate their level of "friendship intimacy". Don't forget them celebrating Peej's bday too.
[offtopic]Totally Off-topic, but let me just take this out there:
A few minutes ago, my friends and I were watching a "Phan Moments Compilation" (...both of them are kinda Dangirls anyway), and my mom comes out in the living room then after a few minutes, she said, "Are they gay?" ...I just have to stop for second right there, like, seriously...WHUT.[/offtopic]
I just wanted to bring this to the discussion. All relationships are performed to a degree. Facebook is one of the worst offenders here. People post what they want the world to see and it's easy to assume that's the truth. For example one of my friends has a great relationship- on facebook. They have loads of friends, great social life etc. It's only recently I've found out that they're on the verge of splitting up and one of them is having an affair. I've known for 2 months but their facebook accounts are just the same as ever and I have no idea how far back their problems go.
Whatever we see of phan is only what they allow us to see. Obviously on their videos but even in the background of other vlogs it's still just how they behave in public.
I come on idb because I'm nosey and I'm interested in them. My enjoyment of their videos doesn't hinge on whether they're together or not but honestly I would like to know. I don't think we can can definitively say one way or another though unless they come out and tell us and even then we won't ever know how they really are with each other.
[offtopic]I was hoping to find DAPGOOSE on the venue for the Wilshire Ebell Theater in LA and they are not. The theater's FB page doesn't mention them either.
Sorry for another post, but this is kind of a part of the discussion that I want to add, so pardon me.
Anyways, I do agree that they control Phan. No matter what we say or do, they still have a tight hold on us (when it's concerning Phan) because they choose what to leave in, and what to remove. From what I can get, they want privacy, and adding ambuigity over their lives is a better solution than misdirecting the fans' attention from their lives. Umm...do you get me?
Like, they're telling us that at some point, we DO know them, but in the end... they're still the ones who gives us all of the information we know, and that we'll never have a way of knowing what happens in their lives. They're telling us that they have boundaries, and they respect ours, so they want us to respect theirs (which we do, but speculations are fun, but maybe for them, it isn't...)
Also... What if they're really just completely platonic bros who happens to flirt with each other because they have no one else to flirt with that they're comfortable with? What if no one slips us because there is nothing to slip up? And if there is, it's too personal for the camera? Or when the people they know slip-up, maybe it's because when they do, their personal opinions are mixed with it? What if Deppy doesn't even tell anyone that they're not together because their friends immediately thought that they're together, and with that, their friends might slip-up?
I'm excessively sorry for this mess of a post, but my friend is screaming while watching Lights Out, and everything is a jumbled mess inside my head. Until then, my fellow IDB-ers
Wow this thread has moved fast! To reply to the question of whether there are casual fans who watch them without any interest in Phan, I'll say that's me I think I've been watching them for about six years now but I've never seen them as anything more than good friends, and their relationship (whatever it may be) doesn't affect the way I watch their videos. I also tend to skip over Phan discussions when I lurk in forums (#bedgate etc.) because I just don't feel that interested in that aspect of D&P.
Also I kinda feel that everyone has personas whether online or IRL (like at work we act differently from how we are in private) and all these personas do add up to who we are as people - so for Dan and Phil, even though we may feel that they don't always show their "true selves" in their videos and heavily edit/control their image, it is still an aspect of who they are - just my thoughts though!
Re the VR video that Dan put out: It's really blurry for me and the constant spinning makes me feel rather sick I'm afraid Not sure if there's a way to fix that!
violet-writer wrote:and as a former Larry shipper ( )
my goodness, is there life after being a larry shipper? do you guys have a support group? :mrgreen:
bantstrash wrote:I just wanted to bring this to the discussion. All relationships are performed to a degree. Facebook is one of the worst offenders here. People post what they want the world to see and it's easy to assume that's the truth.
yep, exactly. just recently i was browsing through hazel's instagram and saw one pic with jack (ugh, is there a couple more pretentious than them?) under which she wrote "You see a lot of cute photos of us at parties and premieres. What you don't see are the tough times and the tears; the understanding patience, love and support shown in those moments, the ones that really define a relationship." Then of course she ended it with a less deep "the man's lovely" lol, but the words preceding it were quite nice. It's difficult to remember that even when you stan for an actual couple, even the people you know, you only see what they show you, and when it comes to people you don't personally know you mostly just see a shell of their relationship.
violet-writer wrote:and as a former Larry shipper ( )
my goodness, is there life after being a larry shipper? do you guys have a support group? :mrgreen:
That actually made me giggle! The accuracy.. My poor deluded soul.
when you first saw her-beauty, the dream- the human vortex of your life- or him - did you stop, and stand in the crisp air, breathing like a tree? did you change your life?
RiriPandaHeart2 wrote:
P.s. To the antis: I know that you do lurk here. So please do take this into consideration. I get what you're trying to do, but it's actually not working and instead, it drives people away. I'm also not saying that we're better than you because at the end of the day, being better is just a societal construct anyway. What I'm saying is, please reassess how you do your "convincing" because your methods apparently do not help you reach your intended end and just brings about toxicity and becomes an avenue for humiliating and shaming others for their own beliefs. :/
Lurk? I am a decently regular poster here I just no longer participate in these discussions, bc it's frustrating talking to a wall. I see zero desire in people to approach anti phan evidence with open mind as I do the phan evidence. Instead, it's like people immediately spring to find a way to dismiss it and mock it. For example, how many of you read the antiphan time line, a very indepth and reasoned deconstruction of phan time line that even many phan people that read it agree with?
And I get it, I really do. I would very much like if those two trash lords were together after all. And what do you mean - " get what you're trying to do"? I am just here to trash in peace
gnostic wrote:
Lurk? I am a decently regular poster here I just no longer participate in these discussions, bc it's frustrating talking to a wall. I see zero desire in people to approach anti phan evidence with open mind as I do the phan evidence. Instead, it's like people immediately spring to find a way to dismiss it and mock it. For example, how many of you read the antiphan time line, a very indepth and reasoned deconstruction of phan time line that even many phan people that read it agree with?
And I get it, I really do. I would very much like if those two trash lords were together after all. And what do you mean - " get what you're trying to do"? I am just here to trash in peace
I'm not talking about those that do engage in discussions with people and do it respectfully. I'm talking about those blogs that openly mock and belittle the "shippers" for being delusional (and this is the nicest thing they've ever said about it). I did read the antiphan timeline, which I hope is the same thing you've read, and which I loved as it gave me another point of view. I really felt it was super short and I wanted more. I do hope it's an ongoing project and that the makers do finish it. The anti-phan blog that I said was very objective and that I liked actually led me to it. I do accept that some shippers do mock and dismiss anti-phan evidence, but a lot of people are actually flip-flopping and do try to consider both sides of the argument. My point was just I was really bothered by the mocking attitude that anti-phan blogs have (not all, but the popular ones do). What I meant when I said that I get what they're trying to do is that I'm assuming that the purpose of having an anti-phan blog is to show the "other side of the phan argument [that they're not together and are just platonic biffles]" and I find it weird that it's approached with a condescending and "I'm-better-than-you" attitude because I think that attitude drives people away (or worse, it makes people defensive). So isn't it defeating the very purpose as to why they've set up the blogs? Or am I completely misunderstanding and somehow the purpose of the blogs is to show that non-shippers are better than shippers? (which I really hope not). It's just that I find it ironic that they make fun of shippers which is really counter-productive. I would love to listen to what anti-phans have to say (as I said, it keeps me grounded) but if it's surrounded with mockingness then the message is lost in the delivery. Or maybe it's just me and I'm being sensitive about it. I dunno. It just rubbed me the wrong way.
000dia000 wrote:Recent thoughts:
Personally, I want them to be happy and it's not my agenda to define their happiness by my own values, or the phandoms. I don't think they celebrate their phanniversary because it's not really their anniversary, they have a whole life we don't know about and what we think is a large concept of their lives could be complete meaningless. We know a lot about danisnotonfire and AmazingPhil. But we don't know the real Dan or Phil, if they are together, not or even completely different people. Maybe I'll always like this wall between the "creator" and "audience" and for them to have some privacy, some special moment in their lives kept sentimental between the two of them.
I quoted you post and edited it to fit my reply as I agreed with most of what you said. The thing that stuck out to me the most though was the "we don't know the real Dan or Phil". I 100% agree with you. As Dan has said before in an interview, he wants to keep his real life private, he doesn't want to turn into one of these celebrities that are in the news day after day, with their every move scrutinized. Maybe that's why I'm not bothered about their relationship, like you said, I want them to be happy whatever.
They give us insight into their brands when they release a video, it is edited to how they want us to see it, there is nothing given to us that they aren't happy to show. I do feel bad for them when they're out to dinner and they've not tweeted about it, yet fans see them and feel that it's okay to approach them. If they are working then fair enough, but going out with friends/management/book peeps that they've decided not to mention which then get plastered all over social media just makes me feel bad for them in honesty.
000dia000 wrote:Recent thoughts:
Personally, I want them to be happy and it's not my agenda to define their happiness by my own values, or the phandoms. I don't think they celebrate their phanniversary because it's not really their anniversary, they have a whole life we don't know about and what we think is a large concept of their lives could be complete meaningless. We know a lot about danisnotonfire and AmazingPhil. But we don't know the real Dan or Phil, if they are together, not or even completely different people. Maybe I'll always like this wall between the "creator" and "audience" and for them to have some privacy, some special moment in their lives kept sentimental between the two of them.
I quoted you post and edited it to fit my reply as I agreed with most of what you said. The thing that stuck out to me the most though was the "we don't know the real Dan or Phil". I 100% agree with you. As Dan has said before in an interview, he wants to keep his real life private, he doesn't want to turn into one of these celebrities that are in the news day after day, with their every move scrutinized. Maybe that's why I'm not bothered about their relationship, like you said, I want them to be happy whatever.
They give us insight into their brands when they release a video, it is edited to how they want us to see it, there is nothing given to us that they aren't happy to show. I do feel bad for them when they're out to dinner and they've not tweeted about it, yet fans see them and feel that it's okay to approach them. If they are working then fair enough, but going out with friends/management/book peeps that they've decided not to mention which then get plastered all over social media just makes me feel bad for them in honesty.
I agree with all of this. To me Phan™ is the phandom's, it's not really about . When I talk about them in my head it's always a clear distinction but in my writing here maybe not always.. But I feel like, Phan definitely is not real because it's like this patchwork quilt the phandom's made over the years of things said, did, etc.
It's like archaeology, we patch together an image of them based on what we find (and in this case; are shown), but in the end we're always stuck to our own bias and we just don't know them. We're not really there. What we see and assign meaning to probably is very random a lot of times.
Ye old 
I don't think it was anything scandalous, just made people raise their eyebrows a bit.
Um, wow.
) the timeline, the lies, 2012... I always just conclude that it's easier to assume they're platonic. I mean, in 2009 they flirted a lot. But, its 2016 and all relationships change. It's easier for me to go along with the narrative that they provide, and as a former Larry shipper ( 
) I'm just hesitant to assume otherwise.
I've been watching them for about six years now but I've never seen them as anything more than good friends, and their relationship (whatever it may be) doesn't affect the way I watch their videos. I also tend to skip over Phan discussions when I lurk in forums (#bedgate etc.) because I just don't feel that interested in that aspect of D&P. 
