Dan & Phil Part 29: Horton hears two b*tch ass liars

[eevee]

I don't really see how this video was a new level of shipbaity compared to stuff they've done in other videos. If anything, it's a throwback to their earliest (more suggestive) content and a more chill attitude in general. I mean not backpaddeling on every innuendo and leaving a lot of the more natural reactions in. And I love it!

This!! I really don't see what the big deal is. This is pretty much nothing new.

[teamug]

Frankenstein is the creator, not the monster. Though who really is the monster is the point of the book. Otherwise, loved the baking vid.

[psychicmoth]

I’m rewatching it right now and jfc those giggles, they were having so much fun and I love it.



I'm curious about Dan's live show today too, I have some important questions that need to be answered:
How are their sugar lvls today?
How have they survived until now without know how a can opener works?
In which context did their neighbors call the police before?
Are we going to be blessed with a Christmas baking video?


Meh, I don’t want to be too analytic about this video because I don't think that's necessary. I just have to say that I find a little difficult to discuss queer bating when we just are seeing two guys having so much fun in the kitchen. Yes, they were flirty and fanservice-y, take it as you will, but I see it as part of their normal behavior, I think we has seen enough videos to know that inapropiate jokes, innuendos and awkward sexual comments are part of their friendship/whatever they have. This video just showed us more of this behavior -a lot more lol- but isn't something new at all. Anyways, they seemed very happy, this time they were a little more themselves and that was so fucking great.

[SquishPhan]

Are you saying that when two men look each other in the eyes or touch each other that this means they must be in a romantic relationship?
Because about every ship uses still frames of the proclaimed lovers being intimate with each other. So clearly all ships are real.

You are right, let's not go by heasay. Actually, when you want to know the truth of the matter don't go by hearsay or still frames or tweets or carefully edited video's.
I have no problem admitting that i'm not certain of many of my thoughts about Dan and Phil because i admit that we as an audience simply aren't in a position where we can claim to know things. I think there is a lot open for debate.:

If the vday video didn't exist and the first year of Dan and Phil as documented on social media didn't exist, your argument would have more weight. But those things do exist, which means no one is basing a belief in phan or not simply on still frames or looks.

(Now I'm going back to happy stuff.)

Having just a few pages back seen the dates that Dan and Phil saw each other early on in their relationship helps me in my believe that Phan is a real thing (among many other things).

[fancybum]

Been there, done that. Mass delusion are you words, I think they are a bit harsh given all the ambiguity in their interaction.
Are you saying that when two men look each other in the eyes or touch each other that this means they must be in a romantic relationship?
Because about every ship uses still frames of the proclaimed lovers being intimate with each other. So clearly all ships are real. :

Where did I even give a hint of saying that? Or are you referring to the attraction threads? Because eye contact is not remotely what they discuss and to reduce people's perceptions of D&P's relationship down to only that is willfully dishonest. To do it to their sexualities, which is what I was referring to, is even worse. People can accuse whoever they want for 'wearing goggles' but the criticisms don't hold much weight when coming from those wearing blindfolds.

[nephilimcat]

Also, i think that their sexuality isn't in any way obvious. They haven't really said much about it.
-Phil hasn't really spoken out it years. He once said he was bi on some social media profile. He is rumoured to have had relationships with guys, of which we know very little.
-Dan has contradicted himself on social media. He once said he was pansexual, he at other times denied being gay. He has said that he was in relationship with a girl for about 2 years.
That's about it really, if we don't want to use how we think they behave in vids.

How did he contradict himself? He said he was bi (and sort-of said he was pan?), and then he said he wasn't gay. A lot. There's not a contradiction in there? And "if we don't want to use how we think they behave in vids." why not? What about what they say in videos can't be used? And also, yeah, Phil hasn't really said much about his attraction to anyone (nor expressed it) but so what? Why does that mean when he said he was bi it wasn't true? (Also I realize this might come off as kind of rude, and trust me, I'm not trying to be, I've just had similar conversations like this with a lot of people so after a while I get annoyed at seeing the same thing said over and over again.)

Thanks for saying this! Bi or pan does not equal gay, being in a relationship with the opposite sex does not equal straight, saying you aren't gay does not equal saying you are straight. Did Dan ever call himself straight? Did Phil? Because if not, we should not assume they are. Using straight as the default is just as rude as calling someone gay without them saying they are. As long as someone doesn't state their sexuality (deleted statements don't count as an actual statement because there was a reason why the person deleted them), they are neither gay nor straight.
However, if someone mentions male and female attraction (aka Dan), we can say they are to some extent into both. It doesn't have to be 50/50 and it doesn't mean we are allowed to stick a label onto him, but Dan does own a Haru pillow, he calls Evan Peters his a celebrity crush, makes comments about hot guys, etc. So why is the first thought people tend to have that it's just to be relatable or queerbaiting and when he's mentioning a hot woman, people assume he's straight? Stupid question, I can answer this myself: Heteronormativity.
Shippers and non-shippers alike tend to dismiss every hint that they don't like and often completely ignore polysexual orientations. How often do I watch Phan-crack videos and the "Why the fuck you lying?"-guy appears when Dan speaks about women or says he's not gay. Hate to break it to you, but if Dan doesn't label himself as gay, he is not gay. And that doesn't mean Phan isn't real. Just as both of them being into men doesn't mean Phan is real. But apparently it's hard to think outside to box. Which Dan even mentioned in his diss track.

[yupitsme]

I wonder what PINOF will be like this year after seeing this baking video. The style/editing is rather different of course, but I am curious to see whether we will see some of last night's mood/atmosphere/behavior back.

Also, in the whole (ship)baiting discussion I think it is important to keep the audience in mind as well. The survey showed that there were a lot of teenage viewers that identified as non-straight. For them, I think Deppy (if they are indeed in a relationship) can be such a great example of it being possible to be 'non-straight' and still be succesfull/happy/hot/rich/popular/in a loving relationship/whatever aspiration you might have. Yes, to a lot of people that might seem like the most obvious thing ever, but I'm sure quite a lot of (mainly their younger) viewers have learned to be accepting of their sexuality by watching Dan & Phil's video's. If it would turn out that there was actually never any romantic relationship and/or they are straight a lot of viewers might feel this as a slap in the face: their role models turn out to be very different from them and from the image they showed online. You might say that it is not Deppy's responsibility to make sure that no one assumes they are non-straight/not in a relationship (although the case where they are straight seems unlikely to me) but I don't think this is fair on the viewers as a large part of the public seems to suspect/believe that there have at least been some romantic feelings at some moment.

[sweetmm]

Has anyone come across any youtubers vlog attending Dr Strange that captured ? Tomska just uploaded his and there is no glimpse of at all

[Galactic-Howell]

Are you saying that when two men look each other in the eyes or touch each other that this means they must be in a romantic relationship?
Because about every ship uses still frames of the proclaimed lovers being intimate with each other. So clearly all ships are real.

You are right, let's not go by heasay. Actually, when you want to know the truth of the matter don't go by hearsay or still frames or tweets or carefully edited video's.
I have no problem admitting that i'm not certain of many of my thoughts about Dan and Phil because i admit that we as an audience simply aren't in a position where we can claim to know things. I think there is a lot open for debate.:

If the vday video didn't exist and the first year of Dan and Phil as documented on social media didn't exist, your argument would have more weight. But those things do exist, which means no one is basing a belief in phan or not simply on still frames or looks.

(Now I'm going back to happy stuff.)

Having just a few pages back seen the dates that Dan and Phil saw each other early on in their relationship helps me in my believe that Phan is a real thing (among many other things).

SquishPhan alittledizzy

Whatever Dan and Phil's relationship is, I do not think that they would queerbait. Do fanservicey things, yes, but never queerbait. They are not stupid, and they know it would make them lose a ton of their fans.

I have /never/ believed that Dan and Phil are gay. They have said that they are not, and we know that before he met Phil, Dan had been in a relationship with a girl. However, I do believe that they could be bi/pan. They have only ever said no to being gay. Personally, the amount of time that they spent together in 2009/10 tells me that there was something going on between them that was more than just platonic. Additionally, the V day vid just heightened this. If it had been planned as a prank but then they decided to not release it as it was going to far, they would have just deleted it then and there.

I feel like we need a drop the mic emoji.

[poweredbywords]

Oh my god I finally have a use for my years of Larry experience, _.
I feel know there’s a big difference between Larry and Phan, mostly because of how fans treat them and partly because of how Larry/Phan react.

There was also the rather significant emphasis on gender roles, where fans created characters (basically OOCs), which we see in the Deppy-shipping community but not near the extent of Larry. If anything Harry was like Phil in the sense that he never talked about it, while Louis’ life was far more affected by it—fans harassed his girlfriend, acted like Larry was the only important role he played in the band, kept harassing him at conventions and stuff about it even when he said he didn’t like it. Louis made it so so SO obvious he didn’t like shipping, and the shipping was the only defining factor (it seemed) in his role in the band. No matter how much fans ship Deppy, people spend way more time talking about them as people and creators rather than parts of a ship.
When Louis and Harry started “acting gay for each other” they hardly knew each other, like phan, but they never really showed any other side to their relationship—even Larry’s “friendship” was basically just acting up their shipping. The front and center part of Deppy’s relationship has always been how their best friends (even in apinof, they were friends, while in 1D video diaries on the xfactor Larry was basically creating their own ship).

Re: queerbaiting.

So I’ve definitely realized everyone seems to have a different opinion on what is “queerbaiting” and not, but I really don’t find what Deppy does as queerbaiting. Supernatural, and even it could be argued The 100, queerbait. Larry queerbaited (that’s probably a discussion for another day on another forum). Queerbaiting is giving the LGBTQ+ community hope for representation of the community, making it so we would all watch their show/give them attention just because we will settle with any shred of representation we can get, and then making it clear that “LOL they’re straight just gay for each other but not actually gay for each other just gay enough to get your attention…but keep watching our show because we will still have two straight guys flirt!”
Deppy honestly plays everything up for the camera, but they’re still best friends, they’ve never denied that. I hate saying fanservice because isn’t that their job? To make their fans happy and create content they like (and content D and P themselves like, but that’s a different topic). We find it funny/cute (some cases annoying) when dan does something like lick the peanutbutter, so is that fanservice? Maybe, but from what we know about him it seems like something he would do anyway, he’s just making it more dramatic for the camera. Is it queerbaiting though? I don’t see it. I bet most people who don’t wear phan goggles didn’t think twice about him doing that except to say “damn this kid is weird,” but that’s why people subscribed, because we find him over the top and weird (there’s probably a better word to describe it, but #yolo).
I don’t even find the fanfic part of the show queerbaiting. The whole point of the show is to represent all the different things—jokes, series, past videos—that compose the relationship between Deppy and their fans. Fanfiction is a part of that, and Dan’s reaction is understandable not because of the queer part of it but because of the “doing this in front of an audience” part. Dan’s said multiple times that he reads fanfiction (so he’s immoral too I guess? If shipping 2 ppl is immoral) and he encourages it

And like a lot of people have said, no matter if D and P are dating or not they still love each other, éros or Philia (this part OT but I just want to say it honestly).


Lol sorry for the overload of poor English words, most of this has been said before prob anyway. I have a midterm in like 10 minutes but I’m doing this instead lol.
In all, dudes their backing video was amazing, I actually laughed out loud, and I never do that.

[dollicious]

after reading the discussion on shipbaiting it’s honestly hard for me to watch this video and be happy trash (as much as i really wanted to be). in general, unless they ever confirm their relationship status(es), which i don’t see happening, then the baiting discussion will continue forever. i don’t have much of anything to add that hasn’t already been discussed to death. to me, they seemed really happy in this video so whether what they were saying was for a reaction from fans or not, i would like to also believe it was genuine.

anyways after seeing some of the dapgo spoilers i'm feeling more so i thought i'd post a few more here so we could talk about how cute those are .

no fringe dan.

cute. idk what they're doing but they could not be physically any closer without touching so .


ummm bear




cute touristy photo .

http://dapgo-spoilers.tumblr.com/tagged/dapgo/

[mio]

Did nobody post Phils cozy ig picture yet? he looks good (despite the deer-in-headlights stare)!

caption: Ready for winter now!

edit: OMG these DAPGO spoilers!! I'm screaming internally (and a bit externally). I love how natural their expressions are, especially Dan looks so good when he just smiles genuinly in pictures instead of doing his doge face I'm

[majitzu]

*ignores the 100 times rehashed topic*

Trying to open a can

Dan is left handed so maybe that's why he couldn't but even Phil looks confused -->conclusion: they are a mess

Phil doesn't understand what that word means and neither do I


fringecringes

Happy first of november

danandphilHQ

[mio]

fringecringes

Now THAT is something straight out of a porn clip.

[Artdefines06]

OMg I'm so sorry lol. I had just come home from a party, I posted that picture at midnight and it seemed like a really good idea at the time, I didn't know I would start a three page war lol.

To be fair, what I meant was not that they were lovers or anything, all I meant is that you don't go out looking for things you already have.

Even if they are just platonic best friends Dan and Phil probably haven't moved out to end shipping because they are still best friends and because of that they want to live together and spend their time together more then they care about internet rumours about them.

I'm sure it does help with filming that they live together and not just for collabs and the gaming channel but for help with behind the scenes stuff on some of their solo videos but still I don't think that's enough of a reason for them to remain in a living together all this time if that wasn't also their preferred living situation on a personal level.

I mean if it was just for work they feel the need to stay together they could easily look for places near each other and have the best of both worlds.
Whether they are romantic or not I think Dan and Phil are where they want to be.

This - this is what I meant. Sorry everyone. The friendship. It was about the friendship.

And yes, I know how easy it is to read into a picture and how it doesnt mean anything - for example, this one could say - Gee it looks like phil can't wait to move out because he is grossed out by Dan.

I get it, I do.

I'm going to go hide in a dark hole now.

[thisliv]

*ignores the 100 times rehashed topic*

Trying to open a can

Dan is left handed so maybe that's why he couldn't but even Phil looks confused -->conclusion: they are a mess

Basically popping in to say that if people think they were bad at using that can opener, (sorry for the personal anecdote) no one should know how long it took the guy I like and me to figure out how to use that type of can opener. They're more difficult than they look, maybe because most openers open cans sideways rather than over top like that one. I felt Dan and Phil's pain so much.

I loved this video so much. I think it's my favorite of the whole year. Every single time they decorate with icing, I cringe in a I love you guys type of way when I see how ugly they are It's very endearing of them.

[gnostic]

I am curious, do people here genuinely not see/notice how defensive / aggressive they get whenever not only people argue anti-phan, but people share their viewing experiences outside of the window of Phan?

I mean, Jesus, this time it was two posts, both of which were in response to specific poster, and one of which was in response to specific poster's specific question, and then it's a total pile up, and then we get blamed of starting the queerbaiting discussion again.

The tone of some arguments here is reminiscent of first year of law school.

[Artdefines06]

I am curious, do people here genuinely not see/notice how defensive / aggressive they get whenever not only people argue anti-phan, but people share their viewing experiences outside of the window of Phan?

I mean, Jesus, this time it was two posts, both of which were in response to specific poster, and one of which was in response to specific poster's specific question, and then it's a total pile up, and then we get blamed of starting the queerbaiting discussion again.

The tone of some arguments here is reminiscent of first year of law school.

OOOH, a post using phan/anti phan arguments next to their logical fallacies! I might work on that in my spare time to make up for my transgression. What thread would it go under?

[eevee]

I am curious, do people here genuinely not see/notice how defensive / aggressive they get whenever not only people argue anti-phan, but people share their viewing experiences outside of the window of Phan?

I mean, Jesus, this time it was two posts, both of which were in response to specific poster, and one of which was in response to specific poster's specific question, and then it's a total pile up, and then we get blamed of starting the queerbaiting discussion again.

I see it the complete other way around. I feel like phan shippers are just trying to live their lives and non-shippers just keep attacking them/us because "shipping real people is wrong" or "we can't assume" or "leave them alone" or whatever it is they feel so offended by that day.

I don't believe I've ever seen a phan shipper attack a non-phan shipper for no reason. However I see non-phan shippers not only attack phan shippers on the regular, but attack their morality and judgement as well.

So therefore I get defensive. I didn't come here to be attacked.

[jesuisunèléve]

I am curious, do people here genuinely not see/notice how defensive / aggressive they get whenever not only people argue anti-phan, but people share their viewing experiences outside of the window of Phan?

I mean, Jesus, this time it was two posts, both of which were in response to specific poster, and one of which was in response to specific poster's specific question, and then it's a total pile up, and then we get blamed of starting the queerbaiting discussion again.

I see it the complete other way around. I feel like phan shippers are just trying to live their lives and non-shippers just keep attacking them/us because "shipping real people is wrong" or "we can't assume" or "leave them alone" or whatever it is they feel so offended by that day.

I don't believe I've ever seen a phan shipper attack a non-phan shipper for no reason. However I see non-phan shippers not only attack phan shippers on the regular, but attack their morality and judgement as well.

So therefore I get defensive. I didn't come here to be attacked.

This has been my experience as well. I have yet to have a "normal" conversation about shipping without it going to personal levels, even if I was simply asking questions for clarification.

We all believe what we believe, and it's not up to us to say what is right or wrong. In the meantime, Dan is still sitting in his onesie, trolling/stalking us all and laughing so hard at our insanity Ribena is shooting out of his nose.

Acutally, my opinion is below...

Personally? Until someone flat out asks Dan about what he thinks about being accused of queer/ship baiting I am not going to worry about it. Because if there really was an issue with baiting, it would be a more mainstream media conversation.

[gnostic]

I am curious, do people here genuinely not see/notice how defensive / aggressive they get whenever not only people argue anti-phan, but people share their viewing experiences outside of the window of Phan?

I mean, Jesus, this time it was two posts, both of which were in response to specific poster, and one of which was in response to specific poster's specific question, and then it's a total pile up, and then we get blamed of starting the queerbaiting discussion again.

I see it the complete other way around. I feel like phan shippers are just trying to live their lives and non-shippers just keep attacking them/us because "shipping real people is wrong" or "we can't assume" or "leave them alone" or whatever it is they feel so offended by that day.

I don't believe I've ever seen a phan shipper attack a non-phan shipper for no reason. However I see non-phan shippers not only attack phan shippers on the regular, but attack their morality and judgement as well.

So therefore I get defensive. I didn't come here to be attacked.

1) a person posts a photo referring to anti phan shipper

2) several other persons support them in that

3) one of the anti phan shippers (not angry antis, mind you, but simply someone who doesn't believe in phan) posts a though out, reasoned argument to the statement made in the original post. Maybe it was a topic that was already hashed to death, but it was discussion

4) a pro-phan person asks a question of anti phan person, which I and much later the previous anti phan person *answer*

5) a bunch of people pile up on us for bringing up the queerbaiting discussion and daring doubt phan, many using passive aggressive / inflammatory language.

Now tell me again, how was all of this antis' fault?

[eevee]

1) a person posts a photo referring to anti phan shipper

2) several other persons support them in that

3) one of the anti phan shippers (not angry antis, mind you, but simply someone who doesn't believe in phan) posts a though out, reasoned argument to the statement made in the original post. Maybe it was a topic that was already hashed to death, but it was discussion

4) a pro-phan person asks a question of anti phan person, which I and much later the previous anti phan person *answer*

5) a bunch of people pile up on us for bringing up the queerbaiting discussion and daring doubt phan, many using passive aggressive / inflammatory language.

Now tell me again, how was all of this antis' fault?

I'd love to tell you again if you would be specific and use examples rather than abstract things that may or may not have happened. For example, I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you should use quotes or screenshots for clarity.

[gnostic]

1) a person posts a photo referring to anti phan shipper

2) several other persons support them in that

3) one of the anti phan shippers (not angry antis, mind you, but simply someone who doesn't believe in phan) posts a though out, reasoned argument to the statement made in the original post. Maybe it was a topic that was already hashed to death, but it was discussion

4) a pro-phan person asks a question of anti phan person, which I and much later the previous anti phan person *answer*

5) a bunch of people pile up on us for bringing up the queerbaiting discussion and daring doubt phan, many using passive aggressive / inflammatory language.

Now tell me again, how was all of this antis' fault?

I'd love to tell you again if you would be specific and use examples rather than abstract things that may or may not have happened. For example, I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you should use quotes or screenshots for clarity.

I am talking about discussion that occurred in the last two pages, but since in my posting history here i've known you to be very polite, I will happily do just that and under spoiler not to derail the free discussion* further.

Let me get home from court and I will get back to you.

*terms and condition on allowed topics apply

[nephilimcat]

Why do we have to discuss who's fault it was? It was just a picture that wasn't even meant to attack non-phan shippers but to say that they don't seem like they want to move apart from each other. Which also includes platonic Phan. And suddenly people started to accuse Deppy of queerbaiting and shippers of being immoral. It just happened, it's nobody's "fault". People shared their opinions, people reacted to it - that's how a forum works. Instead of blaming "the antis" or "the shippers" we could either just continue discussing the topic and stay respectful or move on and wait for the next time the topic inevitably gets brought up again.

[PhansThrowPillows]

I feel like I've stepped on shit while opening a can of worms.

I'll just answer to gnostic and Stakhanov under the spoiler

gnostic I can kinda see where you're coming from being that I'm a very sceptical person and I can easily see how things are just products to be sold and marketed but I just don't feel like that's all there is to deppy, at least for me, so I guess in this case I'm more interested in the other aspects than just their marketability.


Stakhanov Hi!
It seems that we disagree on a few basic principals which makes it hard for me to agree with you (''I don't think it's horribly wrong to play up being gay even if you're not'') and I also do see a majour problem if someone were to use that kind of behaviour to get money. But by the looks of it no-one here really wants to continue down this avenue so let's just agree to disagree, eh?

''If you agree that behavior and sexual orientation are separate things and that a guy shouldn't act a certain stereotype 'manly' way around other people I gotta ask what you think is really wrong with them pretending to be a gay couple. Isn't it nice that two men can just show affection as if they were a couple even if they aren't? If they actually are straight and just really close friends, you can also see it in a positive light and say they are really destroying gender roles. I see some validity in that point of view too.''

Oh my world, there's so much to discuss here. Unfortunately though my eyes are fucking me over at the moment so I'll just quickly answer that I don't think that there's anything wrong with affection between two men, and in fact it should be celebrated. I also think that not all affection is inherently romantic, even between deppy. But it's not that simple imo, if two straight dudes were to ''act romantic and couply'' it would feel hollow to me because if someone were to react negatively they could just stop whenever they pleased or ''take it back''. Something that genuinely queer folk can't do. Affection, ''softness'', caring and compassion are all more than welcomed between men but I guess the romantic aspect of it isn't something that should imo be played with, definitely not for money anyway, because imo it trivialises real life struggles of queer people who can't necessarily be open about it without consequences. There's more points on this to be made but again my eyes.
I could also talk about this strong notion of ''don't assume anything if the person hasn't explicitly stated what their sexuality is'' and how that erases many queer facets and upholds the closet in the society but like I said ''my eyes!'' literally, lol.


Anywhoo, thanks for your replies!

Still loving the baking video and can't wait for Dan's ls!