Dan & Phil Part 35: knock knock, who’s there, i hate you

[Sakura Selfie]

[offtopic]Does anyone else ever wonder if the fan videos hurt rewatch stats and if that's part of the reason the views are dropping a bit (as well as all the YouTube drama stuff)? I've noticed loads of different crack type vids lately that are literally just cut and pastes of really big chunks of the videos without any funny stuff thrown in, like I can appreciate the ones that are short snippets cut with bits of song or the ones with text on etc like silly videos but there seems to be a lot lately that's literally just highlights of the vids which makes me wonder if that means their views are lower because fans who would normally rewatch the vid can get a highlight vid so to speak? There's literally seemingly loads that have 50k+ views that pop up in my suggested vids, there's PINOF with the bloopers added back in that's got nearly 90k views in my suggested now and that's what made me think of it.[/offtopic]

[malday]

Did Phil have any other job besides youtube, before the radio show? was youtube his only source of income?

But for fun, I did some twitter searching for him mentioning work...

(Screencaps, not direct links, because even though these are innocuous I don't want people to go liking or retweeting things and Phil start deleting.)

He obviously did at least one thing in 2007:


He was feeling inspired in March of 2009:


And then feeling a little pressure by June:


Mentioning his work experience at a vet:


He had some kind of job in December 2009, presumably a one-off:


By February of 2010...


So no, I don't really think he had any 'real' jobs besides youtube. He might have been paid for editing work, though.

Thank you!
Those are real jobs in my book.


lol hope this image is real.

[Catallena]

talking about slightly ot things: i recently rewatched some of dan's videos and actually bothered to read the descriptions and wow i didn't realize before the shipping vid's still reads something along the lines of "it was so hard to make this relatable because almost all ships are gay haha". i'm aware this doesn't account for how dan is today at all and it's not a Huge Deal but it still was a bit disheartening to read - not because i want to make any conclusions about his sexuality or anything, but because it's such an insensitive thing to say i kind of hope he goes one a spree some day and deletes descriptions like these.

It'll happen on the day Dan can finally be arsed to change to thumbnail for I'll Go Down With This Ship. I get why he doesn't to take the video offline because of how significant it was in the big subscriber boom of 2012 but at least spare me from seeing that face whenever YouTube recommends it to me dude

D&P had a family meeting.

lol hope this image is real.

It's a BTS pic from Faintheart.

[secretagentphan]

I do wonder what they would be doing for work if youtube hadn't worked out. I think it's safe to say Dan probably wouldn't be working retail if he could avoid it. Not that I blame him, it's a special circle of hell sometimes and I don't miss it.

Im honestly so glad that Dan has youtube because based on stories he's told he seems like one of those people who just isn't meant for a conventional job

[alittledizzy]

Those are real jobs in my book.

Maybe I should have used a better word than 'real' - what I mean is that none were full time or long term and none of them provided an income Phil would have been living off of.

[mez29]

Also I TOTALLY understand why Dan talks down to his fan base considering the chat but it really bugs me when he acts like he's more cultured in music because one of the only things I pride myself in is my knowledge of music and music history. I WOULD KICK DAN'S ASS AT MUSIC KNOWLEDGE lol. Plus people thinking that others can't understand their music is but whatever I love you anyways Dan lol

could you give an example of what you're thinking about? i'm genuinely interested because i only ever get the impression that he enjoys to recommend music he's been listening too, plus it seems to be mostly in response to the chat asking for recommendations. i suppose he does take a certain pride in his taste in music, but it personally never rubbed me in the wrong way, so i'd like to understand where you're coming from.

I've noticed it when he talks about classical music in particular, he mentioned a Rachmaninov or Chopin prelude in a liveshow once and said something like "none of you will care about this" or "none of you will appreciate this" (I have no idea what his exact words were but definitely something in that vein).

[melon lord]

I'm sorry but like people quoted the post with Dan's erotic gum scraping tweet but literally nobody acknowledged it or commented on it and it made me feel like I'm actually imagining it and it's maybe not real and I'm losing my marbles from deppy drought

[000dia000]

I'm sorry but like people quoted the post with Dan's erotic gum scraping tweet but literally nobody acknowledged it or commented on it and it made me feel like I'm actually imagining it and it's maybe not real and I'm losing my marbles from deppy drought

We have become desensitized to Dan's antics.

[flarequake]

I'm sorry but like people quoted the post with Dan's erotic gum scraping tweet but literally nobody acknowledged it or commented on it and it made me feel like I'm actually imagining it and it's maybe not real and I'm losing my marbles from deppy drought

We have become desensitized to Dan's antics.

I can barely take his depressing tweets seriously anymore. I mean, don't want him to feel empty and alone, but I get the vibe he's just putting it on.

Phil also worked at WHSmith, the stationery stop, for a while until he quit when a woman threw a chocolate orange at his head (those are dense balls, it would have hurt).

[lurkin]

I'm sorry but like people quoted the post with Dan's erotic gum scraping tweet but literally nobody acknowledged it or commented on it and it made me feel like I'm actually imagining it and it's maybe not real and I'm losing my marbles from deppy drought

We have become desensitized to Dan's antics.

I can barely take his depressing tweets seriously anymore. I mean, don't want him to feel empty and alone, but I get the vibe he's just putting it on.

Phil also worked at WHSmith, the stationery stop, for a while until he quit when a woman threw a chocolate orange at his head (those are dense balls, it would have hurt).

I love Dan and his personality so much; I wouldn't be here if I didnt, but honestly his whole dark aesthetic "like my soul" existentialism brand or whatever he's been pushing really hard lately is driving me nuts.

[anathema]

Slighty OT but I just watched a playlist where Dan and Phil deny phan in 2012 and it's made me question everything.

is it your first time seeing anti-phan "proof"? i kinda think it's recommended to watch/read all kinds of "evidence" (the one that points to them being together and the one that shows the opposite) before making up your mind on what you want to believe. (lol this sounds like a such a srs bsns).

Questioning is probably a good thing as well, since they're real people. Being convinced of them being one way or the other (and being very invested in that) is only going to make you feel disappointed or sad in the end I think

I've seen a lot of people (not necessarily people here, just in the phandom in general) who are so convinced they're together it's worrying. Like, I think they're most likely together, but I always remind myself every once in a while that I don't for sure know and their current relationship status could be anything. As much as I like to think they're dating, there's a chance they aren't. And with some people, they're so convinced they are together that, if Dan or Phil ever did come out with saying "hey, I'm dating someone else" they would be in such denial that they would make up insane theories about how said someone else is a beard. It's good to have a refresher that we don't know nearly as much as we think about D&P's personal lives. (Again, I'm not really talking about anyone on this site, more fans on other sites. Just wanted to make sure that's clear so no one feels like I'm singling them out or anything, because I have a tendency to come across wrongly )

Not phil, but here's my fave Dan sneezes

How could someone disrespect A-ha like this

D&P had a family meeting.

[lurker]

do you mean his video i will go down with this ship? i just checked the description, and i don't see anything like that in it. or were you meaning a different one?

ugh, i went back to check - it's the "fandoms" one, i got that mixed up. "it's hard to make a video about fandoms relatable when pretty much all the ships are gay." i mean, the fact that it reads "dantesers 4 lyfe" after that probably makes it a bit easier to accept as a relict of a time gone by but still

I respect when people acknowledge (rather than just erase) that they've said ~problematic~ things in the past, especially when they've clearly made an effort to learn from their mistakes.

fully agreed with that! with respect to the topic, i appreciated a lot that dan didn't simply delete the "men vs. women" video but rather privated it and changed the description.

i know i was far from perfect in my teenage/uni years, and i can't imagine that being out there for everyone to judge like it is for him.

agreed -- i certainly don't hold things like these against him today. he might not even be aware that this particular description is still out there as it is. i was just thinking, if this was the first video of his i had stumbled upon and read it, i would have had a quite different first impression of him.

certain no homo comments honestly break my phan goggles. Like some of the "lol gay" jokes him and Phil used to make sound like such straight boy jokes that i find it hard to believe they were more than friends?

i genuinely don't think it's able to draw any conclusion from these comments -- they were almost certainly a defense mechanism, be it against being reduced to a ship or a label or against being involuntarily outed. seing that they eventually stopped with them, they're not significant in the long run.

It'll happen on the day Dan can finally be arsed to change to thumbnail for I'll Go Down With This Ship. I get why he doesn't to take the video offline because of how significant it was in the big subscriber boom of 2012 but at least spare me from seeing that face whenever YouTube recommends it to me dude

wait, what about the video? i don't remember anything particular about it.

Honestly I think it's more a me issue than a Dan issue. He's probably just annoyed by the people constantly wanting to talk about top and stuff and I get that, but idk the assumption annoys me even if it's not specifically about me.

As a teenage girl people are constantly not taking my music recommendations which is so frustrating because I am so passionate about music and like all kinds both old and new. But saying stuff like making fun of the person who mentioned "creep" as their favorite radiohead song just kind of irritates me. Like at the same time I totally understand that radiohead is his favorite band so it's probably frustrating since they are so much more than that one song (I love ok computer as much as the next guy but creep still rules even though it's the breakthrough single) but why couldn't he recomend good albums to get into instead?

Also saying that modern music is the best time for music because it just gets more advanced annoyed me? Like I'm not one of those people who only likes the classics and shits on new music because that's annoying, but Dan's doing the exact same thing but reversed? If you like new music that's cool but I think it's important to know how the genres came to be and the trailblazers of certain genres. The Beatles aren't the only band to listen to before the 90's, there's plenty of music that's aged so much better! Sorry this got rant-y lol

I've noticed it when he talks about classical music in particular, he mentioned a Rachmaninov or Chopin prelude in a liveshow once and said something like "none of you will care about this" or "none of you will appreciate this" (I have no idea what his exact words were but definitely something in that vein).

i honestly didn't notice that before and i suppose it might be a matter of personality / perception, but i do understand where your coming from or why that might rub someone the wrong way.

this was a very long post with all the quotes i'm sorry.

[SquishPhan]

I'm sorry but like people quoted the post with Dan's erotic gum scraping tweet but literally nobody acknowledged it or commented on it and it made me feel like I'm actually imagining it and it's maybe not real and I'm losing my marbles from deppy drought

We have become desensitized to Dan's antics.

I can barely take his depressing tweets seriously anymore. I mean, don't want him to feel empty and alone, but I get the vibe he's just putting it on.

I love Dan and his personality so much; I wouldn't be here if I didnt, but honestly his whole dark aesthetic "like my soul" existentialism brand or whatever he's been pushing really hard lately is driving me nuts.

I really agree with this. I feel like AP is doing some rebranding, but it seems clear that Dan is sticking with this brand/persona, and it does make me want to roll my eyes at times.

[secretagentphan]

I'm sorry but like people quoted the post with Dan's erotic gum scraping tweet but literally nobody acknowledged it or commented on it and it made me feel like I'm actually imagining it and it's maybe not real and I'm losing my marbles from deppy drought

We have become desensitized to Dan's antics.

I can barely take his depressing tweets seriously anymore. I mean, don't want him to feel empty and alone, but I get the vibe he's just putting it on.

Phil also worked at WHSmith, the stationery stop, for a while until he quit when a woman threw a chocolate orange at his head (those are dense balls, it would have hurt).

I love Dan and his personality so much; I wouldn't be here if I didnt, but honestly his whole dark aesthetic "like my soul" existentialism brand or whatever he's been pushing really hard lately is driving me nuts.

yeah its getting a little much honestly, especially in contrast to how awesome Phil's "rebranding" has been. I don't think it's ALL fake because as someone who is very politically correct, I'd like to think Dan knows better than to make that many jokes about depression just to relate more to his audience. I know he never *explicitly* says depression but those tweets say things that certainly suggest it. I don't want to assume that he doesn't actually feel that way because to some extent he probably does and I don't want to accuse someone of "faking" that I don't know personally. But I do think lately it's got less genuine and more campy which is slightly getting on my nerves. To be fair though he does seem a little on edge lately so maybe he's just being genuinely angsty.
Edit: I realize this kind of sounds like I'm saying Dan is depressed which I'm not. I'm just saying that if he's completely doing it for brand's sake than that's not okay because people really struggle with that

[lurkin]

I'm sorry but like people quoted the post with Dan's erotic gum scraping tweet but literally nobody acknowledged it or commented on it and it made me feel like I'm actually imagining it and it's maybe not real and I'm losing my marbles from deppy drought

We have become desensitized to Dan's antics.

I can barely take his depressing tweets seriously anymore. I mean, don't want him to feel empty and alone, but I get the vibe he's just putting it on.

Phil also worked at WHSmith, the stationery stop, for a while until he quit when a woman threw a chocolate orange at his head (those are dense balls, it would have hurt).

I love Dan and his personality so much; I wouldn't be here if I didnt, but honestly his whole dark aesthetic "like my soul" existentialism brand or whatever he's been pushing really hard lately is driving me nuts.

yeah its getting a little much honestly, especially in contrast to how awesome Phil's "rebranding" has been. I don't think it's ALL fake because as someone who is very politically correct, I'd like to think Dan knows better than to make that many jokes about depression just to relate more to his audience. I know he never *explicitly* says depression but those tweets say things that certainly suggest it. I don't want to assume that he doesn't actually feel that way because to some extent he probably does and I don't want to accuse someone of "faking" that I don't know personally. But I do think lately it's got less genuine and more campy which is slightly getting on my nerves. To be fair though he does seem a little on edge lately so maybe he's just being genuinely angsty.

It's really weird just in contrast with Phil's "rebranding" and it feels like he's just amplifying his past brand and trying a little too hard to be "relatable". I wouldn't even mind it that much if every time he saw something black he didn't make a "my soul" comment. And of course, I don't know what he's going through mental health-wise, so I don't wanna make any assumptions as to whether his "depression aesthetic" is warranted or not. It all just seems like too much, and I'd rather see him branch out into more of a well rounded personality on the internet. I find it hard to believe that he is even slightly this way in real life.

At least he isn't constantly pulling existential crisis thing all the time anymore.

I hadn't even thought about his mood lately, but I agree that he's been a little on edge. Especially in the liveshows.

[ismelindsey]

Anyone else get super pissed how Dan and Phil are friends with a racist, albiest who makes rape jokes aka Pewdiepie?

[Catallena]

It'll happen on the day Dan can finally be arsed to change to thumbnail for I'll Go Down With This Ship. I get why he doesn't to take the video offline because of how significant it was in the big subscriber boom of 2012 but at least spare me from seeing that face whenever YouTube recommends it to me dude

wait, what about the video? i don't remember anything particular about it.

It stars known sexual abuser nerimon/Alex Day. The video was obviously filmed loooong before his ass got exposed, but the video gets recommended to me whenever I go on a rewatch spree (I always skip it which massively confuses YouTube so they keep trying) and I throw up a little every time I see the thumbnail.

And I say I get why Dan didn't delete/private/unlist it, but on the other hand... Charlie pulled so many old successful videos with Alex in them from his channel (at least all in which he was heavily featured) sooooo

[lurkin]

It'll happen on the day Dan can finally be arsed to change to thumbnail for I'll Go Down With This Ship. I get why he doesn't to take the video offline because of how significant it was in the big subscriber boom of 2012 but at least spare me from seeing that face whenever YouTube recommends it to me dude

wait, what about the video? i don't remember anything particular about it.

It stars known sexual abuser nerimon/Alex Day. The video was obviously filmed loooong before his ass got exposed, but the video gets recommended to me whenever I go on a rewatch spree (I always skip it which massively confuses YouTube so they keep trying) and I throw up a little every time I see the thumbnail.



And I say I get why Dan didn't delete/private/unlist it, but on the other hand... Charlie pulled so many old successful videos with Alex in them from his channel (at least all in which he was heavily featured) sooooo

Considering both Dan and Phil deleted other videos off their channels with Day in it, I wonder why he didn't bother with this one. I guess it was a huge contribution to his popularity, but still. I always avoid it if I'm rewatching, too.

[random]

Anyone else get super pissed how Dan and Phil are friends with a racist, albiest who makes rape jokes aka Pewdiepie?

Offtopic? : Yeah, it has kind of bothered me. I am sure that Dan, in particular, isn't sexist and tries not be ableist, so somehow I feel that he likes Felix a lot because he Dan's senpei??? Idk how to say this well, maybe I don't understand how everyone gives pewdiepie a free pass, but I have heard most people saying he's actually nice. Doesn't Dan watch h3h3 too? I have heard that they have 'edgy' jokes or whatever (code for relying on offensive humor because they aren't that funny. Dan and Phil can be friends without whoever they want, of course. But yeah I side eye them a little bit.

[000dia000]

Anyone else get super pissed how Dan and Phil are friends with a racist, albiest who makes rape jokes aka Pewdiepie?

Offtopic? : Yeah, it has kind of bothered me. I am sure that Dan, in particular, isn't sexist and tries not be ableist, so somehow I feel that he likes Felix a lot because he Dan's senpei??? Idk how to say this well, maybe I don't understand how everyone gives pewdiepie a free pass, but I have heard most people saying he's actually nice. Doesn't Dan watch h3h3 too? I have heard that they have 'edgy' jokes or whatever (code for relying on offensive humor because they aren't that funny. Dan and Phil can be friends without whoever they want, of course. But yeah I side eye them a little bit.

The problem I kind of have with people nowadays is that nowadays it's trendy to make fun of anything PC and have reduced it to something trivial and is constantly ridiculed. While PC culture has been dominant on the internet (and another conversation it itself), those who oppose it have sort of made it cool to go backwards again and make ridiculous slanders, but "it's okay, he doesn't mean it, they're still a nice person, they're cool." Sure, they're nice people, whatever, but they remind me of kids smoking to look cool-they look edgy now but in 10 years are they going to regret amassing a following of cancerous sheep? Felix is not even being original, he's just one of the masses. I'm kind of sick of this trend, it's become boring. I feel like I'm looking at children, when will people move on from behaving this way and actually make good content?

[fancybum]

Hey wait why didn't this tweet kick off a 3 page long debate over #phandivorced. He said he's sad and alone which means he's single and longing to find true love in 2017. Meanwhile Phil's itching to get a dog and Dan's the one standing in the way because he doesn't trust Phil to take care of it properly ("do you trust this guy with a dog" "I'd water my dog") and doesn't want to get saddled with the responsibility instead.

So the only conclusion I can come to is their living arrangement is holding them both back from the things they really want and are ready for in their lives. Hopefully all this private turmoil doesn't interrupt their regular uploading schedule, that'd be a shame.

[oqua]

[offtopic]Did we ever fully work out "THE RULES" from earlier in the year? I can't remember... But it seems like a good time to drag it back as "we're" on a roll...! [/offtopic]

No, we never did figure out what The Rules were!

Here's a summary kind of post in case anyone feels up for the challenge!

Background:

In several videos, a list titled "THE RULES" can be seen in the background. Every time we've seen them, they're by that keyboard. As far as I know, they appear four times:

• Manchester DITL
• Dan's video about getting fired
• Two vyous where Dan plays the keyboard

The clearest shot is from the Manchester DITL. Here's the basic scene

Closeup of The Rules:



We're fairly certain of the first three rules:

• THE RULES
  [?]
  
  1. Weekdays bed before 2am
      don't get up later than 10.30am
  2. Weekdays productive until 5pm
  3. no breaks until the weekend
  4. [?]
  5. [?]
  6. [?]
  
      Dan Howell               PLester

And here are some possibilities we considered for the rest (in purple):



Assortment of closeup shots of the rules:

Trashqueen's edit:

ohhhh i'm pretty sure that does say 'go to radio 1'
i think the word before the parenthesis might be sunday?

also no idea if this makes it better or worse but i played around w photoshop for a bit and got this

maybe comparing both versions might help idk

Posts about Dan’s handwriting:

(much like the ancient temple boss in FFVII)


(like the ministry of magic)

Note that he does his f's weird. This says "far":

From the video Gnosia posted:

i think point 5 finishes by "to(?) closet and laundry"
point 6 first line seems to finish by "vs da life" or at least last word is "life" I think

I swear #5 looks like it ends with Saturday? I do think laundry could appear in there at least once, maybe twice.

And for closet...I like it, but I don't think the tall thing at the end is a t. His t's tend to be the same height as his other letters, not taller. (example: )

But it might say "closet)" or "closet]"? Or maybe "close)"? ("close" example: ) Or I also like "is closed"

Could Rule 5 start with "Being"?

For the first line of Rule 6, I don't think it ends with "life." He does his f's really weird. They look like loopy j's. Here are examples of him writing "life":


I think it looks like it says "to do later" maybe? The last word seems kind of distorted. Or bluebox-away's suggestion of "to do b/c" is interesting.

Also, I like the idea that he's using slashes sometimes. He does seem to like slashes:

Post about possible parentheses:

Also, for the first line of Rule 5: I think that in the picture below, it's quite clear that parentheses are involved?



"______ ________ ___ _______y (_____y to close)" ??

Examples of Dan's signature:

Anyone have any new insights to offer?

[confusedpanda]

Hey wait why didn't this tweet kick off a 3 page long debate over #phandivorced. He said he's sad and alone which means he's single and longing to find true love in 2017. Meanwhile Phil's itching to get a dog and Dan's the one standing in the way because he doesn't trust Phil to take care of it properly ("do you trust this guy with a dog" "I'd water my dog") and doesn't want to get saddled with the responsibility instead.

So the only conclusion I can come to is their living arrangement is holding them both back from the things they really want and are ready for in their lives. Hopefully all this private turmoil doesn't interrupt their regular uploading schedule, that'd be a shame.

I don't think the tweet is that big a deal or even means any of that to begin with? It ties in more with Dans existential branding, which is probably why no one started anything on it.
Also, why does feeling alone and sad have to equal single and wanting someone? A person could still feel alone and sad internally even though they could possible be with someone.
I wouldn't jump to phan divorce just because Dan made a "relatable" metaphor of how someone could relate to a tree being taken down. I don't know, I just can't see your point here.

[lurkin]

So I looked into The Rules thing. Did a lot of digging. Kinda feel gross because I haven't done this much digging since 2012.

So what I can gather by background information and looking at Dan's videos that include the piano in the shot, The Rules were written sometime in mid-February 2012? In Narcoleptic Laptop, posted in the beginning of February 2012, the only things on the keyboard in the shot are what seem to be sheets of music. However, in How I Got Fired, posted in late February, The Rules are there. They could've been written before then, but I don't really think that Dan suddenly got the urge to display them in a prominent place long after they had been written, so I think it's safe to assume that they were written sometime in mid-February 2012.

It's also important to note that the SAP started up for season 2 Februrary 2012, so maybe SAP has something to do with it? It's worth looking into at least. That's a group (and contracted) project that would warrant group productivity rules. Deadlines to meet, research to do, videos to edit, expectations to meet from the previous season, etc. All of that on top of their personal channels. Maybe that's the big push for The Rules?

Looking at Dan's twitter from January 1st, 2012 to March 1st, 2012, he hadn't posted a lot. Maybe he was in a really bad productivity slump which prompted The Rules? Maybe tweets from this time got lost in the Big Delete? Idk. His tumblr from that time doesn't reveal much, either.

Phil at the time was pretty active on twitter. A lot of his tweets during the entirety of February are about the SAP, one tweet he mentions being super productive and filming parts for THREE VIDEOS that day.

Also this...

Worthy of creating a bedtime rule?

Anyway. Let me know what you think. Honestly idk if I'm stretching the analysis at this point.

[oqua]

Here are the dates of the videos where THE RULES appear:

Vyou "piano fetish": 29 January 2012
Vyou "favorite song on piano": 31 January 2012
How I Got Fired: 29 February 2012
Manchester DITL: 17 March 2012

So they had to have been written by late January or earlier.

I like the idea that they're connected to SAP in some way.