Dan & Phil Part 68: The Quiffening

[fancybum]

Just to be a buzzkill because I can’t help myself: maybe he would hypothetically like to like some nice art without also appearing to endorse whatever the artist chose as a caption and I’m not sure that justifies mocking?

I think he probably would like to like some nice art, but I also think the endorsement factor is unavoidable. There is... no lack of other art, you know? There's no lack of people posting and tagging Dan in very platonically-acceptable art. And I think Dan is self aware enough to absolutely understand that people look at what he likes, and draw conclusions from it and that if he wants to correct those conclusions people draw he can and will do that. So I am lightly mocking but I'm doing so as a form of self-protection and laying the groundwork for whatever distancing Dan inevitably will do, so that I don't find myself falling into too much of a comfort zone that it's jarring for him to shake me out of.

Ok but that’s basically saying he shouldn’t like art in the first place if he doesn’t want people to look into the caption. “There’s no shortage of art” sure, but why should he feel like he has to ignore specific art he likes just because the artist didn’t steer away from ~questionable captions? That would just be yet another thing people would call “no homo”ing, ignoring great art based on a word in a caption (in this case: “boyfriends”). So it’s always just lose-lose? Him being perfectly comfortable with everybody thinking of him and Phil as boyfriends (and ever appearing to genuinely agree) probably isn’t a zone of comfort that will be realistic anytime soon, if ever, and I think it’s weird to put the disappointment or whatever about that on him all the time. Like why is making fun of somebody else being entirely consistent about their personal limits in the face of other people’s wants/expectations a form of self-preservation? (I was trying to word that as not-harshly as possible because I’m not mad about it, but it’s just frustrating because as much of a pattern as it seems of Dan’s to do one step forward, one step back all the time, the audience is as much of a part of it and his actions aren’t exactly happening in a vacuum. But the whole thing with his last video and stuff like this just kind of comes off like there’s a lack of empathy in acknowledging or accepting why/how he does certain things because they don’t line up with what people want him to do, for their own benefit, if any of that makes sense).

[autumnhearth]

Thanks the pain from it was keeping me up at night so I had a lot of small-hours time to think (which is oddly fine by me because I'm a night owl and I'm at my most productive between 11pm and 2am)

I find it difficult to separate out my socialisation from what I actually believe. I guess what I mean is that my perception of Dans specific sexual preferences have changed for the reasons you have highlighted, because I am now struggling to recall the last time he mentioned being attracted to a female. Which I've been socialised into seeing as being gay. Even though, with my sociology hat on, I realise is an extremely reductionist and essentialist view and that just because someone is mentioning one thing a lot atm, that doesn't negate everything that went before. I think right now he's more free and I should celebrate that, because his attitude toward his sexuality is more reflective of my actual belief. Also I am aware that this is none of my business because I'm not currently, and never will be, having sex with Dan so it will literally never affect me, but I find his development captivating. I think my perception of their sexualities changing is to do with this captivation, and even though I know my previous post was contradictory, I do ultimately believe that labels are unnecessary and I try and embody that in my everyday life.

Also - I cant stop thinking about WHY THE FUCK Delia Smith was part of Dans old branding? Like Delia Smith is amazing and her christmas cake recipe is awesome, and my mum refers to her Delia cookbook as 'the Gospel according to Delia' but why the fuck was it a key part of his branding? What the fuck was going through his head

edit: that liked fan art is a perfect accompaniment to this post

Dan and Phil not having mentioned female attraction in ages is something that I happened to discuss with @George yesterday (in private). A while ago when this topic last came up, she brought up an interesting point that them not mentioning female attraction anymore probably isn't about them not experiencing it but instead about them applying basic media training principles and not mentioning what kind of women they find attractive to their largely young female audience who potentially would feel pressured to look like that.

@alien: My intention was to let people who've only recently joined the gang know that this is something that has been discussed before in great detail. I obviously can't tell anyone not to talk about it.

sparkle I totally get that and was not trying to call you out or criticize, I do it too and just wanted to muse about it

somethingsketchy I definitely think that’s a factor and thought about working it into my post, but decided to keep it simple. And I absolutely appreciate the shift that happened over the years with that. It’s much more comfortable.

Wait are you implying that George is a made up name?

[nephilimcat]

Also, like… people seem to assume Dan and Phil are under some insane pressure because they can’t come out or what and should just “get it over with” but… some people don’t feel the need to come out at all and they both strike me as such people. Please consider that maybe they’re happy without ever telling us about their relationship status because not all queer people actually feel the need to tell the world “HELLO I’M QUEER AND THIS IS MY BOYFRIEND”. It’s a shame that media makes it seem like coming out is such a big stepping stone to happiness for queer people when for many queer people it’s literally not important at all because, newsflash, our happiness doesn't depend on what other people think about us. (Obviously coming out and being accepted is super important for some people but it's just not true for everyone.)

Honestly. I believe they are on a constant path to living their truth, as Dan Howell himself would say, while treasuring their privacy. And maybe that means there are things they aren't comfortable with sharing and maybe never will be and that's okay. It doesn't have to stem from fear or pressure or even have to have anything to do with them being queer but it could just be the need for privacy they would also have as a straight male/female duo. There are online personalities nobody knows much about, that keep their private lives secret, some even their whole identities. I think Dan and Phil never expected to blow up and thus didn't have the chance to keep some things private they somewhat naively shared so they treasure the bit of privacy they still have and are very careful not to share too much in order to keep some things to themselves. They seem so much happier the more time passes and I think it's because they've (mostly) found a balance between being honest and being private individuals. So if they never ever call themselves boyfriends and never ever slap a label on themselves, it really doesn't have to be as deep as some people make it out to be

[sparkle]

sparkle I totally get that and was not trying to call you out or criticize, I do it too and just wanted to muse about it

it's cool - I figured as much

Plus I'm loving the idea of a gay renaissance. Yes Dan. Same

[alittledizzy]

Just to be a buzzkill because I can’t help myself: maybe he would hypothetically like to like some nice art without also appearing to endorse whatever the artist chose as a caption and I’m not sure that justifies mocking?

I think he probably would like to like some nice art, but I also think the endorsement factor is unavoidable. There is... no lack of other art, you know? There's no lack of people posting and tagging Dan in very platonically-acceptable art. And I think Dan is self aware enough to absolutely understand that people look at what he likes, and draw conclusions from it and that if he wants to correct those conclusions people draw he can and will do that. So I am lightly mocking but I'm doing so as a form of self-protection and laying the groundwork for whatever distancing Dan inevitably will do, so that I don't find myself falling into too much of a comfort zone that it's jarring for him to shake me out of.

Ok but that’s basically saying he shouldn’t like art in the first place if he doesn’t want people to look into the caption. “There’s no shortage of art” sure, but why should he feel like he has to ignore specific art he likes just because the artist didn’t steer away from ~questionable captions? That would just be yet another thing people would call “no homo”ing, ignoring great art based on a word in a caption (in this case: “boyfriends”). So it’s always just lose-lose? Him being perfectly comfortable with everybody thinking of him and Phil as boyfriends (and ever appearing to genuinely agree) probably isn’t a zone of comfort that will be realistic anytime soon, if ever, and I think it’s weird to put the disappointment or whatever about that on him all the time. Like why is making fun of somebody else being entirely consistent about their personal limits in the face of other people’s wants/expectations a form of self-preservation? (I was trying to word that as not-harshly as possible because I’m not mad about it, but it’s just frustrating because as much of a pattern as it seems of Dan’s to do one step forward, one step back all the time, the audience is as much of a part of it and his actions aren’t exactly happening in a vacuum. But the whole thing with his last video and stuff like this just kind of comes off like there’s a lack of empathy in acknowledging or accepting why/how he does certain things because they don’t line up with what people want him to do, for their own benefit, if any of that makes sense).

It's less that I'm saying he has to ignore art because of the caption and more that I'm saying that I give him enough credit to understand the reality of the effect his actions have on his audience, and I as part of that audience am also giving myself enough credit t be aware that when Dan does something understanding the implications and later on decides he doesn't like those implications after all that he will let us know.

I definitely know I do have an emotional reaction to seeing Dan like something that implies they are together, I can't get around that but I can immediately check myself (self-preservation) and remind myself that what I want to assume it means may not be what it means, and Dan isn't always the most patient in conveying that correction to us. Sometimes the sucky part of an emotional reaction to something is that you get excited over a thing and then get your bubble burst. You can't really rationally think your way out of those moments when it comes to emotion, but you can when it comes to action. That's why I'm talking about these things here and not @ mentioning him.

I don't lack empathy for Dan. I have a ton of empathy for Dan. But should empathy mean I just never comment on my own feelings in relation to things Dan and Phil do? I personally don't believe so, but I respect that the line falls in different places for different people. And in an ideal world I'd agree with you that Dan should be able to like what he wants to like and no one would draw any conclusions from anything he does, but that's not the world we live in. So I will feel how I feel, and Dan will still do what he does, and I'll respect his choices (even if not always how he chooses to convey them to us) but I don't feel an obligation to maintain total neutrality when discussing known behavior patterns of his. Anticipation of his behavior isn't the same as me saying he has no right to that behavior.

[alien]

@alien: My intention was to let people who've only recently joined the gang know that this is something that has been discussed before in great detail. I obviously can't tell anyone not to talk about it.

My apologies then, I misunderstood your comment about sparing people from having to read the discussion.

[somethingsketchy]

Wait are you implying that George is a made up name?

Maybe you should ask Dan that.

alien: My intention was to let people who've only recently joined the gang know that this is something that has been discussed before in great detail. I obviously can't tell anyone not to talk about it.

My apologies then, I misunderstood your comment about sparing people from having to read the discussion.

That was definitely badly formulated of me, so no need to apologise.

[fancybum]

It's less that I'm saying he has to ignore art because of the caption and more that I'm saying that I give him enough credit to understand the reality of the effect his actions have on his audience, and I as part of that audience am also giving myself enough credit t be aware that when Dan does something understanding the implications and later on decides he doesn't like those implications after all that he will let us know.

I definitely know I do have an emotional reaction to seeing Dan like something that implies they are together, I can't get around that but I can immediately check myself (self-preservation) and remind myself that what I want to assume it means may not be what it means, and Dan isn't always the most patient in conveying that correction to us. Sometimes the sucky part of an emotional reaction to something is that you get excited over a thing and then get your bubble burst. You can't really rationally think your way out of those moments when it comes to emotion, but you can when it comes to action.
That's why I'm talking about these things here and not @ mentioning him.

I don't lack empathy for Dan. I have a ton of empathy for Dan. But should empathy mean I just never comment on my own feelings in relation to things Dan and Phil do? I personally don't believe so, but I respect that the line falls in different places for different people. And in an ideal world I'd agree with you that Dan should be able to like what he wants to like and no one would draw any conclusions from anything he does, but that's not the world we live in. So I will feel how I feel, and Dan will still do what he does, and I'll respect his choices (even if not always how he chooses to convey them to us) but I don't feel an obligation to maintain total neutrality when discussing known behavior patterns of his. Anticipation of his behavior isn't the same as me saying he has no right to that behavior.

Ok this veered beyond what my actual issue was (and it’s 100% my issue for sure, not saying you or anybody needs to agree) which was: mocking. Express your feelings all damn day about everything, but I’m having trouble equating “expressing your feelings” with mocking the way somebody goes about doing something while appearing to disregard the reason. I don’t think those are the same things. Like you’re rolling your eyes at something he may do based on past behaviour, but past or present, he has a completely justifiable reason for doing it. But sure it’s just jokes, wasn’t that deep etc. I’m just expressing my feelings and my feelings can be summed up as: I am not fun at parties

[wiccamoody]

I find this tweet highly amusing lmao

Also in other news, I ordered something off of Firebox and it came with a tiny packet of haribo, which I didn't expect, and when I asked them about it, they said they always put sweets in their packages. While I 100% believe Phil goes on a lot of weird impulse buys from there, I can't help but think now that free candy is at least a little bit of an incentive when ordering

[George]

Wait are you implying that George is a made up name?

Maybe you should ask Dan that.

Hey, we Georges are valid!

[starwatersong]

Hmm... Phil mentioned Pigeon Watch in his replies. Guess they are acknowledging it.

[ratlad]

Hmm... Phil mentioned Pigeon Watch in his replies. Guess they are acknowledging it.

it doesn't exist in my book.
we can turn it against them and pretend it didn't even happen.
pigeons dont exist, unfortunately.... wish they did

[Ablissa]

[fieldoflovers]

I was rewatching some Dan videos today and I have a video idea for Dan. While I dislike the internet support group series I think Dan should make a video answering questions from 2012. It would be funny because it’d be so late but also it’d be interesting to see the humour and how that’s changed. And dan could make a point at the end about what seems terrible now won’t really matter in a few years.

Also i may not have just a tiny cringe attack when I remembered I too had emailed a question when i was 12

[greenergrass]

There's an active shooter at youtube headquaters

[wiccamoody]

I mean aside from the fact that I'm obsessed with Phil's shirt, the video was pretty average. There were some pretty good bants, and it's always nice to see them go head to head though tbh I would have preferred a dan vs. phil playing fortnite. The bit at the end where Dan was complaining about Phil's garbage disposal habits was hilariously domestic

There's an active shooter at youtube headquaters

How horrifying and terrible. I really hope everyone there is safe and they get the gunman detained right away

[sparkle]

I have nothing of substance to say apart from I laughed very hard, and Phil's new hair is giving me life.

(also is Dan only wearing one earring? YES)

[pastelspectre]

That was a good video. I laughed so hard lmao.

[sugar]

i LOVED that video. they seemed in good moods, super flirty, good bants. i was smiling the whole time.

it's not even a joke anymore though, dan won't shut up about sex.

[ratlad]

mmmmm finally some delicious food.
the ending was just... marriage... what a great video, they seemed so happy and ugh.. jesus, gross..
i think phil's done w the straightener bc his hair looks a bit more natural and voluminous! i really enjoyed their energy, but why did dan have to mention (yell) "SEX!!!" like okay dan, we get it, you're madly in love with phil.
I'm totally fine with feeling like a third wheel watching these vids because i get to experience (what seems like) genuine bants (as genuine u can get with a youtube video)
it left me in a happy mood!!!!!

[mm_sunny1993]

I LOVE this video. It was really good and I had a few good laughs I always enjoy the google feud videos. They are the ones I probably rewatch the most.
I lost it at the 'ohhh' part with the owls edited in and the part where they tried to remember the name from one of the guys from queer eye

They said it is snowing. But when was the last time it was snowing in London? Must have been filmed some time ago.

[SquishPhan]

That was a nice, light, fun video.

Seems like Dan’s wish almost came true, because every time there was an add break I got 2 adds instead of the usual 1.

[wiccamoody]

They said it is snowing. But when was the last time it was snowing in London? Must have been filmed some time ago.

I actually paused the video to google it because that seemed really strange to me, and it appears that there's potential snow in the forecast in the couple of days so I'm guessing it was actually filmed quite recently.

[sparkle]

I LOVE this video. It was really good and I had a few good laughs I always enjoy the google feud videos. They are the ones I probably rewatch the most.
I lost it at the 'ohhh' part with the owls edited in and the part where they tried to remember the name from one of the guys from queer eye

They said it is snowing. But when was the last time it was snowing in London? Must have been filmed some time ago.

it snowed yesterday near me, I dont know if that meant it was snowing down south, but it was definitely snowy yesterday in England

[dancy]

I loved it! Had some nice bants and it made me laugh, which to me is an important thing. I know some people don't like these types of videos but personally I do and I'll definitely give it a rewatch (didn't care much for the Fortnite video, sorry).

They said it is snowing. But when was the last time it was snowing in London? Must have been filmed some time ago.

Dan did mention Infinity War is coming out in about three weeks, which is true (for the UK at least) so I don’t imagine it was filmed all that long ago.