Dan & Phil Part 83: Where in the World is Daniel Howell

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knq
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alittledizzy wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:21 pm I can't wait to dig into those questions as soon as I get a break with work, but for now:
Is that a rug and pillow we've seen before? I'm awful at matching up interior decor stuff.
IG stories two days in a row? And something to analyze the bejesus out of? My favorite thing! Is that a blurry reflection of a light source in the matte finish of Phil's new Xbox controller? My crops are thriving!
glitterintheair wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:51 pm It's the lounge upstairs (the one with Dan's piano etc.); you can see the same rug and the pillow in Phil's IG story of Dan playing that game with the drums, I don't remember its name but you get it.
... oh. ._.

oh yeah you're right. IDB's YouTube kindly provides the IG video in question.
Well. Well then. Have I mentioned that the reflection of Phil's filming light was visible in the SodaStream from his last video? As was an amorphous red thing if you up the brightness. Fascinating stuff I know.
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I was going to say in response to today's topic but it seems relevant to put it here now: I think Dan and Phil lie a normal amount for humans generally. As a fandom that enjoys a good investigation--*ahem*--we probably 'catch' them lying more than normal, intentional or not.

...I'm looking at this all-over-the-place post and wondering if I'm going to open the phan tag on tumblr later and see someone going 'How dare IDB accuse Dan and Phil of lying about the color red!1!' :shrug:
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rizzo
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Not quite the tweet to tweet when people think you're Definitely Not Fine. :?
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A Phil insta story AND a Dan tweet all on the same day... whoa boys, careful you don’t feed us too much!

Was that the longest Dan has ever gone without tweeting?? 13 days? Wow.
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rizzo wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:42 pm Not quite the tweet to tweet when people think you're Definitely Not Fine. :?
I had the same thought; he must really be going through it.
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alittledizzy
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sapienveneficus wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:57 pm
rizzo wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:42 pm
Not quite the tweet to tweet when people think you're Definitely Not Fine. :?
I had the same thought; he must really be going through it.
Some of his replies to people were equally bleak. He's not even telling people not to worry.
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This level of self-depreciation is scary. I... I don't know what to think.
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He's not in the best of places and hasn't been so for a long time.
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No one can be okay all the time. Dan finding humor in his experience of being not okay and wanting to share that and even interact with people responding to him indicates that he might be more okay soon, just in my own experience.

And his orchid is indeed blooming.
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knq wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:40 pm No one can be okay all the time. Dan finding humor in his experience of being not okay and wanting to share that and even interact with people responding to him indicates that he might be more okay soon, just in my own experience.

And his orchid is indeed blooming.
Well what the heck room is this??
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glitterintheair
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Okay but that room doesn't even look like a room you would find in an apartment. The table and the window look more like an office kinda thing, imo.
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The thing with depression is that it's a constat swing between feeling bad, feeling worse and having some clarity moments. I would hope that it's just a bad moment (and I think tweeting right now might be a signal that he's seeing the light again, even if faint and far away). I don't want to think that the reason for his silence of 3 months is solely because of his mental health, because it's nothing I would wish to anyone, especially not someone I admire. I don't know what to think at this point.

That room definitely doesn't look like their apartment, and I agree that it looks more like an office/hotel kind of space. God who knows.
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Based on the surface the flower is on, the room seems to be the same one he took this pic in from June 2017, just at a different angle (not sure where it is in their flat, though).
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Oh, Dan. :hugrb: I'm going through a depressive episode myself at the mo, so I empathise. Poor lad. I'd be a complete mess without my bf so I'm very glad he has Phil and so glad to see they seem to be very focused on them and their little world rn. Even with Phil's uploads and social media, it's almost like he's doing the bare minimum and feeding us as an active way of "defending their bubble" if that makes sense.

On the orchid, under spoiler just in case:
That's their kitchen window. (In the living flat, I mean. But at this point it's pretty much confirmed the other flat is gone, anyway, imo)
eternal dan and phil mood -> :happytears:
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autumnhearth
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For a second I had moving panic as we’ve never seen that type of window, but of course Phil posted a story from their lounge earlier. I’m going to guess that’s in their actual kitchen. I think the only glimpse of those windows we got was when it was dark outside. The orchid is bleautiful. Now what the heck is that other object?
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knq
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@phanfckingtastic When have we seen their kitchen window to compare it though? I feel like that's one of the rooms they don't show often.

@autumnhearth It's this modern lamp that charges by USB. I now have a very cute internal image of Dan wandering around their flat with this thing like a nightlight. :happytears:

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autumnhearth
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Aww headcanon accepted @knq
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Is this new? I'd guess not? Damn Twitter getting me excited for nothing.
edit: I checked their following and this is not new. Ugh, what wouldn't I give for more radio.
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autumnhearth
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I’ve never had any interest in Justin Bieber whatsoever, but I saw this Dan like shared on Tumblr and thought it was significant. Just sharing the text under the photo.

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You can stop reading after the word swag.
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Yea.. i .. guess (?) that's hopefully relevant to Dan's current headspace. It's really hard to interpret all Dan's (re)tweets and likes of the last days or so. I hope it's more of an indication that the most troubling times are behind him and that he's planning a return in the nearish future. But you could also read it as underlining the the mental health situation he's experiencing right now and that it's far from good.
Or we can be trying to read all kinds of meaning in it that isn't necessarily there. :shrug: There's no way in knowing what this means to Dan, it sure wouldn't be the first time that our guesses about a tweet or like were dreadfully wrong.
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autumnhearth wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:16 pm I’ve never had any interest in Justin Bieber whatsoever, but I saw this Dan like shared on Tumblr and thought it was significant. Just sharing the text under the photo.

Image

You can stop reading after the word swag.
Not sure JB is the best vessel to communicate one’s feelings, but obviously he relates with “the artist’s struggle” and aligning creative output with audience expectations and the need to put one’s health and wellness first.

I am very curious to know by what success measure is Dan applying to himself in order to know when he has completed his journey? A set timeline, a fitness goal, a personal project... or is he just waiting for the creative spark to manifest itself again? Or, more cynically, is he just stumbling in the dark?

Is he expecting to be the perfect version of himself before he can present content and himself again to society—I wonder if he’s putting the bar too high for himself, and I certainly hope he does not expect his audience as a whole to be the best judge. I have a feeling he will mark his return like a risen Phoenix, a changed man, full of creative energy, with a new life perspective, only to find a mostly apathetic audience who just want things to be the cozy ol sameness (just maybe like 10% gayer).
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I’ve been a little absent today but did Phil like dans tweet from today just now-6 hours later?
Idk if it is their kitchen or not but the weird tweeting, pictures, and then them presenting a United front but not really existing in the same place (at least that we are seeing) is leaving me uneasy
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knq
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@Amiaw It seems so. Maybe he checked his twitter before bed and realized he'd meant to like it earlier.

Dan's twitter likes are the only consistent Dan 'content' that we're seeing, but of course it's really not his content, it's just what he's choosing to curate, and it's difficult to get anything more than a very general sense of 'dan (and phil) support people choosing to take breaks from entertainment careers in order to improve their mental health' which, Dan already came right out and said the hiatus fell under the category of "doing good things for your mental health" so that's not exactly a revelation.

@Phantasy Just reading your description of someone full of creative energy makes me feel tired. I guess it's just that kind of time-period-of-unspecified-length. I think the trap Dan falls into of thinking he has to be flawless before he can just be is one a lot of people fall into. It's also something he seems pretty aware is unrealistic yet continues to get trapped in, which is very Dan.
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This is basically just me saying a big happy birthday to idb!! :birthday: I'm so glad I found this place, you all are so great and lovely :love1: (and maybe I got sappy idk..*coughs*)

But uh, to stay more on topic, I hope Dan's doing alright--though I would say being able to tweet about it means he's higher than lower--and I've been watching this before bed lately because, while Dan says some silly stuff and stuff that makes absolutely no sense, this is just very calming to me, and makes me want a complete compilation.

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First and foremost :birthday: :happybirthday: IDB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I lowkey wanted a celebratory confetti emoji and mistook this one as such ----> :blowingleaves: but its actually just leaves oops) cheers to the future, may it be very bright and full content :ribena:

Anyways...Thank you everyone for your wonderful and thoughtful posts so far! We are already half-way through our IDB Fest Week and the topics we will be discussing will be stepping things up a notch. I understand people will talk whenever there is an update from Dan and Phil themselves so feel free to peruse our previous topics if you had missed any.

░░░ Today's Topic: Sexuality

> What are your opinions on their denial of male attraction in the earlier years vs. the recent openness towards it?


> Do you believe Dan and Phil are guilty of queer-baiting? Explain why or why not.



Theme:Post-baking universe vs The Dark Era
Previous Topics:
........Fandom culture throughout the years...
........People’s perception of Daniel Howell and Phil Lester
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wynoxium
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hello everyone! longtime lurker here joining in on the conversation.

> What are your opinions on their denial of male attraction in the earlier years vs. the recent openness towards it?

tl;dr - just a bunch of incoherent thoughts because i'm an insomniac who has no idea how to convert rational thought into remotely comprehensible language. i apologize for this getting so long, i'll try to summarize - i guess i'm trying to say that at their age and time on youtube/the internet and the environment they were surrounded by, their reactions were natural. I believe anyone in their position would have been inclined to respond in the same way - and it is how many people i know have reacted to the idea of same-sex attraction. now as adults, (and best friends that have been together for almost 10 years and displayed their lives on the internet) that are not only more aware and educated, but are also more sure of their own identity - they are inevitably going to be more open and comfortable towards male attraction, regardless of their own sexualities.
after witnessing their progression over the years regarding this matter, i could draw parallels between their responses vs. the responses of myself and my other queer friends. a lot of them denied any mention of same-sex attraction whenever it came up - defending the fact that "they were straight" for years until just recently.

throughout my years in school, i've witnessed countless guys who exhibit the extremes of behavior like that. in fact, one of my good friends, who is now out of the closet, was extremely protective of his so called "heterosexuality," and on top of that, was quite homophobic. he grew up in a household with his single mother - an asian immigrant, and his grandparents who had extremely conservative values and religious beliefs. he feared the idea of even mentioning the topic in conversation, let alone coming out to them. he faced bullying and even death threats at school. to deal with the bullying, he turned into the bully instead. his hateful reaction wasn't justified, but was understandable because of the environment he was surrounded by. again, this is an extreme example of the reactions and environment that many young people face, but it does relate to the reactions many people have - especially those that are private or insecure.

even i impulsively denied my own sexuality early on - one of my first memories from grade 5 is talking to a friend about whether they support gay marriage, and i shook my head, said "ew." (how ironic - i had a pretty big crush on him) it was most likely out of fear - a fear that i would be made fun of, a subconscious fear that i might be outed.

I bring up these examples - not because they exactly reflect what dan and/or phil may have been through - but because at least drawing from my personal experiences, it seems normal for any person, regardless of their sexuality, to have had some kind of fear and denial when talking about the matter in general, and much worse - on the internet.

though it was especially prevalent just a few years ago - even today there is an obvious social stigma around two guys being close in a physical/emotional manner or sharing a bond (even a platonic one), because of the fear that they will be perceived differently. however, it is so much more "accepted" now to be more open to that kind of attraction, even platonically. more and more teens and young adults are becoming less afraid to test and experiment their attractions and sexualities in order to find their identities, and fewer and fewer people are acting negatively towards that idea.

both of them were young when they started youtube, and even though it was only 10 years ago, i would say people online were even more close-minded and ignorant than the people on the internet now. a substantial amount of the first comments on even pinof were questioning their sexuality and/or hateful and homophobic, so obviously this has been present for the entirety of their youtube careers - and with their growing popularity, not only did the "shippers" increase, but so did the negativity and hate and the interest in their personal lives.

at least when it comes to the times that dan has denied the fact that he is gay in the earlier years as shown in the video - nothing he did seemed intentionally harmful, obviously, but it did feel like he was overcompensating. i mean this in the sense that he was trying overly hard to deny it outright as straightforwardly as possible but also make sure that nothing he said was mean or homophobic. (ie. thank you, but NO, unfortunately not, sorry guys!) he was aware of the fact that he would be disappointing people and apologized - which is what i find to be odd. he has the assumption that every person who is curious about his sexuality is a teenager who needs confirmation of dan's sexuality in order to calculate their chances of being able to marry him :roll:

times have changed and progressed in society as a whole - but more importantly, dan and phil have both progressed in their lives and careers and relationships with each other. they are adults. i think that's more than enough reason for any realization that they had about being more open towards male attraction. furthermore, they have become more accustomed to being internet personalities and celebrities and the hate and interest in their personal lives that inevitably comes with the job. as a result, the fear and stigma has probably dissipated, and regardless of their sexualities, they can express that openness towards male attraction that they were afraid to show earlier.
if the both of them are truly straight - i have a lot of conflicting thoughts surrounding this, which leads into the next question:

> Do you believe Dan and Phil are guilty of queer-baiting? Explain why or why not.

tl;dr - i don't have a clear answer to this - but if i had to give a definitive answer, i would say no. i don't think d & p purposefully did anything to "queer-bait" their fans, and i don't think i can really make a fair, moral judgment about either of their sexualities/relationships. they have never done anything outright that i could consider "queer-baiting."
if you had asked me this question a few months ago, i would've have said yes, without a doubt. i joined the phandom pretty early on but hadn't really kept up during late 2017- early 2018, so when i started watching again, all of their innuendos/mentions of male attraction seemed kind of forced to me. it seemed plausible to me that they are trying to capitalize off of their hinted relationship - (this is when i fell deep into phan theories and such - trying to get myself to come to a conclusion about their sexualities and relationship) i witnessed a stark difference from the early years - where they just outright denied it to both of them making suggestive jokes every other second and openly talking about male attraction.

i questioned their intentions:
if they were straight, what are they gaining from hinting at the idea that they are queer? are people really more inclined to watch them/support them if they do this? would they stop watching if they really were straight?
if they really are queer, still, what are they gaining? were the things they said before just a cover up? a lie? if they so clearly denied it earlier, why suddenly show this openness to male attraction? why don't they address the fact outright?

i still don't know the answer to any of those questions, which is why i really don't know how to answer this question.

but i say no because:

i think that phan was shipped from the beginning, and subsequently, the idea that the both of them are queer has followed. i don't think anything they did early on was done to purposefully endorse the idea - but they were likely aware of it. a significant amount of their following/popularity has been built on the idea that the both of them are in a relationship - but to what extent were they responsible for perpetuating that idea?

i'm not sure how i feel about saying that they are guilty of queer-baiting -- firstly, they are real people - not characters - and go through so much more than we see on screen, which is why i find myself uncomfortable assuming anything about their sexualities/relationships past what they have told us and shown us. they aren't obligated to reveal anything about their sexualities or relationships. they haven't done one thing that i would even remotely consider "queer-bait."

"putting on an act" or "throwing in hints" for 10 years just to make a profit? yeah, doesn't seem plausible to me.

the phandom, at least parts of it, seems to pick apart every single thing d & p do, regardless of whether or not the both of them purposefully intend to include those "hints."

they both share an obviously real bond and friendship and whether or not they share more of a connection than that is their business until they choose to reveal anything regarding the matter to us.

and i don't see how queer-baiting would be healthy or beneficial to either of them. inevitably, and probably soon, the both of them will have to reveal things about their relationships and careers - and i think we are at that transition period in their lives as they get older and progress through adulthood -- i think that would help me make a better judgment about the whole situation.
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