Dan & Phil Part 5: Dan & Phil Lester

[daphenaxa]

the thing is that the tweet is like incredibly sexual but it is also normal standard fandom behaviour. We know Dan is fandom trash so he is down with the vocab. Honestly "dad choke me with your legs" is incredibly sexual but it is also what everyone on twitter writes when they have a feels overwhelm or to be funny. Dan himself gets that constantly. I remember that girl that sent "dan choke me with you legs" on younow and phil was like 'brandyyyyyyyy "

[alittledizzy]

Theory:
I've sort of been feeling like the tour stress finally caught up with Phil during the second half of 2015 sometime, just not in a very obvious way. Looking at Dan's channel I think most of us can agree his quality dropped around the start of 2015 and he also started uploading less, but imo Phil's channel seemed very unaffected for a long time...? I remember him having lots of great videos the first half of 2015 that I really enjoyed (personal faves: Punk Edits, Phil in the Club, Easter baking, Japhan DITL, I Destroyed My House) and many of them seemed like they'd take some proper planning and/or actual thought to pull off. But then later that year there were a lot of challenges and a few videos like The Contact Lens Incident and Phil reading his old diary that just felt sort of... sub-par. Like the ideas were good but he could have put a lot more effort into the execution of them (compare his diary-reading, where he's legit just reading from the book, to his older videos reading his chat logs where he plays all the characters). I like to think that that's the touring finally taking its toll on Phil's channel.

I have not been feeling that way about 2016 Phil. I don't think his videos have been sub-par this year. But I do think they all seem to be a bit lower-effort. Collabs are famously easy content, and his other 2 videos have been a reaction video and what's basically a vlog. Low-effort content during a busy time of his life, yeah? Smart decision, if it's a conscious one, because it makes it less noticable that he's strapped for time/energy right now. Like I agree with daphenaxa about the Hazel collab being very unplanned, but personally I didn't mind that it was because I still enjoyed it as a collab and as the two of them hanging out and having bants, you know?

Yeah I think I agree on your theory actually. And it correspond to the image of Dan and Phil that I have in my mind. Dan stresses before things. Like a lot. He stresses himself up, builds a mountain of anxiety before a task should be done but when he finally does it, he is actually a lot more comfortable. And that's what we saw during the tour where he maybe didn't upload great fantastic quality videos but where he uploaded A LOT. I think Phil is the contrary. He is more organized and rational so doesn't particularly stresses up before the tour but when he was caught up in it, it's just that he didn't have enough time to invest in his videos so they were more simple.

On the Hazel collab (or any collab really), i agree with you that it doesn't have to be that well prepared or well though if the atmosphere of the video makes up for it, with the bants and chemistry. But here it didn't do it for me because i felt neither.

I think you guys basically nailed a big difference in how they operate. Especially considering we do know that Phil is in control of a lot of the more nitpicky details of planning, he's also probably just plain got more to do during the tour that requires constant attention. I hope he finds that fulfilling. I've thought about it before and I really can't decide if it is a control thing - for both of them, with them only really trusting each other - or something Phil has discovered he finds enjoyable.

There's also the chance that he's just as burnt out on youtube than Dan, but that Phil has less issue with supplementing content using collabs and quickly thrown together things. To be fair, those videos still blow most youtubers out of the water in terms of views, so it's not like their audience is really punishing them for it. I guess the real test will be to see what their post-tour content looks like, but if they're doing Europe after the US we may not get them 'post tour' until 2017, at which point they'll have gone almost two years without making their regular, 'normal quality' content. Phil is, imo, more likely to be able to resume standard but that just goes back to Phil not overthinking things quite as much. Preparing, yeah, and planning his videos well - but not seeming to really put them on any kind of pedestal in terms of youtube quality video making.

[spaceguitar]

felucca I really enjoy your post! Also alittledizzy I always miss the big Phil discussions that are going on because of the time differences with all the users. I'm in lab/lectures all day so night is when I usually have time to discuss and by then the Phil discussion have moved on. I'm going to go back to the ideas of Dan-centrism for a moment but you guys can ignore if your not interested:

The phandom is Dan-centric. There is no getting around that. Dan talk/sexualization is prominent in every form of social media, blog and even this forum. He is the hero/protagonist in every phanfiction and he is the core of the phandom. Phil on the other hand is represented as the savior, comforter that helped the protagonist Dan discover himself and grow. He is the more mature (already mature), closed off, private mystery man who no one truly knows. Doe he have a secret agenda? Is he manipulative? Many try to theorize what makes Phil but none really give us the truth.

I adore Phil, I have for a long time. He is fascinating to me. I find him unique in every aspect. He is strong minded, creative, funny. He is kind and amiable. He is very subtle in everything he does which makes me love him more. I crave for him to be more appreciated because he really does deserve it. The obsession with Phil getting more attention skews off the fact that society seems to favor whats acceptable or ideal. All the vloggers and YT personalities (Alfie is a huge example of this) are popular for no reason other than they represent a tangible charater in society that one can relate to.

Phil in all senses is unique and that is again shown in his youtube channel. He makes content that differs from other, his whole persona differs from others. Yes he appeals to younger people, yes he is not crude, loud, or obnoxious but he is charming nonetheless. With his mismatched socks and weird animal facts/noises he really warms my heart up. I call him an acquired taste. Once you have him you want to cherish him and talk about him for hours but others won't see it that way and that is acceptable. Our perceptions are skewed by everything including our initial feelings. I love everything he makes because I love him, I can't really be objective in that. I don't get insulted when someone else doesn't like something because I recognize that that is their opinion. I encourage Phil criticism, even you jaej (if you even read this). Felucca was right in pointing that Phil has been under stress and this has affected his content and I appreciate the opinions.

On why the discussion on Phil is less, its because people might not see everything he does. I love Phil therefore I look for more things in videos etc that I can talk about. Many of the tumblr phandom will focus on how squishy Dan looks in contrast to the witty remark Phil makes. It happens but I'm not salty about it because I understand that sometimes something superficial is easier to decipher. This website I feel is pretty equal in discussing both At least we are getting there so I'm really happy. People do notice and appreciate the little things Phil does and many of you who previously didn't understand him are liking/knowing him more which is great Okay end of rant but this is from a long phil stan so hopefully this gave you some insight!

I appreciate the fact that you accept that not everyone will love Phil!
You say 'he is not crude, loud, or obnoxious but he is charming nonetheless', which I agree, he is not those things. But these aren't really positive features of Dan that people like either. I take Dan's obnoxious side w/ what I see as a perceptive, critical and hilarious side.
Also, not every fic is Dan-centric. I read a lot of phanfic, and I see that people often cast Phil as the protagonist, and usually emphasize his shyness and possible awkwardness b/c that is what they relate to.

[Catallena]

Sometimes I find some kinky af smut phanfic and I'll be like 'Haha as if D&P are that kinky realistically they're probably boring as hell just like 99% of the rest of the world population' but then Dan says shit like 'choke me' and goes around making references to BDSM while calling people 'daddy' and I'm just like

[spider]

Sometimes I find some kinky af smut phanfic and I'll be like 'Haha as if D&P are that kinky realistically they're probably boring as hell just like 99% of the rest of the world population' but then Dan says shit like 'choke me' and goes around making references to BDSM while calling people 'daddy' and I'm just like

Never forget.

[sweetmm]

felucca I really enjoy your post! Also alittledizzy I always miss the big Phil discussions that are going on because of the time differences with all the users. I'm in lab/lectures all day so night is when I usually have time to discuss and by then the Phil discussion have moved on.

I am also of the opinion that most Phil's viewers including me are not in the category that psycho analyse him or even simply going through/comment on his videos, tweets, etc. I'm guessing the younger audience are not into discussions and merely enjoying his outputs and the older ones tend to comprehend what Phil Lester wants to promote AmazingPhil as and accepts it. Phil Lester himself as a person seem to be well-rounded with loving family and circle of good friends (and a loving long companion) so there is nothing much to rant about. He is bloody boring to gossip about

Side Note: I'm enjoying the fact Phil is collaborating more; its wonderful to watch his chemistry with various different individuals. I do enjoy Phil & the ladies

[karma_yeah]

So, something caught my eye in the last thread, (I'm sorry, I don't remember who posted this. ;_; ) and I thought it was weird because I swear I've never seen this?

http://amazingphil.tumblr.com/post/18285383011

3. Stéphane from The Science of Sleep - reminds me of me

Unfortunately, I've never seen The Science of Sleep, so my intuition could be completely off the mark. Looking at Wikipedia and reading about Stéphane gave me a bit of context on who this character Phil supposedly relates to is, and here was somethings that I found curious:

Stéphane Miroux is a man whose vivid dreams and imagination often interfere with his ability to interact with reality[...]His mother implies the position is a creative role, and he prepares colourful drawings, each showing a disaster, for his "disasterology" calendar. However, nobody appreciates his talents and it transpires that his mother had led him on[...]Stéphane realizes that Stéphanie (love interest), like him, is creative and artistic[...]Stéphane becomes more enamoured with Stéphanie the more he spends time with her and shares his many inventions with her[...]

For one, it doesn't surprise me that Phil sees himself in this character. It seems that he is aware of how eccentric he can be to the point where he may throw some people off.

The first excerpt reminded me a bit of Chris' ask.fm answer about Phil seeming like he lived in two worlds. The second excerpt, however, makes me a bit sad. I'm sure there are several points in Phil's life where he may feel like his creativity and thought process may not be appreciated by those around him, so there's that.

Along with that train of thought, there's a second half of the plot where Stéphane falls in love with a character who he both relates to and can share his underappreciated creative side with. I'm not going to say Phan, (though I'm sure people can draw a million connections there) but there is also seems to be an undercurrent of needing approval/validation from Stéphane about his passions that resounded with Phil in some form.

I don't know, I thought it was interesting? I don't even think I made sense, considering how my knowledge of this movie is literally from Wikipedia. If anyone who has seen this movie can expand on my thoughts that'd be grand.

I really liked your analysis crash[]. I've never seen heard of The Science of Sleep, and I'm glad you included the wiki info. I think Phil saying Stephane reminds him of himself is one of the most open/upfront things he's ever said, so that makes it very telling.

His mind definitely works in a unique way that few other people can probably comprehend. I think human beings have a natural desire to be understood and appreciated for who we are. So to meet someone like Dan, who really appreciated obsessively fangirled over Phil for his creativity (not to mention being very attractive) had to have been very appealing to him. And if voldy is to be believed (I'm a believer) Dan kissed him first. Po-wer-ful. They were very very lucky to have found each other.

[Cora]

Sometimes I find some kinky af smut phanfic and I'll be like 'Haha as if D&P are that kinky realistically they're probably boring as hell just like 99% of the rest of the world population' but then Dan says shit like 'choke me' and goes around making references to BDSM while calling people 'daddy' and I'm just like

Never forget.

[jaej]

sorry but the only phil thing i really don't get is the insistence that his brain is so different and that people just don't understand him properly. there's a difference between not enjoying and not understanding, and i think a lot of people just don't enjoy phil's sense of humour or way of acting, it's not that he's some creative mind that we can't understand he's really not that bizarre or out there, i really don't understand that view. he can be odd, sure, but it really is exaggerated. he says the same kind of things that most people i know say, i've never thought of it as notable this is a 100% thing i want genuine opinions on because im really confused and can't tell if it's because i'm autistic and don't really see what is considered neurotypical or not

[alittledizzy]

sorry but the only phil thing i really don't get is the insistence that his brain is so different and that people just don't understand him properly. there's a difference between not enjoying and not understanding, and i think a lot of people just don't enjoy phil's sense of humour or way of acting, it's not that he's some creative mind that we can't understand he's really not that bizarre or out there, i really don't understand that view. he can be odd, sure, but it really is exaggerated. he says the same kind of things that most people i know say, i've never thought of it as notable this is a 100% thing i want genuine opinions on because im really confused and can't tell if it's because i'm autistic and don't really see what is considered neurotypical or not

I don't think that when people say his brain is different, that they necessarily mean his sense of humor. I do genuinely think that he makes mental connections from Point A to Point K when other people would jump to Point B. It doesn't mean he's wacky in a cartoon character/sitcom way, just that sometimes he can bring a perspective to something that is left of center from what most people would consider normal. I would guess that people in Phil's normal day to day life are more exposed to this than people watching AmazingPhil, save maybe the occasional moments in liveshows where he's as unguarded as he'll ever be on camera.

The thing that drives it home most for me is this description of Phil from Chris. It's obvious Chris is not talking about Phil's sense of humor or his creative output, but as Phil as a person.

[karma_yeah]

Sorry, I’m a bit of a lurker, came here recently through a link because I skulk around Tumblr, it’s kind of my hobby, as you do. I love the discussion on this website by actual mature people, I’m not exactly young and love a conversation that isn’t “Heart Eyes Howell”, etc. Bear with me while I try to figure out the logistics of the layout here.

I totally agree with the topic of most conversation being “Dan-centric”. This definitely isn’t old news but one thing that irks me about their videos together is when Dan takes control with his screaming and shouting. I love Dan and all but sometimes I want to put a gag on him for a few minutes so Phil can have a say. I mean not everyone is a big fan of the “AmazingPhil” persona but I admire his subtlety and much quieter nature. “YouTube Personalities” (Christ) are often overzealous and fake and I hate seeing their dynamic slip into this with loud noises and Dan’s “this guy” embellishments every five seconds.

000dia000 Glad you found us and that you're enjoying the "bants". There's quite an age range here, but don't kid yourself, sometimes the conversation goes WAYYYY beyond "Heart eyes"! (check out some of the other threads for fun)

[jaej]

sorry but the only phil thing i really don't get is the insistence that his brain is so different and that people just don't understand him properly. there's a difference between not enjoying and not understanding, and i think a lot of people just don't enjoy phil's sense of humour or way of acting, it's not that he's some creative mind that we can't understand he's really not that bizarre or out there, i really don't understand that view. he can be odd, sure, but it really is exaggerated. he says the same kind of things that most people i know say, i've never thought of it as notable this is a 100% thing i want genuine opinions on because im really confused and can't tell if it's because i'm autistic and don't really see what is considered neurotypical or not

I don't think that when people say his brain is different, that they necessarily mean his sense of humor. I do genuinely think that he makes mental connections from Point A to Point K when other people would jump to Point B. It doesn't mean he's wacky in a cartoon character/sitcom way, just that sometimes he can bring a perspective to something that is left of center from what most people would consider normal. I would guess that people in Phil's normal day to day life are more exposed to this than people watching AmazingPhil, save maybe the occasional moments in liveshows where he's as unguarded as he'll ever be on camera.

The thing that drives it home most for me is this description of Phil from Chris. It's obvious Chris is not talking about Phil's sense of humor or his creative output, but as Phil as a person.

sorry, i didn't just mean his sense of humour but his general personality, but i didn't know how to explain the way he acts without just saying 'him' or, worse, the dreaded 'persona', here meaning actual phil lester as a genuine person. but either way, i can't see what people mean when they talk about this. i just really don't see the odd or different side, i don't get it

[fakelights]

Theory:
I've sort of been feeling like the tour stress finally caught up with Phil during the second half of 2015 sometime, just not in a very obvious way. Looking at Dan's channel I think most of us can agree his quality dropped around the start of 2015 and he also started uploading less, but imo Phil's channel seemed very unaffected for a long time...? I remember him having lots of great videos the first half of 2015 that I really enjoyed (personal faves: Punk Edits, Phil in the Club, Easter baking, Japhan DITL, I Destroyed My House) and many of them seemed like they'd take some proper planning and/or actual thought to pull off. But then later that year there were a lot of challenges and a few videos like The Contact Lens Incident and Phil reading his old diary that just felt sort of... sub-par. Like the ideas were good but he could have put a lot more effort into the execution of them (compare his diary-reading, where he's legit just reading from the book, to his older videos reading his chat logs where he plays all the characters). I like to think that that's the touring finally taking its toll on Phil's channel.

I have not been feeling that way about 2016 Phil. I don't think his videos have been sub-par this year. But I do think they all seem to be a bit lower-effort. Collabs are famously easy content, and his other 2 videos have been a reaction video and what's basically a vlog. Low-effort content during a busy time of his life, yeah? Smart decision, if it's a conscious one, because it makes it less noticable that he's strapped for time/energy right now. Like I agree with daphenaxa about the Hazel collab being very unplanned, but personally I didn't mind that it was because I still enjoyed it as a collab and as the two of them hanging out and having bants, you know?

Yeah I think I agree on your theory actually. And it correspond to the image of Dan and Phil that I have in my mind. Dan stresses before things. Like a lot. He stresses himself up, builds a mountain of anxiety before a task should be done but when he finally does it, he is actually a lot more comfortable. And that's what we saw during the tour where he maybe didn't upload great fantastic quality videos but where he uploaded A LOT. I think Phil is the contrary. He is more organized and rational so doesn't particularly stresses up before the tour but when he was caught up in it, it's just that he didn't have enough time to invest in his videos so they were more simple.

On the Hazel collab (or any collab really), i agree with you that it doesn't have to be that well prepared or well though if the atmosphere of the video makes up for it, with the bants and chemistry. But here it didn't do it for me because i felt neither.

I think you guys basically nailed a big difference in how they operate. Especially considering we do know that Phil is in control of a lot of the more nitpicky details of planning, he's also probably just plain got more to do during the tour that requires constant attention. I hope he finds that fulfilling. I've thought about it before and I really can't decide if it is a control thing - for both of them, with them only really trusting each other - or something Phil has discovered he finds enjoyable.

There's also the chance that he's just as burnt out on youtube than Dan, but that Phil has less issue with supplementing content using collabs and quickly thrown together things. To be fair, those videos still blow most youtubers out of the water in terms of views, so it's not like their audience is really punishing them for it. I guess the real test will be to see what their post-tour content looks like, but if they're doing Europe after the US we may not get them 'post tour' until 2017, at which point they'll have gone almost two years without making their regular, 'normal quality' content. Phil is, imo, more likely to be able to resume standard but that just goes back to Phil not overthinking things quite as much. Preparing, yeah, and planning his videos well - but not seeming to really put them on any kind of pedestal in terms of youtube quality video making.

Great points, everyone
It is noticeable how much Phil's channel is being affected in the last few months. Not dramatically, but there was a change and, like you said, he doesn't seem so bothered by it. Also looking forward to how things will be after tour. If they can find it in themselves to get back on track and focus more on their channels and in how they are being presented for their audience I think it will be fine, although I worry a little after seeing how drained Dan was after the UK leg of the tour. Now it's just a waiting game. Let's see how they are dealing with their content while being on the road for 3 months

[coffee pig]

the thing is that the tweet is like incredibly sexual but it is also normal standard fandom behaviour. We know Dan is fandom trash so he is down with the vocab. Honestly "dad choke me with your legs" is incredibly sexual but it is also what everyone on twitter writes when they have a feels overwhelm or to be funny. Dan himself gets that constantly. I remember that girl that sent "dan choke me with you legs" on younow and phil was like 'brandyyyyyyyy "

This is all true, but at the same time its still a hilarious thing to tweet to over 2 million people, some who might not be tuned into the vocab. Dan has a bunch of random celebrities following him, like Gerard Way and Stephen Fry. It's also amusing to remember that the good people at ChannelFlip check up on the social media accounts of the people they manage on a regular basis. Almost as funny as the mental image of some random suit at CrunchyRoll watching Dan hug a Haru pillow topless.

[alittledizzy]

sorry but the only phil thing i really don't get is the insistence that his brain is so different and that people just don't understand him properly. there's a difference between not enjoying and not understanding, and i think a lot of people just don't enjoy phil's sense of humour or way of acting, it's not that he's some creative mind that we can't understand he's really not that bizarre or out there, i really don't understand that view. he can be odd, sure, but it really is exaggerated. he says the same kind of things that most people i know say, i've never thought of it as notable this is a 100% thing i want genuine opinions on because im really confused and can't tell if it's because i'm autistic and don't really see what is considered neurotypical or not

I don't think that when people say his brain is different, that they necessarily mean his sense of humor. I do genuinely think that he makes mental connections from Point A to Point K when other people would jump to Point B. It doesn't mean he's wacky in a cartoon character/sitcom way, just that sometimes he can bring a perspective to something that is left of center from what most people would consider normal. I would guess that people in Phil's normal day to day life are more exposed to this than people watching AmazingPhil, save maybe the occasional moments in liveshows where he's as unguarded as he'll ever be on camera.

The thing that drives it home most for me is this description of Phil from Chris. It's obvious Chris is not talking about Phil's sense of humor or his creative output, but as Phil as a person.

sorry, i didn't just mean his sense of humour but his general personality, but i didn't know how to explain the way he acts without just saying 'him' or, worse, the dreaded 'persona', here meaning actual phil lester as a genuine person. but either way, i can't see what people mean when they talk about this. i just really don't see the odd or different side, i don't get it

I don't think we would, tbh. Being a mainstream youtuber with a fanbase of teenagers isn't the result of someone broadcasting their inner weirdo to the world. Just like Dan isn't actually a socially incapable introvert who never leaves the house, they are carefully edited and polished mainstream versions of their actual selves on youtube. But because we don't see that side of Phil doesn't invalidate it's existence, especially when we see people like Chris and Hazel - who certainly know him better than we do - acknowledge it.

[karma_yeah]

Sometimes I find some kinky af smut phanfic and I'll be like 'Haha as if D&P are that kinky realistically they're probably boring as hell just like 99% of the rest of the world population' but then Dan says shit like 'choke me' and goes around making references to BDSM while calling people 'daddy' and I'm just like

Never forget.

Thank you!! I'm crap at archiving and being able to find stuff like this (and not technically proficient enough to post it probably!). This tweet, the video Dan did where he tied Phil up and was playing with a knife and the time's they've blindfolded one another in videos has always made me think they are not vanilla. (definitely not saying they are full blown BDSM either, I think there's a broad spectrum, but my guess is they like to keep things interesting)

[idk]

[offtopic]off topic (and not to interupt the phil talk) but this is nice

http://spacecattle.tumblr.com/post/1426 ... /2012-2016[/offtopic]

[sweetmm]

The thing that drives it home most for me is this description of Phil from Chris. It's obvious Chris is not talking about Phil's sense of humor or his creative output, but as Phil as a person.

Yep Chris definition embodies my personal thoughts on Phil Lester; I am going to say Phil is one of those who is predominately "right-brain" but his "left-brain" still manages his "right-brain" decisions.

Hence his control on the business-side of and this unfortunately meant control on his creativity too. However when he is put on spot and he had no time to consult his l-b; then we get those jewels from his impromptu r-b.

[oqua]

[offtopic]off topic (and not to interupt the phil talk) but this is nice

http://spacecattle.tumblr.com/post/1426 ... /2012-2016[/offtopic]

Sometimes I just feel so proud of and happy for him.

[spaceguitar]

[offtopic]off topic (and not to interupt the phil talk) but this is nice

http://spacecattle.tumblr.com/post/1426 ... /2012-2016[/offtopic]

I saw that too, and I love it

[elias]

Never forget.

Thank you!! I'm crap at archiving and being able to find stuff like this (and not technically proficient enough to post it probably!). This tweet, the video Dan did where he tied Phil up and was playing with a knife and the time's they've blindfolded one another in videos has always made me think they are not vanilla. (definitely not saying they are full blown BDSM either, I think there's a broad spectrum, but my guess is they like to keep things interesting)

also the b&w bandage bondage naked booths

[manged]

sorry but the only phil thing i really don't get is the insistence that his brain is so different and that people just don't understand him properly. there's a difference between not enjoying and not understanding, and i think a lot of people just don't enjoy phil's sense of humour or way of acting, it's not that he's some creative mind that we can't understand he's really not that bizarre or out there, i really don't understand that view. he can be odd, sure, but it really is exaggerated. he says the same kind of things that most people i know say, i've never thought of it as notable this is a 100% thing i want genuine opinions on because im really confused and can't tell if it's because i'm autistic and don't really see what is considered neurotypical or not

I gotta agree with you on this. Sure, I'm just as interested in reading interpretations of his behavior as I am in reading Dan's. There are less things we can confidently conclude about Phil in comparison to Dan, so I guess that makes him more ~mysterious, more ~distant, and therefore, more ~strange. But boyyyy do my eyes roll when people start labeling him as some sort of enigma. I think some people glorify his eccentricity just to make the attempts at psychoanalysis more interesting. No direct shade intended though, I've only skimmed the recent Phil posts so I don't know what has been said in this discussion; I can only speak in general terms. I'm not autistic but I'm far from neurotypical, so take this however you'd like.

[daphenaxa]

[content deleted at poster's request because the links were wrong, see this post for the version with proper links ]

[spaceguitar]

daphenaxa
your links are not working for me

[albion]

#WhyWasDanInTheAlley?

hey i made it to the hall of fame. this time i won't sue majitzu.