Dan & Phil Part 35: knock knock, who’s there, i hate you

[alittledizzy]

PJ just tweeted this:

Could be related and mean he's hanging out with Dan, could also be unrelated and it could be PJ just being PJ?

Will we ever know? The last great mystery of this year.

obviously....

- Dirty weekend in Brighton with PJ.

I was right.

[starwillow]

PJ just tweeted this:

Could be related and mean he's hanging out with Dan, could also be unrelated and it could be PJ just being PJ?

Will we ever know? The last great mystery of this year.

obviously....

- Dirty weekend in Brighton with PJ.

I was right.

But... Dan is NOT on fire; therefore, Dan is the only one 100% ruled out from being with PJ!

[Catallena]

About Phil's used pronouns for Undertale:

I think Phil had a quite traditional upbringing and that the Lesters, while lovely, seem to be quite conservative in stuff like that? Like his mother's most embarrassing memory of him is little Phil trying on girl's clothes and his father thought giving him a cordless hammer drill as present was a solid idea. I mean it sure came in handy eventually (like that time the door handle fell off) but it's a weird thing to give your son who at that time had no real use for it and no interest in tools or DIY.. a daughter probably would've gotten a different present is what I'm saying. D&P even make fun of how ~manly~ it is in the original PINOF.

It's really shitty and upsetting if you're negatively affected by cisnormativity and gender roles but while I think Phil does genuinely try his best to be aware it just doesn't come natural to him at all so he screws up a lot because he's still very much stuck in the mindset he grew up in? I think Dan grew up in a more liberal family, like he might throw some serious shade towards them but from other stories he has told his parents seem quite open minded and probably not as inclined to strictly enforce gender roles.

[Diyes_Celine]

I don't really like posting whenever this is the topic. Although I am exposed to western culture I am still from the east. We have a different take on heteronormativity. I mean we don't scrutinize every single pronoun used coz English is not our first language. Also, my language's pronouns are all gender neutral.

I can see that the boys especially Dan go out of their way to be PC. They either correct themselves or explicity say things about gender roles. However, it doesn't really come naturally for Phil. He genuinely didn't mean to offend but he had a conservative upbringing. It is difficult to remove that from your system. Careless? Inconsiderate? I guess he was that.

Also, for me it is as if heteronormativity is often brought up because Deppy especially Phil are believed to be closeted. I read other youtubers' forums and this kind of topic is not heavily discussed even though some have committed the same mistake.

Or, Deppy's fans are more engaged so we can and will discuss these things.

[secretagentphan]

About Phil's used pronouns for Undertale:

I think Phil had a quite traditional upbringing and that the Lesters, while lovely, seem to be quite conservative in stuff like that? Like his mother's most embarrassing memory of him is little Phil trying on girl's clothes and his father thought giving him a cordless hammer drill as present was a solid idea. I mean it sure came in handy eventually (like that time the door handle fell off) but it's a weird thing to give your son who at that time had no real use for it and no interest in tools or DIY.. a daughter probably would've gotten a different present is what I'm saying. D&P even make fun of how ~manly~ it is in the original PINOF.

It's really shitty and upsetting if you're negatively affected by cisnormativity and gender roles but while I think Phil does genuinely try his best to be aware it just doesn't come natural to him at all so he screws up a lot because he's still very much stuck in the mindset he grew up in? I think Dan grew up in a more liberal family, like he might throw some serious shade towards them but from other stories he has told his parents seem quite open minded and probably not as inclined to strictly enforce gender roles.

As much as Dan very well may rightfully complain about his parents, I agree with this assumption. It is clear in his "Reacting to Childhood Videos" video that his parents/family encouraged and accepted his "feminine" behaviors (singing barbie girl in front of his whole family, wanting to be called Laura (?) ect.) Also in different stories he has told (dying his hair purple as a teen, getting his ears pierced, acting, ect.)

[Winston]

About Phil's used pronouns for Undertale:

I think Phil had a quite traditional upbringing and that the Lesters, while lovely, seem to be quite conservative in stuff like that? Like his mother's most embarrassing memory of him is little Phil trying on girl's clothes and his father thought giving him a cordless hammer drill as present was a solid idea. I mean it sure came in handy eventually (like that time the door handle fell off) but it's a weird thing to give your son who at that time had no real use for it and no interest in tools or DIY.. a daughter probably would've gotten a different present is what I'm saying. D&P even make fun of how ~manly~ it is in the original PINOF.

It's really shitty and upsetting if you're negatively affected by cisnormativity and gender roles but while I think Phil does genuinely try his best to be aware it just doesn't come natural to him at all so he screws up a lot because he's still very much stuck in the mindset he grew up in? I think Dan grew up in a more liberal family, like he might throw some serious shade towards them but from other stories he has told his parents seem quite open minded and probably not as inclined to strictly enforce gender roles.

As much as Dan very well may rightfully complain about his parents, I agree with this assumption. It is clear in his "Reacting to Childhood Videos" video that his parents/family encouraged and accepted his "feminine" behaviors (singing barbie girl in front of his whole family, wanting to be called Laura (?) ect.) Also in different stories he has told (dying his hair purple as a teen, getting his ears pierced, acting, ect.)

Not only is Phil's family more conservative as you said (although lovely) they seem to have a big influence in him, and how he acts. As in the no swearing and keeping his channel and apparently twitter PG. Dan's family although they could be more liberal in a sense also seemed to have less influence over him, he grew up on the internet so to say. So he learned a lot/still learns a lot from the same source. Phil also learns from the internet these days but his upbringing still effects him a lot. They also don't seem to have any nb friends or people they encounter on a regular basis, so it is not really in their everyday "language" if you will. So it may take Phil a little longer to relearn how to speak about people in gender neutral ways. They seem to be around mostly cis people. I mean we obviously don't know who all their friends are or how they all identify, but the ones we know of seem to be cis. That also goes for LGBTQ+, but that is a whole other discussion.

[secretagentphan]

About Phil's used pronouns for Undertale:

I think Phil had a quite traditional upbringing and that the Lesters, while lovely, seem to be quite conservative in stuff like that? Like his mother's most embarrassing memory of him is little Phil trying on girl's clothes and his father thought giving him a cordless hammer drill as present was a solid idea. I mean it sure came in handy eventually (like that time the door handle fell off) but it's a weird thing to give your son who at that time had no real use for it and no interest in tools or DIY.. a daughter probably would've gotten a different present is what I'm saying. D&P even make fun of how ~manly~ it is in the original PINOF.

It's really shitty and upsetting if you're negatively affected by cisnormativity and gender roles but while I think Phil does genuinely try his best to be aware it just doesn't come natural to him at all so he screws up a lot because he's still very much stuck in the mindset he grew up in? I think Dan grew up in a more liberal family, like he might throw some serious shade towards them but from other stories he has told his parents seem quite open minded and probably not as inclined to strictly enforce gender roles.

As much as Dan very well may rightfully complain about his parents, I agree with this assumption. It is clear in his "Reacting to Childhood Videos" video that his parents/family encouraged and accepted his "feminine" behaviors (singing barbie girl in front of his whole family, wanting to be called Laura (?) ect.) Also in different stories he has told (dying his hair purple as a teen, getting his ears pierced, acting, ect.)

Not only is Phil's family more conservative as you said (although lovely) they seem to have a big influence in him, and how he acts. As in the no swearing and keeping his channel and apparently twitter PG. Dan's family although they could be more liberal in a sense also seemed to have less influence over him, he grew up on the internet so to say. So he learned a lot/still learns a lot from the same source. Phil also learns from the internet these days but his upbringing still effects him a lot. They also don't seem to have any nb friends or people they encounter on a regular basis, so it is not really in their everyday "language" if you will. So it may take Phil a little longer to relearn how to speak about people in gender neutral ways. They seem to be around mostly cis people. I mean we obviously don't know who all their friends are or how they all identify, but the ones we know of seem to be cis. That also goes for LGBTQ+, but that is a whole other discussion.

Also even though they're not THAT far apart in age, 4.5ish years is a lot when it comes to that stuff. My sister and I are 5 years apart and it's crazy how much more progressive my school mates are compared to hers (more out gay and trans kids, ect.) Like Dan is 25 and Phil is almost 30 so it is probably easier for Dan to understand and get used to pronouns and such. PLUS Phil is the youngest of an older family at the age of 30, while Dan is younger and he is the oldest of a young family (his parents were young when they had him) which I assume affects their exposure to things too.

I'm far from judging Phil though, saying the wrong pronouns seems non progressive compared to the very liberal people we are exposed to on the internet, but the fact that Phil even tries to say the correct pronouns is miles ahead of most people under 20 even do in real life unfortunately.

[MoonPride]

Glad that the guys are now back together at home.

[sentinel]

Aww, how cute is that home is the apartment, together.

[CallMeAyana]

Home = Dan

[missemma]

Possible reasons Dan isn't tweeting:

- He's playing the genocide route of Undertale. He'll emerge sometime mid-January with a soul deadened by the amount of pixelated murder his hands have committed.
- He's with Phil on the Isle of Man.
- Romantic getaway with the secret girlfriend he met on his secret tinder profile.
- He's with Phil in London already, both of them graduated ninja school and can travel entirely undercover now.
- He's made a Christmas tradition of breaking his phone and can't get it fixed.
- The wifi/phone service is just epic bad this year.
- He's with Martyn on the Isle of Man. #dartyn
- He's too busy contemplating which IDB Awards categories to vote for, has no time for tweeting.
- They eloped on Boxing Day. Honeymoon in Japan for the new year.
- This year he's decided to focus on his holiday time on the true reason for the season: bonding with Colin the dog.

Hahaha, these made me snigger out loud at work, getting some weird looks now. I especially enjoyed the Christmas tradition of breaking his phone just because it's so real it could be true.

Dan always goes quiet around this time, he went to a spa last year if I remember correctly. I guess with gamingmas though it feels extra quiet because we are used to him tweeting so regularly.

I really hope they show us what they got each other for Christmas in a tweet or something soon because I'm nosey af. I especially want a photo of them at New Year, although if PJ sacks them off again for Emma Blackery then no photo for us, don'tdoitPJ.

I don't want this year to end because I am loving the Christmas header and emojis far too much for them to go back to normal

Also; don't forget to vote for the IDB Deppy 2016 awards because it'll be a fun way to end off 2016.

[MoonPride]

Pj's insta story is about how he wants to go back to Japan this year, maybe they will do a couples holiday to Japan with deppy, Felix and Marzia!?

[human]

Possible reasons Dan isn't tweeting:

- He's playing the genocide route of Undertale. He'll emerge sometime mid-January with a soul deadened by the amount of pixelated murder his hands have committed.
- He's with Phil on the Isle of Man.
- Romantic getaway with the secret girlfriend he met on his secret tinder profile.
- He's with Phil in London already, both of them graduated ninja school and can travel entirely undercover now.
- He's made a Christmas tradition of breaking his phone and can't get it fixed.
- The wifi/phone service is just epic bad this year.
- He's with Martyn on the Isle of Man. #dartyn
- He's too busy contemplating which IDB Awards categories to vote for, has no time for tweeting.
- They eloped on Boxing Day. Honeymoon in Japan for the new year.
- This year he's decided to focus on his holiday time on the true reason for the season: bonding with Colin the dog.

Hahaha, these made me snigger out loud at work, getting some weird looks now. I especially enjoyed the Christmas tradition of breaking his phone just because it's so real it could be true.

+1 person who sniggered out loud at work at these and is now getting weird looks lol.

I loved that he's with Martyn on the IOM. Cornelia is the new beard.

[papierklemmen]

kinda OT and not exactly relevant to anything, but i just remember seeing someone here wondering why no lgbt youtubers would express disapproval of deppy's ambiguous duo branding/activities and i thought that this old-ish reply from Jazza John to a comment (mentioning dan & phil's "ambiguity") under his video was interesting, as it's seemingly one of the few times i've seen someone other than a fan address it(?). i remember lurking here and the comment itself has already been discussed, but i don't think jazza's reply has been brought up, so if it has - soz, lurk moar etc.

the d&p part of the comment:

It's hard to tell a Youtuber's sexuality sometimes when they use click bait, fake relationships 4 views or if they are genuinely gay/bisexual/ pan etc.
Dan and Phil are the obvious original example. Their gimmick was hinting at bisexuality since day 1--as was the fantastic foursome, and we know Chris is bisexual. If Dan and Phil came out as bisexual would their gimmick for views then be ethical? Or would the years of lying overshadow the representation? Or, if they came out as 100% straight would all the shippers be livid about their new 2015 brand as a unit? I would not want to be backed into THAT corner. There is no winning... but they are making bank off the ambiguity, so I don't feel too much sympathy.

Tyler Oakley is obviously a shameless opportunist, and Troye's admitted that he got on the Tyler bandwagon to gain views/ recognition. Dan did the same with Phil. I don't think it's really about sexuality that unites everyone, but their United thirst.

jazza's reply:


full comment:

nothing to discuss here, really, but i just thought it was interesting he even chose to reply to the ambiguity part at all.
afaik this guy is not friends/doesn't know deppy personally, nor is he a big youtuber and i very much doubt he watches their videos, but at the same time he's the organizer of lgbt panels at SiTC, had tyler oakley, jimmy0010 and doug armstrong on his panels, he knows chris (mentioned him and his bisexuality in one of the replies too), he's friends with gary c, teoh and ben cook (although he mostly has twitter fights with ben cook, but can you blame him) who used to hang out with deppy back in the day and he keeps shading closeted uk youtubers in his videos.

[000dia000]

kinda OT and not exactly relevant to anything, but i just remember seeing someone here wondering why no lgbt youtubers would express disapproval of deppy's ambiguous duo branding/activities and i thought that this old-ish reply from Jazza John to a comment (mentioning dan & phil's "ambiguity") under his video was interesting, as it's seemingly one of the few times i've seen someone other than a fan address it(?). i remember lurking here and the comment itself has already been discussed, but i don't think jazza's reply has been brought up, so if it has - soz, lurk moar etc.

the d&p part of the comment:

It's hard to tell a Youtuber's sexuality sometimes when they use click bait, fake relationships 4 views or if they are genuinely gay/bisexual/ pan etc.
Dan and Phil are the obvious original example. Their gimmick was hinting at bisexuality since day 1--as was the fantastic foursome, and we know Chris is bisexual. If Dan and Phil came out as bisexual would their gimmick for views then be ethical? Or would the years of lying overshadow the representation? Or, if they came out as 100% straight would all the shippers be livid about their new 2015 brand as a unit? I would not want to be backed into THAT corner. There is no winning... but they are making bank off the ambiguity, so I don't feel too much sympathy.

Tyler Oakley is obviously a shameless opportunist, and Troye's admitted that he got on the Tyler bandwagon to gain views/ recognition. Dan did the same with Phil. I don't think it's really about sexuality that unites everyone, but their United thirst.

jazza's reply:


full comment:

nothing to discuss here, really, but i just thought it was interesting he even chose to reply to the ambiguity part at all.
afaik this guy is not friends/doesn't know deppy personally, nor is he a big youtuber and i very much doubt he watches their videos, but at the same time he's the organizer of lgbt panels at SiTC, had tyler oakley, jimmy0010 and doug armstrong on his panels, he knows chris (mentioned him and his bisexuality in one of the replies too), he's friends with gary c, teoh and ben cook (although he mostly has twitter fights with ben cook, but can you blame him) who used to hang out with deppy back in the day and he keeps shading closeted uk youtubers in his videos.

This is kind of interesting for me, because it makes me wonder how LGBT YouTubers currently view whatever they see of deppy or how they would feel if they were to come out. Sometimes I wonder if they know the "full story", whether they know some approximate knowledge by word of mouth, know something that isn't public knowledge, or even have an uninformed opinion based on ignorant YouTube comments? What reaction would they have if they were to come out? Would they be welcoming? Condescending?

This comment from him makes me personally uncomfortable-I notice that there seems to be some sort of malice or resentment from some LGBT YouTubers towards "closeted" YouTubers. Sure, queer baiting is terrible but "ambiguity" as in someone that is closeted getting put down is doing my head in. I may be projecting here but I notice there are many open LGBT people who shade those who are closeted/"ambiguous" and I just can't really respect that kind of treatment.

[simmehchan]

Looks like the hibernation theory was true

[gnostic]

kinda OT and not exactly relevant to anything, but i just remember seeing someone here wondering why no lgbt youtubers would express disapproval of deppy's ambiguous duo branding/activities and i thought that this old-ish reply from Jazza John to a comment (mentioning dan & phil's "ambiguity") under his video was interesting, as it's seemingly one of the few times i've seen someone other than a fan address it(?). i remember lurking here and the comment itself has already been discussed, but i don't think jazza's reply has been brought up, so if it has - soz, lurk moar etc.

the d&p part of the comment:

It's hard to tell a Youtuber's sexuality sometimes when they use click bait, fake relationships 4 views or if they are genuinely gay/bisexual/ pan etc.
Dan and Phil are the obvious original example. Their gimmick was hinting at bisexuality since day 1--as was the fantastic foursome, and we know Chris is bisexual. If Dan and Phil came out as bisexual would their gimmick for views then be ethical? Or would the years of lying overshadow the representation? Or, if they came out as 100% straight would all the shippers be livid about their new 2015 brand as a unit? I would not want to be backed into THAT corner. There is no winning... but they are making bank off the ambiguity, so I don't feel too much sympathy.

Tyler Oakley is obviously a shameless opportunist, and Troye's admitted that he got on the Tyler bandwagon to gain views/ recognition. Dan did the same with Phil. I don't think it's really about sexuality that unites everyone, but their United thirst.

jazza's reply:


full comment:

nothing to discuss here, really, but i just thought it was interesting he even chose to reply to the ambiguity part at all.
afaik this guy is not friends/doesn't know deppy personally, nor is he a big youtuber and i very much doubt he watches their videos, but at the same time he's the organizer of lgbt panels at SiTC, had tyler oakley, jimmy0010 and doug armstrong on his panels, he knows chris (mentioned him and his bisexuality in one of the replies too), he's friends with gary c, teoh and ben cook (although he mostly has twitter fights with ben cook, but can you blame him) who used to hang out with deppy back in the day and he keeps shading closeted uk youtubers in his videos.

This sounds sooo interesting but no browser is willing to open that reply image for me. Could I trouble you for a link or something? Thanks a ton

[flarequake]

Looks like the hibernation theory was true

He tweeted something very similar this time last year. He is a bear at heart

Edit: ooh, I'm a quiff now

[jesuisunèléve]

Looks like the hibernation theory was true

So he's bitching at Phil between animes, naps, and orders from Dominos.

At least we have proof of life.

[papierklemmen]

This sounds sooo interesting but no browser is willing to open that reply image for me. Could I trouble you for a link or something? Thanks a ton

lol i bet after reading all that without the reply image the reply itself will seem anticlimatic, because it's just one sentence.

"Making bank out of ambiguity makes me feel ick."

sorry for the hype

the link to the image and the video the comment was made under:

http://i.imgur.com/2jWaGmp.png

edit: lol i bet dan read all our theories and chose the one he preferred

[gnostic]

This sounds sooo interesting but no browser is willing to open that reply image for me. Could I trouble you for a link or something? Thanks a ton

lol i bet after reading all that without the reply image the reply itself will seem anticlimatic, because it's just one sentence.

"Making bank out of ambiguity makes me feel ick."

sorry for the hype

the link to the image and the video the comment was made under:

http://i.imgur.com/2jWaGmp.png

edit: lol i bet dan read all our theories and chose the one he preferred

Well at least John and I agree on something.

Thanks

[lurker]

kinda OT and not exactly relevant to anything, but i just remember seeing someone here wondering why no lgbt youtubers would express disapproval of deppy's ambiguous duo branding/activities and i thought that this old-ish reply from Jazza John to a comment (mentioning dan & phil's "ambiguity") under his video was interesting, as it's seemingly one of the few times i've seen someone other than a fan address it(?). i remember lurking here and the comment itself has already been discussed, but i don't think jazza's reply has been brought up, so if it has - soz, lurk moar etc.

the d&p part of the comment:

It's hard to tell a Youtuber's sexuality sometimes when they use click bait, fake relationships 4 views or if they are genuinely gay/bisexual/ pan etc.
Dan and Phil are the obvious original example. Their gimmick was hinting at bisexuality since day 1--as was the fantastic foursome, and we know Chris is bisexual. If Dan and Phil came out as bisexual would their gimmick for views then be ethical? Or would the years of lying overshadow the representation? Or, if they came out as 100% straight would all the shippers be livid about their new 2015 brand as a unit? I would not want to be backed into THAT corner. There is no winning... but they are making bank off the ambiguity, so I don't feel too much sympathy.

Tyler Oakley is obviously a shameless opportunist, and Troye's admitted that he got on the Tyler bandwagon to gain views/ recognition. Dan did the same with Phil. I don't think it's really about sexuality that unites everyone, but their United thirst.

jazza's reply:


full comment:

nothing to discuss here, really, but i just thought it was interesting he even chose to reply to the ambiguity part at all.
afaik this guy is not friends/doesn't know deppy personally, nor is he a big youtuber and i very much doubt he watches their videos, but at the same time he's the organizer of lgbt panels at SiTC, had tyler oakley, jimmy0010 and doug armstrong on his panels, he knows chris (mentioned him and his bisexuality in one of the replies too), he's friends with gary c, teoh and ben cook (although he mostly has twitter fights with ben cook, but can you blame him) who used to hang out with deppy back in the day and he keeps shading closeted uk youtubers in his videos.

This comment from him makes me personally uncomfortable-I notice that there seems to be some sort of malice or resentment from some LGBT YouTubers towards "closeted" YouTubers. Sure, queer baiting is terrible but "ambiguity" as in someone that is closeted getting put down is doing my head in. I may be projecting here but I notice there are many open LGBT people who shade those who are closeted/"ambiguous" and I just can't really respect that kind of treatment.

i feel similar about this - not only does the statement assume a general malevolent motivation for being "ambiguous", but i also find it weird that he chose to reply to a comment calling out several youtubers with their names. especially the original comment's point in discussing the "ethics" of coming out is uncomfortable to me as well, at the very least because it is solelely speaking from the perspective of an outsider (what implications would coming out have for the youtuber's audience). even if he didn't reply to these points, replying to the comment in general seems to be a general approval of the sentiment.

[alittledizzy]

kinda OT and not exactly relevant to anything, but i just remember seeing someone here wondering why no lgbt youtubers would express disapproval of deppy's ambiguous duo branding/activities and i thought that this old-ish reply from Jazza John to a comment (mentioning dan & phil's "ambiguity") under his video was interesting, as it's seemingly one of the few times i've seen someone other than a fan address it(?). i remember lurking here and the comment itself has already been discussed, but i don't think jazza's reply has been brought up, so if it has - soz, lurk moar etc.

the d&p part of the comment:

It's hard to tell a Youtuber's sexuality sometimes when they use click bait, fake relationships 4 views or if they are genuinely gay/bisexual/ pan etc.
Dan and Phil are the obvious original example. Their gimmick was hinting at bisexuality since day 1--as was the fantastic foursome, and we know Chris is bisexual. If Dan and Phil came out as bisexual would their gimmick for views then be ethical? Or would the years of lying overshadow the representation? Or, if they came out as 100% straight would all the shippers be livid about their new 2015 brand as a unit? I would not want to be backed into THAT corner. There is no winning... but they are making bank off the ambiguity, so I don't feel too much sympathy.

Tyler Oakley is obviously a shameless opportunist, and Troye's admitted that he got on the Tyler bandwagon to gain views/ recognition. Dan did the same with Phil. I don't think it's really about sexuality that unites everyone, but their United thirst.

jazza's reply:


full comment:

nothing to discuss here, really, but i just thought it was interesting he even chose to reply to the ambiguity part at all.
afaik this guy is not friends/doesn't know deppy personally, nor is he a big youtuber and i very much doubt he watches their videos, but at the same time he's the organizer of lgbt panels at SiTC, had tyler oakley, jimmy0010 and doug armstrong on his panels, he knows chris (mentioned him and his bisexuality in one of the replies too), he's friends with gary c, teoh and ben cook (although he mostly has twitter fights with ben cook, but can you blame him) who used to hang out with deppy back in the day and he keeps shading closeted uk youtubers in his videos.

This comment from him makes me personally uncomfortable-I notice that there seems to be some sort of malice or resentment from some LGBT YouTubers towards "closeted" YouTubers. Sure, queer baiting is terrible but "ambiguity" as in someone that is closeted getting put down is doing my head in. I may be projecting here but I notice there are many open LGBT people who shade those who are closeted/"ambiguous" and I just can't really respect that kind of treatment.

i feel similar about this - not only does the statement assume a general malevolent motivation for being "ambiguous", but i also find it weird that he chose to reply to a comment calling out several youtubers with their names. especially the original comment's point in discussing the "ethics" of coming out is uncomfortable to me as well, at the very least because it is solelely speaking from the perspective of an outsider (what implications would coming out have for the youtuber's audience). even if he didn't reply to these points, replying to the comment in general seems to be a general approval of the sentiment.

Agree with both of these statements.

Specifically the assumption of motive goes back to a point I made yesterday. Viewing youtubers only through a lens of their behavior being for or because of fans/money feels dehumanizing to me. Closeted people, including ones who as entertainers profit from a viewer base consuming their content, should be allowed to come out at their own rate and for a lot of people that means getting comfortable being partially open before you're fully there (or never fully coming out). In order to avoid this, it would basically mean no youtuber is allowed to be closeted unless they're convincingly 100% so because otherwise they're potentially making money off of ambiguity.

[papierklemmen]

if you've seen his video on closeted youtubers, you know this guy tends to have quite hardcore opinions, lol. he even disagreed with tyler who said everyone has the right to come out when they're ready but I think he mostly has a problem with youtubers who pretend to be straight (who the hell are those youtubers anyway?) . in this case it's not clear if he himself thinks dp are hiding a relationship or if they're not and are ambiguous for views, or he just wanted to mention it generally but I find it interesting that he replied to the comment when it basically had nothing to do with the video.
[offtopic]i also find it interesting that teoh/mrtinoforever wrote an article on the panel and the "closeted youtubers" video basically quoting it word for word, except he also added a mention of youtubers who "use Queer-baiting tactics as a distraction; by appearing to joke about being LGBTQ+, they trick audiences into assuming they are straight." which was never mentioned by jazza or gary c. like, who the hell are those youtubers?? was he talking about shane (it was 2014)? how would he know about him? is there someone who does that? its clearly not deppy because they never joked about being gay. so many unresolved mysteries... [/offtopic]

[sentinel]

he lives