Dan & Phil Part 49: Don't curl, quiff

[nøx]

oversized things feel safe, jumper looks safe, i dig it (v important input)

edit: i keep making sad top posts, yikes

[droopy]

I'm assuming we're talking about the jumper he wore during their Vidcon story? I like it, I think it looks good, I just find it funny how often he wears it. But I know the feeling - when I get a new piece of clothing that's cute AND comfortable, I definitely pay more attention to it.

[Ablissa]

Apparently they had a double date movie night with Bryony and Wirrow

@jumper thing: I think it looks really good on Dan! I don't mind him wearing it often. Same as droopy, if I find a piece of clothing I really like I tend to wear it a lot for a while.

[lurker]

i like the jumper because it reminds me of a starfleet uniform

[droopy]

i like the jumper because it reminds me of a starfleet uniform

omg ur right

(also gonna note that Phil seems to have picked up Dan's tendency to abbreviate "very")

[autumnhearth]

aw i love that jumper partly because of the interesting colours but also because i do think oversized things are cute as heck; see, part in the new spider man film ehere tom holland was wearing a big ol oversuzed jumper aww

I kinda fail to see the cute when it hides something beautiful. But maybe it's just not my aesthetic. I guess something oversized that fell over one shoulder and showed a collarbone - think Flashdance - would be really cute.

you collarbone people are weird

See I like the colors (it reminds me of Guinness). It's the boxiness I dislike. The oversized black and white striped jumper looks nice and soft and drapey, but the black and tan one looks bulky and stiff? Turning the shoulders into rectangles (like a hockey player). I even prefer the potato sack to it. Oh and I do love the bamboo. So I'm not anti-oversized sweaters, but I agree with Whommel (and to think, I didn't even appreciate collarbones until Dan.) But! I am glad that Dan likes it, I'm glad that others appreciate it and I'm not against people wearing things frequently or out of comfort. I can see that lurker, it's just they were a lot sleeker. Maybe I just don't like Dan looking bulky? Shit, now I feel guilty...

^^Aww that's nice! From Phil's liveshow it sounded like they would be going with others, as he mentioned not wanting to be the friend that canceled because they were sick. I hope he's feeling okay.

[alittledizzy]

i like the jumper because it reminds me of a starfleet uniform

... okay maybe I'm slightly more sold on it now.

[Catallena]

I've criticized a lot of Dan's fashion choices, but I actually really like his current fave piece of clothing. Makes him look cuddly.

[pilotlight]

I like the sweater but just looking at it in the summer makes me feel uncomfortably warm. As long as he's comfy in it, though.

[sparkle]

I like the sweater but just looking at it in the summer makes me feel uncomfortably warm. As long as he's comfy in it, though.

maybe it's so big because it contains its own water based cooling system

[pilotlight]

I like the sweater but just looking at it in the summer makes me feel uncomfortably warm. As long as he's comfy in it, though.

maybe it's so big because it contains its own water based cooling system

[autumnhearth]

Good theory sparkle

[offtopic]Target now carries Tim Tams and they were on sale, so I have now experienced my first Tim Tam Slam. Thanks Deps! Try new things. [/offtopic]

[MythicalPinkTrashCan]

About them hyping up videos that aren't hypable.

Is there a chance Dan is talking about how a video is fun, and exciting, but he is thinking about some sort of feeling he had from doing something before or after? Or some moment that was really funny to them, but ended up being cut?

[alittledizzy]

About them hyping up videos that aren't hypable.

Is there a chance Dan is talking about how a video is fun, and exciting, but he is thinking about some sort of feeling he had from doing something before or after? Or some moment that was really funny to them, but ended up being cut?

I think that could be some of it. If Dan genuinely liked filming the google video, if he was in a good mood that day, if he thought the video was funny, his mood in general could elevate that video to a higher status in his mind than perhaps translated to us. We judge based on entertainment value to us as content consumers; for him it could basically amount to just having had a really good day at work.

[Susanisnotafish]

Good theory sparkle

[offtopic]Target now carries Tim Tams they were on sale, so I have now experienced my first Tim Tam Slam. Thanks Deps! Try new things. [/offtopic]

I'll have to check out Target. We've been buying them at Kroger for a while now but pretty expensive. I prefer the dark chocolate variety and didn't really care for the slam -- too mushy. My daughter thinks I'm the only one who buys foods they mention.

Also I agree with Mythicalpinktrashcan and Dizzy.

[Ilovethemohyesido]

Apparently they had a double date movie night with Bryony and Wirrow

@jumper thing: I think it looks really good on Dan! I don't mind him wearing it often. Same as droopy, if I find a piece of clothing I really like I tend to wear it a lot for a while.

Phil did make it sound on his LS that he was going with friends, since he mentioned he didnt want to be that friend who cancel because he got sick. I'm happy it was with them, they seem to be their closest friends.

[karma_yeah]

About them hyping up videos that aren't hypable.

Is there a chance Dan is talking about how a video is fun, and exciting, but he is thinking about some sort of feeling he had from doing something before or after? Or some moment that was really funny to them, but ended up being cut?

I think you make a very good point, and I'd love to hear his take on this. Certainly the process of the creation, and any associated positive and/or negative experiences and emotions, would influence the creator's perception of the finished product. The other side of the coin is how something is perceived. We've seen amongst ourselves how differently each consumer perceives a product, because we each view something through our own personal experiences and emotions.

Dan (and Phil) clearly takes what he does very seriously, and takes it to heart. I can't imagine what reading comments must be like after posting a video. At the same time, I would think it would be critical to read through them to try to get a sense of how videos are received.

It would probably help to learn to compartmentalize, which I suspect he/they have, but I know I could never be a youtuber.

I can also totally relate to all the over-thinking everything, trying to make things perfect, etc. I'd be lucky to ever produce a second video, let alone upload a couple of times a month for years. So to them!

Then again, if i needed to do it to eat and pay bills, I guess I'd find a way, but I would live in a constant state of self doubt, (which I do anyway so . . . guess I'll keep my day job)

[alittledizzy]

There's another thread for phanart, but since this one is so damn gorgeous and so relevant to the thread title:

[Susanisnotafish]

There's another thread for phanart, but since this one is so damn gorgeous and so relevant to the thread title:

He looks so good like that! Especially with the glasses! I thought he would look older than with the fringe but he looks younger bc he doesn't look like he's trying to look young. I think it will happen someday and I'm willing to wait. Would look nice like that if they ever do a formal wedding. Or if Martyn gets married formally and Phil is in it.

[fancybum]

So I’ve been thinking a lot about the YOI/kiss thing from Dan's ls (completely removed from the “validity” of his line of questioning- as far as differing cultural importance/context/blah blah- that's not relevant here) and how it felt different compared to his previous mentions of the show (or of any show…? though full disclosure: if he talks a lot about a show I don’t care about, I just kind of zone out until he’s done so it’s possible I’ve missed completely similar moments. maybe). It was pointed, it was deliberate, it was a genuine question and concern. To me, it felt like something a teeny bit further than his usual way of expressing interest/investment in things because of like, the abs involved. And there was no potentially vague (..for those that want to consider it vague..) wording that ~for reasons~ is often just brushed aside as a complete joke or pandering, like nothing is coming to me that he’s said that quite reaches the meaning behind “why don’t they kiss?” Other mentions of animes have been said in a way like, ‘this show is offering hot guys in a pool and I will gladly accept it, I am but a removed viewer who appreciates some well defined abs, so thanks Japan’ whereas this little discussion, that he brought up himself with no kiss-specific prompting, was more ‘pretty dudes skating, ok thanks Japan, that’s cool.. but maybe they could kiss, too? Maybe make the relationship (between these two fictional. characters., don't start) a bit more clearly defined, a bit more.. validating? to match my investment in them together? By… kissing?’ Like it’s a little step beyond just being a passive viewer eating up the ~aesthetics on offer. Also, very clearly not a jokey and relatable desire, he was asking a genuine question, bothered by the apparent caginess of the show (again, reasons for that are beyond irrelevant rn thx) in making it 100% clear.

(Disclaimer because I don't trust anybody: no part of this was said with any agreement that previous mentions were said only as jokes in a 'mm pretty boys with abs and angst, lol yes that's hilarious and relatable for the audience even though I personally am but A Straight' because that is in fact just some rotting garbage trying to be passed off as a valid perspective).

So anyway, somewhere in all of that is the main thought on my mind: what would actually happen if Dan just finally got too frustrated with all of the PAINFULLY STUPID PEOPLE OUT THERE and literally said something in a liveshow like, “when I was in [UK equiv of elementary school] and realized I had a crush on a boy for the first time [blah blah some kind of anecdote relating to a fan question or some other train of thought]” or just anything that was a very clearly stated form of ‘here is me point blank expressing to you a story of my experience as a queer person at some point in my life, or ongoing experience, etc’, still without it being an Official Coming Out in the kind of way that YT is familiar with-- just something very casual and nbd as part of a larger conversation (but would still amount to beating the people who just want to hum loudly and cover their eyes and ears over the head with a rainbow umbrella to make them Fucking Get It Finally), what would change?

It’s interesting to be thinking about this as I’m a huge perpetuator of the “answering one question opens the question of the other on a grander scale, so best to avoid both” line of thinking, but is that just giving everybody (Dan/Phil and viewers alike) far too little credit? Like: who cares if putting to rest the sexuality speculation adds more attention to the relationship speculation, because it is and always has been an open question, and always will be until a definitive answer is provided. So what would a momentary spike in interest (where so much already exists) really amount to? Maybe it’s completely unnecessary to conflate the two to the degree I’ve tended to (and before anybody attempts to be annoying, I’m not saying them screaming their not-straight sexualities from rooftops for the people in the back would confirm their relationship, but that them opening up that part of their lives (directly answering the question) would direct viewers to the other supposed unanswered question that hounds them: aka ‘why answer one and not the other HMM’ because fans do tend to see these things as a package deal, I just want to be clear that I’m not agreeing with that, just acknowledging it's a thing).

I guess it's possible that some part of that is an aspect of their thought process(es), but maybe it literally just amounts to ‘it’s nobody’s business but ours’ and all these other countless reasons and rationalizations are doing way more than necessary to attempt to ‘justify’ the simple needs of two people for their privacy in a weird public position. And I just mean privacy pertaining to relationship status and any definitions beyond ‘just friends’, things that have no need to be shared if they don’t want to share them. Because see, here’s the thing: they’re sharing other things. They’ve made/They’re making it clear (or trying to oh my gooooood @ ‘he’s being relatable tee hee’ people with their heads in the sand, who hurt you?) that they’re not straight, and I’m wondering if they just want to be less closed off about that in general, just for its own sake (and kind of re-balance the scales of self-expression that were set around the 2012 era that people still won’t fucking let go of even though D&P themselves have long moved on), or if there’s an actual end game they’re working toward. Like are they wading out to a chosen and defined destination or simply widening the walls of the (self-/societally-)imposed cage they’ve been pacing around for so long. Just for more space, just that.

And yes, they’re very meticulous people, very careful and deliberate in how they go about things that involve viewer perception and engagement (like.. dropping hints for months to set us up for their move, as a recent example), but that level of meticulousness can’t possibly be applied to 100% of everything they do that we see, so it can sometimes be a blurry line of what they’re doing for masterminding purposes and what they’re just doing as normal people trying to navigate their lives in a way most comfortable for themselves (with the added stress of more public scrutiny and judgement than the average person thrown in along the way). Trying to attribute everything, all actions and intents, to a singular grand plan just strips them of humanity and the right that we all have to stumble drunkenly in the dark not knowing what the fuck we’re doing but trying to find our way. Like now- what was I talking about- right: Dan (for example) being (even.more.) crystal fucking clear in a casual way in a liveshow: what would change? I'm thinking.. not much. Where even are we right now? Because listen, I disagree with the opinion that losing viewers (inherent in this thought: disgusting trashbag homophobic viewers that nobody wants or needs to begin with) is THAT high on the list of their ‘Reasons Why I Don’t Want To Label Myself Or My Relationship On YT’ and if idiotic homophobes have been watching and enjoying everything they’re seeing and hearing from D&P (because… howwwww) but would suddenly rebel if Dan said ‘hey fun fact I’m not just joking about every single fucking thing I say you fucking idiot’, it would be no great loss. And I’m not sure those people can really exist, but if they do, they simply cannot exist in large enough number$ that would overwhelmingly dictate how D&P choose to conduct themselves. And also: fuck them anyway (uh, the homophobe-types, not D&P).

D&P are pros by now at ignoring things they don’t want to engage with, just letting whatever it is die down on its own with nary a peep from either of them (in most cases). So if he were to do something like the 'first boy crush' example, it would be enough (one would hope..) to wake up the questionably-minded people but also would just be another drop in the 'hey I'm not straight btw lol' bucket that still wouldn't be some kind of marked coming out situation. And I'm not saying I want him to do that, he can do whatever he wants, I'm more just curious if we're at a point where something like that would register as an extremely big deal, a normal-sized deal, or just another liveshow, and along with any of those options, if it would matter that it shined a brighter light on his relationship with Phil. And if it did, to what degree would that even matter if they just continued to ignore it like they do anyway? Maybe nothing is as big of a deal as we tend to think it is, and maybe D&P are doing a lot less hand-wringing over some of these things than we are.

Basically I have absolutely no conclusions to draw here other than: they’re not 24/7 calculating masterminds for good or for evil (because wouldn't that be impressive on an otherworldly level). And though I am still wondering if there’s a planned end game of some sort for how they publicly handle their personal lives, not everything they do and say Means Something beyond exactly what they did and said. It’s actually not that difficult to just give people the credit of taking them at their words.
..#protip

Actually on topic: that. art. is. breath. take. ing.

[MaggieW]

re: Dan's Sweater I really like it, I think he looks good on it and it seems really comfortable. I understand when you buy something you really like and you want to use it always, specially if it's comfy and cute, I could wear oversized sweaters all the time.

re: Fanart omg that looks AMAZING. I wish I could draw like that, I love it.

[dontpanic]

Everything everyone said about YOI was very interesting and brought up points I never would have thought of, which changed a lot of my YOI opinions. That said, I felt (and still feel a little bit) the same as what dan was getting at, but I'll throw my unnecessary thoughts under a spoiler because we've moved on by now

I don't watch anime I only watched YOI because of the EXTREME hype and afterwards I felt...eh. To me, yoi teased a same sex relationship without actually giving anything. If you're invested in the show outside of just watching it, it's easy to just say "it was obviously a kiss because the creator said so!" but like, I don't care enough to go seek out more information on the show, all I did was watch it and feel let down because the hype made me think there was this grand example of a 3 dimensional lgbtq character(s), but from what I could tell no one was explicitly revealed to be lgbtq. It felt like a shippier version of the already shippy Free!.

Again, I just watched the show once and that was it, I didn't go read more about it or think too deeply about it--if I had, I would probably agree that it's not just another show pandering to shippers without providing actual representation. I feel like Dan's in the same boat on this one, especially since he had hundreds of thousands of tweets telling him to watch this wonderful show filled with wonderful representation all around and, at strictly face value the show doesn't provide what everyone promised. It's a good anime, but like a lot of things 'hype' can make it be a let down.

but anyway, I love your post alittledizzy! I don't have much to add except I especially agree with your closing remarks. deppy are the masters of long-term planning, but it feels like the way they treat their sexualities/potential relationship doesn't have an end-game. To me it feels more "this is how we handle it, maybe we can open more up about our sexuality/relationship in the future we'll decide later." and for why dan isn't even a tad more explicit re: his sexuality, I've always thought he's scared to be known as "A LGBT Youtuber" rather than "a youtuber who is LGBT." So much of what deppy do gets blown out of proportion, dan could say in a liveshow "I'm about as straight as my hair" and it could turn into "A Huge Thing" where his subscribers spend weeks talking about how he's "officially" out instead of caring about whatever new content they've dropped, and then maybe tumblr freaks out, the twitter phandom does that thing where they tweet other youtubers about big deppy things, other youtubers shane are like "omg I knew it," the unicorn-something website would write an "article" about it like it did about him freaking painting his nails...

tldr deppy try SO hard to avoid doing something that becomes "A Huge Thing," they probably are overly cautious because they don't know and I think, even now with all the male attraction mentions, if one of them gave themself a label to their sexuality it would still be a big deal and cause quite a stir.


also quick question, has dan ever said he's straight? He's said he's not gay about 100 times but I can't find anything where he's explicitly said he's not straight. I swear I thought there was a liveshow where he said he's straight but I can't find it.

edit: I so relate with the "wearing the same oversized sweater at least twice a week even when it's hot." forget representation of my sexuality, this is the representation I need in my life

[Susanisnotafish]

So I’ve been thinking a lot about the YOI/kiss thing from Dan's ls (completely removed from the “validity” of his line of questioning- as far as differing cultural importance/context/blah blah- that's not relevant here) and how it felt different compared to his previous mentions of the show (or of any show…? though full disclosure: if he talks a lot about a show I don’t care about, I just kind of zone out until he’s done so it’s possible I’ve missed completely similar moments. maybe). It was pointed, it was deliberate, it was a genuine question and concern. To me, it felt like something a teeny bit further than his usual way of expressing interest/investment in things because of like, the abs involved. And there was no potentially vague (..for those that want to consider it vague..) wording that ~for reasons~ is often just brushed aside as a complete joke or pandering, like nothing is coming to me that he’s said that quite reaches the meaning behind “why don’t they kiss?” Other mentions of animes have been said in a way like, ‘this show is offering hot guys in a pool and I will gladly accept it, I am but a removed viewer who appreciates some well defined abs, so thanks Japan’ whereas this little discussion, that he brought up himself with no kiss-specific prompting, was more ‘pretty dudes skating, ok thanks Japan, that’s cool.. but maybe they could kiss, too? Maybe make the relationship (between these two fictional. characters., don't start) a bit more clearly defined, a bit more.. validating? to match my investment in them together? By… kissing?’ Like it’s a little step beyond just being a passive viewer eating up the ~aesthetics on offer. Also, very clearly not a jokey and relatable desire, he was asking a genuine question, bothered by the apparent caginess of the show (again, reasons for that are beyond irrelevant rn thx) in making it 100% clear.

(Disclaimer because I don't trust anybody: no part of this was said with any agreement that previous mentions were said only as jokes in a 'mm pretty boys with abs and angst, lol yes that's hilarious and relatable for the audience even though I personally am but A Straight' because that is in fact just some rotting garbage trying to be passed off as a valid perspective).

So anyway, somewhere in all of that is the main thought on my mind: what would actually happen if Dan just finally got too frustrated with all of the PAINFULLY STUPID PEOPLE OUT THERE and literally said something in a liveshow like, “when I was in [UK equiv of elementary school] and realized I had a crush on a boy for the first time [blah blah some kind of anecdote relating to a fan question or some other train of thought]” or just anything that was a very clearly stated form of ‘here is me point blank expressing to you a story of my experience as a queer person at some point in my life, or ongoing experience, etc’, still without it being an Official Coming Out in the kind of way that YT is familiar with-- just something very casual and nbd as part of a larger conversation (but would still amount to beating the people who just want to hum loudly and cover their eyes and ears over the head with a rainbow umbrella to make them Fucking Get It Finally), what would change?

It’s interesting to be thinking about this as I’m a huge perpetuator of the “answering one question opens the question of the other on a grander scale, so best to avoid both” line of thinking, but is that just giving everybody (Dan/Phil and viewers alike) far too little credit? Like: who cares if putting to rest the sexuality speculation adds more attention to the relationship speculation, because it is and always has been an open question, and always will be until a definitive answer is provided. So what would a momentary spike in interest (where so much already exists) really amount to? Maybe it’s completely unnecessary to conflate the two to the degree I’ve tended to (and before anybody attempts to be annoying, I’m not saying them screaming their not-straight sexualities from rooftops for the people in the back would confirm their relationship, but that them opening up that part of their lives (directly answering the question) would direct viewers to the other supposed unanswered question that hounds them: aka ‘why answer one and not the other HMM’ because fans do tend to see these things as a package deal, I just want to be clear that I’m not agreeing with that, just acknowledging it's a thing).

I guess it's possible that some part of that is an aspect of their thought process(es), but maybe it literally just amounts to ‘it’s nobody’s business but ours’ and all these other countless reasons and rationalizations are doing way more than necessary to attempt to ‘justify’ the simple needs of two people for their privacy in a weird public position. And I just mean privacy pertaining to relationship status and any definitions beyond ‘just friends’, things that have no need to be shared if they don’t want to share them. Because see, here’s the thing: they’re sharing other things. They’ve made/They’re making it clear (or trying to oh my gooooood @ ‘he’s being relatable tee hee’ people with their heads in the sand, who hurt you?) that they’re not straight, and I’m wondering if they just want to be less closed off about that in general, just for its own sake (and kind of re-balance the scales of self-expression that were set around the 2012 era that people still won’t fucking let go of even though D&P themselves have long moved on), or if there’s an actual end game they’re working toward. Like are they wading out to a chosen and defined destination or simply widening the walls of the (self-/societally-)imposed cage they’ve been pacing around for so long. Just for more space, just that.

And yes, they’re very meticulous people, very careful and deliberate in how they go about things that involve viewer perception and engagement (like.. dropping hints for months to set us up for their move, as a recent example), but that level of meticulousness can’t possibly be applied to 100% of everything they do that we see, so it can sometimes be a blurry line of what they’re doing for masterminding purposes and what they’re just doing as normal people trying to navigate their lives in a way most comfortable for themselves (with the added stress of more public scrutiny and judgement than the average person thrown in along the way). Trying to attribute everything, all actions and intents, to a singular grand plan just strips them of humanity and the right that we all have to stumble drunkenly in the dark not knowing what the fuck we’re doing but trying to find our way. Like now- what was I talking about- right: Dan (for example) being (even.more.) crystal fucking clear in a casual way in a liveshow: what would change? I'm thinking.. not much. Where even are we right now? Because listen, I disagree with the opinion that losing viewers (inherent in this thought: disgusting trashbag homophobic viewers that nobody wants or needs to begin with) is THAT high on the list of their ‘Reasons Why I Don’t Want To Label Myself Or My Relationship On YT’ and if idiotic homophobes have been watching and enjoying everything they’re seeing and hearing from D&P (because… howwwww) but would suddenly rebel if Dan said ‘hey fun fact I’m not just joking about every single fucking thing I say you fucking idiot’, it would be no great loss. And I’m not sure those people can really exist, but if they do, they simply cannot exist in large enough number$ that would overwhelmingly dictate how D&P choose to conduct themselves. And also: fuck them anyway (uh, the homophobe-types, not D&P).

D&P are pros by now at ignoring things they don’t want to engage with, just letting whatever it is die down on its own with nary a peep from either of them (in most cases). So if he were to do something like the 'first boy crush' example, it would be enough (one would hope..) to wake up the questionably-minded people but also would just be another drop in the 'hey I'm not straight btw lol' bucket that still wouldn't be some kind of marked coming out situation. And I'm not saying I want him to do that, he can do whatever he wants, I'm more just curious if we're at a point where something like that would register as an extremely big deal, a normal-sized deal, or just another liveshow, and along with any of those options, if it would matter that it shined a brighter light on his relationship with Phil. And if it did, to what degree would that even matter if they just continued to ignore it like they do anyway? Maybe nothing is as big of a deal as we tend to think it is, and maybe D&P are doing a lot less hand-wringing over some of these things than we are.

Basically I have absolutely no conclusions to draw here other than: they’re not 24/7 calculating masterminds for good or for evil (because wouldn't that be impressive on an otherworldly level). And though I am still wondering if there’s a planned end game of some sort for how they publicly handle their personal lives, not everything they do and say Means Something beyond exactly what they did and said. It’s actually not that difficult to just give people the credit of taking them at their words.
..#protip

I loved your post! Things I have also thought about/agree with/want to address are bolded. I wish I were more articulate, less afraid of being strongly opinionated, and had more time, but the main thing I wanted to say is that I read a fic today by InternetTakeover that depicts deppy having a plan about revealing their fictional (allegedly) dating relationship and how that goes for them as they set their plan in motion. It's on ao3 called "People stare cause we look so Good Together" Http://Archiveofourown.org/works/7091176 It refers to Dan having carried out a similar strategy for "coming out" as not straight. I know the difference between fiction and reality, but this fic really is a fantastic thought exercise. The author seems to have incredible insight into what could be going through deppy' minds.

[fondsmiles]

So I’ve been thinking a lot about the YOI/kiss thing from Dan's ls (completely removed from the “validity” of his line of questioning- as far as differing cultural importance/context/blah blah- that's not relevant here) and how it felt different compared to his previous mentions of the show (or of any show…? though full disclosure: if he talks a lot about a show I don’t care about, I just kind of zone out until he’s done so it’s possible I’ve missed completely similar moments. maybe). It was pointed, it was deliberate, it was a genuine question and concern. To me, it felt like something a teeny bit further than his usual way of expressing interest/investment in things because of like, the abs involved. And there was no potentially vague (..for those that want to consider it vague..) wording that ~for reasons~ is often just brushed aside as a complete joke or pandering, like nothing is coming to me that he’s said that quite reaches the meaning behind “why don’t they kiss?” Other mentions of animes have been said in a way like, ‘this show is offering hot guys in a pool and I will gladly accept it, I am but a removed viewer who appreciates some well defined abs, so thanks Japan’ whereas this little discussion, that he brought up himself with no kiss-specific prompting, was more ‘pretty dudes skating, ok thanks Japan, that’s cool.. but maybe they could kiss, too? Maybe make the relationship (between these two fictional. characters., don't start) a bit more clearly defined, a bit more.. validating? to match my investment in them together? By… kissing?’ Like it’s a little step beyond just being a passive viewer eating up the ~aesthetics on offer. Also, very clearly not a jokey and relatable desire, he was asking a genuine question, bothered by the apparent caginess of the show (again, reasons for that are beyond irrelevant rn thx) in making it 100% clear.

(Disclaimer because I don't trust anybody: no part of this was said with any agreement that previous mentions were said only as jokes in a 'mm pretty boys with abs and angst, lol yes that's hilarious and relatable for the audience even though I personally am but A Straight' because that is in fact just some rotting garbage trying to be passed off as a valid perspective).

So anyway, somewhere in all of that is the main thought on my mind: what would actually happen if Dan just finally got too frustrated with all of the PAINFULLY STUPID PEOPLE OUT THERE and literally said something in a liveshow like, “when I was in [UK equiv of elementary school] and realized I had a crush on a boy for the first time [blah blah some kind of anecdote relating to a fan question or some other train of thought]” or just anything that was a very clearly stated form of ‘here is me point blank expressing to you a story of my experience as a queer person at some point in my life, or ongoing experience, etc’, still without it being an Official Coming Out in the kind of way that YT is familiar with-- just something very casual and nbd as part of a larger conversation (but would still amount to beating the people who just want to hum loudly and cover their eyes and ears over the head with a rainbow umbrella to make them Fucking Get It Finally), what would change?

It’s interesting to be thinking about this as I’m a huge perpetuator of the “answering one question opens the question of the other on a grander scale, so best to avoid both” line of thinking, but is that just giving everybody (Dan/Phil and viewers alike) far too little credit? Like: who cares if putting to rest the sexuality speculation adds more attention to the relationship speculation, because it is and always has been an open question, and always will be until a definitive answer is provided. So what would a momentary spike in interest (where so much already exists) really amount to? Maybe it’s completely unnecessary to conflate the two to the degree I’ve tended to (and before anybody attempts to be annoying, I’m not saying them screaming their not-straight sexualities from rooftops for the people in the back would confirm their relationship, but that them opening up that part of their lives (directly answering the question) would direct viewers to the other supposed unanswered question that hounds them: aka ‘why answer one and not the other HMM’ because fans do tend to see these things as a package deal, I just want to be clear that I’m not agreeing with that, just acknowledging it's a thing).

I guess it's possible that some part of that is an aspect of their thought process(es), but maybe it literally just amounts to ‘it’s nobody’s business but ours’ and all these other countless reasons and rationalizations are doing way more than necessary to attempt to ‘justify’ the simple needs of two people for their privacy in a weird public position. And I just mean privacy pertaining to relationship status and any definitions beyond ‘just friends’, things that have no need to be shared if they don’t want to share them. Because see, here’s the thing: they’re sharing other things. They’ve made/They’re making it clear (or trying to oh my gooooood @ ‘he’s being relatable tee hee’ people with their heads in the sand, who hurt you?) that they’re not straight, and I’m wondering if they just want to be less closed off about that in general, just for its own sake (and kind of re-balance the scales of self-expression that were set around the 2012 era that people still won’t fucking let go of even though D&P themselves have long moved on), or if there’s an actual end game they’re working toward. Like are they wading out to a chosen and defined destination or simply widening the walls of the (self-/societally-)imposed cage they’ve been pacing around for so long. Just for more space, just that.

And yes, they’re very meticulous people, very careful and deliberate in how they go about things that involve viewer perception and engagement (like.. dropping hints for months to set us up for their move, as a recent example), but that level of meticulousness can’t possibly be applied to 100% of everything they do that we see, so it can sometimes be a blurry line of what they’re doing for masterminding purposes and what they’re just doing as normal people trying to navigate their lives in a way most comfortable for themselves (with the added stress of more public scrutiny and judgement than the average person thrown in along the way). Trying to attribute everything, all actions and intents, to a singular grand plan just strips them of humanity and the right that we all have to stumble drunkenly in the dark not knowing what the fuck we’re doing but trying to find our way. Like now- what was I talking about- right: Dan (for example) being (even.more.) crystal fucking clear in a casual way in a liveshow: what would change? I'm thinking.. not much. Where even are we right now? Because listen, I disagree with the opinion that losing viewers (inherent in this thought: disgusting trashbag homophobic viewers that nobody wants or needs to begin with) is THAT high on the list of their ‘Reasons Why I Don’t Want To Label Myself Or My Relationship On YT’ and if idiotic homophobes have been watching and enjoying everything they’re seeing and hearing from D&P (because… howwwww) but would suddenly rebel if Dan said ‘hey fun fact I’m not just joking about every single fucking thing I say you fucking idiot’, it would be no great loss. And I’m not sure those people can really exist, but if they do, they simply cannot exist in large enough number$ that would overwhelmingly dictate how D&P choose to conduct themselves. And also: fuck them anyway (uh, the homophobe-types, not D&P).

D&P are pros by now at ignoring things they don’t want to engage with, just letting whatever it is die down on its own with nary a peep from either of them (in most cases). So if he were to do something like the 'first boy crush' example, it would be enough (one would hope..) to wake up the questionably-minded people but also would just be another drop in the 'hey I'm not straight btw lol' bucket that still wouldn't be some kind of marked coming out situation. And I'm not saying I want him to do that, he can do whatever he wants, I'm more just curious if we're at a point where something like that would register as an extremely big deal, a normal-sized deal, or just another liveshow, and along with any of those options, if it would matter that it shined a brighter light on his relationship with Phil. And if it did, to what degree would that even matter if they just continued to ignore it like they do anyway? Maybe nothing is as big of a deal as we tend to think it is, and maybe D&P are doing a lot less hand-wringing over some of these things than we are.

Basically I have absolutely no conclusions to draw here other than: they’re not 24/7 calculating masterminds for good or for evil (because wouldn't that be impressive on an otherworldly level). And though I am still wondering if there’s a planned end game of some sort for how they publicly handle their personal lives, not everything they do and say Means Something beyond exactly what they did and said. It’s actually not that difficult to just give people the credit of taking them at their words.
..#protip

Actually on topic: that. art. is. breath. take. ing.

I like a lot of the points you brought up in this. I'm gonna summarize what I took from it (hope you don't mind):
- deppy do things for themselves, not just because they're having a bigger phandom plan (even though they do that too), and the privacy situation could be exactly that
- maybe a side-comment in a liveshow that (more) explicitly states queer experiences wouldn't change much; it would drive some away that are quite blind now but probably wouldn't matter much
All your points are so good though (about what might or might not happen, what they could be thinking- you're very considerate and thorough in these thoughts you've shared, thank you)

I often think about how it must be to navigate the space between doing what is right for you, and sharing planned-through things because of your career. I imagine they must be quite good at that by now. But especially with coming out things, individually or relationship-wise, I sometimes wonder where they're at on that. It's probably quite a delicate mixture. To me it feels like they do prioritize their personal lives on this, very much so, but most definitely also take the audience into consideration a lot.

So if he were to do something like the 'first boy crush' example,[...] I'm more just curious if we're at a point where something like that would register as an extremely big deal, a normal-sized deal, or just another liveshow, and along with any of those options, if it would matter that it shined a brighter light on his relationship with Phil. And if it did, to what degree would that even matter if they just continued to ignore it like they do anyway?

Personally speaking, I think I'd view it as a normal-sized deal, to use your words. Not a big deal at all to me in the sense that he's made it pretty fucking clear that he's not straight so far, a little bit of a bigger deal in that I get that more direct declarations will have a bigger impact on the phandom- and that they we :/ will make it a big deal.
But, yes, definitely lessened by how open they already are.
The second part; about how it would affect people asking about relationships more. I agree that many view those as tied, and will ask more. I also agree that they're astoundingly good at ignoring prodding questions, thanks to probably not very easy years of learning to do that, so I think they'd be very capable of dodging that until it dies down, if they'd be willing to.

Maybe nothing is as big of a deal as we tend to think it is, and maybe D&P are doing a lot less hand-wringing over some of these things than we are.

!! yes, probably. but it's our job as a fandom to analyse and theorize endlessly, isn't it?
and maybe it's also an opportunity for us to learn how to not worry as much, how to be better at accepting things at face value. to me personally, that is one of the things I wouldn't have learned as thoroughly or as quickly without being involved in fandoms.

I read a fic today by InternetTakeover that depicts deppy having a plan about revealing their fictional (allegedly) dating relationship and how that goes for them as they set their plan in motion. It's on ao3 called "People stare cause we look so Good Together" Http://Archiveofourown.org/works/7091176 It refers to Dan having carried out a similar strategy for "coming out" as not straight. I know the difference between fiction and reality, but this fic really is a fantastic thought exercise.

seconding this recommendation, that was a fucking great piece of work.

now I'm gonna be late to uni, shit

[LtrllySusan]

I missed the entire gaming discussion again. More bombs and golf, yes please. PM me for bomb help

aw i love that jumper partly because of the interesting colours but also because i do think oversized things are cute as heck; see, part in the new spider man film ehere tom holland was wearing a big ol oversuzed jumper aww

My problem with the star trek (?) jumper isn't that it's oversized or the colours, I think the fabric is unflattering. It just seems to stiff and thick and doesn't fall nicely. The b&w striped oversized jumper is v v cute indeed. But you can't win me over with that beige uniform.

Ok I will shut up about the jumper now.

[offtopic]Also while we're discussing opinions anyways, can someone please tell me I am not the only person with absolutely no interest in comic/superhero movies?[/offtopic]