Dan & Phil Part 56: Phanthony! at the Disco

[citizen_erased]

Gotta admit I'm also a bit nervous about it. It could be great, and I generally trust Dan to not make a mess of this and to research it and be respectful about it. On the other hand, as said here, it could be a trainwreck. Ironically, my own mental health issues are making me even more worried because so many people who I trusted about things like this messed up and I've been let down before so my mind's shouting at me that it's all over now.

That said, if (and I do really mean IF) he talks about his own issues instead of a more generic "lots of people suffer here's what to do" type of thing, I really would be very proud of him opening up about such a personal and sensitive topic.

I checked the replies to his tweet earlier and I saw a lot of people asking for Phil to wear the cheese dress tomorrow Unfortunately I don't own anything yellow outside of a single hufflepuff sock (I'm not even hufflepuff) but idk, maybe I'll do an instagram picture with mental health related books or smth.

And to all the people here opening up about mental health and starting therapy soon: well done, and thank you for sharing! I'm glad you're all getting help I just finished my therapy this summer and though it's been a very rough ride since (because of things happening in my life), I'm glad I started therapy all those years ago

[malday]

I remember when Anna Akana did a video about going on antidepressants, people didn't like it because they expected skits and funny content from her and thought she was trying to get sympathy.

But i think if Dan does the video with the intent of raising awareness it's going to be well received.

And I know it can be really jarring when somebody in a positions of privilege opens up about and gets more attention for something you yourself are struggling with, but i hope people remember mental health discussion shouldn't be an olympics of who has had it worse, since the audience is global chances are someone else has had it worse than you anyway, and dismiss whatever he shares just because of that.

[drearyquery]

I'm personally excited and intrigued for the mental health video and I trust dan not to screw it up. Its possible he'll make little slip ups but I'm hoping tiny things won't get picked at by viewers.

That being said, if there is more backlash it's important not to get too defensive of dan and go after those who feel hurt/misrepresented. I don't see this being that big of an issue on idb but if someone is concerned after the video it won't be productive to put them down and ignore their critiques just bc dan's trying hard and stepping out of his comfort zone. Backlash to the video shouldnt be seen as all bad and be met with its own backlash as people's thoughts on mental health can vary but still be valid. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't go too hard on dan but don't go hard on people who disagree/are offended by him. Idk if any of that makes sense...

[parallel]

Yeah, I trust that Dan has 100% good intentions. If he does say anything that could possibly be questionable, I'm sure he meant the best and I really hope the Phandom doesn't react badly because it is really brave of someone to talk about something so personal (assuming that he's talking about his mental health and not just MH in general). But even if he's not talking about himself personally, it's still not usual DINOF (DH, now?) content and we should be grateful that he's talking about something important like this.

Regardless of what the video is, I'm looking forward to it and also proud of Dan for doing this

Edit: Also I agree with drearyquery 100%! We don't need to be rude to any criticism either; keep it civil on all ends

[captainspacecoat]

(i'm quietly pleased to be proved right lol)

I'm very proud of him for taking on this cause, even if he wasn't doing a mental health vid I think it's great for him to be supporting the charity

I (perhaps naively) have faith in him, based on how sweet and positive he was being in his replies today. I think he's demonstrated that he's well aware of how sensitive the topic of mental health is, and I feel quite certain that he'll address it with care and consideration. I do agree though that possible audience reactions are making me wary - given the amount of people keen to discredit him whenever he mentions his experience with mental health even slightly, I'm expecting at least some controversy.

[alittledizzy]

I (perhaps naively) have faith in him, based on how sweet and positive he was being in his replies today. I think he's demonstrated that he's well aware of how sensitive the topic of mental health is, and I feel quite certain that he'll address it with care and consideration. I do agree though that possible audience reactions are making me wary - given the amount of people keen to discredit him whenever he mentions his experience with mental health even slightly, I'm expecting at least some controversy.

This is definitely where I am right now; I think he fully understands how sensitive a topic it is. I do not have complete faith he won't overthink it and I'm also sure some people have already made up their minds that they'll be offended, and some on the fence won't like his phrasing no matter what he says. But I hope we're right in that he'll come at it with consideration, and that if that's the case then the voices of support and encouragement weigh out the rest.

[blackdenim]

I also have faith in Dan to cover the topic sensitively. And I have faith in his audience to not make a huge drama out of nothing (perhaps that's misplaced, we'll see!)

I'm super interested to hear what, if anything, he has to say about the 'mild agoraphobia' he's mentioned a few times now. I am obsessed with hearing about others' experiences of the condition, and with talking about/documenting my own (my worst period was in 2014, I am mostly fine now although I do struggle sometimes, e.g. last week I got all the way to my office and turned around and went on the bus back home because I didn't 'feel right' being out of the house), because I feel like hearing about others and sharing my own experiences kind of validates my thoughts and feelings I had at the time I was at the worst, but also gives them less power, like it makes them both more and less real if that makes sense, and it's comforting.

Anyway that was just a ramble to say I am particularly hoping he at least touches on agoraphobia and - I know this is really wishful thinking - how having an audience/fanbase plays into that.

[annoying dog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/huskyhowlter ... 3997238272

Did I miss something or is this a case of never being able to please everyone

[onetruetrash]

www.twitter.com/huskyhowlter/status/917458433997238272

Did I miss something or is this a case of never being able to please everyone

Yeah, I have no idea what that person is talking about.

[eel]

I feel like no matter what Dan does about the mental health video at least one person will find it problematic. This was made obvious by the color tweet. I'm still not sure if that was a joke or not. I trust Dan to do well with the video and I think that I will enjoy it. I would wear yellow if I owned any. I'm just excited for more dinof content.

[lefthandedism]

Aw, phanfic right there.

[SneakyLizard]

www.twitter.com/huskyhowlter/status/917458433997238272

Did I miss something or is this a case of never being able to please everyone

Yeah, I have no idea what that person is talking about.

It begins.

I'm glad some of you have faith in his larger audience to be reasonable and kind. I don't. For the most part, I don't think anyone here on idb would go out of their way to be offended if he makes an honest effort, and if you do have reservations about a video it's usually for reasons I can understand and even agree with often. We're a pretty small subset of the larger platform of viewers though, and I am often bothered by the way torches and pitchforks come out at the slightest provocation in other corners of the internet

I am going to choose to be cautiously optimistic, because I like Dan and I really do expect him to do a good job with this and don't enjoy being a doomsayer. I just don't have a lot of faith in groups of humans, especially when they are armored in anonymity.

Edit because I saw Phil's tweet: Such a betrayal! How could they not take the world's #1 cute baby animal fan with them to feed the hedgehogs?

[Loafer]

Gotta say, all this talk about what people are hoping he does or doesn’t talk about or do isn’t helping my trepidation about the whole topic. I’m curious how he handles a topic that is unlike any he’s ever talked about on dinof before and is obviously so personal and important to him, but he’s never going to please everyone.

I can hear the mob of fans chanting “whiny privileged white boy” beginning in the distance and I’m annoyed already. Unless he’s a selfish idiot and makes a fool of himself in the video, let him use his platform for good and awareness if he wants, dang it.

[tyhane]

Agreed with everyone talking about being afraid of the backlash. I know that you can't please everyone, some people are gonna complain no matter what you do, etc., but I just see soooo many possibilities with this topic of what could go wrong. It's not so much that I don't "trust" him to handle it in a sensitive manner, just that even then, there are a lot of things that could upset people. Basically, I just hope when there are (inevitably) people that disagree/are upset/etc., he doesn't take the criticism poorly. (Didn't he react pretty badly to people that had criticisms of his Tinder video? Like just dismissing it as people not "getting" the humor? I wasn't paying much attention at the time so I could be remembering completely wrong. ) I mean, I don't expect that same exact issue to happen again (as I'm not expecting the video to be chock-full of dark humor), but I'm talking just in the sense that he didn't seem to react well to it.

I'm surprised by his comment about a LS on Wednesday. When he had originally said that in his LS last week, I had just taken it as a general dodge of the question (instead of straight-up saying that he'd be uploading a vid Tuesday and not doing a LS). I guess he wants to be able to immediately discuss the video.

Between that and the fact that he's very aware of how difficult a video it is to make (from when he talked about it in the LS before last), I would say that I have faith that he's aware of the possibility of a trainwreck lol. So I'm not actually that worried... I just always like to picture the worst-case scenarios I guess.

This might all sound like I don't want the video but I'm actually really interested in what he'll say.

That being said, if there is more backlash it's important not to get too defensive of dan and go after those who feel hurt/misrepresented. I don't see this being that big of an issue on idb but if someone is concerned after the video it won't be productive to put them down and ignore their critiques just bc dan's trying hard and stepping out of his comfort zone. Backlash to the video shouldnt be seen as all bad and be met with its own backlash as people's thoughts on mental health can vary but still be valid. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't go too hard on dan but don't go hard on people who disagree/are offended by him. Idk if any of that makes sense...

Also, this. That's actually something that had been getting on my nerves a bit lately. Idk, just a lot of people seeming overly defensive of dnp when they really don't need to be. I see this both for inconsequential things like not liking a video and for more serious criticisms. Obviously blind hate isn't good, but... people have just as much a right to dislike something, criticize something, etc. - and even express it! - as they have to like or praise it. I'm sure someone complaining about the Sims series isn't going to personally hurt Dan or Phil. People have every right to avoid/unfollow people that speak negatively if they want, of course, but to actually want people to keep those thoughts to themselves is just silly imo. (For clarity's sake, I'm talking about seeing this stuff on other platforms, not here.)

[alittledizzy]

I am now desperately curious to know what Phil has voted on.

[whelpkeeper]

I'm going in with high expectations, I really think Dan will address his older, "coping with humor" type branding while also raising awareness, and I'm excited to see how the video turns out. I really hope I end up liking it but we'll see, trying to not judge until I actually see it but I think it'll end up really lovely

I hope there's not a lot of backlash towards him though, I personally know how hard it is too speak about mental health in general, especially your own so kudos to him Telling people about my agoraphobia is something I always try to avoid and dread doing, so if he's doing anything similar I'm sending über-positive vibes his way

I am now desperately curious to know what Phil has voted on.

lol that reminds me of when my friend realized people can tell when you screenshot their Snapchat

[Ticia]

The worst thing is that, no matter what, Dan is going to get ruthless hate for preparing a deep video without having a PhD in Psychology, Philosophy, Social Sciences, Feminism and Musicology, or showing his detailed medical records. Gotta lov the internetz'

[nihilist-toothpaste]

i don't totally understand where the prevailing sentiment is coming from re: some sort of inevitable backlash to dan's video, nor why this nervousness and pessimism apparently overshadowed every other feeling following dan's tweets and actually i think i'm actively a bit bothered by it and i'm trying to put my finger on why... here are some sure to be rambling and messy thoughts:

1. it feels like a bit of a misread on the way the core phandom is almost too eager to protect dan and support him (even in times where he might genuinely deserve criticism or to be held generally accountable for the impacts of his words/actions). quite literally every tweet reply to his original post today was someone voicing how proud they are of him for choosing to use his platform for this. if you look at the top posts in the main tags right now on tumblr, and also basically every post on this forum following the tweets, as well as a lot of the top tweets in their twitter mentions, they're almost all messages from fans voicing how brave dan is and how absolutely unacceptable it would be for people to 'get mad' at dan over this video, accuse him of being neurotypical, try to paint him as offensive on any level, etc. etc. some examples .. here are the urls in case the embedding doesnt work (x) (x) (x)

i'm truly /searching/ for negative tweets and posts and have been for like 20 mins (bc boredom i guess) and i havent found any? so i dunno, i guess this is the main source of my confusion right now: the phandom is ultimately much more protective of dan than it is critical, even at the worst of times, or i guess that's always been my read on it. do most people not agree with that? and do we not think people would be much more willing to withhold criticism even if theyre normally critical when it comes to a video that is intrinsically personal/vulnerable/made with respect to a topic that is personally relevant to so many of dnp's fans?

2. i think i also feel weird about the way a lot of people are portraying 'critical voices' as inconsolably angry pitchfork-bearing aggressors, who are coming at dan simply for the sake of being angry. im sure there are people like this, and in this scenario im sure (as many people above me have stated) there are definitely individuals who have decided long before this video is even released that they will be upset with it and that no video made by dan howell on this topic could ever be satisfying to them. but the idea that any critical voice that could arise is someone with this kind of attitude, that the people who critique dan when he missteps are primarily doing so out of a need to be angry at something or just the sheer sport of it, imo, devalues a lot of the very valid criticism that has been voiced towards him in the past (and sounds a bit too much like 'ugh overly sensitive snowflakes why cant you all get over it' rhetoric which makes me distinctly uncomfortable). i guess i dont totally understand why it's okay to just write off ppl's critiques that way, in such broad brushstrokes, before theyve even happened. i therefore def agree with drearyqueen and tyhane in their points about trying to listen to, and understand, any criticism that does arise, bc i do think the wide majority (because ofc there are probs a handful of individuals who aren't this way) of people who critique dan or attempt to hold him to account, do so out of respect or out of a desire to educate people on things (esp oppression/discrimination/etc.) that might be missed or overlooked either by dan or his fan base, and not just because they simply have so much fun attacking him or sending him 'ruthless hate' (srsly what?) or feeling smug and superior about all of it. but again, do most people feel differently? am i just naive? idek.

ahh sorry if this is super rambley and incoherent. i do get the nervousness and trepidation in general bc ofc this is a sensitive subject, it's a huge step for dan and a big change for his comfort levels, there's many ways he definitely /could/ mess up. certainly not trying to minimize all of those realities. but i guess im just a little sad that when dan decided to do something so good, the prevailing emotion well before the video even came out was fear and nervousness and pessimism that such a video could go over well. and i'm bothered that a lot of that sentiment has snowballed into sort of aggressive and (esp on tumblr, not really here) morally righteous posting about how to be the Best and Most Supportive fan, which is just a whole line of discussion that makes me feel super weird ahaha. sorry if im off base with anything ive said and i really did value reading through everyones thoughts on this, but i thought i'd post the questions i'm left with

edit: im rly sorry i have been sat here trying to figure out what i'm doing wrong w the tumblr code for like 10 mins and i have no idea ill keep trying to fix it but sorry if i miss my editing window lol

[FandomLurker]

I really understand where you are coming from in your whole post but this part especially stuck out to me.

i'm truly /searching/ for negative tweets and posts and have been for like 20 mins (bc boredom i guess) and i havent found any? so i dunno, i guess this is the main source of my confusion right now: the phandom is ultimately much more protective of dan than it is critical, even at the worst of times, or i guess that's always been my read on it. do most people not agree with that? and do we not think people would be much more willing to withhold criticism even if theyre normally critical when it comes to a video that is intrinsically personal/vulnerable/made with respect to a topic that is personally relevant to so many of dnp's fans?

I will probably ramble in a nonsensical because it is super late/early and I should be sleeping. I Have a shit ton of mental health and baggage and I don't say that because it gives me credibility but because I think this has changed me in a way that relates. Sidenote I think people thing they have to have a disorder or something to have an opinion or that having one gives your option more validity. I think that no matter what your experience is with your own mind, is your experience. However, someone equally has the right to have had their own very different experience. Anyways, my experience with my own mental health issues has made it so I often feel attacked because of things I cannot do and that has encroached my identity and it sucks, like deeply. As such I refuse to criticize, attack or be offended by something that is intended well, knowing how hard it is to try and how much it hurts when people react unexpectedly. Like even if he messes it up completely I feel confident that he has extremely good intentions. No progress on stigma or education will come if people get mad and offended instead of reflective and considerately offer an alternative point of view. Otherwise people will be scared to talk or too overwhelmed to join the conversation and with out conversation, imho, there will be no progress. Also, I have this weird brain malformation thing and when I got diagnosed I joined a bunch of groups related to it. My neurologist said this was a horrible idea and I didn't understand why for a long time, but it made everything feel negative. I think this is kinda similar in that negative comments or issues might not be prominent but when you find them or one its the end of the world. I guess I just think people come across some in the comment section on a channel or if they are in a hashtag vortex and think that such a comment reflects the wider audience when in fact take a step back might show the opposite.

I hope that makes sense. I just connected to being bothered by a lot of the assumptions and pessimism and early criticism and then criticism of that criticism in the wake of his tweets.

Anyways, I'm pretty new here and love all of you and this community and really don't mean to offend or become a part of any drama! Just well wishes from.

[liola]

I'm on my phone so I can't quote like I'd want to but I think the worry about the backslash isn't about it coming from the fandom itself. The community Dan has created for himself is supportive and sometimes even way too protective. But he has a wider audience than just his devoted fans who know him better than just the videos he posts every few weeks, following him with liveshows and tweets and generally be a little bit more aware of his mental health (keeping in mind the mentions he's given throughout the months more recently). But there's also a big chunk of casual viewers and people that are subscribed to him because of his funny/relatable content that is probably not aware of his mental health struggles or, worse, a chunk of assholes who could go at it with the whole "mental health/anxiety/depression isn't real". I'm sure Dan has factored this thing when deciding on this video, and I'm sure it was part of why he waited this long to make one, besides his comfort level with the topic.

Personally, it's this group of people that makes me pull a face, because it's never fun to see people dismiss mental health as not important. That said, I'm still proud of Dan for doing this and I'm sure he's confident of his comfort level now that he probably won't be too bothered.

So really, I doubt anyone in the fandom or at least the people that care about Dan would be negative about it, but then again I'm expecting people that won't be happy with the way he decides to go at it (if he mentions therapy people might say he's privileged to think everyone can afford it, If he doesn't he will get shit for not mentioning help, If he talks about his own coping mechanisms people won't relate etc..it's a lot of variables)

[Ablissa]

i don't totally understand where the prevailing sentiment is coming from re: some sort of inevitable backlash to dan's video, nor why this nervousness and pessimism apparently overshadowed every other feeling following dan's tweets and actually i think i'm actively a bit bothered by it and i'm trying to put my finger on why... here are some sure to be rambling and messy thoughts:

1. it feels like a bit of a misread on the way the core phandom is almost too eager to protect dan and support him (even in times where he might genuinely deserve criticism or to be held generally accountable for the impacts of his words/actions). quite literally every tweet reply to his original post today was someone voicing how proud they are of him for choosing to use his platform for this. if you look at the top posts in the main tags right now on tumblr, and also basically every post on this forum following the tweets, as well as a lot of the top tweets in their twitter mentions, they're almost all messages from fans voicing how brave dan is and how absolutely unacceptable it would be for people to 'get mad' at dan over this video, accuse him of being neurotypical, try to paint him as offensive on any level, etc. etc. some examples .. here are the urls in case the embedding doesnt work (x) (x) (x)

[Tumblr] <div class="tumblr-post" data-href="https://embed.tumblr.com/embed/post/0fE ... 6227308445" data-did="72bc5914da59d5af8fd4ed14a5cad82c7cab8610">[/Tumblr]
[Tumblr] <div class="tumblr-post" data-href="https://embed.tumblr.com/embed/post/1QO ... 6225520622" data-did="3beb63e8a3dbc69f392e5882f2197bf5efdd7632">[/Tumblr]
[Tumblr] <div class="tumblr-post" data-href="https://embed.tumblr.com/embed/post/N1d ... 6231889235" data-did="1f5afad085da19eae82e5d4e32fb2fd3280c2e1e">[/Tumblr]

i'm truly /searching/ for negative tweets and posts and have been for like 20 mins (bc boredom i guess) and i havent found any? so i dunno, i guess this is the main source of my confusion right now: the phandom is ultimately much more protective of dan than it is critical, even at the worst of times, or i guess that's always been my read on it. do most people not agree with that? and do we not think people would be much more willing to withhold criticism even if theyre normally critical when it comes to a video that is intrinsically personal/vulnerable/made with respect to a topic that is personally relevant to so many of dnp's fans?

2. i think i also feel weird about the way a lot of people are portraying 'critical voices' as inconsolably angry pitchfork-bearing aggressors, who are coming at dan simply for the sake of being angry. im sure there are people like this, and in this scenario im sure (as many people above me have stated) there are definitely individuals who have decided long before this video is even released that they will be upset with it and that no video made by dan howell on this topic could ever be satisfying to them. but the idea that any critical voice that could arise is someone with this kind of attitude, that the people who critique dan when he missteps are primarily doing so out of a need to be angry at something or just the sheer sport of it, imo, devalues a lot of the very valid criticism that has been voiced towards him in the past (and sounds a bit too much like 'ugh overly sensitive snowflakes why cant you all get over it' rhetoric which makes me distinctly uncomfortable). i guess i dont totally understand why it's okay to just write off ppl's critiques that way, in such broad brushstrokes, before theyve even happened. i therefore def agree with drearyqueen and tyhane in their points about trying to listen to, and understand, any criticism that does arise, bc i do think the wide majority (because ofc there are probs a handful of individuals who aren't this way) of people who critique dan or attempt to hold him to account, do so out of respect or out of a desire to educate people on things (esp oppression/discrimination/etc.) that might be missed or overlooked either by dan or his fan base, and not just because they simply have so much fun attacking him or sending him 'ruthless hate' (srsly what?) or feeling smug and superior about all of it. but again, do most people feel differently? am i just naive? idek.

ahh sorry if this is super rambley and incoherent. i do get the nervousness and trepidation in general bc ofc this is a sensitive subject, it's a huge step for dan and a big change for his comfort levels, there's many ways he definitely /could/ mess up. certainly not trying to minimize all of those realities. but i guess im just a little sad that when dan decided to do something so good, the prevailing emotion well before the video even came out was fear and nervousness and pessimism that such a video could go over well. and i'm bothered that a lot of that sentiment has snowballed into sort of aggressive and (esp on tumblr, not really here) morally righteous posting about how to be the Best and Most Supportive fan, which is just a whole line of discussion that makes me feel super weird ahaha. sorry if im off base with anything ive said and i really did value reading through everyones thoughts on this, but i thought i'd post the questions i'm left with

edit: im rly sorry i have been sat here trying to figure out what i'm doing wrong w the tumblr code for like 10 mins and i have no idea ill keep trying to fix it but sorry if i miss my editing window lol

I'm the author of that first post you linked and I feel I should explain myself a little, because on the whole, I agree with you. I haven't been checking tumblr for the past few hours as I was asleep, but I did see a lot of posts written in the tone of "if you hurt Dan I'm coming for you", seen them in response to my own post too. I don't condone that kind of mindset, don't get me wrong, but I understand where people are coming from. Sorry in advance if all this has been said before, I have to go to work and can't read the past page until later.

I never meant to say anything like "it's not okay to critique Dan, be nice even if you hate it". I meant more like "be kind". Maybe it's just me being overly sensitive, but often, it feels like for some fans, Dan can never do anything right.
Many times I've found myself puzzled to see his words picked apart, finding meaning where there was none. I'm probably guilty of this too, in a different way (reading into it with my phan goggles on). To some people, Dan is always in the wrong. He posts a video, he's either problematic, boring or cliche. He doesn't post one, he doesn't care about his audience and doesn't deserve it. You get my point, I'm sure, even if you don't agree with it.

My main sources of interaction with the phandom are tumblr and IDB, and on the former, I see Dan discourse quite often, and some of it wouldn't be nice for him to read, I think. I'm sure he's used to it, but still. When people call him out kindly, I have no problem with that at all. He's not perfect and I don't want to be his blind defender. I just want people to be kind to him where they can.

Does this make sense? Probably not, but bottomline is, I wasn't trying to start up drama before the video even happened, I'm just genuinely worried about the response when it's ready, because I feel like it might be personal to Dan, even if he approaches the topic from an impersonal standpoint. This topic is important to me too and I feel stupidly protective of it. But seeing the positivity now, perhaps I was too quick to worry.

[captainspacecoat]

I think for me personally, any trepidation I have (and I don't have much, I'm genuinely very happy that he's decided to make a video on mental health and fully support him stepping out of his comfort zone a bit) stems from reactions to Dan's past uses of the word 'agoraphobia'.

In the aftermath of Dan's uni video, there was a lengthy discussion on this forum about whether or not he had the right to use that word, questioning whether he could possibly have actual experience with agoraphobia based on the fact that he does go outside, making assumptions about his motivations and suggesting that he had misused the term and appropriated a mental illness for comedic effect.

While I sympathise with those criticisms, in so far as I understand how sensitive the topic of mental illness is and I think it's totally fair to be wary of mentally healthy people coopting or trivialising serious mental illnesses, they ultimately bothered me as I don't think there's any reason to believe Dan is anything but sincere when he talks about his experience with agoraphobia and social anxiety. I'm not worried about the video itself, but moreso the discourse that does have the potential to arise in its aftermath.

If there are valid criticisms to be made about the video then I'm obviously more than happy to discuss them given that that is the nature of this forum (god knows I was dishing out plenty of criticism following the memeing of life video ), but I'm just hoping that if he does decide to take a more personal approach in the video that I don't have to sit through countless people discrediting him, as has happened in the past.

Totally agree with your second point though nihilist-toothpaste, in general when Dan and Phil fuck up viewers are more than entitled to call them out. I think people are so quick to dismiss valid criticism of people in the public eye, and it's certainly something that happens in this fandom - the monolid discourse being a recent example, whereby Dan and Phil made a mistake that could objectively be interpreted as racist, people rightfully questioned this, and then were subsequently attacked by defensive (white, generally) fans. If people are offended by something, they have the right to voice their opinions. I just don't think it's fair to accuse Dan of not being "actually agoraphobic" or whatever simply because he didn't sufficiently explain his mental health history.

[fancybum]

i don't totally understand where the prevailing sentiment is coming from re: some sort of inevitable backlash to dan's video, nor why this nervousness and pessimism apparently overshadowed every other feeling following dan's tweets and actually i think i'm actively a bit bothered by it and i'm trying to put my finger on why... here are some sure to be rambling and messy thoughts:

1. it feels like a bit of a misread on the way the core phandom is almost too eager to protect dan and support him (even in times where he might genuinely deserve criticism or to be held generally accountable for the impacts of his words/actions). quite literally every tweet reply to his original post today was someone voicing how proud they are of him for choosing to use his platform for this. if you look at the top posts in the main tags right now on tumblr, and also basically every post on this forum following the tweets, as well as a lot of the top tweets in their twitter mentions, they're almost all messages from fans voicing how brave dan is and how absolutely unacceptable it would be for people to 'get mad' at dan over this video, accuse him of being neurotypical, try to paint him as offensive on any level, etc. etc. some examples .. here are the urls in case the embedding doesnt work (x) (x) (x)

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i'm truly /searching/ for negative tweets and posts and have been for like 20 mins (bc boredom i guess) and i havent found any? so i dunno, i guess this is the main source of my confusion right now: the phandom is ultimately much more protective of dan than it is critical, even at the worst of times, or i guess that's always been my read on it. do most people not agree with that? and do we not think people would be much more willing to withhold criticism even if theyre normally critical when it comes to a video that is intrinsically personal/vulnerable/made with respect to a topic that is personally relevant to so many of dnp's fans?

2. i think i also feel weird about the way a lot of people are portraying 'critical voices' as inconsolably angry pitchfork-bearing aggressors, who are coming at dan simply for the sake of being angry. im sure there are people like this, and in this scenario im sure (as many people above me have stated) there are definitely individuals who have decided long before this video is even released that they will be upset with it and that no video made by dan howell on this topic could ever be satisfying to them. but the idea that any critical voice that could arise is someone with this kind of attitude, that the people who critique dan when he missteps are primarily doing so out of a need to be angry at something or just the sheer sport of it, imo, devalues a lot of the very valid criticism that has been voiced towards him in the past (and sounds a bit too much like 'ugh overly sensitive snowflakes why cant you all get over it' rhetoric which makes me distinctly uncomfortable). i guess i dont totally understand why it's okay to just write off ppl's critiques that way, in such broad brushstrokes, before theyve even happened. i therefore def agree with drearyqueen and tyhane in their points about trying to listen to, and understand, any criticism that does arise, bc i do think the wide majority (because ofc there are probs a handful of individuals who aren't this way) of people who critique dan or attempt to hold him to account, do so out of respect or out of a desire to educate people on things (esp oppression/discrimination/etc.) that might be missed or overlooked either by dan or his fan base, and not just because they simply have so much fun attacking him or sending him 'ruthless hate' (srsly what?) or feeling smug and superior about all of it. but again, do most people feel differently? am i just naive? idek.

ahh sorry if this is super rambley and incoherent. i do get the nervousness and trepidation in general bc ofc this is a sensitive subject, it's a huge step for dan and a big change for his comfort levels, there's many ways he definitely /could/ mess up. certainly not trying to minimize all of those realities. but i guess im just a little sad that when dan decided to do something so good, the prevailing emotion well before the video even came out was fear and nervousness and pessimism that such a video could go over well. and i'm bothered that a lot of that sentiment has snowballed into sort of aggressive and (esp on tumblr, not really here) morally righteous posting about how to be the Best and Most Supportive fan, which is just a whole line of discussion that makes me feel super weird ahaha. sorry if im off base with anything ive said and i really did value reading through everyones thoughts on this, but i thought i'd post the questions i'm left with

edit: im rly sorry i have been sat here trying to figure out what i'm doing wrong w the tumblr code for like 10 mins and i have no idea ill keep trying to fix it but sorry if i miss my editing window lol

My pessimism has literally nothing to do with how Dan will do the video, I don't doubt his intention or ability on any level, the pessimism is all about the audience reaction. If you're lucky enough to have missed all the conversations on mental health that have happened here (because I don't know/care what's going on on tumblr) about how Dan isn't allowed to say anything, or shouldn't have said anything, or is lying, or doesn't understand the words he's using because x y z, then consider yourself lucky. But they've happened enough times, and have been frustrating enough each time, to make me preemptively tense about them happening again, no matter what Dan says in the video or how he says it. Because people saying entitled heartless shit about his coping mechanisms or approach to mental health discussion (even when it's his own) is saying it about everybody and it's garbage to read. If somebody has a thought-out and valid critique afterward, then nobody's going to be writing that off, but if enough of it amounts to 'Dan doesn't have it as bad as me/joking about his own shit is offensive to my shit/he's rich therefore he's fine/etc/etc' (at least those are the favourites around here, but I'm sure the list is endless) then maybe you can understand where the dread is coming from, for me anyway. It's nothing to do with Dan.

[freesocks]

Ah well, grumble grumble etc. Yay a mental health vid.. can't wait to hear about how everything he said is wrong and offensive because it won't apply to everyone because it's either too vague or too specific or he makes jokes.. whee...

Same here, excited for the video, less for the inevitable wave of backlash

I'm so scared of the backlash ngl. I feel like this is a personal one for Dan. I hope he listens to the positive comments instead of the whiny ones.

I can't believe he is going anywhere near this topic. To be honest, beyond the backlash (which I am not excited for), I am kind of worried that the video will be depressing in itself, but even more than that, I am a little concerned because Dan's audience tends to romanticize mental illness already and I am afraid if he is too heavy on the dinof "black like my soul" persona, it could lead to people romanticizing it even more or thinking it is cool because Dan talked about it. On the other hand, I do think he is aware of that and has thought carefully about how to approach this topic. Its just such a loaded topic, so I guess I am not that excited. I don't think there has been a funny video on dinof in a while and I really miss the sketches. I do wish he would balance it out a bit more. Ahhh I have to many random thoughts on this topic.

[freesocks]

Still nervous about this. Could be great, could be a trainwreck

Honestly the only thing I really want from this video is for him to finally provide context to his (old?) 'brand' of using dark and depressing humor as a coping mechanism. I've said it before, but while it's 'relatable' for me personally I do think that the way Dan has treated these things in the past has contributed to the normalization and romanticization of negative self image and other thoughts like that to a young audience. Not on purpose, but as he never provided context it just kinda happened imo. I'd like for him to get real about that for a sec.

I also wonder if he'll address the progression that he implies to have made several times and what that means because he usually doesn't let any of that translate into videos and everything has been more stagnant there.

I could not agree with this more, although I think that it has gotten worse with time as his older videos were lighter and more comedic. Also, if you go back and look at things he said years ago, he talked about having friends and socializing and even if he did awkward things, he still made it clear that he had a full life, which we know is true.