Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

[rizzo]

I think this provides a bit more clarity than BIG, but I’m struck by: “just said out loud to myself: ‘I’m gay.’ It was really profound, [because] I’d been running away from that two-word admission my entire life.”

In other words, did he only accept and come out to himself in those preceding weeks before BIG or was it more about labels and less about denial? I’m trying so hard to understand what kind of toll that must have played on one’s psyche, not to mention a long term relationship.

I find this really interesting too! But also in the context of people constantly asking and speculating.

So, he's got this long-term, serious relationship with a man happening throughout his life. He has his fans (and lbr, everyone else) constantly questioning him. Asking if he's gay. If he's bi. What's his label? Is he with Phil? What does that mean? Also - look at this leaked vday video!!!111

And then he's juggling these 2 parts of his life while trying to just figure out the answer for himself, when that answer is riddled with trauma.

I couldn't imagine the struggle if I tried. Genuinely, just makes me want to give him a big hug.

[alittledizzy]

I think this provides a bit more clarity than BIG, but I’m struck by: “just said out loud to myself: ‘I’m gay.’ It was really profound, [because] I’d been running away from that two-word admission my entire life.”

In other words, did he only accept and come out to himself in those preceding weeks before BIG or was it more about labels and less about denial? I’m trying so hard to understand what kind of toll that must have played on one’s psyche, not to mention a long term relationship.

And I’m perplexed by his saying “I don’t know the answer to that question” regarding boundaries on who/what/where of who he fucks—does he mean to say, I don’t know, or I don’t know what to say, or I know, but the question is intrusive so fuck off.

I’m genuinely okay not knowing (boundaries!), but I’m still endlessly fascinated by their relationship dynamic—I’d just love to know how they survived and made it work through the years and settle I guess that one last great mystery and know if the are romantic partners in the everyday sense or just platonic husbands/ soulmates and perhaps are open to experiencing romance elsewhere... I don’t know why that question feels unresolved to me (maybe I’m just a pervy nosey-body), but I guess I’ll have to hope for a tell-all book one day.

It doesn't feel unresolved to me - though obviously that's a personal stance and I'm not saying it should/does apply to everyone! - because the theme I see running through his answers to these questions... in Interactive Introverts, in BIG, since BIG, and now in this - is not that Dan doesn't know the answer but that Dan (and Phil) haven't yet worked out how to answer. For me it comes down to what he said in BIG about keeping their private lives private, and they may be navigating that just like they're navigating everything else... just like Dan seems to have navigated his coming out. A lot of deliberation, a lot of back and forth, a lot of building up to it.

I think there are some days they probably want to shout it from the rooftops and other days they're scared of what further vulnerability, this time with regard to their relationship, would do to them. Obfuscation is a form of protection, imo. Right now they've positioned themselves in a way that they're being fairly honest about things (obviously more than romantic, companions through life, etc) while shutting down anyone's ability to assume a right to details. And I just really respect that a lot. I'm nosy as fuck and there are a lot of things I want to know, but Dan and Phil keeping their relationship personal and private is something I admire.

Also, and I'm coming back belatedly to add this, but I think just to zoom out... there's no reason to obfuscate a friendship if it were just a friendship. Two gay men can be close friends and roommates and I wouldn't think that'd be something they'd feel the need to blur the public definition of. But a long-term relationship that they want to keep close to them? Dan's answers just fit that for me.

[scientia]

Wow, ‘phil’ is currently trending #9 in the US. I enjoy seeing people discussing Dan’s responses, but can’t help but laugh that the (current) most discussed point of that article are Dan’s comments about Phil.

[Catallena]

[soveinco]

That first part (him saying it to himself, and if it was just in the weeks before BIG, or??) was really interesting to me as well, and it reminded me of something else he said in BIG: "It doesn’t matter if I was living the life privately as there was still so much confusion about my feelings and fear." I wonder if for the period of time when he was shutting down about thinking about his sexuality (even to himself) because it was just Too Much, he sort of just compartmentalized it as "I don't have to think about whether I'm gay or bi or something else, because I'm with Phil, and I could still be with Phil even if I were bi, not gay, so why does it even matter what I am, I can just not think about it because it doesn't matter. Everything is FINE."

[Phantasy]

I think this provides a bit more clarity than BIG, but I’m struck by: “just said out loud to myself: ‘I’m gay.’ It was really profound, [because] I’d been running away from that two-word admission my entire life.”

In other words, did he only accept and come out to himself in those preceding weeks before BIG or was it more about labels and less about denial? I’m trying so hard to understand what kind of toll that must have played on one’s psyche, not to mention a long term relationship.

And I’m perplexed by his saying “I don’t know the answer to that question” regarding boundaries on who/what/where of who he fucks—does he mean to say, I don’t know, or I don’t know what to say, or I know, but the question is intrusive so fuck off.

I’m genuinely okay not knowing (boundaries!), but I’m still endlessly fascinated by their relationship dynamic—I’d just love to know how they survived and made it work through the years and settle I guess that one last great mystery and know if the are romantic partners in the everyday sense or just platonic husbands/ soulmates and perhaps are open to experiencing romance elsewhere... I don’t know why that question feels unresolved to me (maybe I’m just a pervy nosey-body), but I guess I’ll have to hope for a tell-all book one day.

It doesn't feel unresolved to me - though obviously that's a personal stance and I'm not saying it should/does apply to everyone! - because the theme I see running through his answers to these questions... in Interactive Introverts, in BIG, since BIG, and now in this - is not that Dan doesn't know the answer but that Dan (and Phil) haven't yet worked out how to answer. For me it comes down to what he said in BIG about keeping their private lives private, and they may be navigating that just like they're navigating everything else... just like Dan seems to have navigated his coming out. A lot of deliberation, a lot of back and forth, a lot of building up to it.

I think there are some days they probably want to shout it from the rooftops and other days they're scared of what further vulnerability, this time with regard to their relationship, would do to them. Obfuscation is a form of protection, imo. Right now they've positioned themselves in a way that they're being fairly honest about things (obviously more than romantic, companions through life, etc) while shutting down anyone's ability to assume a right to details. And I just really respect that a lot. I'm nosy as fuck and there are a lot of things I want to know, but Dan and Phil keeping their relationship personal and private is something I admire.

Also, and I'm coming back belatedly to add this, but I think just to zoom out... there's no reason to obfuscate a friendship if it were just a friendship. Two gay men can be close friends and roommates and I wouldn't think that'd be something they'd feel the need to blur the public definition of. But a long-term relationship that they want to keep close to them? Dan's answers just fit that for me.

THIS!
Yes, it’s this that has me endlessly fascinated about—because I get the sentiment (almost a trope), “let’s not complicate things by labeling it, let’s just enjoy what we have together”, but that seems to almost always apply to a budding romance or when trying to start over like in a rekindled relationship, not a decade long coupling. It would be hard for me to believe that the secret of their relationship longevity is “we’ll figure it out later”, though maybe that really is it in a sense.

Almost selfishly I want to know their secret... a young couple navigating their 20s, living together, working together for more than 10 years—that’s inspiring for any couple (heck, even just friends), plus they’re queer and lasted this long? Unheard of. Of course it’s presumptuous to think everything has been rosy through the years, but there must be something special keeping them together (and quite right, maybe that’s something they just don’t want to share).

Not holding my breath for a tell-all, but I hope maybe there’s a chapter in Dan’s book about navigating relationships/friendships while dealing with mental health issues—at the very least my curiosity would be itched if Dan expands upon interpersonal communication when one party is struggling with depression or identity issues or has the weight of denial to carry for so long.

[lefthandedism]

And I’m perplexed by his saying “I don’t know the answer to that question” regarding boundaries on who/what/where of who he fucks—does he mean to say, I don’t know, or I don’t know what to say, or I know, but the question is intrusive so fuck off.

I’m genuinely okay not knowing (boundaries!), but I’m still endlessly fascinated by their relationship dynamic—I’d just love to know how they survived and made it work through the years and settle I guess that one last great mystery and know if the are romantic partners in the everyday sense or just platonic husbands/ soulmates and perhaps are open to experiencing romance elsewhere... I don’t know why that question feels unresolved to me (maybe I’m just a pervy nosey-body), but I guess I’ll have to hope for a tell-all book one day.

Unpopular opinion that I've mentioned here before: it's possible for two people to be in a completely committed long-term romantic and sexual relationship--and have sex with other people.

I'm not saying I think that's the case with Deppy, but I'm saying it could be. Dan may just be obfuscating (and Dan is very good at that), or he could be telling us something very indirectly (he's good at that too). I think it's good to keep an open mind.

But, HUSBANDS.

[shan]

I think he absolutely adds in these comments to throw people off the scent. It would be next to impossible for him to have a relationship, even just a sexual one, with anyone else without it being all over the internet. The number of people who recognised him in the Tinder video and some smaller YouTuber who matched with a fake Dan around that time? Yes, there are other ways to meet people but most of those would also be just as easily exposed.

To add to that, and I don't know if this is a controversial take so I'm sorry if it is but, from BIG I took his explanation of exploring his sexuality to mean he doesn't feel the need/desire to label it but for all intents and purposes he is in a long-term committed relationship with a man so basically, he is gay.

He's also jealous af so I can't imagine him wanting to share.

[alittledizzy]

Yes, it’s this that has me endlessly fascinated about—because I get the sentiment (almost a trope), “let’s not complicate things by labeling it, let’s just enjoy what we have together”, but that seems to almost always apply to a budding romance or when trying to start over like in a rekindled relationship, not a decade long coupling. It would be hard for me to believe that the secret of their relationship longevity is “we’ll figure it out later”, though maybe that really is it in a sense.

To me it seems more like a not sure about labeling it for us moreso than they don't have labels for themselves. I think Dan does feel strongly that multiple things apply; best friends, which he values as high or more highly than the romantic side. Soul mates, companions through life, etc. But I also do feel like... Dan and Phil know what Dan and Phil are, and have their words for it. It's just letting us in on those that they're not sure about. Because once they attach that label that we'll all grasp onto - with no confusion or obfuscation - they can't take that back. It's like coming out again, and we know how many years Dan spent going back and forth on that!

[Megancita75]

I find the topic of the exact nature of their sexual relationship to be .... confusing. Like, why is that something anyone cares about? They are committed, and beyond that, why would the specifics of that commitment matter? I'm not calling anyone out, I just genuinely don't understand why anyone cares about it -- like what would that information, one way or the other, do to your fan relationship to them? Like sure, I get why it's important to acknowledge that queer monogamous relationships absolutely exist, and I get that the general concepts of monogamy and non-monogamy in relationships are interesting, but I don't quite get why knowing the answer in DnP's case is something people want or need to know. I mean, I'm as curious as the next person, but it's a very idle and mostly dormant curiosity. I don't feel invested in the actual answer to the question and whatever that answer is wouldn't mean anything to me in terms of what it says or doesn't say about queer relationships.

[Susanisnotafish]

It’s times like these that I’m glad Dan isn’t doing liveshows, as there is less chance he will back pedal on “husbands”. Hopefully he’s grown beyond that now.

It was very guilt inducing to hear how angry Dan is (or was 4 months ago) about the online speculation.

Any chance they literally got married during lockdown and Phil’s next video is A Wedding Day in the Life?

Guess I’m not overwhelmed with guilt after all.

[shan]

I can obviously only speak for myself but it's not the nature of their sexual relationship I'm interested in, it's their romantic relationship. These two facets have a tendency to bleed together because, in most cases, they are synonymous.

Their chemistry and compatibility is what draws a lot of people to them, I know it's why I got sucked in to the phandom. And while I really respect them for putting their relationship first and keeping the details of exactly what they are to each other private, I and many others will still be curious. I think there's enough info on the internet to have a pretty good idea without them saying it, both from old formspring/twitter posts as well as a decade's worth of content to get a feel for their personalities etc. I dgaf about their sexual relationship, but I admire their emotional relationship and find it fun to talk to others about what their opinion is and why in a forum where DnP aren't present or affected.

[Susanisnotafish]

does anyone have that phil formspring where someone asked like “what is dan - your boyfriend, brother, enemy, best friend, ect” and phil said (i think) “he is my son”? i’m not making that up am i?

anyways, it has the same energy as this, but this is the grownup and out version

At 6:30

[shan]

Don't know how to attach images but the text is:

Q: In all seriousness, what is Dan to you ? Boyfriend,brother,bestfriend,friend ect…

Phil: He is my son.

Q: do you love dan/would you date dan/am i totally out of the loop and you hate dan/am i totally out of the loop and you are already married to dan?

Phil: all of the above

[inanerat]

Any chance they literally got married during lockdown and Phil’s next video is A Wedding Day in the Life?

lmaooo I know a lot of people who had weddings planned for this year that had to be postponed and/or reworked they could just have a fun, chill day at home and have some nice take out and champagne or something and call it a wedding ditl. Play some crash bandicoot, bake yourselves a cake, put a ring on it and get a little tipsy. Fuck tradition, do it your way, ya know?

But in all seriousness if they ever do decide to get legally married (or not, you don't need the legality to have wedding imo) I do hope that (if they want it) eventually, they get a time to have some sort of ceremony with their families and close people in their lives. Whatever that means to them, I feel like they deserve the experience of all of their loved ones coming together to celebrate them and what they have for each other, whatever that is, however they want to define it. After all they've been through, after how long they have had to downplay how important they are to each other, they fucking deserve that. Regardless of whether they ever share it publicly or not.

(re: dailybooths and today: people are really like 'what exactly are you to each other? and deppy are like 'yes.')

[shan]

(re: dailybooths and today: people are really like 'what exactly are you to each other? and deppy are like 'yes.')

I love that so much, it sums them up completely

[Susanisnotafish]

(re: dailybooths and today: people are really like 'what exactly are you to each other? and deppy are like 'yes.')

I love that so much, it sums them up completely

They’re literally all things to each other. I love them and their relationship!

[madytastic]

I might have made this up lmao but I have this weird memory of maybe a Sims video? Where Dan called Phil "Mr. 'marriage is just a piece of paper'." Is this real and if so, does anybody know what it's from/what was the context?

[rizzo]

remember that time dan told us he and phil purposely dropped hints about moving ahead of their actual move?

i've chosen to interpret "husbands" as a similar hint of weddings to come and no one can talk me out of it.

on that note, i just picture kath being informed of the quote in this interview, ringing phil up and giving him an earful about them getting married without her being present. it would absolutely never be allowed. phil wouldn't dream of it.

[inanerat]

remember that time dan told us he and phil purposely dropped hints about moving ahead of their actual move?

i've chosen to interpret "husbands" as a similar hint of weddings to come and no one can talk me out of it.

on that note, i just picture kath being informed of the quote in this interview, ringing phil up and giving him an earful about them getting married without her being present. it would absolutely never be allowed. phil wouldn't dream of it.

This! Boiling us slowly in those phan waters, giving people time to have little freak outs so nothing is huge huge. (not that BIG wasn't huge, but the fact that Dan wasn't straight wasn't a big shock, he'd been hinting about it for ages, he said it himself)

[Susanisnotafish]

remember that time dan told us he and phil purposely dropped hints about moving ahead of their actual move?

i've chosen to interpret "husbands" as a similar hint of weddings to come and no one can talk me out of it.

Despite Phil saying iirc that he DIDNT hint, I choose to believe Phil letting us know he was given kombucha by Dan is him hinting they’re going to Japan on their honeymoon.

[Secretstanner]

I guess I took the Phil part different than the rest and the reason why is because we have no idea what he was asked. I see people questioning their relationship based on “just friends” but we don’t actually know the question put forth. It could be anything. “What do your audience think of yours and phils relationship?” I took Dans reply as saying what his audience could/do see their relationship as and dan listing the options off. I don’t know if I think dan was just telling us what they are. “Who the fuck knows” I don’t believe Dan and Phil don’t know what their relationship is. Also it starting and ending saying “I won’t tell his story for him” like?? What was the question!!!!

The section about “who you fucking, when did you last fuck, how hard do you fuck. I don’t know” I didn’t understand that In big and I don’t understand it now.

When it comes to talking about the open relationship topic. It’s controversial but I’ll say it’s completely possible. I’m not ruling anything out because we have no idea. I know people say Dans jealous so couldn't have a open or poly relationship but we don’t really know him. You can’t take clips from 10-8 years ago and use that as evidence. We don’t know Dan today, we don’t know Dan and phils relationship. Could they have always been open, could it be something that’s happened in the last year?, is it something that could happened 6 months down the line? Yes. Could they both be open? Could they be allowed to date other people, just have sex with other people, dan get to explore something he never had but Phil is completely content with the agreement. I’m not pushing dan and Phil open relationship canon lol it’s something I don’t vibe with but I don’t want to put my own opinions or assumptions on others.

Anyway I loved that interview. I miss dan. He’s beautiful. Can we get more dan photo shoots? Dan model canon. He’s got to stop doing these things and not warning us. My Apple Watch told me three times last night to “breath” one time was just looking at photos of dan hahaha anyway looking forward to Phils video, please longer than 8-10 mins. Tldr

[shan]

Yeah, I never liked the comments he made about who he's fucking etc. either. I don't know what the older phandom was like as I'm relatively new to the DnP bandwagon but the interest I've seen in their relationship has never been blatantly sexual? I'm all about heart-eyes Howell, love-eyes Lester and companions through life which is mostly what I've seen from other phans as well. My guess is that it could be targeted more towards general media interest which usually is more sexual and invasive so those responses are geared towards them as kind of a 'fuck off' message?

On the poly/open relationship topic, anything is possible and they totally could have that kind of arrangement. I think my mind just rejects it because of how intensely private and protective they clearly are about their relationship so the idea of throwing extra spanners in the works (bad phrasing, sorry) seems like it would be an unnecessary risk. But we may never know so it's up to our own imaginations!

Super excited for Phil's new video too, I'll honestly take anything at this point!!

As an aside, does anyone know if Attitude is available in physical copy internationally? I kind of want a hardcopy of his interview.

[Secretstanner]

Not to double post but this part stood out to me and I want to know more. He’s had a holiday and a Christmas post coming out. I feel bad that Dan doesn’t have the family life he obviously needs/needed. Not that that I think they are bad people. I have no idea but he seems to view himself as the dark sheep of the family and for him to not feel content in his families reaction later down the line, would be have come out sooner knowing you can’t always get the reaction you want from family.

“My family gave me these greeting-card responses: ‘It’s amazing, we just love you for who you are,’ blah blah blah. [But] I’ve had another Christmas with the grandma and the problematic slips out. I’m like, ‘That’s not how that works, but I love you, I think, maybe…’

“You just have to deal with it, I guess, take the high road all the time, accept that people are going to say the wrong thing with the best intentions,” he shrugs.

Also I want a physical copy too and I have no idea if that’s available. I won’t lie the moment I went into work I did check if we sold the magazine,, we don’t. But yeah if anyone knows please direct me because I want them photos

[missemma]

Having had a bit of time to process the excitement from last night a few of my thoughts this morning

- He said his grandma did something problematic at Christmas. I hope this wasn’t the “you just haven’t met the right person” bullshit that people constantly pull when you come out as gay.

- the husband thing. clearly he was joking and listing things people thought about them but the fact he said it, what progression, I’m here for it and I’m excited by it.

- he’s being openly gay to a whole different media not an online one where people know him and it’s safe but a whole new brand of people very brave of him

- he didn’t leave the house at all during lockdown. explains why he didn’t do the marathon. no training.

- the smile in the photo. he looks so healthy and glowing.

- the fact he was angry about people speculating online about if he was gay or not. this makes me feel sad, there has been so so much speculation over the years, including on here. I would like to say sorry to him for ever being involved in any speculation that has caused him any hurt or trauma.