Dan & Phil Part 40: We like the cock

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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thephandommenace
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Sorry to be a Deppy downer (woo puns) but I'm feeling super burned out on D&P right now. I only got properly into the phandom about 4-5 months ago and started posting in this IDB thread 1 month ago, and already I feel tired of them. I always get deep into a fandom for like 5 months and then I move on to the next thing.
Overexposure perhaps?
Maybe because when they were posting sporadically I was gasping for Deppy content, and now they're uploading so much I don't feel the need to read/write posts or search them on Tumblr/Twitter/AO3. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, and all that.
I also just started watching Hannibal (massive coincidence as I didn't watch Phil's liveshow until after I started. I'll get to that in a minute) and watching all the psychoanalysis and criminal psychology explained really made me question my obsession over two ordinary guys from my country who make light entertainment on the internet and lie occasionally. I'm aware that probably sounded really condescending; they're much more than just a couple of funny guys for a lot of people, so I'm sorry.
It's probably just a combination of me feeling existential after watching Hannibal and me being in the final stage of my obsessive phase before I find the next great thing.

I'm interested to know why people here (especially the longtime fans) are so interested in/entertained by after so long that you still watch and support them so loyally? Could it be the interaction and feeling closer to them than you would with a TV show/other fandoms? Do you go to them when you're having a bad day?

Thoughts on Hannibal (no spoilers) and why Phil wasn't too into it:
I usually hate horror but I'm into Hannibal. Like a lot. The gore and psycho thoughts don't bother/disturb me. (I'm also in it for Hannibal and Will's relationship. I smell a new ship.) I'm far more disturbed by films starring the supernatural, long tense silences and jumpscares, so it's probably a fear of the unknown, whereas Phil really seems to dig movies like Paranormal Activity and he digs his Stephen King, etc. Hannibal maybe feels too rooted in reality for Phil and it could be a reminder of his own mortality (a subject he admits scares him). He probably enjoys horror that allows him to step out of reality, feel the adrenaline rush, but then feel the relief of 'it's not real' afterwards. That's probably why political/realistic dramas feel upsetting to him too. They're too real.
Then again, he acknowledged that he maybe wasn't in the 'right frame of mind' to watch it at the time so he may still yet. But this fascinates me. Maybe psychology should have been my major instead of English.

I claim to be Phil trash but I always feel like I'm picking him apart in unflattering ways. I'm sorry Phil, your brain just works so differently to mine and I want to climb inside it so I can understaaand


Edit - I also like how in Hannibal they're always chasing the killer rather than having the killer chase them. That comforts me.
Thoughts on IS9:
I liked how different it felt. I thought he covered some really interesting problems, and tbh I preferred him being all chilled out and with the big-brotherly vibe giving advice rather than the done-to-death overexaggerated indignation and despair. There was still some indignation and despair, but not overwhelmingly so, in my opinion. Maybe it wasn't as 'funny' and maybe he's been a bit down this week, idk. But I don't think it was bad at all, and I luckily didn't hype myself up for the new dinof vid so I was just happy to see some new content on his channel. I try not to have high expectations for anything, be it films, books or YT vids, and I just enjoy things so much more. Not that there's anything wrong with criticizing something you don't like, but i don't like my judgement to be clouded by hype. I liked the video, and I feel very fond of him rn. He might not know everything and may occasionally make mistakes but overall he's a very open-minded, forward-thinking, nice person. I'm happy there's people like him and Phil on the internet for young'uns to look up to.

Oops, back into the trash can I go
Maybe I'll stick around for a bit longer
Phantasy
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Looks like Anthony Senpai beat Dan to it...

I can totally see Dan making a similar type of video along the same theme by deconstructing societal norms and labels, but still stop short of making any stort of announcement as it applies to himself.
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captainspacecoat
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I have nothing of worth to add to the conversation, but just wanted to say the last few pages have been super interesting and thought-provoking!
thephandommenace wrote:
I'm interested to know why people here (especially the longtime fans) are so interested in/entertained by after so long that you still watch and support them so loyally? Could it be the interaction and feeling closer to them than you would with a TV show/other fandoms? Do you go to them when you're having a bad day?
I feel like I'm in a bit of a weird situation as I'm a long-time fan, but also not really. I've always been the sort of person to latch onto something that interests me and have it consume me for anywhere from a few months to several years. I first started watching dnp in 2012 when I was 16, and I think I found them at the perfect time. My entire friendship group had completely disintegrated, so for me (as lame as this sounds) they were a distraction from that, or even some what of a replacement. I was fascinated by their past (I remember when thephandirectory was set up, it was wild) but I also just really warmed to them as people and wanted the best for them.

By mid 2014 though I was completely bored by them for some reason, I was sick of their content and felt that I no longer had the time or energy to keep up with them the way I once had, so I totally lost track of them. And then, in April last year I randomly came across Dan's anime video and perceived a noticeable change in him, and all of the sudden I was full-blown obsessed with them again. I think escapism still plays a huge part for me (politics and real life are so terrifying at the moment), and ultimately I'm just rooting for them from afar, I think they have something special and I just want to see them succeed, whatever that may mean for them. I've never once had an actual interaction with them (and I'm not sure I'd want to, tbh), but there is something about them both as individual people and as a unit that continues to fascinate me.
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Birdie
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thephandommenace wrote:I'm interested to know why people here (especially the longtime fans) are so interested in/entertained by after so long that you still watch and support them so loyally? Could it be the interaction and feeling closer to them than you would with a TV show/other fandoms? Do you go to them when you're having a bad day?
I seriously don't know. I obviously don't love everything they do and I'm super fed up with some things (obviously) but overall I just love their channels and the people they seem to be. They're different from other youtubers, at least I think they are. I'm not a big youtube fan and I never stick with youtubers longer than a few months or even days before I lose interest but I've been watching Dan and Phil since 2013. I'm invested enough to have made an account here to talk to other fans, something I've never done before. I'm not involved in any other fandoms but here I am anyway.

I don't think it's the interaction for me because I'm not into that. I would never write a youtube comment or tweet at them or anything. If I found out they knew about this site I would probably hide forever. I don't want to interact with them at all, I just like watching their videos a lot. I think they're interesting people or I probably wouldn't enjoy discussing them and their youtube content on here so much. I'm totally rambling because I actually really don't know why I like them so much but barely any other youtubers (there's just one other youtuber I stuck with since 2014). This doesn't answer your question at all. Sorry!

EDIT:
captainspacecoat wrote: I think escapism still plays a huge part for me (politics and real life are so terrifying at the moment), and ultimately I'm just rooting for them from afar, I think they have something special and I just want to see them succeed, whatever that may mean for them.
I think I feel the same way actually. I think they're both immensely talented and I want to see them succeed. That's probably another reason why I hate seing Dan indulge in his creative slump so much. Even at its most silliest his content was always quite clever, especially compared to what other youtubers put out. It bugs me that he apparently can't see he's already making quality content. :)
Last edited by Birdie on Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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pastelspectre
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thephandommenace wrote: I'm interested to know why people here (especially the longtime fans) are so interested in/entertained by after so long that you still watch and support them so loyally? Could it be the interaction and feeling closer to them than you would with a TV show/other fandoms? Do you go to them when you're having a bad day?
i mean i was into them in 2012 for about a year until late 2013 because i thought they were interesting and i was going through some really hard times, high school had recently started for me i believe and i didn't have a lot of friends so i..sort of used them as an escapism i think, as captainspacecoat did.

it helped me escape the problems that i had in real life and they made me feel better. and then i got into a new obsession (pewdiepie i think? or maybe it was at the same time as them, idk i get my obsession timelines mixed up) but i was into them hardcore back in 2012, i constantly watched tribute videos of phan, constantly watched their liveshows and old videos they had made and i just thrived off any content i could find of theirs since i think they uploaded sporadically back then, i can't remember. i even binge watched a bunch of their sap videos in one sitting i think. i moved into a different obsession though after about a year and then just..stopped watching them all together, until i saw a dan and phil post on tumblr i think and decided to see how they were doing and then got back into the sin bin. i could see myself staying for longer than a year this time though.

i feel like the constant uploading is actually better for me, because now i don't see myself falling off the grid with them out of disinterest bc they don't upload that often. bc now they upload constantly on dapg. it's a nice change of pace from what it was like in 2012 for me. idk. my sister says it's lame and pathetic that they don't have as many subscribers as markiplier or pewdiepie or some other big popular bigtime youtuber, but i did say that they have one of the most loyal youtuber fanbases i have ever seen. some of their fans would go to hell and back for them. and then she shut up after that.

so yeah idk. sorry for this big block of text.
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Amiaw
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Phantasy wrote:Looks like Anthony Senpai beat Dan to it...

I can totally see Dan making a similar type of video along the same theme by deconstructing societal norms and labels, but still stop short of making any stort of announcement as it applies to himself.
It's interesting that both Anthony Padilla and Daniel Layton posted videos about this. I hope this is not going to become a new thing because 1 or 2 good videos make a point but if people start flooding yt with them then it just becomes a new trend.

As to whether Dan Howell would ever make a video like this (not about being straight perhaps but about his experiences) I strongly doubt it. Both Daniel and Anthony attached a label to themselves and Dan doesn't seem to be in a place where he would do that
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momoroki
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thephandommenace when I saw you mention hannibal I got so excited lol, it is my fave!! tv show!! holy shit!! (lmao yes hannibal and will have such a well-portrayed, complex relationship, honestly I just adore every part of the show) aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Anyway, Hannibal screaming aside, I too have been a phan since 2012/2013, and they're the only fandom that I've stayed loyally devoted to for all this time. Usually I only stay in a fandom from anything ranging from a week to 6 months, but for some reason even when I stopped being a fan of youtube in general I still stuck with Dan and Phil. I guess they became a comforting constant in my life. I'd say that I looked to them for escapism, however that isn't right either, because that doesn't explain why I haven't stuck with any other thing that I've gotten into that could have very well fulfilled my need to escape from reality (lol that sounds so edgy my life isn't that bad lmfao).

If I had to wager a guess it would be because they hit the right combination of being 1. genuinely entertaining/relatable, 2. comforting and 3. really darn cute (both with each other and in general).

I also read an article which said this:
In today’s world, our exposure to celebrities is near-constant because of the limitless capabilities of the internet. We no longer have to wait for a new episode of our favorite show to be broadcast, as we can watch previous episodes on-demand any time of day or night. Our tendency to “binge-watch” our favorite shows gives us an even heightened level of exposure to the celebrities we have these one-sided interactions with. These feelings are intensified when we’re watching something like The Daily Show, where the persona (Jon Stewart) is talking directly to us, looking at the camera — engaging with us as directly as possible from the other side of the screen. We develop a certain intimacy with him as viewers because of how he addresses us and, how frequently we’re “spending time” with his program — daily, in his case. And when those relationships come to an end, (#Jonvoyage) we experience a very real sense of loss.
(source: http://www.themarysue.com/the-psychology-of-fandom/ )
We are, of course, in control of these parasocial interactions and forged relationships to these characters and celebrities because they never know about us at all. They invest no time, thought or energy into reciprocating. We can, at any time, terminate the relationship (break-up) without consequence. We’re free to operate within the relationship without really taking this other party into consideration because they never acknowledge us.
And although it talks about obsession in the context of celebrities, I think they count. Replace "shows" with videos and that's basically the situation we're in. The entire article is worth a read, and it definitely articulates my thoughts around the matter much better than I could - although I think the personal nature of vlogging/Youtubers in general intensifies our feelings of attachment even more than celebrities.
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kuensukki
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Phils ls Did I ever tell you how much i love this guy . The yellow hoodie suits him SO SO SO much!! Rizzo made an excellent point (a lot of excellent points) but one that I agreed with most was that Phil's ls aren't meaty but they still are enjoyable. I played it while I tried to write my essay and his soothing voice really made me happy. Him showing his plants has become such a predictable but endearing part of his show. Also his mood was so great and springy.

Him talking about the color wheel and how he forgot from his school days. And his blue bandana was so cute on him.

His art class talk: "I did rubbish, mine was just brown, I was rubbish at that", "we had to choose a corner and draw it, I was rubbish" "It was worse then everyone elses, it was crap, I spent 6 hours on it" Okay, so Phil has this interesting ability that I seem to see always and that's that he doesn't mind looking dumb. He doesn't need to be perfect at everything and he can acknowledge that fact and own up to it without feeling self-conscious which I really respect

HIS TAPED ABS

Why is he complaning about his lens wipes?? He can use that for his laptop, the pc, the camera lens, smh phil. Also his little doodling on the box is so precious

"we stayed up last night watching serenity" casual mention of hanging with dan and have a bro movie night

He gently scolded us for thinking Dil cheated on Tabitha with Eliza and even said the gold line "alot of people thought it was dillypants, but no, he did not lower his dillypants" Also him making sure that the Pancakes had everything in their house so they can properly raise a baby (I'm not crying thinking of future dad phil, nope :sobs:)

"I just cleaned all of you" "just wipes you down, wow that sounded weirder (adorable giggle).. i need to stop"

His rant about tattoos is really interesting. I totally agree about regret and how something can seem like a good idea at the time but you can come to regret it later on.And how he is quick to change his mind on things. What I was confused about is why he didn't just get a tattoo where he doesnt have to see it in the mirror (cough tramp stamp cough)

I was living in his uni talk and felt like I really related. He said he regretted not fully trying to understand his linguistics major, and that he would have attended class more (same). Also how he actually found something that he was truly passionate about and decided to go for his masters even though he feared the result. To me, it seemed like he chose the lingustic major just to have a bachelor, but just passed and then went on to really make most of grad school. Also I now really want to see the movies that he made and edited for his class and eventually want to see him attempting that on youtube. Him saying that it helped because he understands the devices they work with reminded me of a point we brought up on here in how technology is always changing, and so are the different editing techniques but the base understand must be consistent.

overall lovely phil liveshow (as always)

Dan: When the twitter thing happened yesterday I was kinda split down the middle. I agreed with missemma that he is at a disadvantage because everything he says is recorded, and gifed, and used as evidence in court ( ). BUT, I also really agreed with rizzo and 000dia000 points about how it really comes down to him and the expectation that he sets up. I don't agree with the notion that he owes his audience anything because yea, he makes money off his career, but at the end of the day, It's his choice when to upload, and your choice whether to stick around or not. But this whole air of expectation is what he instigates. When talking about a upcoming DINOF video in ls's, it sometimes seems like a cheap clickbait. He puts an air of mystery around it and quickly laughs off that it isn't "a big deal". But he also implies that its something people have been waiting for so I can't blame the fans for theorizing whatever they did. It's not fair to write them off as hopeful for "a come out" when it did seem like a possibility with his tone?

I feel like fan culture has a horrible tendency to shame fans because they interpret something and get excited about it, but that is okay. I don't think the people who were disappointed did anything wrong. They just misinterpreted his words, he got defensive and responded, and then people begged him for forgiveness and idolized him again. That rubbed me the wrong way because he did hype so he should try to own up to that atleast. Or clarify before that his next video was isg. But also, as people said, that's ignoring the anxiety he must feel and the expectation. I sometimes wonder if dan regrets things he says right after he says them. Once its out, its out, but now he has to own up to that name and that must cause his some sort of fear. :(

Dan tends to live and strive off external praise and critique. He will always need validation and will also look for honest opinions through the sea of adoration. It always seems that way with him. Not only with his content, but with people viewing him as intellectual, articulate, having good music taste. He won't shy from teasing someone for not knowing something, but not acknowledge when he misspeaks or makes a grammatical error. I always wonder if Dan could handle being a lawyer and what his life would have been if he had. I feel like he would have the validation of having a respectable job and being viewed as intelligent, but cases are riddled with failures and successes and he doesn't seem to cope well with those.

isg: It was okay, not horrible. Something that bothered me though was the parent shade. Just the overall way Dan talked about parents including himself in the "shitty parents rant kinda made him seem spoiled in a way. Dude, there was children living on nothing with their parent working 24 hours to provide and you're complaining because you didn't get a lesson paid or an expensive bubble bath? It seems so one sided to me too. Like, he has this huge platform that he uses to shade his parents left and right and they can never respond to it (and isn't it uncomfortable to his grandma that watches his videos?). There usually is a miscommunication with parents and I feel like he's just bitter at this point (atleast his videos show that) that he wasn't a privileged rich kid whos parents were 100% understanding and supportive, but so what? He had a house and food, and parents who filmed him in the bath and played games with him. At times it seems like he has an idealistic idea of how parents should be, and since they didn't meet all his expectations, that he will continue to talk poorly about them because he can. I love the guy, but I also know that sometimes parents need to work hard to provide, and if that's the case, it's not really their fault. He's perfectly free to talk about his parents, but I don't think its exactly fair to look at it from his words only.
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/fɪl lɛstɚ/
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kuensukki wrote:It was okay, not horrible. Something that bothered me though was the parent shade. Just the overall way Dan talked about parents including himself in the "shitty parents rant kinda made him seem spoiled in a way. Dude, there was children living on nothing with their parent working 24 hours to provide and you're complaining because you didn't get a lesson paid or an expensive bubble bath? It seems so one sided to me too. Like, he has this huge platform that he uses to shade his parents left and right and they can never respond to it (and isn't it uncomfortable to his grandma that watches his videos?). There usually is a miscommunication with parents and I feel like he's just bitter at this point (atleast his videos show that) that he wasn't a privileged rich kid whos parents were 100% understanding and supportive, but so what? He had a house and food, and parents who filmed him in the bath and played games with him. At times it seems like he has an idealistic idea of how parents should be, and since they didn't meet all his expectations, that he will continue to talk poorly about them because he can. I love the guy, but I also know that sometimes parents need to work hard to provide, and if that's the case, it's not really their fault. He's perfectly free to talk about his parents, but I don't think its exactly fair to look at it from his words only.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with you on this one. It's not fair to put down the experiences or feelings of people by comparing it to worse situations. With that line of thought, you'd also have to criticize him when he's very happy. Because surely someone, at some point, has been happier than him.
I say let the guy feel what he feels. I've enjoyed all the parent talk because it seems like he's opening up about something that is truly personal to him. Okay, so maybe in the grand scheme of things, growing up slightly poor and not getting bubble bath or music lessons doesn't seem like the worst thing ever, but it was still a negative experience for him. He seems to be genuinely upset about the way his childhood experience was. And he is most likely comparing his parents to Phil's (who seemed very good) all the time.
His feelings are valid about his childhood and his parents and he should be allowed to feel them and express them. He's mentioned that he never reached out to anyone, he never expressed how he felt, and he never sought help for his problems. Clearly his childhood and experience with his parents was traumatizing for him. So what if it could have been worse? It was bad enough that he feels the need to talk about it.

I'm not trying to attack you, btw. Sorry if it feels like that. I just really don't like it when people compare two negative experiences and act like one negates the validity of the other.
I am always on Phil Lester's side
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kuensukki
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/fɪl lɛstɚ/ wrote:
kuensukki wrote:It was okay, not horrible. Something that bothered me though was the parent shade. Just the overall way Dan talked about parents including himself in the "shitty parents rant kinda made him seem spoiled in a way. Dude, there was children living on nothing with their parent working 24 hours to provide and you're complaining because you didn't get a lesson paid or an expensive bubble bath? It seems so one sided to me too. Like, he has this huge platform that he uses to shade his parents left and right and they can never respond to it (and isn't it uncomfortable to his grandma that watches his videos?). There usually is a miscommunication with parents and I feel like he's just bitter at this point (atleast his videos show that) that he wasn't a privileged rich kid whos parents were 100% understanding and supportive, but so what? He had a house and food, and parents who filmed him in the bath and played games with him. At times it seems like he has an idealistic idea of how parents should be, and since they didn't meet all his expectations, that he will continue to talk poorly about them because he can. I love the guy, but I also know that sometimes parents need to work hard to provide, and if that's the case, it's not really their fault. He's perfectly free to talk about his parents, but I don't think its exactly fair to look at it from his words only. :shrug:
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with you on this one. It's not fair to put down the experiences or feelings of people by comparing it to worse situations. With that line of thought, you'd also have to criticize him when he's very happy. Because surely someone, at some point, has been happier than him.
I say let the guy feel what he feels. I've enjoyed all the parent talk because it seems like he's opening up about something that is truly personal to him. Okay, so maybe in the grand scheme of things, growing up slightly poor and not getting bubble bath or music lessons doesn't seem like the worst thing ever, but it was still a negative experience for him. He seems to be genuinely upset about the way his childhood experience was. And he is most likely comparing his parents to Phil's (who seemed very good) all the time.
His feelings are valid about his childhood and his parents and he should be allowed to feel them and express them. He's mentioned that he never reached out to anyone, he never expressed how he felt, and he never sought help for his problems. Clearly his childhood and experience with his parents was traumatizing for him. So what if it could have been worse? It was bad enough that he feels the need to talk about it.

I'm not trying to attack you, btw. Sorry if it feels like that. I just really don't like it when people compare two negative experiences and act like one negates the validity of the other.
Im not invalidating his feelings, nor do I think he didn't get hurt by them. I just think the way he presents it and talks about it is so much more negative then it has to be. In my opinon, the things he has presented has complaints recently have seemed trivial and out of his parents control to fix. If his parents didn't have the money for his lessons, its not fair to hate them or bring up the fact that they were "poor" (it gives the impression that they didn't provide). Also I just dont think it's fair to the parents who will now be judged on by all his fans because he complained about them (and had the platform to do so). Also the comparisons to Phil's family isn't exactly fair on that part either, because both families come from different socioeconomic backgrounds. Again, he's free to feel what he wants, but he's really providing a biased perspective that I don't think is exactly fair to his parents.

(I'll admit I'm prob more sensitive to this because I love my mom to death, and even if my dad wasn't home ever and still isn't understanding, I still feel a need to respect him and not badmouth him because that's the culture I was raised in, the culture of always respecting parents despite flaws and speaking to them about issues you have personally instead of holding a grudge/publically shading )
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Lara
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Dan has never said he was upset because they couldn't provide him with things that he wanted,he never said they were poor,just that they didn't have a lot of money and he's never seemed embarrassed or upset by that. He has also mentioned that his family spent money on traveling instead of material things and he was grateful for that because friends of his who had money never made those kinds of memories.
He has talked about how his mom rode on space mountain with him 5 times in a row even though she was scared and dealt with motion sickness and it meant a lot to him.
He also talked about when he was 10 and his mom called him out of school to take him to Disneyland Paris for a week.

So he isn't always making them look like bad parents(well his mom anyway) and she also supported him when he dropped out of law school.

What I do find interesting though is that I've never heard him saying anything negative about his grandmother,I mean he seems more amused when talking about her more than when he is talking about the rest of his family and I found that interesting and something that I completely relate to and I think it's nice that he has at least one member of his family that he seems to have a close connection to.
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kuensukki
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Lara wrote:Dan has never said he was upset because they couldn't provide him with things that he wanted,he never said they were poor,just that they didn't have a lot of money and he's never seemed embarrassed or upset by that. He has also mentioned that his family spent money on traveling instead of material things and he was grateful for that because friends of his who had money never made those kinds of memories.
He has talked about how his mom rode on space mountain with him 5 times in a row even though she was scared and dealt with motion sickness and it meant a lot to him.
He also talked about when he was 10 and his mom called him out of school to take him to Disneyland Paris for a week.

So he isn't always making them look like bad parents(well his mom anyway) and she also supported him when he dropped out of law school.

What I do find interesting though is that I've never heard him saying anything negative about his grandmother,I mean he seems more amused when talking about her more than when he is talking about the rest of his family and I found that interesting and something that I completely relate to and I think it's nice that he has at least one member of his family that he seems to have a close connection to.
oct 18 Liveshow:
So it’s kind of cool that YouTube is just this free thing where everyone can watch it and whatever. And all the things like merch and all these things, you know, they’re just… they’re just… they’re not… they’re just, what, additional? Should I say? It’s not the content, you don’t need to get it. It’s just a nice thing for the people that have money that can get it. Because when I was a teenager, my family didn’t have any money. I had no merchandise, I never went to concerts, so I know what it’s like. So, I’m saying, if you want to spend money on anything, you should spend it on the charity Stand Up To Cancer stuff, so if you want a poster you should get that. If you’ve just got like a pound, then get the charity song. ‘Cause that’s what’s important. But I do appreciate, you know… only get things if you want. Don’t feel like you ever have to. You know. ‘Cause I appreciate it. I’ve been there.”
ISG:
“Here’s the thing about parents: When you’re little and you’re growing up, you see your parents as these giant, all-powerful superheroes that must know everything, because they’re adults. Well, the closer you get to being an adult, the less you realize that is true. You see, ‘parents’ are just people that had sex. [applauds] Well done parents, truly; you’re qualified for nothing.
Say your dad didn’t realize he crushed your childhood dream. Whoops. It actually happens a lot. It is very rare that any of us would be born with the luck and privilege of being in a family that actually understands and encourages our childhood dreams so we magically become pop-stars and actors by the time we’re eighteen. For the rest of us losers in the real world, we have to do it all ourselves. We don’t have any help from anyone. So you know what I say to you? Stop dwelling on pasts that could have been, and come to grips with your real (short meaningless) life, and get on the ice! It is never too late.”
Also:
Sometimes, parents are just so shit. Like honestly, what did any of us do to deserve—
‘You don’t have the Disney Channel?!’ - We don’t get Disney Channel unless we have ‘cable,’ in the UK. Not everyone can afford Sky, okay? I grew up in the ghetto. My family couldn’t afford Sky. BBC1, that’s what I had. [laughs]
......really??
Dan: Awwww! Matey bubble bath!!
Phil: Matey! I think we've reminisced about Matey on this channel before. [laughs]
Dan: Have we?
Phil: Yes! [pause] Are you having a—
Dan: It was so amazing!
Phil: —a nostalgia cry about Matey?
Dan: I used to get, like, SO excited for it.
Phil: It's the best.
Dan: My mum used to like NEVER buy it, 'cause it was like expensive.
Phil: Whaaat.
ALL CREDIT TO oqua who has all the amazing videos on a compilation and the transcripts that it won't let me link about him complaining about his financial situation. The theme: him complaining and also trying to include himself in the shitty parents category.
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Lara
smol bean
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kuensukki wrote:
Lara wrote:Dan has never said he was upset because they couldn't provide him with things that he wanted,he never said they were poor,just that they didn't have a lot of money and he's never seemed embarrassed or upset by that. He has also mentioned that his family spent money on traveling instead of material things and he was grateful for that because friends of his who had money never made those kinds of memories.
He has talked about how his mom rode on space mountain with him 5 times in a row even though she was scared and dealt with motion sickness and it meant a lot to him.
He also talked about when he was 10 and his mom called him out of school to take him to Disneyland Paris for a week.

So he isn't always making them look like bad parents(well his mom anyway) and she also supported him when he dropped out of law school.

What I do find interesting though is that I've never heard him saying anything negative about his grandmother,I mean he seems more amused when talking about her more than when he is talking about the rest of his family and I found that interesting and something that I completely relate to and I think it's nice that he has at least one member of his family that he seems to have a close connection to.
oct 18 Liveshow:
So it’s kind of cool that YouTube is just this free thing where everyone can watch it and whatever. And all the things like merch and all these things, you know, they’re just… they’re just… they’re not… they’re just, what, additional? Should I say? It’s not the content, you don’t need to get it. It’s just a nice thing for the people that have money that can get it. Because when I was a teenager, my family didn’t have any money. I had no merchandise, I never went to concerts, so I know what it’s like. So, I’m saying, if you want to spend money on anything, you should spend it on the charity Stand Up To Cancer stuff, so if you want a poster you should get that. If you’ve just got like a pound, then get the charity song. ‘Cause that’s what’s important. But I do appreciate, you know… only get things if you want. Don’t feel like you ever have to. You know. ‘Cause I appreciate it. I’ve been there.”
ISG:
“Here’s the thing about parents: When you’re little and you’re growing up, you see your parents as these giant, all-powerful superheroes that must know everything, because they’re adults. Well, the closer you get to being an adult, the less you realize that is true. You see, ‘parents’ are just people that had sex. [applauds] Well done parents, truly; you’re qualified for nothing.
Say your dad didn’t realize he crushed your childhood dream. Whoops. It actually happens a lot. It is very rare that any of us would be born with the luck and privilege of being in a family that actually understands and encourages our childhood dreams so we magically become pop-stars and actors by the time we’re eighteen. For the rest of us losers in the real world, we have to do it all ourselves. We don’t have any help from anyone. So you know what I say to you? Stop dwelling on pasts that could have been, and come to grips with your real (short meaningless) life, and get on the ice! It is never too late.”
Also:
Sometimes, parents are just so shit. Like honestly, what did any of us do to deserve—
‘You don’t have the Disney Channel?!’ - We don’t get Disney Channel unless we have ‘cable,’ in the UK. Not everyone can afford Sky, okay? I grew up in the ghetto. My family couldn’t afford Sky. BBC1, that’s what I had. [laughs]
......really??
Dan: Awwww! Matey bubble bath!!
Phil: Matey! I think we've reminisced about Matey on this channel before. [laughs]
Dan: Have we?
Phil: Yes! [pause] Are you having a—
Dan: It was so amazing!
Phil: —a nostalgia cry about Matey?
Dan: I used to get, like, SO excited for it.
Phil: It's the best.
Dan: My mum used to like NEVER buy it, 'cause it was like expensive.
Phil: Whaaat.
ALL CREDIT TO oqua who has all the amazing videos on a compilation and the transcripts that it won't let me link about him complaining about his financial situation. The theme: him complaining and also trying to include himself in the shitty parents category.


He wasn't upset that he couldn't afford the bubble bath,he said it was something he looked forward to because it was a rare treat and he seemed proud of the fact that he paid for his own piano lessons. I'm not saying he's never said he was unhappy but I don't think he "complains" as much about them as people think he does. And I think it's nice that he's so open about not being super close to his parents,it's a reality for so many people,including myself and I think it's nice having someone on YouTube be open about that struggle,I appreciate the honesty.
scientia
phabergé
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kuensukki wrote:
What I do find interesting though is that I've never heard him saying anything negative about his grandmother,I mean he seems more amused when talking about her more than when he is talking about the rest of his family and I found that interesting and something that I completely relate to and I think it's nice that he has at least one member of his family that he seems to have a close connection to.
oct 18 Liveshow:
So it’s kind of cool that YouTube is just this free thing where everyone can watch it and whatever. And all the things like merch and all these things, you know, they’re just… they’re just… they’re not… they’re just, what, additional? Should I say? It’s not the content, you don’t need to get it. It’s just a nice thing for the people that have money that can get it. Because when I was a teenager, my family didn’t have any money. I had no merchandise, I never went to concerts, so I know what it’s like. So, I’m saying, if you want to spend money on anything, you should spend it on the charity Stand Up To Cancer stuff, so if you want a poster you should get that. If you’ve just got like a pound, then get the charity song. ‘Cause that’s what’s important. But I do appreciate, you know… only get things if you want. Don’t feel like you ever have to. You know. ‘Cause I appreciate it. I’ve been there.”
ISG:
“Here’s the thing about parents: When you’re little and you’re growing up, you see your parents as these giant, all-powerful superheroes that must know everything, because they’re adults. Well, the closer you get to being an adult, the less you realize that is true. You see, ‘parents’ are just people that had sex. [applauds] Well done parents, truly; you’re qualified for nothing.
Say your dad didn’t realize he crushed your childhood dream. Whoops. It actually happens a lot. It is very rare that any of us would be born with the luck and privilege of being in a family that actually understands and encourages our childhood dreams so we magically become pop-stars and actors by the time we’re eighteen. For the rest of us losers in the real world, we have to do it all ourselves. We don’t have any help from anyone. So you know what I say to you? Stop dwelling on pasts that could have been, and come to grips with your real (short meaningless) life, and get on the ice! It is never too late.”

A little OT, but I've never understood the whole idea of his "parents crushing [his] dreams" and them not understanding what he does for a living (not just in this ISG video, it's something he's heavily implied often).

In his Draw My Life video at around :28, he makes his parents out to be young, cool, hip; his father was a DJ and would sneak him onto film sets. This, to me, doesn't seem like the kind of parent who wouldn't "get" Dan's acting and performing ambitions? Unless it's a situation where parents want their children to learn from their own mistakes...or it's another case of Dan's own interpretation of his past? Anyway, random interlude but it's something I've been thinking of for a while.
cherrybomb3
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isg: It was okay, not horrible. Something that bothered me though was the parent shade. Just the overall way Dan talked about parents including himself in the "shitty parents rant kinda made him seem spoiled in a way. Dude, there was children living on nothing with their parent working 24 hours to provide and you're complaining because you didn't get a lesson paid or an expensive bubble bath? It seems so one sided to me too. Like, he has this huge platform that he uses to shade his parents left and right and they can never respond to it (and isn't it uncomfortable to his grandma that watches his videos?). There usually is a miscommunication with parents and I feel like he's just bitter at this point (atleast his videos show that) that he wasn't a privileged rich kid whos parents were 100% understanding and supportive, but so what? He had a house and food, and parents who filmed him in the bath and played games with him. At times it seems like he has an idealistic idea of how parents should be, and since they didn't meet all his expectations, that he will continue to talk poorly about them because he can. I love the guy, but I also know that sometimes parents need to work hard to provide, and if that's the case, it's not really their fault. He's perfectly free to talk about his parents, but I don't think its exactly fair to look at it from his words only.

its difficult to judge the relationship dan has with his parents, because we're obviously only seeing the occasional bits of shade regarding the howell family's financial situation. for all we know, the uneasy relationship between dan and his parents could be for far more serious reasons. now i may have just been reading too many oqua fanfics and reading into the 2009 timeline, but there is always the possibility that dans mum and dad dislike the idea of dan living with another guy, platonic or not. it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that they don't particularly care for his youtube career (maybe because of the adrian drama). theres a whole host of reasons why dan might want to call out his parents than just 'ugh we couldn't get bubble bath i hate u mom'
TrAlexa888
not a first-time poster
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thephandommenace wrote:
I'm interested to know why people here (especially the longtime fans) are so interested in/entertained by after so long that you still watch and support them so loyally? Could it be the interaction and feeling closer to them than you would with a TV show/other fandoms? Do you go to them when you're having a bad day?
I was thinking about this a couple days ago, I found dnp in 2012, watched them casually for about a year, got really deep into the phandom in 2013, but after lavitarica left her blog because of "entertainment value" or whatever (if you don't know who that is she was basically a psycho-analyser of deppy back in the day, she studied their body language and had super in depth analysis of important vids, she was pretty popular but around the end of 2014 she left her blog and blocked all her essays with it so no one can really read her stuff now:/) she had a pretty big influence on me so i stopped watching them partly for her leaving, but also kind of lost interest, but I came back again end of 2016/beginning of 2017 because I had a strange craving for reading deep analysis on their behaviour. In the process of finding my place back in the fandom and catching up with all that i had missed, I realized why I am so deep in the trash can when it comes to dnp. With no other fandom have i ever been so obsessed, they basically take over my life. Anyway I think its because of the ambiguity of their ~unconfirmed~ relationship. Its a giant mystery, and no matter how much I ship them, or read thousands of words on why they are involved romantically, It still remains a mystery. To me there are periods of time when Im 100% about their romantic involvement, but then something happens that brings up my doubts and then also raises the fact that we only see a small amount of their lives and the inevitable truth that they possibly could be just friends atm, or just keeping it together for the money and the branding, etc. There are tons of different ways one could think about the REALITY of their relationship. I mean we can speculate their codependency and alleged inseparable bond all we want, but we have no idea what is going on inside their minds, and it could make perfect sense that what they show us is what they truly are, but with the lack of evidence, as lawyers say it, we do not have a case. (sorry if i made ya'll lawyers cringe i hate myself) I will never not be curious about the reality of their relationship. I think i will soon grow tired of constantly obsessing over them, but my eagerness to know about the truth will never fade.
Im so far up their relationship's ass that i wrote "finding out about their truth of dan and phil's relationship" on my "things to look forward to" list.
canireally
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kuensukki wrote: him complaining and also trying to include himself in the shitty parents category.
i think that's the case, i feel it is meant to be another relatable aspect of his 'act', and not necessarily the 100% truth. the problem for me, not only about this, but generally abouthis vids, is that neither the act, the internet persona, nor his 'real' self is clear enough. if he's the cool, tough, sad guy wearing black, making high quality art let me see that guy please.
and then when he does something not fitting the character, there's no need to explain it's ironical, or a joke, bc it's obvious.

And if there's obviously a persona on the internet, of course we are not getting any real insight of his life, any real anecdotes. And that's cool. if it's played well. But for me, it isn't. That's why there are those awkward moments, when he seems to enjoy something but knows it doesn't fit to that picture and wants to make clear he isn't enjoying it (horse prince, shiny suit, pastel clothes etc)
LeftHandedism wrote:
coffeepenguin wrote: I find Tomska's vlogs very insightful, for example, I don't watch his main channel, I don't necessarily like his sense of humor, but you get to see him being productive and not being productive and you get to understand why he's not when he's not. Yes, I know that Dan'll never make vlogs like that, but he could talk about it more in liveshows so that people understand his process more. Idk, all of it just makes me sad :(
So yeah, vlogging wouldn't work for Deppy to show their process, but I do agree that it would serve Dan and his audience well if he revealed more of his process and challenges in liveshows. That would probably require him to change his perception of his audience to considering us more mature and thoughtful consumers than he currently seems to, though.
I don't think he's ever going to make vlogs, it's just not his attitude to yt, he doesn't want to show his actual life, he wants to be appreciated only for his content. but the thing is, i think it has to be 100% you when making art, not directly about you, ofc, but even then, it will tell real things about you, your personality, your experiences (similar to how it works with musicians, writers etc), you can't tell a meaningful story from a comfortable distance, half-hearted.

And as his videos are his creative work, and he said he measures himself by his creative work, i don't think it should make a difference what he thinks about his audience. (or wait was he joking than)
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lishachi
eclipse shirt
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thephandommenace wrote:I'm interested to know why people here (especially the longtime fans) are so interested in/entertained by after so long that you still watch and support them so loyally? Could it be the interaction and feeling closer to them than you would with a TV show/other fandoms? Do you go to them when you're having a bad day?
im probably a short term fan compared to the others here, I started watching in late 2015, around october i think. (spooky week got me interested! still does) i always found something to do with 'dan and phil' on tumblr, in tags that weren't linked to them, just randomly, i always just ignored it.

then i started watching markiplier and jacksepticeye (who i still watch now!) and saw d&p play five nights and freddys (i think it was recommended after marks) and i was like hm, these guys are funny. after that it was me delving into tumblr and realising this was a massive thing and these guys had a hugeeee following and tumblr was crazy about them. i found all the theories etc etc and actually found gg and then this place (after people left gg i found some that moved here and found this website much nicer and felt more comfortable joining :D ) and eventually joined last year.

at the beginning i was intrigued by their ??mystery?? of 'are they or aren't they' etc etc and was very interested how they've kept people almost guessing for so long. i thought they were smart. then as they got more open and care-free i enjoyed them for themselves. they were and are such a pleasure to watch. especially recently, its just nice to listen and watch them have fun and bounce off each other and they make me laugh and sometimes i just really need to laugh. (uni is hard lol)

they just seem like nice people, they make good videos. im not completely obsessed with them, i probably was on the verge of that, but recently im just happy to watch and discuss and look at you guys theories/discussions. simply, i sometimes need to not do essays and lose my shit, so i watch them and they make me happy. as a near 20 year old im relating to them more as human beings with their experiences (albeit they are quite rich and i have a student loan, but that aside... ) its just nice.
:biflag: :blackheart:
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Birdie
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I’m so conflicted when it comes to the way Dan talks about his parents. On the one hand he says he basically lived in the ghetto and had no money (which I think is an exaggeration. Not saying they were rich but they probably weren’t as poor as he says either judging by what we know about them), that his parents crushed his dreams or whatever but then he also seems to have all these really good memories about them. What I don’t understand is his bitterness about his parents not supporting him on the one hand and then on the other hand admitting that they had no money to support his dreams. Which one is it? Did they not support him because they didn’t want to or because they couldn’t? Is there actually more to this or is he playing it up to be relatable?

That’s what I’m asking myself even though I shouldn’t because that’s his business and I feel invasive discussing it. (Not saying it is invasive, it’s just me.) But well, Dan is such a mystery, always alluding to stuff but never explaining anything. Not that he has to but of course his fans are going to be intrigued.
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kuensukki
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lara there's a HUGE difference with being honest about not being close to your parents and painting them as shitty parents that were for the most part not understanding and neglectful. Those are extreme accusations that I have trouble believing because when he's in a good "mood" he'll suddenly share a cute anecdote about his mom or dad and then the next day it's back to the insults. Personally, he seemed pretty well supported, given that his college was payed for by his family (I don't think he ever brought up student loans), they did provide him something most people don't get.

The threshold of shitty parent is different from everyone (and it's not a comparison game), but I hate the idea that people will project their own issues onto dans parental ones. Also, he as well encourages it by becoming a part of the "bad parent group". As canireally pointed out, it has become a part of the DINOF brand to complain about his parents and talk about being poor and unprivileged as a child. In live shows he's more likely to speak of something positive that happened with his family. The way I see dan, he has trouble communicating what's bothering him so we get those broody spells where he's in a weird mood for no reason whatsoever and that could have been what happened to his relationship with his parents. I'm tired of people blindly defending him and his feelings/perceptions (that are clearly always more negative then reality: aka last radio show) and not giving any thought or understanding for his parents. Again not saying his feelings aren't valid, but that we are hearing from a very biased source
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thephandommenace
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Oops, there's a lot of people to reply to :)
Thanks captainspacegoat and Birdie on the interaction thing, it was interesting when you said you weren't that interested in talking to/ contacting them. It also made me realise 'interaction' was the wrong choice of words - momoroki's post explains it better (great post btw! And eeeeeee Hannibal! *fangirls*), but I think elements like peeking into their home life, seeing them interact with and encourage their fans, them liking the same things we do, being #relateable and so on, they all create the illusion of being an online best friend and they feel closer to home somehow. So rather than 'interaction', I guess I meant to ask, 'is the feeling of closeness part of the appeal?' Or maybe it's the same thing, idk.

Skylar sorry to hear about your trouble. 'Sin bin' made me chuckle. I'm glad for the phandom's sake they're uploading more regularly. No more drought! Let our Deppy thirst be quenched! Keep us hydrated! (Hmm.) So maybe I'm not that put off by their regular uploads, I might just be naturally on my way out.

It seems to be a common theme that people joined 2012/13ish, then got bored in 2014, and then came back. I'm the same, though I didn't get really into them until late 2016 when out of curiosity I checked up on them again, and inadvertently did a Cady Heron!
Maybe one of the reasons I gravitated back towards them was isolation. My friends are all hundreds of miles away, I'm third-wheeled in my own uni flat, I don't get on with people on my course, etc. Not only do Deppy seem kind and funny, they like all the same things and are surrounded by a community that also likes to discuss other fandoms with each other. In other words, I felt like I found my peeps

Generally speaking I think 2014 was an alienating year for YT audiences. The gap between creator and viewer never felt so large. There was a noticeable increase in sponning, there were YouTuber books, there were the sexual allegations that shook the community. Altogether I felt incredibly put off and avoided "YouTube culture" for a couple of years.

TrAlexa888 it is a very interesting mystery. I feel not knowing the answers and the frustration of knowing that I might never know is partially what's making me get bored now though :(

lisachi def relate to the uni situation hang in there!
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000dia000
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I'm sorry, but I think people are getting too defensive of Dan and his childhood. He makes unsatisfactory comments about growing up by for ffs his childhood seems normal? And claiming that his parents don't approve of him being in a non-platonic relationship with his beat friend isn't founded on anything. That's literally confusing fanfiction with reality.

I think people are ignoring the important aspects of Dan's personality. For one Dan is bitter, he doesn't forget, he doesn't forgive. He's negative and pessimistic. He always stresses the bad aspects of a situation. Dan barely ever says anything good about something, only how it inconvenienced him or how it could have been improved. He can't move on. He remembers the worst in everything. Listen to him talk about school, he stresses how much of a nerd he was when he was in a large friendship group and went drinking. He likes to twist things negatively and doesn't think about the positive aspects about growing up. I think this influences him in the comments he makes about childhood. And that I think he's estranges from his parents now, so a rather bland relationship makes him believe in a bland childhood.

But I'm not going to sympathize with Dan for not having bubble bath. My parents didn't buy that. And my parents didn't have money to travel. And you know what? I had a great childhood. But I also have a tendency to remember the bad aspects before the good, because that's human nature.

And I think if we're going to sympathize with Dan not having Matey or not having the initiave to create and do.his. job. Then you're idealizing a fictional character. Dan's a real person and he's not caught our for the real world and my patience is being worn thin that we continuously defend him over and over again.
:cactus:
uglyamerican
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It has taken me days hours to catch up after being busy with a new project. People, Dan is in a mood. It happens. He'll be fine. Plus I'd rather not him fake his moods, or force himself to produce something he's not ready to do - that's not good for long term mental health.

ISG - what I took away from it was the obvious fielding of questions from males - he seems to be emphasizing his probably not very large male audience lately. Anyway, I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't mind the series - what part of their apartment does he film it in?

Looking forward to watching Phil's LS this morning - sounds like more substance than the usual shoutouts.
cherrybomb3
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Generally speaking I think 2014 was an alienating year for YT audiences. The gap between creator and viewer never felt so large. There was a noticeable increase in sponning, there were YouTuber books, there were the sexual allegations that shook the community. Altogether I felt incredibly put off and avoided "YouTube culture" for a couple of years.
i bloody love analysing youtube culture like this. just seeing how various time periods and events have affected the creators, users, and general landscape. weirdly though, an argument could be made that had the opposite experience; with 2014 being a more involved and open year with regards to audience interaction following the rather distant and transformative 2012-13 period
cherrybomb3
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000dia000 wrote:I'm sorry, but I think people are getting too defensive of Dan and his childhood. He makes unsatisfactory comments about growing up by for ffs his childhood seems normal? And claiming that his parents don't approve of him being in a non-platonic relationship with his beat friend isn't founded on anything. That's literally confusing fanfiction with reality.
ouch. tbh i was basing this on the tweets that dan put out in 2009 about biblical arguments with his dad and all that. but yeah youre probs right
I think people are ignoring the important aspects of Dan's personality. For one Dan is bitter, he doesn't forget, he doesn't forgive. He's negative and pessimistic. He always stresses the bad aspects of a situation. Dan barely ever says anything good about something, only how it inconvenienced him or how it could have been improved. He can't move on. He remembers the worst in everything. Listen to him talk about school, he stresses how much of a nerd he was when he was in a large friendship group and went drinking. He likes to twist things negatively and doesn't think about the positive aspects about growing up. I think this influences him in the comments he makes about childhood. And that I think he's estranges from his parents now, so a rather bland relationship makes him believe in a bland childhood.

But I'm not going to sympathize with Dan for not having bubble bath. My parents didn't buy that. And my parents didn't have money to travel. And you know what? I had a great childhood. But I also have a tendency to remember the bad aspects before the good, because that's human nature.

And I think if we're going to sympathize with Dan not having Matey or not having the initiave to create and do.his. job. Then you're idealizing a fictional character. Dan's a real person and he's not caught our for the real world and my patience is being worn thin that we continuously defend him over and over again.
fsr i really enjoy people dragging dan like this. not sure whether it just makes me happy that the entire fanbase isnt some radicalised cult of phan, or whether its some weird love/hate feeling i have towards dan emerging.
seriously though, it does all paint dan in a light that some might consider problematic - if he is knowingly creating a persona by exploiting genuine issues (parental problems, sexuality, anxiety etc) that is
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