Dan & Phil Part 34: It's a post-baking universe

[melon lord]

meh, the 2009etc stuff is classic. i thought we were mostly talking about the "new developments" i.e. that for a lot of people gamingmas/the bloopers sealed the deal that they are a couple while some (like me) are still pretty much on the same "i'm on the fence" level as before

I am so much on the fence it has an ass dent fence crease?

But still I need some bants and laughter and fun so I still suskrib to the two dorks

missemma and papierklemmen and gnostic, I'm glad you all found something relatable in my post, I'm glad I brought it up because I don't feel like such a weirdo now

[papierklemmen]

meh, the 2009etc stuff is classic. i thought we were mostly talking about the "new developments" i.e. that for a lot of people gamingmas/the bloopers sealed the deal that they are a couple while some (like me) are still pretty much on the same "i'm on the fence" level as before

I am so much on the fence it has an ass dent fence crease?

But still I need some bants and laughter and fun so I still suskrib to the two dorks

missemma and papierklemmen and gnostic, I'm glad you all found something relatable in my post, I'm glad I brought it up because I don't feel like such a weirdo now

#relatable

[Truth_or_cliche]

Okay guys:
1. Flirty af in 2009 ('I want to be there so you don't have to be brave' and other famous quotes, but lots and lots of ordinary 'I miss you's and 'I can't wait for the weekend's. Also #distancesucks).
2. Dan goes to Manchester University, spends a lot of time at Phil's 1 bedroom apartment, finally moves in with him. They take a holiday to Portugal just because they want to.
4. They move to London together, socialise and act as a unit, even when Dan is all like 'Phil is doing Phil things in his Phil life' and Phil is like 'I wonder who my future wife is'. They continue to socialise and act as a unit four years in.
5. Japhan, their dream trip, with their fancy suite that looks designed for newlyweds.
6. Single since 2009 and nothing indicates they want their current situation to change.
Bonus: voldy

People talk about heart eyes and flirting, but I can tell you that's not what seals the deal for the majority of us phannies. (I know, it could all be a coincidence or they could have been tricking the fans for 7 years, but still, it's quite a lot to explain).

Happy holidays!

Yeah it's definitely their past that keeps me from discarding the idea of phan altogether otherwise I would probably be anti-phan. I go back and forth on whether or not I believe they are together nowadays, but I just can't get over all that shit that happened back in the day. As a shipper it's fun to make a big deal out of a "heart eyes Howell" moment, but if that was all there was to the ship it probably would have sunk a long time ago. But I really don't know what I think about them being together now. I lean towards bffs, who are also exes, but they both still like each other, but I honestly have no idea what to make of them lol. But yeah I agree it's definitely more than things like heart eyes Howell that make me go hmmm...

[mysterylovescompany]

same though. there are so many coincidences that have fallen in with the entire idea of those two being together, or just them in general. Like for an example, that video of phil saying "sorry girls, i've chosen daniel" or his old buffyphil account where he comments something like "i think stalking a person to become their friend is rather weird" and not to mention their entire story of meeting sounds like something ripped straight out of a movie or a book, voldy conveniently being leaked, all the evidence put next to the anti evidence and somehow maintaining that perfect ambiguity like a timelord is arranging everything in place, but then you remember these are real life people and its just?

oops im rambling again

Maybe i'm going out on a limb here, but i don't think voldy being leaked was convenient for anyone. Like, depending on whether you think it's factual or not, it still manages to fit into your interpretation of events. If you think voldy was a prank, the vid itself only confirms that. And if you think it was real, voldy suits that narrative as well. It doesn't really do much in terms of proving or disproving phan. I think it's absurd to think that the leak was all too convenient, because there's nothing neat about how voldy was released.

Not that i want to get into a big phan debate but i believe that voldy was not leaked on purpose, judging by how diligent deppy are about removing all traces of it from the internet. If it was originally filmed as a prank i am sure they very much regret making it.

[lefthandedism]

Not that i want to get into a big phan debate but i believe that voldy was not leaked on purpose, judging by how diligent deppy are about removing all traces of it from the internet. If it was originally filmed as a prank i am sure they very much regret making it.

I thought it was well-established (or at least convincingly argued?) that it originally was revealed in September 2011 through a YouTube glitch that unprivated private videos? Supposedly there was evidence that it happened to other private videos at the same time.

[hannah]

same though. there are so many coincidences that have fallen in with the entire idea of those two being together, or just them in general. Like for an example, that video of phil saying "sorry girls, i've chosen daniel" or his old buffyphil account where he comments something like "i think stalking a person to become their friend is rather weird" and not to mention their entire story of meeting sounds like something ripped straight out of a movie or a book, voldy conveniently being leaked, all the evidence put next to the anti evidence and somehow maintaining that perfect ambiguity like a timelord is arranging everything in place, but then you remember these are real life people and its just?

oops im rambling again

Maybe i'm going out on a limb here, but i don't think voldy being leaked was convenient for anyone. Like, depending on whether you think it's factual or not, it still manages to fit into your interpretation of events. If you think voldy was a prank, the vid itself only confirms that. And if you think it was real, voldy suits that narrative as well. It doesn't really do much in terms of proving or disproving phan. I think it's absurd to think that the leak was all too convenient, because there's nothing neat about how voldy was released.

Not that i want to get into a big phan debate but i believe that voldy was not leaked on purpose, judging by how diligent deppy are about removing all traces of it from the internet. If it was originally filmed as a prank i am sure they very much regret making it.

I probably should have used different words here. I don't think it was leaked on purpose at all, but I say it was conveniently leaked in the sense that if that video never reached public surface there would probably be a lot more non-believers and I just find it astonishing, like you said, how even when it exists it can still fit into just about anyones narrative while still maintaining objective ambiguity.

[mysterylovescompany]

I probably should have used different words here. I don't think it was leaked on purpose at all, but I say it was conveniently leaked in the sense that if that video never reached public surface there would probably be a lot more non-believers and I just find it astonishing, like you said, how even when it exists it can still fit into just about anyones narrative while still maintaining objective ambiguity.

Lol maybe that's just the magic of d&p. But i don't find it too fantastical. We just spend a lot of time analysing so we become hyperaware of how the vid can be taken from all points of view. But it's because deppy said that it's a prank that we even consider that it could be taken more than one way. Maybe they didn't intend the ambiguity, but that's what they ended up with!

And LeftHandedism i totally agree but its just that i have seen people argue the other way ('why would they release a vid like that if it were real/fake?') and it shows they don't fully understand the situation of how it was leaked. Which i can understand because not everyone is a deppy stalker like us. I didn't know about the vday vid until i had watched deppy for a year.

[Philena]

I know I'm a bit late to the party (and also not on the current topic), but I loved Gamingmas so much! I was pleasantly surprised that they made it all 24 25 days! After what has truly been a shitty year in almost every other way, Dan and Phil managed to be such a bright light in my December. I am not looking forward to the deppy withdraw symptoms that are sure to manifest in the near future.

Happy xmas, happy holidays, happy winter to all!

[anathema]

I 100% agree here, because lets be real they will never do a proper coming out video, they are certainly not the type to start smooching on camera or do other pda. To me this is as good as it gets, boncas for me was the turning point in how they portray their real relationship to us. They are not that good actors and they are both awful at lying.

I agree, they will never do a "proper" coming out video because hey, it's been done and Deps like to think outside the box and not be like every other YTer out there. Boncas was the turning of the page for me as well, and for some folks in the audience who all inhaled at the same time wondering what.the.hell. are they planning.

Their lying skills need serious, serious work.

Let's be honest...they probably ARE out, but they WAY they are out isn't going to satisfy everyone. There are some who still want/need the public declaration, and by saying they are straight until they publically say so is, in my mind, rather insulting.

Omg, I was discussing all of this with a friend a little bit ago! We were calling it a "subliminal coming out" (yes, we're quite ridiculous ) Like it happened, yet people still don't really know it, and that 'different feeling' everyone is talking about is just the aftermath. this is irrelevant, im sorry i have nothing to offer to the discussion. carry on

Let me start out by saying that not only do I think there's a good chance they're together, I'm also 100% on team "they won't ever do a proper coming out but if they want to come out they will make it obvious they're together in a subtle way". However, I really don't agree with this, especially the part in bold. Don't get me wrong, I think that the whole "straight until proven otherwise" attitude is super disrespectful. But I don't think this is a case of that. Yes, D&P have been acting differently. They've been acting much more comfortable and natural, especially around each other. But, nothing about it has proved they're dating. A "subliminal" coming out would be Dan saying that Phil is "the worst boyfriend in the world". It would be "our bedroom". It would be Phil kissing Dan on the cheek and not editing it out. It would be them adopting a dog together (because, let's be real, what 100% platonic pair of friends would do that?). I just don't see how you can call their new behavior "coming out", because none of it is strictly romantic. Besides that, Dan and Phil are Mr. and Mr. "we don't talk about our personal private lives because it's personal and private." I don't see them coming out (subliminally or otherwise) until they have to (have to = getting a dog, child, etc. together).

On another note: I'm super glad they finished undertale, I really liked the episode. I loved festive Dil and I ESPECIALLY loved the pinof bloopers

[blu]

Also, yes, a lot of things point to them being together

I'm also a cynical fuck and think that it's too ideal and fairytale and like how the heck are they going through SO MUCH and so many awful people and snooping people and shitty people and are still going strong? Like it's too perfect for me, but maybe I'm just a miserable shit that can't accept that something goes right for someone else

same though. there are so many coincidences that have fallen in with the entire idea of those two being together, or just them in general. Like for an example, that video of phil saying "sorry girls, i've chosen daniel" or his old buffyphil account where he comments something like "i think stalking a person to become their friend is rather weird" and not to mention their entire story of meeting sounds like something ripped straight out of a movie or a book, voldy conveniently being leaked, all the evidence put next to the anti evidence and somehow maintaining that perfect ambiguity like a timelord is arranging everything in place, but then you remember these are real life people and its just?

oops im rambling again

can someone explain what the buffy phil account is?

[vincentian]

I also wanted belatedly to say that I enjoyed gamingmas a lot and I'm very impressed with the effort made to upload consistently for 24 days.

Also the last 2-hour Undertale episode may be my favourite gaming video of gamingmas/of DAPG ever (?), especially the parts with date with Alphys/their reaction to it and their reaction/Phil's voicing of all scenes with Asriel (I might have been rewatching those a lot ). I was not into Undertale that much at first, some episodes were better than the others. And the only other playthrough of the game I watched on youtube was funny but did not have the full ending (i.e. the entire 10th episode) so I was unaware it existed lol. I'm so happy I saw it and the boys' reaction, it was v cute and they seemed to be genuinely moved by certain parts.

+Pinof 8 bloopers were a nice (and very long-awaited ) Christmas gift.

[sentinel]

i'm really glad that melon lord and gnostic already expressed a lot of my thoughts because lately i realised im not articulate enough to express opinions without coming off as an asshole lol. i really don't see what a lot of ppl see e.g. tension, heart eyes etc. (i'm always surprised when someone says that dan is checking phil out in a specific moment, because i'm a compulsive lip biter and do it during conversations a lot, and also have a habit of looking up & down people's faces and looking at their lips/teeth when tney're talking... do i come off as horny as fuck? i should probably control myself).

but i also don't agree with the "people see what they want to see" narrative. when i look at deppy, i want to see a successful lgbt power couple. they would rock the world! ESPECIALLY as bisexual/pan/no lables guys - there is a serious lack of representation in that department. that's why i was so quick to put phan goggles on when i thought i saw glimpses of something "more than just friends" in the earlier gamingmas videos. i try to look at their "moments" from all angles and see what other people see but a lot of times... there's just nothing. and me hoping they are together won't make it a reality.

anyway, the bloopers didn't really give me any food for thought, i thought it was just mindless fun it was supposed to be, so hopefully there will be something else to discuss in 2017.

I am sorry, but is dangerously selfish comment. The do not owe you or us to be anyone's representation and this is in no way connected to their actual relationship. More so, their personas have never been about their sexualities so even if it turned out that they were together they wouldn't suddenly turn into the new Laci Greens.

[papierklemmen]

I am sorry, but is dangerously selfish comment. The do not owe you or us to be anyone's representation and this is in no way connected to their actual relationship. More so, their personas have never been about their sexualities so even if it turned out that they were together they wouldn't suddenly turn into the new Laci Greens.

umm... what? my comment had nothing to do with what you're talking about. by saying "i want to see..." i didn't mean "i want them to come out and represent". i mean it as the opposite of "i don't think they're a couple because i'm a dangirl/want to fuck them/want them to be straight for my sake". as in, an argument that's sometimes brought up on why people don't think they're together ("they think they're straight because they want them to be straight and marry them"). i'm saying that i want to see what everyone sees, those signals that they're together, the "heart eyes", because i'd very much like for them to be a couple, but i still unfortunately don't see it except for those moments when i'm in a phan goggles mode.

[Phantasy]

For what it's worth here's my take and thoughts on the nature of D&P's relationship...

I think first you need to rewind the clock to 2009 and establish their mental states and drives at the time. In 2009 Dan was wrapping up with his secondary education, had a small group of friends and girlfriend, but was otherwise still pining for someone or something he could really connect with—you get the sense that he kept to himself a lot and was going through that age of "ugh, nobody gets me" and was particularly indifferent towards his family. With his theatre experiences behind him now, his primary escapism outlet was YouTube—he references in TABINOF that at one point he had viewed nearly 40k videos, YouTube wasn't just his idle entertainment, it was his obsession. Dan idolized youtubers, and given how relatively small the platform was at the time, he started developing connections with these creators and would message and leave comments like any other fanboy, and some of them even responded back. Enter Phil.

Phil was wrapping up his university studies and had been making videos for a few years already by 2009, while not huge, he had a steadily growing audience, which included Dan. Phil was still presumably still in an emotionally low point after the death of his flat mate of 3 years and when Dan reached out to Phil and expressed their common interests, they started to naturally click. Phil had already started to explore his bisexuality by this point, and here was this cute younger guy showing interest in all the same things who was clearly looking to connect with someone on more than just a surface level, and so the flirtations began.

In the beginning I think there were clear romantic overtones to their relationship, which included intimacy and sex. At the core Dan was enamored with Phil (maybe even in a slightly opportunistic sense) and after they finally meet, distance was hardly a limiting factor and it served as a nice escape from Dan's home life which he longed to get far away from. Dan of course eventually moved to Manchester to attend university and after a year moved in with Phil (though they practically spent most of their time together anyway).

Here's where conjecture begins... At some point during this time, maybe even as a condition of moving in together, I think they decided, likely at Dan's insistence, that they put their romantic relationship aside in order for living together and working together to truly work. I think Dan was having trouble understanding his sexuality and chalked up their earlier romantic engagement to experimentation and that they'd be better off as just friends, hence the anti-gay, anti-phan overtones of 2012 and after. I suspect too that part of the heavy denials were aimed towards his family, and while Dan's parents aren't too computer savvy, Dan's brother would have found evidence of shipping and rumors (and maybe even voldy) all too easily—even if Dan was accepting of his sexuality, he certainly wasn't ready to make it known to his growing audience (and family), and with shipping coming to a feverish pitch around this time, he probably felt cornered and lashed out.

Here is what I think is fundamentally at the core of their relationship: Dan is loyal and co-dependent and Phil has a deep (and potentially unrequited) romantic love for him. Dan owes Phil everything for taking an interest in him and giving him the motivation and encouragement to start making videos, so he has this deep unbreakable sense of appreciation and loyalty for Phil. Meanwhile Phil is hopelessly and romantically in love with Dan, and has sacrificed his own feelings when/if Dan put limits on the terms of their relationship.

What's clear is that they are inseparable. I think they have eased into a mutually beneficial status where they both get the fulfillment and support they need from each other—certainly there is a level of intimacy there, but whether it has returned to anything of a sexual nature is impossible to tell.

I think 2017 will be revealing in many different ways. I think this past year was their way of validating their existence in a purely creative sense without the "gimmick" of labels—you get the impression from Dan especially that he doesn't want to be known as the bi/gay youtuber, or as a YouTube couple, he wants to stand purely on the creativity. I think they've proved everything they've needed to prove and now 2017 will have a glass closet type of transparency. No more denials or affirmations, just living their lives and people can interprets it any way they wish. Phil is turning 30, they've made a ludicrous amount of money in 2016, and I'm sure they'll move, likely to Brighton to be closer with their friends and have more space while they transition to the next phase of their lives, which will of course include a corgi (fight me team shib). I wouldn't be surprised too if they started setting up more non-dan/phil branded types of ventures to set up income streams for the future. By all accounts 2017 should be a quieter year, but may in fact prove more revealing than any other.

[momoroki]

I 100% agree here, because lets be real they will never do a proper coming out video, they are certainly not the type to start smooching on camera or do other pda. To me this is as good as it gets, boncas for me was the turning point in how they portray their real relationship to us. They are not that good actors and they are both awful at lying.

I agree, they will never do a "proper" coming out video because hey, it's been done and Deps like to think outside the box and not be like every other YTer out there. Boncas was the turning of the page for me as well, and for some folks in the audience who all inhaled at the same time wondering what.the.hell. are they planning.

Their lying skills need serious, serious work.

Let's be honest...they probably ARE out, but they WAY they are out isn't going to satisfy everyone. There are some who still want/need the public declaration, and by saying they are straight until they publically say so is, in my mind, rather insulting.

Omg, I was discussing all of this with a friend a little bit ago! We were calling it a "subliminal coming out" (yes, we're quite ridiculous ) Like it happened, yet people still don't really know it, and that 'different feeling' everyone is talking about is just the aftermath. this is irrelevant, im sorry i have nothing to offer to the discussion. carry on

Let me start out by saying that not only do I think there's a good chance they're together, I'm also 100% on team "they won't ever do a proper coming out but if they want to come out they will make it obvious they're together in a subtle way". However, I really don't agree with this, especially the part in bold. Don't get me wrong, I think that the whole "straight until proven otherwise" attitude is super disrespectful. But I don't think this is a case of that. Yes, D&P have been acting differently. They've been acting much more comfortable and natural, especially around each other. But, nothing about it has proved they're dating. A "subliminal" coming out would be Dan saying that Phil is "the worst boyfriend in the world". It would be "our bedroom". It would be Phil kissing Dan on the cheek and not editing it out. It would be them adopting a dog together (because, let's be real, what 100% platonic pair of friends would do that?). I just don't see how you can call their new behavior "coming out", because none of it is strictly romantic. Besides that, Dan and Phil are Mr. and Mr. "we don't talk about our personal private lives because it's personal and private." I don't see them coming out (subliminally or otherwise) until they have to (have to = getting a dog, child, etc. together).

On another note: I'm super glad they finished undertale, I really liked the episode. I loved festive Dil and I ESPECIALLY loved the pinof bloopers

On the topic of them coming out, I honestly think, if at any time, they'd do it in a serious video at the tail end of their career. Idk but the idea of a "subliminal coming out" doesn't really sit well with me - EVEN THOUGH i'd LOVE LOVE LOVE it if they'd casually like, adopt a dog, or just mention being boyfriends without it being a huge deal . But I've always thought that after their careers had run their course, they'd sit down and make a video finally explaining what the hell their ambiguous relationship is/was. Maybe it's just me really wanting a straight (or not wAhEy) explanation of phan or me just having a penchant for the bittersweet/dramatic, but like if they ever did come out I think that's how it'd be.

I'm kinda torn between them not wanting phan to be a part of their career and them actually adopting it as their branding (post baking universe anyone). Let's just see what the future holds in 2017

[gnostic]

I 100% agree here, because lets be real they will never do a proper coming out video, they are certainly not the type to start smooching on camera or do other pda. To me this is as good as it gets, boncas for me was the turning point in how they portray their real relationship to us. They are not that good actors and they are both awful at lying.

I agree, they will never do a "proper" coming out video because hey, it's been done and Deps like to think outside the box and not be like every other YTer out there. Boncas was the turning of the page for me as well, and for some folks in the audience who all inhaled at the same time wondering what.the.hell. are they planning.

Their lying skills need serious, serious work.

Let's be honest...they probably ARE out, but they WAY they are out isn't going to satisfy everyone. There are some who still want/need the public declaration, and by saying they are straight until they publically say so is, in my mind, rather insulting.

Omg, I was discussing all of this with a friend a little bit ago! We were calling it a "subliminal coming out" (yes, we're quite ridiculous ) Like it happened, yet people still don't really know it, and that 'different feeling' everyone is talking about is just the aftermath. this is irrelevant, im sorry i have nothing to offer to the discussion. carry on

Let me start out by saying that not only do I think there's a good chance they're together, I'm also 100% on team "they won't ever do a proper coming out but if they want to come out they will make it obvious they're together in a subtle way". However, I really don't agree with this, especially the part in bold. Don't get me wrong, I think that the whole "straight until proven otherwise" attitude is super disrespectful. But I don't think this is a case of that. Yes, D&P have been acting differently. They've been acting much more comfortable and natural, especially around each other. But, nothing about it has proved they're dating. A "subliminal" coming out would be Dan saying that Phil is "the worst boyfriend in the world". It would be "our bedroom". It would be Phil kissing Dan on the cheek and not editing it out. It would be them adopting a dog together (because, let's be real, what 100% platonic pair of friends would do that?). I just don't see how you can call their new behavior "coming out", because none of it is strictly romantic. Besides that, Dan and Phil are Mr. and Mr. "we don't talk about our personal private lives because it's personal and private." I don't see them coming out (subliminally or otherwise) until they have to (have to = getting a dog, child, etc. together).

On another note: I'm super glad they finished undertale, I really liked the episode. I loved festive Dil and I ESPECIALLY loved the pinof bloopers

I don't think some of these are subliminal though? Like, calling each other boyfriends it straight up coming out (unless it worded intentionally vaguely to imply Dan was referring to someone else suffering the future horror of dating Phil). If Dan did say boyfriend instead of blerson in that famous liveshow ( still over that drama), few people would've needed the cuteness of gamingmas to trust and believe in phan.

[sentinel]

I am sorry, but is dangerously selfish comment. The do not owe you or us to be anyone's representation and this is in no way connected to their actual relationship. More so, their personas have never been about their sexualities so even if it turned out that they were together they wouldn't suddenly turn into the new Laci Greens.

umm... what? my comment had nothing to do with what you're talking about. by saying "i want to see..." i didn't mean "i want them to come out and represent". i mean it as the opposite of "i don't think they're a couple because i'm a dangirl/want to fuck them/want them to be straight for my sake". as in, an argument that's sometimes brought up on why people don't think they're together ("they think they're straight because they want them to be straight and marry them"). i'm saying that i want to see what everyone sees, those signals that they're together, the "heart eyes", because i'd very much like for them to be a couple, but i still unfortunately don't see it except for those moments when i'm in a phan goggles mode.

I guess I misunderstood you, to me it seemed from the way you worded it that you wanted them to come out not because they want to, but just to be the bi/pan representation in the yt community.

[papierklemmen]

I am sorry, but is dangerously selfish comment. The do not owe you or us to be anyone's representation and this is in no way connected to their actual relationship. More so, their personas have never been about their sexualities so even if it turned out that they were together they wouldn't suddenly turn into the new Laci Greens.

umm... what? my comment had nothing to do with what you're talking about. by saying "i want to see..." i didn't mean "i want them to come out and represent". i mean it as the opposite of "i don't think they're a couple because i'm a dangirl/want to fuck them/want them to be straight for my sake". as in, an argument that's sometimes brought up on why people don't think they're together ("they think they're straight because they want them to be straight and marry them"). i'm saying that i want to see what everyone sees, those signals that they're together, the "heart eyes", because i'd very much like for them to be a couple, but i still unfortunately don't see it except for those moments when i'm in a phan goggles mode.

I guess I misunderstood you, to me it seemed from the way you worded it that you wanted them to come out not because they want to, but just to be the bi/pan representation in the yt community.

yep, completely misunderstood. i didn't even talk about coming out and considering most of the time i don't believe they're together, i don't expect them to come out as anything

by the way, sadly, youtubers who center their content around dating life/sexuality are not my cup of tea, so if they suddenly turned into laci greens (hew?) i'd probably watch them for a while out of sheer shock and curiosity and then peace out. nothing wrong with that kind of content, i'm just not its target audience.

[MoonPride]

To me it always looks like Dan is hopelessly in love with Phil, not the other way around. Phil doesn't give anything away in that sense.

[swofro]

Hello there!

I just wanted to say that Christmas has been a very bad time for me, and Deppy have helped me to (emotionally) survive during this month. That's is what has been decisive for me to join the forum, because honestly, I don't know what I would have done without a daily moment of peace. I think Dan was right, these holidays a rough for many people, and their effort to upload every day made me a little bit less sad. Besides, I always enjoy analysing their videos in depth , and it's great to have a place to do it with nice and polite people.

And, btw, I'm so so sorry, English is not my mother tongue, please correct me if I misspell something in a horrible way. I hope you enjoy the rest of the holidays!

Hello and welcome! Please don't feel bad for your English, there are a lot of non natives here. Join in the bants if you want to

Okay guys:
1. Flirty af in 2009 ('I want to be there so you don't have to be brave' and other famous quotes, but lots and lots of ordinary 'I miss you's and 'I can't wait for the weekend's. Also #distancesucks).
2. Dan goes to Manchester University, spends a lot of time at Phil's 1 bedroom apartment, finally moves in with him. They take a holiday to Portugal just because they want to.
4. They move to London together, socialise and act as a unit, even when Dan is all like 'Phil is doing Phil things in his Phil life' and Phil is like 'I wonder who my future wife is'. They continue to socialise and act as a unit four years in.
5. Japhan, their dream trip, with their fancy suite that looks designed for newlyweds.
6. Single since 2009 and nothing indicates they want their current situation to change.
Bonus: voldy

People talk about heart eyes and flirting, but I can tell you that's not what seals the deal for the majority of us phannies. (I know, it could all be a coincidence or they could have been tricking the fans for 7 years, but still, it's quite a lot to explain).

Happy holidays!

This. No 1 and 6 seals the deal to me. If I never found 2009, I will never be a phan believer.


A bit too late to comment about the entire gamingmas but I want to applaud those two guys, the biggest procrastinator we ever know, managed to upload 24(+1) daily gaming video consecutively. At halfway point, I confess I was feeling worried for them, afraid that the burden of daily videos finally catching up with them and makes gamingmas something they no longer enjoy but despised. But they managed to pass through the hurdle and complete their quest successfully and I am so proud of

My top 5 gamingmas video are
-The True Pacifist Ending Undertale
-Google Feud
-Katamari
-Bubble Bobble
-Dil has a Baby

I also love Asgore Attacks (but I don't feel it's fair to put two undertale in mt top 5 lol) and Sports Kinect (but Phil didn't win )


I want to take this opportunity to say that joining idb, being a dedicated fan and making friends here had been the highlight of my year. I appreciate you all a lot and I hope 2017 will be a good year to all of us.

[zvezdochka]

Aah, have I missed reading you, guys

Very-long-time lurker, not-so-frequent poster, I stopped following D&P about a year ago because of how insufferably slow their pace was. You can imagine my surprise discovering Gamingmas 2016!

• ~They are so much more non-verbal. Pinches, punches, nudges and laughs now make a cut. I wonder, if performing on stage has anything to do with it, i.e. they familiarized themselves with being physical in front of an audience and now don't go overboard with controlling every movement.
  ~Their dynamics changed. To me, now Phil is the funny one. Bye-bye, my dream of Dan doing anything close to a stand-up routine. Hello, Phil my stocking.

Again, this is not an in-depth analysis of their career throughout 2016, but rather a comparison of December 2016 to December 2015. I have little to no idea what happened in-between (tour, Boncas, liveshows), but they both just seem happier. Definitely will mark my calendar to check on them sometime next year. I think, April

[momoroki]

For what it's worth here's my take and thoughts on the nature of D&P's relationship...

I think first you need to rewind the clock to 2009 and establish their mental states and drives at the time. In 2009 Dan was wrapping up with his secondary education, had a small group of friends and girlfriend, but was otherwise still pining for someone or something he could really connect with—you get the sense that he kept to himself a lot and was going through that age of "ugh, nobody gets me" and was particularly indifferent towards his family. With his theatre experiences behind him now, his primary escapism outlet was YouTube—he references in TABINOF that at one point he had viewed nearly 40k videos, YouTube wasn't just his idle entertainment, it was his obsession. Dan idolized youtubers, and given how relatively small the platform was at the time, he started developing connections with these creators and would message and leave comments like any other fanboy, and some of them even responded back. Enter Phil.

Phil was wrapping up his university studies and had been making videos for a few years already by 2009, while not huge, he had a steadily growing audience, which included Dan. Phil was still presumably still in an emotionally low point after the death of his flat mate of 3 years and when Dan reached out to Phil and expressed their common interests, they started to naturally click. Phil had already started to explore his bisexuality by this point, and here was this cute younger guy showing interest in all the same things who was clearly looking to connect with someone on more than just a surface level, and so the flirtations began.

In the beginning I think there were clear romantic overtones to their relationship, which included intimacy and sex. At the core Dan was enamored with Phil (maybe even in a slightly opportunistic sense) and after they finally meet, distance was hardly a limiting factor and it served as a nice escape from Dan's home life which he longed to get far away from. Dan of course eventually moved to Manchester to attend university and after a year moved in with Phil (though they practically spent most of their time together anyway).

Here's where conjecture begins... At some point during this time, maybe even as a condition of moving in together, I think they decided, likely at Dan's insistence, that they put their romantic relationship aside in order for living together and working together to truly work. I think Dan was having trouble understanding his sexuality and chalked up their earlier romantic engagement to experimentation and that they'd be better off as just friends, hence the anti-gay, anti-phan overtones of 2012 and after. I suspect too that part of the heavy denials were aimed towards his family, and while Dan's parents aren't too computer savvy, Dan's brother would have found evidence of shipping and rumors (and maybe even voldy) all too easily—even if Dan was accepting of his sexuality, he certainly wasn't ready to make it known to his growing audience (and family), and with shipping coming to a feverish pitch around this time, he probably felt cornered and lashed out.

Here is what I think is fundamentally at the core of their relationship: Dan is loyal and co-dependent and Phil has a deep (and potentially unrequited) romantic love for him. Dan owes Phil everything for taking an interest in him and giving him the motivation and encouragement to start making videos, so he has this deep unbreakable sense of appreciation and loyalty for Phil. Meanwhile Phil is hopelessly and romantically in love with Dan, and has sacrificed his own feelings when/if Dan put limits on the terms of their relationship.

What's clear is that they are inseparable. I think they have eased into a mutually beneficial status where they both get the fulfillment and support they need from each other—certainly there is a level of intimacy there, but whether it has returned to anything of a sexual nature is impossible to tell.

I think 2017 will be revealing in many different ways. I think this past year was their way of validating their existence in a purely creative sense without the "gimmick" of labels—you get the impression from Dan especially that he doesn't want to be known as the bi/gay youtuber, or as a YouTube couple, he wants to stand purely on the creativity. I think they've proved everything they've needed to prove and now 2017 will have a glass closet type of transparency. No more denials or affirmations, just living their lives and people can interprets it any way they wish. Phil is turning 30, they've made a ludicrous amount of money in 2016, and I'm sure they'll move, likely to Brighton to be closer with their friends and have more space while they transition to the next phase of their lives, which will of course include a corgi (fight me team shib). I wouldn't be surprised too if they started setting up more non-dan/phil branded types of ventures to set up income streams for the future. By all accounts 2017 should be a quieter year, but may in fact prove more revealing than any other.

What a great analysis! I agree with almost everything in this post - very well put, and it seems like a realistic conclusion to come to concerning their relationship.

However! There are two things which I disagree with (or would like clarification on)
1. What made you come to the conclusion that Phil is hopelessly in love with Dan? Honestly, his emotions are completely unreadable to me and I'd love to see your reasoning behind this.
2. #teamshibe all the way m8. I'll fite u

[SquishPhan]

Yeah the theory that they were together in 2009, but broke up sometime along the way, yet remained so close just doesn't make any sense to me.

[annetamiau]

For what it's worth here's my take and thoughts on the nature of D&P's relationship...

I think first you need to rewind the clock to 2009 and establish their mental states and drives at the time. In 2009 Dan was wrapping up with his secondary education, had a small group of friends and girlfriend, but was otherwise still pining for someone or something he could really connect with—you get the sense that he kept to himself a lot and was going through that age of "ugh, nobody gets me" and was particularly indifferent towards his family. With his theatre experiences behind him now, his primary escapism outlet was YouTube—he references in TABINOF that at one point he had viewed nearly 40k videos, YouTube wasn't just his idle entertainment, it was his obsession. Dan idolized youtubers, and given how relatively small the platform was at the time, he started developing connections with these creators and would message and leave comments like any other fanboy, and some of them even responded back. Enter Phil.

Phil was wrapping up his university studies and had been making videos for a few years already by 2009, while not huge, he had a steadily growing audience, which included Dan. Phil was still presumably still in an emotionally low point after the death of his flat mate of 3 years and when Dan reached out to Phil and expressed their common interests, they started to naturally click. Phil had already started to explore his bisexuality by this point, and here was this cute younger guy showing interest in all the same things who was clearly looking to connect with someone on more than just a surface level, and so the flirtations began.

In the beginning I think there were clear romantic overtones to their relationship, which included intimacy and sex. At the core Dan was enamored with Phil (maybe even in a slightly opportunistic sense) and after they finally meet, distance was hardly a limiting factor and it served as a nice escape from Dan's home life which he longed to get far away from. Dan of course eventually moved to Manchester to attend university and after a year moved in with Phil (though they practically spent most of their time together anyway).

Here's where conjecture begins... At some point during this time, maybe even as a condition of moving in together, I think they decided, likely at Dan's insistence, that they put their romantic relationship aside in order for living together and working together to truly work. I think Dan was having trouble understanding his sexuality and chalked up their earlier romantic engagement to experimentation and that they'd be better off as just friends, hence the anti-gay, anti-phan overtones of 2012 and after. I suspect too that part of the heavy denials were aimed towards his family, and while Dan's parents aren't too computer savvy, Dan's brother would have found evidence of shipping and rumors (and maybe even voldy) all too easily—even if Dan was accepting of his sexuality, he certainly wasn't ready to make it known to his growing audience (and family), and with shipping coming to a feverish pitch around this time, he probably felt cornered and lashed out.

Here is what I think is fundamentally at the core of their relationship: Dan is loyal and co-dependent and Phil has a deep (and potentially unrequited) romantic love for him. Dan owes Phil everything for taking an interest in him and giving him the motivation and encouragement to start making videos, so he has this deep unbreakable sense of appreciation and loyalty for Phil. Meanwhile Phil is hopelessly and romantically in love with Dan, and has sacrificed his own feelings when/if Dan put limits on the terms of their relationship.

What's clear is that they are inseparable. I think they have eased into a mutually beneficial status where they both get the fulfillment and support they need from each other—certainly there is a level of intimacy there, but whether it has returned to anything of a sexual nature is impossible to tell.

I think 2017 will be revealing in many different ways. I think this past year was their way of validating their existence in a purely creative sense without the "gimmick" of labels—you get the impression from Dan especially that he doesn't want to be known as the bi/gay youtuber, or as a YouTube couple, he wants to stand purely on the creativity. I think they've proved everything they've needed to prove and now 2017 will have a glass closet type of transparency. No more denials or affirmations, just living their lives and people can interprets it any way they wish. Phil is turning 30, they've made a ludicrous amount of money in 2016, and I'm sure they'll move, likely to Brighton to be closer with their friends and have more space while they transition to the next phase of their lives, which will of course include a corgi (fight me team shib). I wouldn't be surprised too if they started setting up more non-dan/phil branded types of ventures to set up income streams for the future. By all accounts 2017 should be a quieter year, but may in fact prove more revealing than any other.

Thanks for your post!

As for them breaking up in 2012, I think living (I say living, not being friends, or best friends even) with your ex for so long without the friendship ending up in disaster is highly unlikely, so I'd say they have either always been platonic (nearly impossible imo) or they have always been in a relationship (I mean, they could have broken up for like 2 weeks, but I don't think they would be as close as they appear to be were they open to a relationship with a third party, not to mention the possibility of hook ups/jealousy issues).

And I would definitely not say Phil is madly in love with Dan while Dan is only 'loyal' to their friendship. As for 2012, Dan was the vocal one, the one with long tumblr rants and the one that talked as if being in a relationship with Phil was the most ridiculous, laughable thing ever, but Phil kept on saying how he was single and looking for a girlfriend ('my future wife' mentions anyone?) and how he had no luck with girls and so on. He did the same thing Dan did, but in a more subtle way (if only he hadn't talked about women like a 14 year old boy, he would have been pretty convincing, but that's a completely different story).

[DryCereal]

Hello there!

I just wanted to say that Christmas has been a very bad time for me, and Deppy have helped me to (emotionally) survive during this month. That's is what has been decisive for me to join the forum, because honestly, I don't know what I would have done without a daily moment of peace. I think Dan was right, these holidays a rough for many people, and their effort to upload every day made me a little bit less sad. Besides, I always enjoy analysing their videos in depth , and it's great to have a place to do it with nice and polite people.

And, btw, I'm so so sorry, English is not my mother tongue, please correct me if I misspell something in a horrible way. I hope you enjoy the rest of the holidays!

Firstly: Glad you found us - have a spot on the trash heap! - Plenty of non-native english speakers here, and then there's those of us who are native speakers and still mangle it on a daily basis, so don't worry!

Glad you decided to register and post, and that you're a fellow person who finds obsessing over there two nerds to get through the rough times! (check out the "how was your day post" - it's our own version of ISG, just with less alcohol with less sarcasm.