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Since absolutely nothing is going on right now, I'm going to quote my own posts from the last page of the previous thread and this time, make the intended points of the posts a bit more...overt. I'm bored, okay? And I like a bit of controversy.

oqua wrote:As I am bored as heck, I was perusing Dan's old tweets from 2013 (as one does), and I found this conversation:


(Here's a link to the tweet; I didn't embed it because it made the conversation a bit hard to follow.)

His response made me realize that it's very rare to see Dan (or Phil) acknowledge those who are "less fortunate" than them (for lack of a better term). It was weird to see Dan do it, albeit ironically!!1

Dan seems arguably pretty socially-conscious about some things, like LGBT+ issues, gender, maybe mental health. But then other social issues, he basically doesn’t even acknowledge. And as for Phil....

Translation: Dan and Phil are rich and white and rarely if ever acknowledge their privilege or talk about issues that don't directly affect them.

oqua wrote:I’ve also been examining Dan and Phil’s mentions of their family on Twitter.

I went through both of their accounts and counted up how many times each of them uses the words “family,” “parents,” “mum/mother,” and “dad/father.” I counted manually to make sure that I only included references to their OWN family/parents, not any uses of the terms to talk about other people’s families or families in general.

Here are the final tallies. Draw your own conclusions I guess.

Phil
family: 35
parents: 85
mum: 86
dad: 25
mother: 2
father: 1
TOTAL: 234

Dan
family: 11
parents: 4
mum: 13
dad: 10
mother: 1
father: 2
TOTAL: 41

Also, check out the difference between these two tweets, both from December 2015:

The contrast is just so hilarious and also sad but anyway...

Dan:
Phil:

Dan: "my family's house"
Phil: "home"

Translation: Dan lowkey hates his family. Please discuss.

Dan spending ~12hrs of his birthday weekend on the bus when they could be celebrating by losing vlog footage in Vegas?

Hahahahahahahahaha NO.

I think just because Dan isn't super close to his family doesn't mean he necessarily ''lowkey hates them.'' I have a similar relationship with my family, so I can relate. You can love your family but they can still be very different from you and not understand you, y'know? Phil is very lucky to have such a warm and close connection with his parents and I'm honestly a bit jealous.

bedhead91 wrote:I think just because Dan isn't super close to his family doesn't mean he necessarily ''lowkey hates them.'' I have a similar relationship with my family, so I can relate. You can love your family but they can still be very different from you and not understand you, y'know? Phil is very lucky to have such a warm and close connection with his parents and I'm honestly a bit jealous.

That and the fact he's gone to great lengths in the past to try and afford his family some privacy.

re: family i think there's a difference between 'trying to give his family privacy' and 'almost not mentioning them at all except if it's in a negative way'

i don't think he hates them tho, i think they are simply not close and 'privacy' is a good excuse (although half true, and dan likes his half truths - see: "editing tips") to avoid awkward conversations he doesn't want to have with his audience (although dan being dan he seems to not be able to help himself sometimes and thus we have our collection of lowkey bitter liveshow mentions)

i mean, i don't think the lesters have lost that much privacy and phil talks about them plenty, maybe martyn and cornelia did, but they are helping deppy run a business and touring with them, no one is saying dan's little bro should join the family business next or anything like that

tl,dr: i bet they don't hate each other but have a sort of 'we're related so we have to see/call each other from time to time and i hope your life is going okay' and that is not a weird relationship to have with your family (i think) it's just that it stands out when compared to the disney movie family that is the lesters

re: privilege yep that's something that i've thought about before and it rubs me the wrong way, (simply because i like the people i stan to give a fuck about the things i give a fuck about y'know) but then again they are very against opinions on any topic ever so it doesn't surprise me and i don't think it means they don't care. i wish they would support more charities or at least talk about social/political issues more. i hope that at some point they will get over their 'no opinions' phase and start being more open about their thoughts on stuff like that.

The tumblr phandom knows how to entertain themselves
A++

Phil has led a bit of a charmed life, hasn't he. (Except for, of course, his friend passing away. ) He had a peaceful home life growing up and a great, supporting family, and now he has a close best friend/platonic life partner/husband/whatever the hell Dan is to him, a career that he actually loves doing that makes a lot of money to boot. I'd probably have more of a sunshiney disposition if I was him too (as opposed to being the salty bitter jar of Marmite I am now. )

About the social issues thing....both of them seemed to have had a middle-class, sheltered, suburban upbringing so they probably wouldn't think about or would want to speak about certain issues that they have never experienced first-hand.

bedhead91 wrote:I think just because Dan isn't super close to his family doesn't mean he necessarily ''lowkey hates them.'' I have a similar relationship with my family, so I can relate. You can love your family but they can still be very different from you and not understand you, y'know?

I never entertain the discussions about Dan and his family because it's a subject that makes me feel uncomfortable but I just wanted to your post. If I had an opinion on it, it would be exactly the same as yours.

Also, Oqua, love your picture for the thread! It's so cool.

& from the last thread, karma_yeah, your post was extremely sweet

Oqua, that picture is amazing

About their families: I agree with you bedhead91, but at the same time I don't think that Phil's upbringing has been 100% sunshine-lollipops-rainbows. We briefly discussed it a couple of threads ago, but some of the comments Phil has made rub me in the wrong way regarding the "masculinity" issue: who the fudge gets a harmless drill for his birthday? His mother finds remarkable that he tried on girly hats? suspiciously waiting for a free house to invite Dan? These are only some examples that come up to my mind right now, but I bet we all can think of more.

On the other hand, there seems to be this widespread belief of Dan's parents being homophobic, and I really don't get why? OK, his grandmother is catholic and he doesn't talk a lot about the rest of his family, but I believe it's due to a mixture between what bedhead91 said (not being a tight-knot family, essentially), the really nice experiences his brother has had with the phandom and well, the contrast itself with the relationship of Phil and the Lesters. I recall something about watching the Lord of the Rings with his parents and Dan being embarrassed because his father wanted some male characters to kiss?

About the social issues thing....both of them seemed to have had a middle-class, sheltered, suburban upbringing so they probably wouldn't think about or would want to speak about certain issues that they have never experienced first-hand.

About the road trip to Las Vegas: wasting half of his birthday in a bus vs a relatively short, comfortable flight.

majitzu wrote:The tumblr phandom knows how to entertain themselves

http://phanielhowell.tumblr.com/ wrote:

A++

Amazing.

Whoever is running these accounts is brilliant!

oqua wrote:]Translation: Dan and Phil are rich and white and rarely if ever acknowledge their privilege or talk about issues that don't directly affect them.

I think this fits with the 'trend' as far as social issues go: LGBT and mental health issues are far more widely talked about on the internet than poverty/class issues (I've seen tumblr criticised for this), and considering the internet is both a source of education and a means of expression for D&P, that's what'll feel more significant to them. Maybe as rich white men they'd feel uncomfortable talking about other issues too. It's difficult to strike a balance between supporting others and letting the oppressed have a voice/not coming across as condescending, particularly when they have such a visible platform.

oqua wrote:Translation: Dan lowkey hates his family. Please discuss.

Maybe the difference is affected by the fact that Dan effectively moved out for good when he was 19 and so still might have more of a child's relationship with his parents, while Phil lived with his when he was 22/23 and had the chance to form a more mature relationship with them.
But I suspect they're both exaggerating things to fit with DINOF and AP.

majitzu wrote:The tumblr phandom knows how to entertain themselves

http://phanielhowell.tumblr.com/ wrote:

A++

New headcanon: Drake is Dan's parole officer.

I agree, family discussion is a tricky territory. I feel like Dan also plays a bit into relatability to stereotypical teens here. As in many other instances, I wouldn’t take half of his somewhat "negative" family mentions seriously. The boy may be an open book sometimes, but I think not in this case.

edit: From what Phil says about his family one can conclude that good food is the major factor why he loves going home lol.

IckleMissMayhem wrote:

majitzu wrote:The tumblr phandom knows how to entertain themselves

http://phanielhowell.tumblr.com/ wrote:

A++

New headcanon: Drake is Dan's parole officer.

That would make sense.

Ticia wrote:Oqua, that picture is amazing

About their families: I agree with you bedhead91, but at the same time I don't think that Phil's upbringing has been 100% sunshine-lollipops-rainbows. We briefly discussed it a couple of threads ago, but some of the comments Phil has made rub me in the wrong way regarding the "masculinity" issue: who the fudge gets a harmless drill for his birthday? His mother finds remarkable that he tried on girly hats? suspiciously waiting for a free house to invite Dan? These are only some examples that come up to my mind right now, but I bet we all can think of more.

To me it sounds like Phil was brought up with the same heteronormative set of values that most people on the planet are brought up with, no better or worse. Still sounds like he had a drama-free childhood. You would have to have grown up in a really liberal household in the 90's if you were a boy and your parents said to you, ''Awww, look at our son trying on girl's clothing, we don't care about gender rolls!'' I remember my mom giving my brother the same shtick about ''how to act like a man'' and laughing when he did anything ''girly'' and she isn't that conservative.

bedhead91 wrote:Phil has led a bit of a charmed life, hasn't he. (Except for, of course, his friend passing away. ) He had a peaceful home life growing up and a great, supporting family, and now he has a close best friend/platonic life partner/husband/whatever the hell Dan is to him, a career that he actually loves doing that makes a lot of money to boot. I'd probably have more of a sunshiney disposition if I was him too (as opposed to being the salty bitter jar of Marmite I am now. )

I relate to this way too much ahah.

going back to my lurking state

Ok now we call Drake the PO and no longer bodyguard?

I thought getting practical gifts from your parents is pretty normal when you're a grown up? At least that's how it works in my family and my environment. For me the fact that he gets also more personalized things is more unusual (and kinda great). And I'd say everybody needs a drill in their household (though yeah maybe not so often when you're renting) and it's as masculine as a blender is feminine. Though I obviously don't know what was Phil's dad intention.

I'm not comfortable with discussing their families either, just wanted to drop that two cents.

And everything that bedhead91 said

bedhead91 wrote: To me it sounds like Phil was brought up with the same heteronormative set of values that most people on the planet are brought up with, no better or worse. Still sounds like he had a drama-free childhood. You would have to have grown up in a really liberal household in the 90's if you were a boy and your parents said to you, ''Awww, look at our son trying on girl's clothing, we don't care about gender rolls!"

absolutey agree
the world has changed a lot in it's view towards these sorts of issues, but most of us, presumably including phil, grew up with this conservative influence.
comparing the two tweets about family homes, what struck me is how nice it is that dan obviously considers the deppy pad "home". it's not everyday that a person moves out at nineteen, moves in with their bff/lover/hubby and finds a new home unit that they're happy and comfortable with

Look, if I've told you once, I've told you multiple times... Nothing improves strained familial relationships like having them all move 12,000 miles away.

Really thought I'd have woken up to a new video today. Tonight maybe? Am I being too hopeful at this point? They're just trolling us right now, aren't they?

Having a lovely, if slightly surreal conversation with @AFuturePhil this morning though. He's drunk on brownie batter, clearly.

ironic wrote:I thought getting practical gifts from your parents is pretty normal when you're a grown up? At least that's how it works in my family and my environment. For me the fact that he gets also more personalized things is more unusual (and kinda great). And I'd say everybody needs a drill in their household (though yeah maybe not so often when you're renting) and it's as masculine as a blender is feminine. Though I obviously don't know what was Phil's dad intention.

I agree. As a female, my dad got me a "basics" toolkit as a HS graduation present since I'd be leaving to college in the fall because "it will definitely come in handy". (And it did, I had people from other halls coming over to borrow stuff)

It wasn't a masculine/feminine thing, it was just a practical, grown-up thing...I feel like most adult-adult presents among family tend to be either novelty or practical...

i always thought dan's general background was more common tbh, in that he doesn't seem to have much in common and with wanted something a bit different from his family, but that things are okay, he can actually visit, they're in contact. every family's different, and i don't find it that unusual. you make the most of your situation, and for some people that means removing a lot of contact.

re: privilege and stuff, yeah. both grew up in nice (i don't care if they say they were boring or twenty minutes from a city that was a bit dirty) areas, went to schools that aren't exactly the average, diverse local school, they could move away from home to go to uni (with phil having a brief job and barely anything coming off of youtube to support himself), both went on expensive holidays, owned pretty big homes etc. basically, from an objective outsider standpoint, they were lucky bastards in regards to their positions from the start. it's really noticeable when you see the way they play or react to a 'chav' character or person, basically being 'someone from a lower class background who has had less opportunities and encouragement and is systemically unlikely to succeed to the same level as me'. they're kind of detached.
and afaik phil voted for the conservatives in the 2010 election = lower taxes for better off people etc but my info for that is someone who knew him talking about 'phil' idk if it's 100% him

for not discussing it, there's a chance it feels more personal then other discussions. stuff like racism and homophobia isn't usually in the news for negative reasons in the uk, so if they talk about those issues its either a bad thing that's far away or a good thing. less discomfort. talking about reforms that mean they need to pay less tax on their many companies... they're just less likely to say that's a bad thing when now they're actually involved AND the people who benefit.

jaej wrote:and afaik phil voted for the conservatives in the 2010 election = lower taxes for better off people etc but my info for that is someone who knew him talking about 'phil' idk if it's 100% him

Chances of Phil telling anyone who he voted for... mmmmmmmm, doubt it very much. "Not the done thing" in the UK, is it? (And bloody rude to ask/tell others, too...)