IDB

So, AprilEff, just posted this (tw:Sexual assault, rape, emotional abuse, drugs, non consensual drugging, abortion, slurs, and if I've missed anything, tell me in the replies) on tumblr.

Basically, it says that he raped her, emotionally abused her, and drugged her. Clare Lourdes, who I think dated Toby, too, came out in support of her

and, so did Amelia Talon, who shared her own story.


There are so many disgusting comments under Amelia's video.

Okay, I can't wrap my head around this.

People are calling Amelia things... What does it give to you?
What does it give to you to protect Toby?

Some bigger Youtubers have also commented on this and I know somewhere there is a "bros before hoes" comment.

What are people getting out of protecting Toby? I don't get this.
And yes going to the police is very often difficult.
And one shouldn't dismiss the comments made by others just because they are women...

There is just so much I can say without raging/swearing.

On [the site that shall not be named], there are quite a few interesting rumors spanning all the way back to late 2012 about Toby Turner and his relationships, 'womanizing', etc. I'd recommend the reading, particularly these posts, and the first; I'm not sure how aware his defenders are of this history, but it's vile.

Trigger Warning :

Everything jhamba said and general douchebaggery.

^ Can you screencap and credit? I still can't use the site because my account is still deactivated.

Anonymousse For you and all the banned IPs out there:
(All before April's tumblr post.)

Jaclynglenn's video is a bit weird. The impression I got was that she blamed April for not being able to say no loud enough? Not sure I like her opinion on all of this but she did date Toby for a while also so I guess it's relevant. I truly hope she is not intending to victim blame here though and that my impression is wrong.

human wrote:Jaclynglenn's video is a bit weird. The impression I got was that she blamed April for not being able to say no loud enough? Not sure I like her opinion on all of this but she did date Toby for a while also so I guess it's relevant. I truly hope she is not intending to victim blame here though and that my impression is wrong.

It was strange, wasn't it? I definitely got the same impression, unfortunately, and though I don't think that was her intention the suggestion that this wouldn't have happened if the others had just said no (in the 'right way', presumably, as April said that she did), removing the responsibility from Toby, was damaging. She also seemed quite hung up on allegations of rape specifically, and questioning details, despite saying that for their accounts 'you could switch my name out for theirs and a lot of it would be true'. I think she was aware of the possibility of facilitating victim blaming and spreading doubt and tried to counter it by repeating that she didn't doubt most of April's story, but it didn't really work and just seemed kind of contradictory, especially when she started questioning April's motives. The video was clearly a really big thing for her, I can't imagine how tough her situation is. Personally whether consent was more coerced than directly violated, and what precisely April's motives might be, I frankly don't care - his general behaviour is abusive from all of their descriptions, and that's enough.

I actually really appreciate Jaclynglenn's video. People asked her to comment on the situation and she gave her opinion and experiences. I feel that conflicting accounts are really important in any news story, since black and white accounts are very rarely true or believable. For that reason, I thinks her video is important, because it adds evidence to his behaviours that don't seem potentially vindictive. I also don't think she's victim blaming, but simply stating that her experiences while coinciding with what others have said, don't specifically coincide with some points that April has said. It's something to think about in context of her situation. Drug use can definitely change people's reactions to things, so how he behaved with her may not be how he behaved with others.

In light of other high profile sexual assault cases that have gotten this black and white reaction from people, I'd like to say that coming forth about these issues whether you think anything will come from it or not is important because it establishes the history of the person. I'm not of the mind of convicting anyone for criminal acts when their isn't probable evidence, but establishing a public longstanding reputation goes a long way socially and with future cases the person might experience. Sure people like Jian Ghomeshi may not have been convicted, but because rumours have circulated about him for awhile (as they did with Tobuscus), you can be sure that very few people will want to work with him in the same capacity and thus much of his power is striped, even though he is "technically" not guilty.

I made a mistake and read the comments under Amelia Talon's video These people are truly awful

Like I said on the Other YouTubers thread I used to watch Toby in 2011/12 and really liked him (not gonna lie, it was mostly because he was nice to look at, I never found him particularly funny though he was a mildly talented actor) but I really stopped watching the year after that. Back then, he already had reputation as a player who goes through women like I go through tissues during a cold. It was mostly a joke though, like 'haha Toby you ladies man' and that was that. I stopped watching him because he seemed to become increasingly more strange to me? Not in an endearing way, it was like he always had this mask on while under that there was a completely different person. Never thought he would be that messed up though wtf. His reputation sure as hell doesn;t help his case in this that's for sure.

Heh. A really weird thing occurred to me just now... You know who else had a reputation as a womanizer which was treated like a joke by his peers? Alex Day. What a strange uh- coincidence?

human wrote:Jaclynglenn's video is a bit weird. The impression I got was that she blamed April for not being able to say no loud enough? Not sure I like her opinion on all of this but she did date Toby for a while also so I guess it's relevant. I truly hope she is not intending to victim blame here though and that my impression is wrong.

For some reason reading her name really disturbed me and I couldn't figure out why because I was pretty sure I had never seen one of her videos before, and then I realized this girl blamed all of Islam (calling the religion 'particularly violent') for the terrorist attacks in Paris last year on Twitter. Very different subject, but you'll excuse me for not being so sure of her good intentions.

Her experiences and feelings on Toby are valid and she has the right to express those, but in her video she is kinda talking around the actual subject and so she kept contradicting herself in really weird ways. Even as a feminist I'm not particularly a fan of the 'Victim Should Always Be Believed' mindset, I'm more for 'Accusations Should Always Be Taken Seriously' because there is a subtle but important difference between the two and I don't think remaining critical of accusations (if you're not being a dick about it obvs) is victim blaming. But the 'you should've been more clear when saying no, women have trouble with that' or whatever she said was straight up victim blaming imo.


Anyway if his more high profile ex gfs like iJustine and Olga Kay have had any similar experiences I hope they speak up too, even though I'm not counting on it.

Catallena wrote: Anyway if his more high profile ex gfs like iJustine and Olga Kay have had any similar experiences I hope they speak up too, even though I'm not counting on it.

I'm also not counting on it, at least when it comes to Olga because as I said in the other thread; she and Toby were hanging out just a few days ago (they were playing with that virtual reality gaming thing on her snapchat), so they've remained friends over the years. She hasn't acknowledged any of the controversy on Twitter or anything yet, and I doubt she will. I just hope she's not in a bad place with him.
edit
Oops I'm wrong, she has commented on it on twitter:

Something was just posted on Tumblr... appearing to be an email comment from Toby's mom.
To me, this doesn't really change anything. The comments on the actual post sum up my thoughts.
"To be fair how do we know 1. She’s his mom and 2. That she’s telling the truth? A lot of parents will lie to protect their child, it has happened before in criminal court cases."
I'm curious as to where this image came from.... and even if it is a legit email comment, I don't know exactly what to take from this. It is interesting, though.

EDIT: Wow I'm an idiot. It's not an email, but a comment. I wonder where the comment is from though.

I saw that comment and it's weird because I'm pretty damn sure that when all of this allegedly took place, Toby did not live with his mom?? Yet the comment says that April lived in 'their' house and that there is no violence in 'her' house.

And if it even is is his mom, of course she's gonna defend him. If people think of April's story as an unreliable source, they should say the same about the comment.

Defranco on the topic

Toby and a very recent ex of his, Melanie Murphy, both made videos.

ad-free link to Toby's video

Melanie's video and comment on the Defranco video below the spoiler:

Anonymousse wrote:Defranco on the topic

I have never watched Toby before, but I watch DeFranco regularly. After he mentioned Toby possibly being on drugs at his wedding at 5:45 I went digging (not hard the video is easy to find, I won't embed it here). I watched his vlog from the DeFranco wedding and I agree with Phil and the comments he definitely seems on something.

The fact that he put AdSense on his video denying the allegations is truly disgusting. I just watched the video and it gave me the creeps...nothing about it comes across as sincere, and I've had dealings with abusive/manipulative types before. I basically agree with everything said in these tweets:

http://beaenkes.tumblr.com/post/142655308263

Katers17

https://www.facebook.com/Katers17/posts ... 1500793627

(I used to be a big fan of her so reading this was probably the most shocking...)

We use Occlam's razor in regards of Dan and Phil but this also seems to be the case with Toby.

Thanks for keeping me updated guys.

Tomska touches very briefly upon the subject in his latest vlog:


18:26

Summary: He doesn't talk about Toby as he doesn't know Toby, but he says can't get it out of his head because it reminds him so much of "this complete sense of unease" in 2014 when all of those British youtubers were being accused left and right and you didn't know who you could trust anymore. Makes it clear he doesn't think mob mentality is a good thing, and it doesn't work - all those British youtubers got away with whatever they did and their lives are fine. He feels sick and sad and uneasy by it all.

Anonymousse wrote:Katers17

https://www.facebook.com/Katers17/posts ... 1500793627

(I used to be a big fan of her so reading this was probably the most shocking...)

We use Occlam's razor in regards of Dan and Phil but this also seems to be the case with Toby.

I was a big fan of Kate too and this struck a chord with me... funnily enough when I first heard about the allegations I immediately thought of Kate because I remembered her hanging out with him back in her old vlogs. and I remember a lot of people questioned why her Dad flew over to look after her for so long (if this was still around the time she vlogged some of that)

guy creeps me out tbh, surprised he ever even had so many girlfriends in the first place

edit: my god, I hadn't read some of the posts on Kate's wall before posting this. already there are people accusing her of lying and 'deserving everything that's coming to you'. are these people serious??? I'm disgusted at humanity rn

sorry to double post but I've just found Seth's post in relation to Kate's and I'm shocked beyond belief: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 9694667480

if anyone followed Kate around the time she shaved her head, this reveals a lot? but he's also sort of accusing Kate of lying about some of her accusations and I'm not even sure what to think

lionheart wrote:sorry to double post but I've just found Seth's post in relation to Kate's and I'm shocked beyond belief: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 9694667480

if anyone followed Kate around the time she shaved her head, this reveals a lot? but he's also sort of accusing Kate of lying about some of her accusations and I'm not even sure what to think

but he arrived after the accident? so i don't think he really knew what actually went down before he arrived there. And why is Kate's account sounds so much like she didn't want to offend anyone, like she's scared. And why does she have to say that she still loves him and doesn't hate him and doesn't wish him anything bad. While Seth's sounds very... i don't what's the word to describe it, but it's more accusing and guilt tripping her, like 'he was there, he helped her, toby was very concerned about her, toby was worried, toby didn't do anything wrong, toby was good, it's all in her head and she should be grateful towards him and toby'. it just, it screams manipulation to me. He repeatedly said 'Toby was concerned' over and over, like i don't know. I feel very uncomfortable.

After all of these, Toby and the gang just creeps me a lot. And sure maybe all of the victims are not perfect human being, but that doesn't mean the abusive nature of Toby can be brushed aside just like that. I find it scary and pretty sick that in order for a rape survivor account to even be considered is they need to not do literally anything wrong in their life. And then, after that, they need to present their 'evidence' to the whole world.

In the end, he just wants to shut her up. And maybe shut another women who feel like they could share their experiences with Toby. Like, 'if you tell your experience, i would, in turn, reveal to the whole world how not only that wasn't true, you also did this and this and that, so shut up.'

I used to sometimes lurk on Katers GG thread when she dated Cory because they were a trainwreck together and apart (though not anymore when this took place). She didn't seem quite mentally stable to me then, and I have no idea how she is now or at the time this happened. In the text messages spread by Seth Hendrix, April talks about Kate having an 'episode' and that she needs professional help and Cory mentions her seeing a therapist. So I definitely think that Kate has a severe mental illness, whatever that might be. The question is, is what happened on this night in Spring 2014 the result of drugs that may or may not have been slipped to her by Toby or the result of her suffering some kind of mental breakdown? April was apparently present when this happened, did she notice Toby giving Kate drugs? Was it 'simply' an episode like she said in that text message? I'd like to hear her take on this night.

It's interesting though how in all of this (April's rape allegation, ex gfs stating that he's a manipulative and cheating bastard, people who worked with him professionally saying that working with him was not a good experience) the issue that always comes back is drug abuse. Going kinda offtopic here, but I don't buy that Toby is the only YouTuber with a substance abuse problem, especially not in LA, so I wonder how many other YouTubers use harddrugs on the regular? Or have heavy drinking problems? I've heard rumors before that the LA YouTube community is messed up, but how bad is it exactly? Who are involved?

Right now, I don't 100% trust anyone involved in this case. Everyone seems to be hiding something, are speaking only half the truth or are just flat out lying. And everyone seems to have issues with something or someone. People are being protected, maybe from both sides. I do lean to the accusers side because where there is smoke, there is fire. But some stuff bothers me and doesn't end up. Basically this whole situation is weird af. It'll probably only get weirder.

Philip DeFranco gave an update in today's PDS, listing everything that has happened since his Monday video (his normal PDS resumes halfway through) for people who aren't keeping up with everything:

Moost youtubers hate this guy, but I follow him for all the dirt in youtube world. In case you guys haven't heard of it, he follows and report on Toby recent drama from Day 1

https://www.youtube.com/user/NewDramaAlert/videos

yonahime wrote:

lionheart wrote:sorry to double post but I've just found Seth's post in relation to Kate's and I'm shocked beyond belief: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 9694667480

if anyone followed Kate around the time she shaved her head, this reveals a lot? but he's also sort of accusing Kate of lying about some of her accusations and I'm not even sure what to think

but he arrived after the accident? so i don't think he really knew what actually went down before he arrived there. And why is Kate's account sounds so much like she didn't want to offend anyone, like she's scared. And why does she have to say that she still loves him and doesn't hate him and doesn't wish him anything bad. While Seth's sounds very... i don't what's the word to describe it, but it's more accusing and guilt tripping her, like 'he was there, he helped her, toby was very concerned about her, toby was worried, toby didn't do anything wrong, toby was good, it's all in her head and she should be grateful towards him and toby'. it just, it screams manipulation to me. He repeatedly said 'Toby was concerned' over and over, like i don't know. I feel very uncomfortable.

After all of these, Toby and the gang just creeps me a lot. And sure maybe all of the victims are not perfect human being, but that doesn't mean the abusive nature of Toby can be brushed aside just like that. I find it scary and pretty sick that in order for a rape survivor account to even be considered is they need to not do literally anything wrong in their life. And then, after that, they need to present their 'evidence' to the whole world.

In the end, he just wants to shut her up. And maybe shut another women who feel like they could share their experiences with Toby. Like, 'if you tell your experience, i would, in turn, reveal to the whole world how not only that wasn't true, you also did this and this and that, so shut up.'

this is true. tbh I'm inclined to believe Kate, but I also believe that there seems to be some holes in both stories - I suppose primarily owing to the fact that Kate didn't want to fully reveal the extent of what happened to her? (in terms of revealing her mental illness, which tbh I'm a bit surprised that Seth felt like it was an ok thing to do to out her like that). it could be that there's been some confusion and they're not exactly talking about the same night, because Seth's talking about a night when her head was already shaved, and in the texts it seems that Kate shaved her head after the main incident with Toby, so maybe it's likely that whatever happened with Toby then sparked the actions that Seth witnessed the day after? idk but it's a heavy story to read either way

and despite that I agree that it's hard to fully trust what anyone's saying right now, there are so many accusations and counter-accusations being thrown out there that the water's very mirky

edit: Kate responded to Seth's post, denying anything about mental illness (again I suppose I'm inclined to believe her) https://www.facebook.com/Katers17/posts ... 5340453627