Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

[lefthandedism]

April Fool's!

Lest you feel too annoyed, here's a pretty picture from sometime in March (probably):

[TuxedoSam]

I'm pain

[000dia000]

Shit April Fools joke. Lads, I've unfollowed Dan on twitter and muted him months ago. I wish him the best in his life and whatever but I don't like the BS he's doing. He's allowed to take a break and retreat, but as others have said he's just attention seeking and should at least give an explanation, if even one tweet. Also, while I'm still following Phil and watching his videos I'm not letting him off the hook with how complacent and vague he's been regarding shit...but at the same time he shouldn't have to take responsibility for Dan's behaviour. Dan's spent so long developing a brand, soaking up the money, and then basically dropped everything with no explanation so if the phandom halves or quarters then let it happen.

[coffeepenguin]

Personally, I didn't find Dan's tweet in a bad taste and it didn't hurt me, on the contrary, as someone said, I was glad to see his being able to joke about it.

Bringing back some points from the last posts in the previous thread (sorry for not quoting, I'm on my phone and it doesn't want to work), I'm wondering if people on here will continue to watch Dan and Phil if in a couple of months Dan comes back, but the joint content remains absent? Like, if summer comes, Dan's back, Phil didn't go anywhere, but there have been no more joint videos and no more joint liveshows since december, only mentions of each other? Leaving aside for a moment arguments about its sustainability as a business model

[alittledizzy]

Doesn't everyone who does a prank on April 1 want attention for it? I feel like Dan communicated something that I'm happy with - an acknowledgement that he knows people are waiting on a video and a comment on when he'll upload (when he's ready) in a really tongue in cheek way.

He's in a lose/lose situation right now. People have spent months shouting that they wanted just signs of life; it's been about five days of very regular social media presence and the glow of that has already faded into demands of more. Which - fine, you know, people can want more. I want more. I want videos. I want joint content back. Individual fans can make their own choice as to whether they want to leave or stay at any point, over anything, but it's not a universal truth that Dan was attention seeking (beyond the normal scope pranks) and I think he's given us plenty of explanation. Understanding doesn't go hand in hand with liking it, but Dan's been very forthcoming over the years about his hang ups with making videos.

[Catallena]

Dan just makes me very very very tired these days. Exhausted. Because I get that he's going through some shit, and I relate. I don't find him attention seeking (or not more than usual anyway... all YouTubers are kinda self obsessed to a degree) and I want to give him all the time he needs. Plus all the love and support. But dammit, he isn't making his comeback any easier on himself rn either now is he? Are we even still in the time that he needs to be ready, or are we in the time where he's freaking out about his grand return and procrastinates? Because that's Very Dan.

The basic communication we've been begging for now being an April Fools joke? Yeah that didn't just make me tired. It put me to sleep. But a happy sleep due to that bit of communication. In the end I'm easy and staying around waiting for him, like I'm Hachi the dog

I hope Phil uploads something good this week. His last video (which I didn't love but evidently I don't have taste) actually did pretty good in views compared to his other recent videos aside from the first one.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna drown my hopes for joined Easter Baking in my bathtub while listening to some kpop. But not BTS, because I'm not taking this prank that far. Even if Jin has a nice face.

[sapienveneficus]

Bringing back some points from the last posts in the previous thread (sorry for not quoting, I'm on my phone and it doesn't want to work), I'm wondering if people on here will continue to watch Dan and Phil if in a couple of months Dan comes back, but the joint content remains absent? Like, if summer comes, Dan's back, Phil didn't go anywhere, but there have been no more joint videos and no more joint liveshows since december, only mentions of each other? Leaving aside for a moment arguments about its sustainability as a business model

That's an interesting question. Back in the day (2012) I was a casual Dan fan. I enjoyed watching his videos because he's a talented storyteller. If they return to that sort of set up with Dan making solo videos on his channel and Phil making solo videos on his channel, and drop their joint content all together (yikes, that sounds like the darkest timeline) I don't see myself sticking around. I'd probably go back to casually watching Dan's videos when (and if) he uploaded because despite all the nonsense he's been pulling, he is still a creator whose content I enjoy.

Gosh, that was a depressing thought experiment.

[knq]

The 16th of February was also a Saturday. Just saying.

Still Alive and still pissing half the phandom off. The true return of Daniel Howell to his people. (That's a lie I don't actually think he's returned.)

I interpreted Dan's initial tweet as a standard 'it's funny how much of a fail I am' type thing and his second as a response to people who didn't know it was April Fools and/or so that on April 2nd the top of his twitter doesn't say "I'm uploading." For him that second tweet is pretty straight forward.

It seems worth noting that as a phandom we've reacted with some anger towards most of the things Dan and Phil have chosen to share publicly this year (and also when they choose not to share something publicly). I can't actually think of anything they've done that didn't receive substantial criticism. Channel membership. Phil's nostalgia videos. Dan's two (2) photos. Phil on facebook. Dan liking things on twitter without tweeting. Dan tweeting. My sense is that as a phandom there's going to continue to be a negative response to any content or communication Dan and Phil put out in the absence of joint content.

[dontpanic]

there's something nostalgic about the way Dan can piss off half the fandom without even trying.

[plinthofmylife]

I’m gonna say “I don’t want to have a shit on Dan party”. I wish we had more communication from him; I think this hiatus is definitely impacting Phil’s channel and all their businesses. I miss their joint content something fierce, but I watched both of them before joint content was their dominant content and I will continue to do so. I maintain that as a creator who has been active for a decade, he’s allowed to have some downtime and take a reset, I hope he’s getting what he needs. If he was a TV show with as many episodes as he had, who had done two live tours, we probably wouldn’t whine about 3 months off.

I hate that literally half the phandom gets angry at Dan no matter how he behaves. Short of live vlogging a dnp proposal I honestly don’t feel like anyone will be satisfied.

I am glad they didn’t completely give up on April fool’s this year. And I hope they haven’t completely given up on Easter baking, but I remain unconvinced.

(When is Easter? I am not Christian, also different Christians have it at different times)

[glitterintheair]

Frankly, I don't even think that the general feeling of anger and frustration is pointed directly at Dan, I think it's more of a reaction towards the situation we're in. It happens with Phil too, just think about the reaction to the firebox spon of fb or the last vid he posted. The uncertainty of it all, not knowing when or if everything will ever go back to normal is frustrating and people will snap even for the silliest things eventually. It's inevitable.

Bringing back some points from the last posts in the previous thread (sorry for not quoting, I'm on my phone and it doesn't want to work), I'm wondering if people on here will continue to watch Dan and Phil if in a couple of months Dan comes back, but the joint content remains absent? Like, if summer comes, Dan's back, Phil didn't go anywhere, but there have been no more joint videos and no more joint liveshows since december, only mentions of each other? Leaving aside for a moment arguments about its sustainability as a business model

Oh boy if they drop joint content I will be out the door so fast you won't even notice that I did it. I started watching them because I love their dynamic; Dan's content is not my cup of tea and Phil's - while enjoyable - is not enough to keep me interested in the long run.
Anyway, I hope that if that's the case they will tell us instead of making us hope and wait undefinitely. Or maybe joint content being dead is an obvious fact that we should've known, just like pinof, you know..

[headaches]

I reallllly hate to say it, but Sometimess i wish dnp were like most youtubers. And by that i mean i wish they posted more random stuff on insta/twitter/youtube without planning or caring, shared fun dramatic stories from their life with us, and just in general communicated with us. I know they're probably tired and over it or whatever by now, but the least they can do is send out the typical influencer post of "things are changing" or "i will be taking a break" or something.. I'm sure people would prefer that than what we're getting now...

& As people who gave themselves the title of being ""entertainers"" last year, im not very entertained rn

[autumnhearth]

The 16th of February was also a Saturday. Just saying.

Still Alive and still pissing half the phandom off. The true return of Daniel Howell to his people. (That's a lie I don't actually think he's returned.)

I interpreted Dan's initial tweet as a standard 'it's funny how much of a fail I am' type thing and his second as a response to people who didn't know it was April Fools and/or so that on April 2nd the top of his twitter doesn't say "I'm uploading." For him that second tweet is pretty straight forward.

It seems worth noting that as a phandom we've reacted with some anger towards most of the things Dan and Phil have chosen to share publicly this year (and also when they choose not to share something publicly). I can't actually think of anything they've done that didn't receive substantial criticism. Channel membership. Phil's nostalgia videos. Dan's two (2) photos. Phil on facebook. Dan liking things on twitter without tweeting. Dan tweeting. My sense is that as a phandom there's going to continue to be a negative response to any content or communication Dan and Phil put out in the absence of joint content.

That’s how I took it as well. And yeah, the negative reactions are something I’ve been thinking about lately.

I was expecting a Mother’s Day tweet from Phil yesterday. He’s be pretty consistent with them. The only years I didn’t see were 2010 and 2012.

eta: oh wow there is only one year Dan tweeted about Mother’s Day and it certainly wasn’t well wishing...

[phanfckingtastic]

It’s not a “universal truth” but an observable pattern in his attitude and behaviour, that he likes to tease (in many different ways) and use his appeal (again, in different areas) to keep people wanting him and get away with being at times plain condescending and bratty with his audience. Be it his cute face, his painted nails/outfits, his “classy nudes” when he just started, or actual videos, he’s used all those to in several situations almost gaslight people into questioning themselves and defend him even when, like today, he makes a bad joke after having slightly worried people with vague depressive twitter replies a few days ago then taking 8 hours to finally! say what he actually wanted to say in the first place (because the ”joke” was just an excuse to say it, obviously).

It’s that vicious circle: Dan vaguely but purposely teases or hints, then when people mention any of those things explicitly in any way that confronts dan’s mysteriously specific vagueness, he gets upset and in a bad mood. Phandom then proceeds to fight itself with the interpretations of his intention, the meaning and the way it was said. It’s happened so many times since his first yt appearance I can’t even count.

And although I think I partially get why, that’s not a balanced way of having relationships of any kind with people. And certainly not the way I like to be treated as someone’s audience. It’s not the way a professional with a decade of experience should manage their public communication, wobbly brain chemistry, or not. Like, I put up with misunderstandings with my friends and they with mine and our somewhat faulty heads because ee’re actual friends and we love each other, but I’m not doing that hard emotional work onesided for a fuckinrg youtuber, no matter how long I’ve been watching or how much I like them.
Both dnp are the least open youtubers I know, but whilst Phil has plenty of silence surrounding certain topics, or avoids things he doesn’t want to be publicly on record about, etc, he’s never disrespectful with his audience like Dan is when he starts patronising like xyz is all in our crazy little minds.

That to me is textbook attention seeking and playing with people’s emotions.
Not on purpose, I believe, because I still think he’s fundamentally a good person.
But for some reason at some point in his life he developed this behaviour and he’s been getting away with it in his public life imo because, to name a few reasons, a) he’s cute, b) we know he has a softer lighter side (mainly thanks to joint content with Phil), and c) he has expressed having good intentions.

Just like months ago I felt like I wanted to express dan might be in a bad place or busy with life and the fans’ expectations for explanations or content were getting too high, I feel today the need to call out this behaviour because it’s astonishing to me how willingly so many phandom members bend over backwards to justify dan acting like an asshole pretty much every time he has something to “announce” or clarify.
He has Phil, his manager, social media expert friends, and at least one therapist. I’m sure between all those people they can help him find a strategy to express himself publicly in clear, direct messages that don’t leave the recipients tired, stressed, sad or in a bad mood every single time (unreasonable expectations put aside, of course.)

- pause for a big sigh.

Having said all that, I wish dan peace of mind and I hope he finds a way to not only cope but thrive in whatever life he wants to create for himself.
In the meantime, I’m sticking with just the Phil part of phan.

[dontpanic]

I love idb, I do, but sometimes I see posts on here that make me sit back and wonder if we're all talking about the same person? like, Dan's a human reacting in real time to a very vocal and opinionated fanbase, sure sometimes he's a dick and we should call him out on that but like, dude... I think I see why he needed to take a break from social media .

[Snowboy]

(When is Easter? I am not Christian, also different Christians have it at different times)

For Western Christianity (which is the version the UK observes), Easter is the Sunday after the full moon after the 21st of March. That puts it on April 21st this year, though celebrations extend from the Friday through to the Monday. So if D&P want to upload an Easter baking video, there's a four day window for them to do it.

[knq]

I know they're probably tired and over it or whatever by now, but the least they can do is send out the typical influencer post of "things are changing" or "i will be taking a break" or something.. I'm sure people would prefer that than what we're getting now...

& As people who gave themselves the title of being ""entertainers"" last year, im not very entertained rn

They are entertainers. That’s not about status, it’s just an accurate description of how they’ve made their money.

They may not communicate in the style you prefer but that doesn’t mean they haven’t communicated. The mukbang, the liveshow, the tumblr answer time, the message in their final gaming video, Dan’s actual tweet today, all of those have been methods of communication. I get that many people prefer something more straightforward and clearly defined, but it’s difficult for me to understand how all of those things, combined with the reality of Dan’s break and the reality of change on Phil’s channel isn’t enough.


I’m also just really not here for seeing Dan’s character torn apart based on two tweets on April Fools, one of which was the straightforward communication people claim to want.

There have been more critical analyses of Dan as a person during the hiatus, when he’s literally not present, than there were when he was here and interacting. So much is projected onto Dan when he’s absent, a mostly blank slate for our anger or sadness.

[phanfckingtastic]

When Dan was still silent and I expressed here I felt it was good to approach it with empathy because I thought many fans were getting carried away demanding him to basically cut it out and “do his job”, I said we don’t know what their personal life is like, lots of you got offended because how dare I invalidate your feelings by suggesting him taking time for himself wasn’t such a catastrophe and that he maybe was going through something serious (or just busy).

Now I bring up my issue with his tendency toward attention seeking & consequently playing with people’s emotions based on actual actions and words (not just these two tweets, it’s years and years as a viewer) and I’m a monster for expressing that, too.
Lol
Ok.

[animad]

I love idb, I do, but sometimes I see posts on here that make me sit back and wonder if we're all talking about the same person? like, Dan's a human reacting in real time to a very vocal and opinionated fanbase, sure sometimes he's a dick and we should call him out on that but like, dude... I think I see why he needed to take a break from social media .

^^

[anna_begins]

Doesn't everyone who does a prank on April 1 want attention for it? I feel like Dan communicated something that I'm happy with - an acknowledgement that he knows people are waiting on a video and a comment on when he'll upload (when he's ready) in a really tongue in cheek way.

He's in a lose/lose situation right now. People have spent months shouting that they wanted just signs of life; it's been about five days of very regular social media presence and the glow of that has already faded into demands of more. Which - fine, you know, people can want more. I want more. I want videos. I want joint content back. Individual fans can make their own choice as to whether they want to leave or stay at any point, over anything, but it's not a universal truth that Dan was attention seeking (beyond the normal scope pranks) and I think he's given us plenty of explanation. Understanding doesn't go hand in hand with liking it, but Dan's been very forthcoming over the years about his hang ups with making videos.

^^Yes to all of this.

I actually thought his April Fools tweets were clever. He communicated with us the answer to a much asked question by saying that he doesn't know specifically when he'll be uploading again and also got in a little prank. It's been a running joke throughout his career that he never uploads so I didn't see it as being insensitive, or intentionally playing with our emotions - just maybe bad timing considering the other changes that have been going on this year. It's a pretty common format on twitter to post the 'prank' part as one tweet and then follow up with the 'truth' part hours later, so I'm inclined to say the second part wasn't done as a response to people's reactions but rather planned all along. I also think the "thank you all for your continued support" was sincere, and not an attempt to manipulate people into feeling bad for criticizing his joke, which I'm sure he expected because he was, after all, pranking us.

[knq]

When Dan was still silent and I expressed here I felt it was good to approach it with empathy because I thought many fans were getting carried away demanding him to basically cut it out and “do his job”, I said we don’t know what their personal life is like, lots of you got offended because how dare I invalidate your feelings by suggesting him taking time for himself wasn’t such a catastrophe and that he maybe was going through something serious (or just busy).

Now I bring up my issue with his tendency toward attention seeking & consequently playing with people’s emotions based on actual actions and words (not just these two tweets, it’s years and years as a viewer) and I’m a monster for expressing that, too.
Lol
Ok.

Your tone is really jarring for this forum; are you intending to come across as aggressive?

Sure, different people will probably agree or disagree with your points or sentiment at different times and in regards to different topics. Why is that unusual? I agree that it's not helpful or useful to demand that Dan "do his job" when we're bored or missing content. I don't agree that he has a tendency toward attention seeking or that he tweeted from a place of attention seeking today (and in general calling someone attention seeking doesn't express much to me. The act of putting our thoughts into words through speech or writing in order to express those thoughts to other people is inherently 'attention seeking.' So sure, a tweet or a prank or a video or... literally any form of communication or interaction seeks attention, but that's not something to criticize or change.)

I don't know what specific actions or words of Dan's you're referring to. Saying that Dan teases ideas but gets in a bad mood when fans mention them isn't specific to a particular time or event. Dan didn't seem to be in a bad mood today. He was barely present. And I find it irritating that manipulative/malicious intentions are assigned to him when another potential return date for joint content that no one was really expecting but somehow we're all disappointed didn't happen passes by.

[karma_yeah]

I'm disappointed.

I took a break of my own shortly after Phil's birthday and what seemed like a fairly lengthy hiatus on their part. It turned out I actually had a little bit of a life, and didn't make it back here until yesterday. I spent a few hours reading IDB trying to catch up, hoping against hope that the drought had passed and there was content to watch and discuss (I don't have any notifications enabled).

I kept reading and reading thinking they had to have come back at some point, right?? And Phil did, sort of. I have to give him credit for uploading, and feel terrible that I didn't find the videos that engaging. Turns out I prefer joint content and #domestic phan, which, truth be told, I already knew - - - - don't worry, I judge me!

Today being April Fool's I thought surely surely surely would put out a funny, creative April Fool's video (I miss you D&PCrafts ). But alas, it was not to be.

Kudos to the mods on here for holding things together and for the funny, creative April Fools "In Depth BTS" . And you might want to stick with it, because tbh, I don't think 2010-2018 D&P exist any more . Who knows, Dan may upload eventually, but I don't think it will be the same. And judging from the last 2 threads I read through, I feel like there's been a shift in the way fans (at least the ones here on IDB) feel about them. Then again, that could just be projection on my part.

Personally, I've not felt "entertained" by in over 3 months, and since I see nothing on which to base any hope that they will return, (at least with the kind of content I enjoyed), I've decided to move on for now to actual content from other you tubers and sources.

I'll set a calendar reminder to check back in the Fall and see if anything ever changes. I hope for everyone here's sake that it does and they decide to be "entertaining" again. I think IDB has been an incredibly loyal and dedicated fan-base, and I've truly enjoyed my time here. I'll miss you all (and the emojis )! Much love

[bevioletsky]

@phanfckingtastic I have no reason to think you’re a monster, but the tone of your posts seemed quite aggressive to me. You talk a lot about Dan’s attention seeking and his behaviour over the years, and... I don’t know, it all just seems unnecessarily harsh to me? Maybe it’s because I’ve only been watching them for a couple of years and during that time I can’t think of a lot of instances where people more widely have seemed to feel like their emotions were being ‘played with’, but I don’t really recognise this phenomenon you talk about, or I certainly don’t feel like it describes Dan’s behaviour to the extent or degree that you seem to imply it does; and honestly I have no desire or energy to dig up and think about any stuff that’s years and years old, especially knowing that Dan has been on a mental health journey and just generally grown and changed as a person, as any other human being does.

I suppose the fact that I was completely unbothered by his tweets yesterday also affects that I’m not feeling all this vitriol, but I really don’t think his joke was cruel. It was a fairly predictable joke about his lack of uploads, he’s made countless similar ones over time. I get that it feels different now that we’ve had basically no content from him for months, so I can understand being a bit upset about it, but eh. I still don’t see it as mean. And the later addition just seemed like a sincere thank you to people continuing being supportive of him? Maybe I’m projecting or overidentifying with Dan, but I still mainly just feel for him, as I’ve done shit all this year and I certainly cannot even afford it the same way he does.

(I see other people already posted similar sentiments while I typed but )

[rizzo]

i will say this: that particular april fools joke was expected of him tbh. at least from me. what i weirdly didn't expect was how much the follow-up to it would set me off.

i'm not necessarily offended or angry at the tweets. i think they were just the random, totally light and barely-there straw that broke the camel's back for me. and i wish it hadn't been april fools, but it is.

followed up by a rick-roll from phil, it all just seemed frustrating to an extreme. and i understand the logic that like... phil's been around like he's always around and that dan is making a very slow comeback. 2 selfies in 2 days really is an improvement on nothing for 2 months. but like. idk how to quit a fandom. when i love something, i suffer through whatever shit happens and this shit is just plain frustrating, even when they're offering us crumbs.

i don't want to repeat the same thing everyone else said, but like... idk. i miss joint content and i miss dan's content because those were my favorite things (i'm sorry, phil. but in all fairness, the cramped white wall doesn't sell me any more than ye olde ikea bedding). i'm glad dan's ~around, but maybe it's him being around and seemingly ok that makes it all the more maddening that there's no joint content. like... look there he is on the couch. and there's phil in front of his beloved white wall. and yet they won't be in the same space together on camera if you fucking gave phil a signed check and a corgi.

i don't like myself for being annoyed. i'd love to appreciate what we're getting, but they're temporary highs. i'd like to have something to look forward to.

[daichii]

I hated Dan's first tweet but I loved the second one. I felt like he acknowledged why he's been mia which is what's been most frustrating for me from the hiatus. Just not knowing what's going on when we used to know a lot (now I recon it was a lot) makes being fan of their joint content super boring.

I lol'ed at Phil's tweet as well... a good old rick roll always makes me laugh though.