Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

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SpikyLeaf
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by SpikyLeaf » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:48 am

I really thought dan would upload something around now. Surely dan would make a video with just him before they make a joint Easter baking video? I’m worried that they might not post an Easter baking video. Although, I feel like they will carry on the tradition because they didn’t say or hint they wouldn’t? Would dan make his first appearance on YouTube since last year on Phil’s channel?



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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by Ablissa » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:14 am

SpikyLeaf wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:48 am
I really thought dan would upload something around now. Surely dan would make a video with just him before they make a joint Easter baking video? I’m worried that they might not post an Easter baking video. Although, I feel like they will carry on the tradition because they didn’t say or hint they wouldn’t? Would dan make his first appearance on YouTube since last year on Phil’s channel?
Considering I don't believe Dan's first 'comeback' to youtube will be through a joint video, my hopes for Easter baking are... non-existent at this point. I'd be happy to be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not holding my breath.
Unless Phil is going to buy himself an Easy-Bake Oven and bake something by himself in front of his white wall.... :shrug:

Edit: Yesyes Game of Thrones. BUT VIDEO? :cry:
Last edited by Ablissa on Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by liola » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:22 am

We literally don't know what they prefer in terms of their audience size or engagement. Wanting the same privacy of a few years back doesn't mean they would trade the amount of people that follow their content. While I do agree that they would probably like less investment in their personal lives, I don't think it's necessarily true for their creator side, which they've said time and time again that they do enjoy. They're pretty tied together, granted, but it's a bit far off to say they would gladly go back to the 2009-2012 era.

I want to touch a bit on the elitism/paywall comments though and humour the idea that a strategy like that would work for deppy.

A paywall-like business model needs substantial factors to work: an engaged audience, a good amount of regularly published content and a solid reason for people to pay for something that would otherwise easily be found online. Dan and Phil are established creators and entertainers who use platforms that are and always have been free to use. Historically speaking, the audience that gravitates towards their content is used to not having to pay for their actual content, which is why youtubers use things like merch sales and subscriptions on a voluntary base. By not putting their actual content behind a paywall, and instead offering perks that don't take away from people unable to pay for it, they're retaining an audience while also curating a more dedicated part of it.

The reason why Phil's subscription isn't really picking up is because he isn't offering that advantage that will make the price worth, which means that the people willing to pay for it do it in a supportive way. If you think putting a paywall for their content would mean giving them back the power that they supposedly have given up to their audience, you're completely wrong. If anything, it will give the audience the power to say that because they're completely paying for the content, they can decide what they have to do and how, and the punishment is a cut of profit that is completely supporting them.

There's been a lot of studies recently about the actual worth of paywall content, particularly regarding the publishing and news field, and a lot of analytical models have shown that it is more detrimental than positive, especially when it comes to a hard paywall (and I doubt a meter-based paywall would work either.) Particularly, it shows a decrease on audience engagement as a whole, which is not as big of an issue in the publishing industry because it doesn't have the personal quality that is instead critical in a creator based field such as Dan and Phil, who are not entertainers specialized in a particular field.

Not to say they have spoken out about making content MORE accessible to online audiences, by increasing globalization of content rather than diminish it, which would clash hardly with the fact that some people wouldn't even be able to pay for the content even if they could, simply because that platform isn't avaialble in their country. Making their own platform? The cost to build it and run it would mean have a big number of paying members, which would defeat the purpose of having a small audience.

And we're not even touching the reaction on a human level that would cause. Being forced to pay for something that has always been free to use and enjoy for 10+ years without giving a solid reason for it wouldn't go well with the majority of their audience, which would cause two things:
a. people who are not bothered upload the content for free anyway
b. the audience get so small that it defeats one of the base principles for the existance of a paywall

Calling Dan and Phil elitists because along the MAIN content that they've provided for free for 10+ years, they've chosen to add paid for content, which was still somewhat accompanied by the same main content that people have always been interested with, or because they've decided to sell merch or have an optional subscription - all thing that they're not forcing on the audience.. is a bit much, imo.

It's also laughable to say that they haven't done what THEY want, because I clearly remember their fans being upset about them writing a book/going on tour and calling them sell-outs, but that was something THEY wanted to do. And also the second book. If anything, most of the things their audience DID ask a lot (go back on the radio, start a podcast, vlog more!) are all thing that they...haven't done. Because they don't want to and because they don't owe us - because we're not paying their paycheck or funding their content in a direct way.
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and how cute Phil Lester is.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by autumnhearth » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:38 am

Yeah sure if they want to be left with a small audience of rich white girls using their parents money to feel recognized by their “dads” elitism would be the way to do it. That following would be nothing like earlier YouTube. Ohh +1 to everything liola said.

@glitterintheair I mostly agree, but I do think they do some things for fan service, because they think it’s what we want, or to prove a point. But ultimately they are in control and have their limits. I was listening to The Resistance last night and I still get big II vibes from Uprising. I was picturing an edit with some of the lyrics and the CONTROL from their tour merch on it. Also gotta have that :deppy: flag raising on top of the O2. 10th anniversary of that album is coming up soon.

Easy bake oven as a performance piece, Phil dying cosmic eggs with a glitter mishap or nothing at all. I don’t think solo baking will ever be a thing and I don’t expect to see Dan in a video for another couple months.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by madzilla84 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:46 am

I was trying to think where I heard Uprising recently, then I remembered it’s on the TATINOF playlist Dan posted on spotify in December.

I’m also not expecting Easter baking, but I can’t 100% talk myself out of hoping; I do hope Phil just says it’s not gonna happen so I don’t spend the whole long weekend waiting and hoping (and instead can spend it moping, I suppose). But I know that’s not usually their way.

Also GTPWTW is a year old today :o

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by glitterintheair » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:48 am

autumnhearth wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:38 am
@glitterintheair I mostly agree, but I do think they do some things for fan service, because they think it’s what we want, or to prove a point. But ultimately they are in control and have their limits. I was listening to The Resistance last night and I still get big II vibes from Uprising. I was picturing an edit with some of the lyrics and the CONTROL from their tour merch on it. Also gotta have that :deppy: flag raising on top of the O2. 10th anniversary of that album is coming up soon.
No yeah of course they do some things because they know (or think) that's what we want, I just hate the idea of them doing things against their will or that they suffer whenever they do it and end up crying ever day in one of their 2943503 bathtubs while sipping wine because of it.

Also great post, liola. :stan:
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by alittledizzy » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:59 pm

liola wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:22 am
The reason why Phil's subscription isn't really picking up is because he isn't offering that advantage that will make the price worth, which means that the people willing to pay for it do it in a supportive way.
I love your whole post but I am just gonna pluck this sentence about to respond, because I think this sums up how I feel about it. I actually think do think his membership thing probably has at least 3-5k - even if you lowball that (he's gotten 1k comments on a locked community post before and the majority of people buying in are always silent/inactive on any platform) and after youtube takes it's share he's still making 10k a month extra, which is probably a good supplement for younow. I would consider that having picked up pretty well, if that''s what you mean.

But I also truly appreciate that Phil is offering very low-demand membership items. I think the entire point of that was to ease the paywall feel by making it clear that no one choosing not to pay is really missing out. It seems very geared toward giving fans a means to support them without pushing any kind of elitism or paywall.

And to echo everyone else, I'd find it unfortunate if they chose to put good content behind the paywall. It would certainly serve to fracture the fandom, which a few may enjoy but I think most of us wouldn't. There is enough normal fall off and turnover in fanbase without adding in people walking away because they're feeling like Dan and Phil are pointedly rejecting them as fans to the mix.

The level of entitlement would probably only skyrocket, as well. If Dan and Phil were serving fans that were paying them directly, people would very demanding about the kind of content they expect and probably even more vocal when it didn't happen. Low stakes membership perks mean that even when it feels like not much is happening no one can say Phil isn't fulfilling them.
glitterintheair wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:48 am
autumnhearth wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:38 am
@glitterintheair I mostly agree, but I do think they do some things for fan service, because they think it’s what we want, or to prove a point. But ultimately they are in control and have their limits. I was listening to The Resistance last night and I still get big II vibes from Uprising. I was picturing an edit with some of the lyrics and the CONTROL from their tour merch on it. Also gotta have that :deppy: flag raising on top of the O2. 10th anniversary of that album is coming up soon.
No yeah of course they do some things because they know (or think) that's what we want, I just hate the idea of them doing things against their will or that they suffer whenever they do it and end up crying ever day in one of their 2943503 bathtubs while sipping wine because of it.
I agree with both of these, because I think that the things they choose to do that they know we want (you can call that fanservice if you'd like but I don't think it's the best term for personality based youtubers) are the things that are in their comfort zone and appeal to them. I don't for a second believe they would do something they didn't want to do just because we wanted them to so I don't think you need to worry about that!

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by anna_begins » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:42 pm

As much as I'm ready for joint content to start again, I think it would feel weird for Easter baking to be Dan's first appearance back on youtube. It feels a bit too much like Dan and Phil™ for where we're at right now. I think when we do see joint content start back up, it will be something new or if it is something we're familiar with it will be only after Dan's reestablished himself on his solo channel. Maybe Easter baking will be one of those things that falls into the "good things come in threes and tens" mindset, and I think I'm okay with that.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by sapienveneficus » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:49 pm

madzilla84 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:46 am
Also GTPWTW is a year old today :o
2018 - The year of giving the people what they want
2019 - The year of giving the people nothing

Gosh, the thought of no Easter Baking is sobering. It's sad to be losing another beloved tradition.

On a lighter note, what's everyone's favorite Easter Baking video?

Mine's got to be: Easter Baking - EXTREME TRIPLE CHOCOLATE NESTS



Phil: "Nice Easter kitchen you've decorated here, Dan."
Dan: "Thank you very much. I tried very hard to make the most out of what Easter themed items we had around the house."
Phil: "What, the printer?"
Dan: "Shut up!" (giving Phil the most fond look in the history of fondness, gosh I miss these two!)
"Someone, somewhere is into that." Daniel Howell

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by rizzo » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:08 pm

I'm less sad about Easter baking and more sad about how - at least for me personally - knowing that GTPWTW was a year ago makes Dan's absence officially a year long. Mostly because that video, far more than TTLMT, feels like his last real Dan-ish video.

And I miss him and his videos a whole lot. And I have this tiny fruitless hope that maybe Phil's postponing his Q&A because Dan's finally decided to post, Beyonce-style. But I've been successful at keeping my hopes and expectations very low this whole time so idk if it's worth changing that.

Sigh.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by autumnhearth » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:24 pm

madzilla84 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:46 am
I was trying to think where I heard Uprising recently, then I remembered it’s on the TATINOF playlist Dan posted on spotify in December.

I’m also not expecting Easter baking, but I can’t 100% talk myself out of hoping; I do hope Phil just says it’s not gonna happen so I don’t spend the whole long weekend waiting and hoping (and instead can spend it moping, I suppose). But I know that’s not usually their way.

Also GTPWTW is a year old today :o
I can also picture their synchronized kicks in their golden jackets as part of a fan music video set to this. Especially the fierceness of Dan’s, lol. So many ideas for creative edits, so little skills and motivation.

Hmm of the three Easter Baking vids (I prefer Halloween) I’m going to go for Bunny Biscuits, not for the actual treat that’s made, but for those grey ears. And the ear fight/boxing.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by flarequake » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:44 pm

Pumpkin Spiced Pumpkin Cookies was my favourite baking video for ages, it was so fast-paced and sparky with the jokes, I watched it every day the first week. I was a bit sad they fast-forwarded through the decorating, though, I love how they get so into that. Spooky Cupcakes is damn cute too what with Phil aka Captain Hindsight on the floor with black icing warpaint clutching a pumpkin, with the revelation that brown cake doesn't let much green food colouring show up and the decoration of those is fun, the orange and green colouring is so bright mixed with the icing and then there's Dan's amazing Shrek face, the purple glitter icing and stars, Phil has some fun there.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by firsttimeposter » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:33 pm

flarequake wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:44 pm
Pumpkin Spiced Pumpkin Cookies was my favourite baking video for ages, it was so fast-paced and sparky with the jokes, I watched it every day the first week.
I agree, I watched it so much for like a full year after it came out! that whole period of 2015 is still a time I look back on cause their videos/other content/development was just at an all time high.

my least favorite baking vid is the last Easter one; I’ve watched it once and always thought the chemistry between them seemed off. I’m guessing it’s because, at the time of the video, there was a lot of discussion about whether dnp were having other people film/edit their videos (and their kitchen obviously seemed like a set). baking videos have always been the most home-ey, domestic and chill of dnp videos to me, and this last one seemed so impersonal idk.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by cherrybomb3 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:04 am

absence makes the heart grow fonder/lets the heart maybe talk to the rest of the body

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by cocolero » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:40 am

It’s amazing that nobody has connected proof of the boys not being able to do what they want with what’s going on right now. It’s being married to YouTube which is killing their potential, and it’s worrying about the lowest common denominator that gives us crap like Phil running the modern equivalent of tags from 2011.

Dan’s the most obvious victim. I imagine he probably wants to prattle on about Brexit, documentaries and his kinks. But he can’t do any of those, because it would get buried by YouTube’s formula, and de-monetized for the latter two. But do we have any proof of this? Yes, his absence. If his primary concern were subscribers or money, we’d still b in a land of llamas nakedbooths. Dan, as we all know, sees himself as above some of that now, and is trying to make art-house content for Nickelodeon.

Dan and Phil have gone as far as they can without growing up, and now it’s either do that or disappear. Implementing a paywall is not primarily about money, it’s about being able to control your own product. Will some people get pushy? Of course. But it beats having YouTube dictate your entire professional career.

Paywalls for personality-led video content online are hugely successful, despite high pay walls and strong elitism. It’s called Chaturbate, and it’s the only model (not actually going on the site, mind) that offers them a way out of this cul-de-sac.. the only question is if they’ll take it while they are still relevant.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by LadyLackless » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:51 am

cherrybomb3 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:04 am
absence makes the heart grow fonder/lets the heart maybe talk to the rest of the body
<3

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by obsessivelymoody » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:12 am

cocolero wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:40 am
It’s amazing that nobody has connected proof of the boys not being able to do what they want with what’s going on right now. It’s being married to YouTube which is killing their potential, and it’s worrying about the lowest common denominator that gives us crap like Phil running the modern equivalent of tags from 2011.

Dan’s the most obvious victim. I imagine he probably wants to prattle on about Brexit, documentaries and his kinks. But he can’t do any of those, because it would get buried by YouTube’s formula, and de-monetized for the latter two. But do we have any proof of this? Yes, his absence. If his primary concern were subscribers or money, we’d still b in a land of llamas nakedbooths. Dan, as we all know, sees himself as above some of that now, and is trying to make art-house content for Nickelodeon.

Dan and Phil have gone as far as they can without growing up, and now it’s either do that or disappear. Implementing a paywall is not primarily about money, it’s about being able to control your own product. Will some people get pushy? Of course. But it beats having YouTube dictate your entire professional career.

Paywalls for personality-led video content online are hugely successful, despite high pay walls and strong elitism. It’s called Chaturbate, and it’s the only model (not actually going on the site, mind) that offers them a way out of this cul-de-sac.. the only question is if they’ll take it while they are still relevant.
Are we...watching the same people? I hope you're possibly taking the piss but regardless I think it's grossly inaccurate to depict Dan as only truly wanting to talk about politics and his kinks, and that he (and Phil) as a result of not being able to monetize the ~true adult~ content they want to produce go the way of Nickelodeon.

I'm confused as to why you think they haven't grown up online. Of course there are limits to both retain the wide berth of audience age they have and monetization but the last year of content as a primary example has portrayed Dan and Phil as adults more than any other year. Sure Phil's content right now is bubbly and fun, and maybe more attractive to a younger audience but he is still very clearly an adult man who talks about adult things and lives a very adult life. I very much dislike the narrative that "growing up" means you have to act within a certain box. Maybe in some aspects of life, but you're allowed to be bubbly at 32, and you're allowed to like bright colours, and talk about wholesome things. And not that Phil always follows that lol, I mean for fucks sake the man made a mile high club joke playing a game for literal children, he (and Dan) aren't holding back in any way they don't deem necessary.

Dan and Phil are able to do what they want. Hell, they could stop posting videos (knock wood they don't) tomorrow if they wanted to. Because they are in control. Sure there are guidelines to abide by, and contracts, as well as strategic thinking to garner and keep an audience, but still. They can do what they want. And you know what? I think Phil seems a lot happier and more into his content, and I know that whenever Dan feels ready he will too (at least...for a period...I know that at least). I think over the last couple years leading up to now--and still following from now--they have been working towards finding a work-comfort balance while laying down their own boundaries and representing the person they feel they are and want to represent. That does not hit a wall that can only be crossed by a paywall (which, btw, I would be upset if they decided to go with that, but dizzy's post about it sums up my feelings). I think even staying on youtube they don't have to family friendly it up to keep making money. I just think it's wildly inaccurate to portray them in a corner, trapped and unable to get out unless they put up a paywall to "finally grow into the adults and people they want to be online!1!!".

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by liola » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:48 am

cocolero wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:40 am
It’s amazing that nobody has connected proof of the boys not being able to do what they want with what’s going on right now. It’s being married to YouTube which is killing their potential, and it’s worrying about the lowest common denominator that gives us crap like Phil running the modern equivalent of tags from 2011.

Dan’s the most obvious victim. I imagine he probably wants to prattle on about Brexit, documentaries and his kinks. But he can’t do any of those, because it would get buried by YouTube’s formula, and de-monetized for the latter two. But do we have any proof of this? Yes, his absence. If his primary concern were subscribers or money, we’d still b in a land of llamas nakedbooths. Dan, as we all know, sees himself as above some of that now, and is trying to make art-house content for Nickelodeon.

Dan and Phil have gone as far as they can without growing up, and now it’s either do that or disappear. Implementing a paywall is not primarily about money, it’s about being able to control your own product. Will some people get pushy? Of course. But it beats having YouTube dictate your entire professional career.

Paywalls for personality-led video content online are hugely successful, despite high pay walls and strong elitism. It’s called Chaturbate, and it’s the only model (not actually going on the site, mind) that offers them a way out of this cul-de-sac.. the only question is if they’ll take it while they are still relevant.
I'm genuinely not even trying to take piss but what are you talking about? Your whole post contradict itself.
First of all, again we have no idea what Dan and Phil really wants and what they want their content to be like. Nothing. We can speculate but it's all wild assumptions. It's a bit amusing to read that doing documentaries would be demonitized when one of the most watched thing of 2018 were Shane's docuseries.

But even then, it's very wrong to say that a paywall is about controlling your own content and not about the money. They can control their own content right now, they're already doing it, by filming and posting what they want, at their own schedule, without the pressure of an audience that is directly paying and funding the production of those videos. There's a difference between the youtube algorithm dictating the spread of a video and paying people demanding a certain type of content, it's so vastly different that I'm not even sure how you can compare the two.

And lastly, there's a difference between personality-led content and sex websites. The audiences and the way content is consumed is so absolutely different that it's basically a cross-industry comparison with different metrics to evaluate. I'm also not sure why you pick the example of a cam website when, i don't know, Youtube is basically doing the same kind of business model right now with the implementation of subscriptions? Except, the cut on Youtube's membership is lower, and creators get money through AdSense rather than tips. It's not a groundbreaking business model, it's literally a Freemium.

Dan and Phil are not struggling freelancers who can't meet the end of the month and need ways to monetize quickly. They're professionals with a 10+ years experience who have build a community and changed their approach multiple times, and who have spoken about wanting those changes when they actually did, like Dan with the danisnotonfire branding. Pretending like they're held in chains by their viewers and the dark lord of Youtube and couldn't change their content and audience if they wanted to is absolutely ridiculous. They have the fanbase and the financial stability to completely change what they're doing and still be able to live comfortably, it's not a fear they have right now. So we just gotta assume they do know what they want better than us.
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and how cute Phil Lester is.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by Stakhanov » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:00 am

cocolero wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:40 am
It’s amazing that nobody has connected proof of the boys not being able to do what they want with what’s going on right now. It’s being married to YouTube which is killing their potential, and it’s worrying about the lowest common denominator that gives us crap like Phil running the modern equivalent of tags from 2011.

Dan’s the most obvious victim. I imagine he probably wants to prattle on about Brexit, documentaries and his kinks. But he can’t do any of those, because it would get buried by YouTube’s formula, and de-monetized for the latter two. But do we have any proof of this? Yes, his absence. If his primary concern were subscribers or money, we’d still b in a land of llamas nakedbooths. Dan, as we all know, sees himself as above some of that now, and is trying to make art-house content for Nickelodeon.

Dan and Phil have gone as far as they can without growing up, and now it’s either do that or disappear. Implementing a paywall is not primarily about money, it’s about being able to control your own product. Will some people get pushy? Of course. But it beats having YouTube dictate your entire professional career.

Paywalls for personality-led video content online are hugely successful, despite high pay walls and strong elitism. It’s called Chaturbate, and it’s the only model (not actually going on the site, mind) that offers them a way out of this cul-de-sac.. the only question is if they’ll take it while they are still relevant.
Best sentence I've read on this forum in a while :lol:

A lot of strong opinions. I do also wonder if we all watch the same people. To me it's very clear they are limited in what they can do on youtube. Their median audience age is what... 15-17 ? Most of their audience aren't even adults while they themselves are in their thirties and late twenties, living a life that's very different from their own teen years. There's a whole fandom doing nothing else than watching their every move, building a web of expectations and theories and critiquing every slight offense they see. On top of that, they are entertainers who are very aware of what content will be more or less popular and they're at least to a degree tuning their video's to meet all those expectations of their audience. To pretend that this all has little influence and that they are free to do as they like? I think that's in conflict with how we know other public figures to behave, or how most of us have to behave ourselves in professional contexts.
"Giving the audience what it wants" is not the same as "Giving the audience what I'd like to have given it". There's no mindreaders in this world so I don't know how we'd be able to tell that they are always doing what they want to do. That seems highly unlikely to me, given what's they said themselves and how other popular youtubers and entertainers are also restrained in significant ways in their profession.

Of course nobody is arguing the fandom is literally standing their with a gun on their heads. That's a straw-man position that nobody really suggest. It's all about the degree to which they could feel limited or even boxed in when they are making their decisions, given the many push- and pull factors at play.
Yes, ultimately they have the choice to do as they want. As all of us have, in a sense, with our own jobs. But it's a bit more complicated than that isn't it? We're all limited by financial or other considerations. I can't know for sure what does or doesn't influence the feeling of freedom they feel they have when making video's, but unless they are completely unique and special from every other youtuber and person out there, there's plenty of considerations to make.
If you have a care for the wishes of your audience, a drive to be successful, a long history with youtube and all it afforded you to do in life, a (very) young audience that has certain types of content it wants and the knowledge and skill to create content that provides for that need, what are you likely going to do?


Suppose Dan wanted to do a much more political channel (I don't know if he does). He could only do it at great risk and great cost (and must hope any benefits outweigh that). A part of the audience wouldn't be interested and wouldn't relate the same way as they would with Dan talking about his college experiences or exam stress. He would be bound to cause controversy, some people just wouldn't like what he's saying and stop watching. It would probably be a lot harder content to make (though i suspect personally more rewarding) . It wouldn't be as easy to involve Phil in it, who might not share the interest and a making a video as a duo doesn't work the same way with every type of content as it does in e.g. DAPG.

So yea, I think in order to make more mature content that would have a more narrow or different appeal (whatever that would be) they'd probably have to trade off part of their existing audience. In such a scenario, something like a patreon or charging money for content isn't a bad deal imo. It's much preferable to no content being produced at all. Or endlessly rehashing the same existent content.
I might not be interested to pay for t-shirts or shelf out 200 dollars for a trip + tickets to a live show, but I would be willing to support Dan or Phil with a small fee each month, and only see a benefit in that fee stimulating them to upload content more regularly and more in line with the content they might prefer to make. If it gives some more control to an audience that's a bit older and more open to them trying new things, even better! The voluntary subscription model Phil just introduced proves that this could work. If he's got a couple of thousand people paying 5 dollars a month, he's earning more from that than the million or so views a video would rake in. If you take into account that their views are declining, it might be even more interesting to use the existing engagement of an audience and pivot to other content. Especially if you're in a situation where you voluntarily ended some of the flagship content (pinof, the sims, DAPG) or put it on hiatus, which doesn't strike me as a decision you'd make if you're still incredibly passionate about making that content.

It doesn't even have to mean you make a "pay wall", you can develop different kinds of models and still produce some content for all while making other content more optional. That's exactly how it was in 2018 with the tour. That clearly took away from their other, free content. Where is this magical 2018 content bonanza? Please point me to the solo Dan content? The solo liveshows? AP and DAPG all produced significantly less video's (I counted the vids in a previous post, it's something like 25-35% less video's). Some extra insta-stories don't cut it for me.
I think the fact that they were on an 'elitist' world tour you could only see when you paid for it and they went to your country offers some explanation here.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by glitterintheair » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am

Let's launch the hashtag #freedanandphil so we can finally free them from their obviously stupid teen audience that only cares about silly things because it's clear that only adults have a functional brain that cares about serious topics. Press F for Dan and Phil and their endangered freedom of expression :dead: .
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by Stakhanov » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:27 am

I detect a little bit of irony in your post, so let me clarify some things that may be (willingly?) misunderstood when I talk about Dan and Phil having a young teen audience and the limits that brings.

There is nothing one can say about one particular person who follows Dan and Phil. One young person of say 15 might be more mature than another adult viewer of 25. What we understand to be "mature" in the context of a "fandom" and the youtuber-audience relationship is quite murky and subjective to begin with. But does this mean nothing can be said and that it doesn't matter that most of their audience aren't adults? No, that would be absurd.
In about every other aspect of society we recognize that a non-adult is still developing. That's why their rights and responsibilities are different from adults. That's why they have legal guardians, why we don't expect them to be financially independent, why we judge them differently in court cases, don't let them drink and don't let them join the army (I would hope, otherwise we're talking child soldiers). The differences aren't limited to legal ones either, we understand that these young people are still cognitively and emotionally developing. I hope nobody would deny that there's certain differences that we see between adults and children on the whole. There's whole strands of science in biology and psychology that back that position.
It stands to reason then that being a (young) teenager will also likely affect what kind of content you want to see from youtubers, as with other media in general. I know it did for me, and about everyone i know. Our preferences changed as we grew older (and still does). That's not to say it's wrong or that you can't like the same things you used to, but the point is that generally speaking there will be differences to e.g. what a 13-15 year old might like to watch vs. what 30+ year olds like to watch. That's why tv-shows and content of all stripes generally will be more or less popular in certain age demographics. So it's something that we see across the board, and something that is in my opinion also at play when Dan and Phil create content for their specific audience.

I wouldn't characterize the Dan and Phil audience as stupid and only caring about silly things, but I think it would be a disservice to ignore that the generally young audience constrains Dan and Phil in some ways, at least if they care at all about keeping this audience.
Last edited by Stakhanov on Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by glitterintheair » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:35 am

Well, I'm 28 and I am easily pleased with Jenna Marbles turning herself into a chair or Safiya Nygaard baking lipstick into a cake, so this is a pointless argument anyway.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by Stakhanov » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:43 am

That does sound like fun. I like both "silly" and "serious" content myself.
i'm not intending to make an argument out of any of this but clarifying my position in case somebody wanted to imply that I'm saying all kinds of things about Dan and Phil's teen audience which I don't.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by liola » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:53 am

Okay, so do you think they want to change audience or not? Cause a few posts ago it seemed like the discussion is that they 100% dislike this current fandom because it keeps them constrained so they'd rather lose a huge part of the audience just to do what they want - which again they could do even staying on YouTube! Because they could attract a new target audience to give this apparently dream content, it's not like other YouTubers don't do it? The paywall argument was brough up as a quick clean cut to drop the audience but now you're saying changing their content would make them lose part of the audience (yes, true) so do we agree the paywall is kind of pointless in that context? And that changing completely the type of content by putting it behind a paywall would destroy one of the fundamental needs for a paywall aka a large dedicated fanbase?

Like, what are we talking about? Everyone can feel a block with their line of work, and of course changing it up isn't easy, but they do not have the same financial worry that us commoners can have, and it's pointless to deny it. If they wanted change, really want it to the point that this is what it's holding them back, they would. Because like we've said, they've already done it, by dropping staples of their brands like pinof, dinof etc, which was met with disappointment and they did it anyway. They're grown up professionals, not victims of the bad wolf of the phandom. Feeling creatively frustrated is normal, but it doesn't mean that it's because of US, rather it's because it's part of the creative process.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Post by glitterintheair » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:22 pm

Can I also say that I'm not quite sure where this 'dan and phil are constrained by the fandom' thing comes from? When exactly did they ever say that? We know that Dan struggles with making videos but that goes waaaay beyond the fandom and Phil seems quite okay with his actual content. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that a lot of discussion that happened this year re: Phil's content was from people who wanted more 'adult' stuff from him, so really.. saying that the phandom is holding them back is ridiculous because it feels like quite the opposite to me.

Dan and Phil want to lose their loyal audience and experiment with new stuff? They can. They want to keep it? They can. They don't need anyone's permission to do what they want. And if they're not doing something it's not because the phandom is the big villain that forces them not to do it but probably because they simply don't want to. As liola said, they already stopped things like pinof and hell, they even put dapg on hiatus and they know how much loved those things were within' the phandom. If they really felt like they couldn't do what they want, they would've kept pinof and dapg going for years, but they didn't, because it's their content and they decide what they want us to see, how and when.
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