Dan & Phil Part 86: here, queer & full of existential fear

[confusedpanda]

Hi guys! Oh my god, its been so long since I've been on here!! I just wanna say first of all, Happy pride month to all my fellow queers out there. And second of all, Dan's coming out video made me cry so much. I am so so SO proud of him and in AWE at how he came out. I love him very dearly and honestly cannot stop smiling about how happy i am for him. The day before the video came out, I actually came out on my IG about how I'm a lesbian, it was scary since my cousins follow me on there but they were so supportive and lovely, and then dan posted his video and I just felted even more valid. But also, my parents and other (older) family members don't know yet and i dont know when i'll tell them... (pay in mind Im engaged so i have to tell them sometime soon...yikes...) but dans video has given me an idea of how i could come out to them and im happy about it.
I can't forget about Phil lowkey coming out as well, sooo on brand for phil! I miss being active in the phandom at times like this because its when we all come together as one and are just extremely proud, happy and in awe. Its a beautiful thing. I hope everyone is doing well and also not as important as the overall message of the video but my heart melted when dan called phil his "actual soulmate"
This video is something that i honestly made me want to embrace my gay ass self more than i already am this month. So thanks Dan Howell, I love you and you're proof that things can and do get better over time!

[pilotlight]

Behold, the field in which I've planted my fucks about what random out$iders think of the phandom, and see that it is barren.

[lurkin]

I suddenly just thought about the charlieskies things from 2013, and it was already super shitty then. But with all the context we have now about dan's childhood/teen years and all the homophobia he faced and how terrified he was about being gay and people knowing he was gay, that twitter interaction hits even harder. I'm sure charlie didn't know about dan's past or anything since I don't think they were close, but man that whole thing is even shittier to think about now

i just had a violent flashback to 2013 and am so glad at how far everything and everyones come

[starwatersong]

Can I hope for Dan Howell as a judge on the British version of RuPaul’s Drag Race now?

[eevee]

The day before the video came out, I actually came out on my IG about how I'm a lesbian, it was scary since my cousins follow me on there but they were so supportive and lovely, and then dan posted his video and I just felted even more valid. But also, my parents and other (older) family members don't know yet and i dont know when i'll tell them... (pay in mind Im engaged so i have to tell them sometime soon...yikes...) but dans video has given me an idea of how i could come out to them and im happy about it.

Hello! Congratulations on coming out on IG!! It sounds like Dan's story must have really resonated with you, especially the fact that he only recently came out to his family. Dan's video is helping SO MANY people with this, I hope he knows!

Best wishes on the coming out to your fam, I hope it goes the best possible way!

[knq]

Can I hope for Dan Howell as a judge on the British version of RuPaul’s Drag Race now?

Oh my gosh The future is pretty queer and full of so many possibilities!

I'd equally like to see Phil on Drag Race. He would be so funny and clever in such an understated way. I feel like I miss Phil today. It's weird because he tweeted not long ago at all. Dan and Phil seem to decide which of them will be active on social media at a time and stick with that, but their personalities balance each other and they play off each other so well that when one of them is very active I kind of miss the other? Idk.

[alittledizzy]

[victorycafe]

I'm late as hell; I watched half of the video when it came out and had to save the other half for today. The thing that struck me the most in the second half is that he's just recently come out to his immediate family. Whether or not he and Phil are together currently, that means that for a time, Dan was putting up the same front to his family that he was putting up to the viewers, and that makes me so incredibly sad for him. Even if it may have been a situation where there was knowledge in the family without it being officially spoken, I am SO happy that he was able to come out to them on his terms and get loving reactions.

[anna_begins]

Speaking of "companionship", I just thought of this clip from an old Dan liveshow and it makes my heart very warm.

[starwatersong]

[Phantasy]

I’d love to see if there’s gonna be any shift in social media likes from Dan... over the past year most of his likes have been for members of the queer community (not exactly subtle lol), but usually on their more innocent posts... wonder if he’ll start up more with outright “thirst likes”... he’s already liked Connor and Olly Alexander posts today.

[nigel ratburn]

completely unrelated to everything but i just had a vision of dan and phil playing wii sports resort and i have never missed the gaming channel more

EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THAT MY BRANDING IS GAY NOW OMG this month has really delivered hasn't it

[phanniemegan]

I’m just so so happy for dan. I’m reminded of the speech Jenifer Garner gives in Love, Simon, about how he gets to exhale now and be more him then he has in a long time. I think that really applies to him, and shows in how he’s acted since coming out. He finally gets to be truly himself not just in front of us, but his family as well. It must be the biggest weight off his shoulders.

[scientia]

I'm sure a lot of us have seen this/similar things already but I thought it would be nice to bring it over here:



The first clip had me crying!

[spaceguitar]

I was and still am so happy for Dan.
Is anyone else feeling anxious about the fate of the Phandom though? The shitstorm over the ImAlexx video made me anxious. There are several messages i don't like from the video:
1. He basically says that RPF is wrong, which is a hard message to swallow for a group of fans & stans.
2. He seems to claim that people obsessing over Dan made it harder for him to come out (??) when in fact I was pretty sure Dan said that the supportive community (phandom) made it welcoming.
3. This is a delicate time when everyone is reassessing boundaries with Dan following his request for privacy, and being scolded by a genius *commentary* youtuber really doesn't help anything.
Those are just some of my thoughts for now...
I just don't see why people have to turn Dan's coming out into something negative like this.

[spaceguitar]

I'm also hella confused by all of the policing that is going on about 'fetishizing' Dan. I won't claim fetishizing does not happen in this fandom; in fact, it happens in most of them. I will say that I think i noticed it happening a lot more a few years ago among DnP fans- but then again it can be hard to distinguish between 'gross' fetishizing and 'annoying' and sometime excessive shipping- but it has been present in this fandom.
It somehow feels like people are saying that I should not be consuming Dan's content, participating in fan communities, or stanning him. Like ya I know that he is a human being, a person who deserves respect- he's also a person with a massive fandom formed around him. Policing the fandom and telling them they are doing something wrong seems highly stupid considering they are the ones who are supporting Dan and (dare i say it) keeping him relevant. The fandom is the reason that social media cares about Dan lol- it perpetuates his popularity. I can't help but feel that people are criticizing the very thing that makes Dan so present on the internet. If Dn did not want the attention, he would leave.

[dc34]

Hello All!
I took a break from idb but I have so many thoughts and im not the most articulate person in the world so pls bare with me as I word vomit

Im soooo proud of dan. The video is amazing but I haven't slept well in 2 days cause like the kids are saying "everything hits different" . Its just so Dan, I honestly never thought either of them would come out but they did in the most dan and phil way and it honestly makes me giddy with happiness. As someone who's been in the fandom for 5 years, I've never been more excited for the next chapter

I also think this video showed all of dan's strengths as a content creator, he is one amazing storyteller and knows how to balance seriousness with humor. While im mainly glad the reason this video hit number 1 in trending is bc of how important it is, a small part of me is also happy that this amazingly crafted video shows non dnp viewers why Dan is so popular. I feel for the longest time there was this stigma that the only reason dnp were popular was bc they were two attractive emo guys and while I do think they are good looking the reason I started watching them was bc I found Dan's videos hilarious and then found phil.

Alex's video ............ sigh. I'm over it, i'm sick of creators shitting on us like they understand the relationship between dnp and us. Like someone previously mentioned, its a combo of alex projecting his problems onto dan, misunderstanding what dan was saying, and just not having an understanding about the phandom bc he's not in it. Also, the whole monetizing thing is one big YIKES. Dan shared some of the most personal things in his life to many strangers, and to make money off of someone's else's coming out is really ugly.

Weird thing thats happened bc of this video, this obsession with not mentioning phan and not mentioning phil in relation to dan. I had someone angry at me cause I said dan and phil were soulmates, and how dare i make this about phan when dan literally says it in the video that their soulmates. Dan admits to his relationship with phil being " more than romantic", these are things that are mentioned so why is it wrong to talk about. The intentions are nice I guess, but the fake wokness and need to act morally superior is annoying me. The only thing I can compare it to is when phannies wouldn't talk about adrian or get mad at people for talking about him when the dude was making vegan videos on youtube. Its there, we can talk about it, people, and by this i mainly me non phandom members, need to stop acting like its taboo and insinuating being happy for dan and phil's relationship is the same as fetishizing.

Anywho, another big downside now is the fact that many fan artists and fan fic writers are getting attacked and that upsets me. A big reason the phandom is still alive and kicking even after a year long hiatus from one half of this duo is bc of the amazing people in this community who are producing content when dan and phil weren't. So, I just want to say a thanks and an appreciation to all of you who have contributed to the phandom through your art

[socksparadox]

Alex's video was quite the hot take, but I definitely think he's clearly too out of touch with the phandom to be making a video about this lol. A lot of commentary YouTubers have a bad habit of doing minimal research on a very complex topic so that they can pump out a video on it while it's still trending - and he's one of them.
Everyone has different boundaries that they don't want crossed, and I feel like Dan and Phil have made theirs pretty clear. I don't think they have much of an issue with fanfics/art as much as the speculation about their real lives. I mean hell, they both wrote their own parody fics for their channels. I think if they had an issue with any of that, they would've put us in our place by now. But hey, that's just my interpretation of everything they've put out there.

[spaceguitar]

Alex's video was quite the hot take, but I definitely think he's clearly too out of touch with the phandom to be making a video about this lol. A lot of commentary YouTubers have a bad habit of doing minimal research on a very complex topic so that they can pump out a video on it while it's still trending - and he's one of them.
Everyone has different boundaries that they don't want crossed, and I feel like Dan and Phil have made theirs pretty clear. I don't think they have much of an issue with fanfics/art as much as the speculation about their real lives. I mean hell, they both wrote their own parody fics for their channels. I think if they had an issue with any of that, they would've put us in our place by now. But hey, that's just my interpretation of everything they've put out there.

I don't think I've ever seen a commentary video that I liked or agreed with
Just generally that type of video seems petty to me

[anathema]

The next thing I want to talk about is Dan shaming the entire phandom for speculating and talking about him and phil.

This got to me the first time or two I heard it because I was one of those people. I've been in the phandom since about late 2010/early 2011, so I've witnessed the original dailybooth and formspring posts before they were even taken off their respective websites. Now, I don't even think phandom members can find them if they don't have them saved to their computer. It's a different time. But that's beside the point. Dan definitely seems bitter about all of us talking about how "he's bi" (he posted this on formspring multiple times) and how he's with phil. And clearly, it really affected and hurt Dan, because he wasn't ready to be out on a large scale. He explained it in this video. But I also feel...and please don't attack me...that Dan is a public figure. So I don't think it's wrong of us to not only look at things he himself posted, but also speculate. Is it invasive? Sure. Is it just a fact of our culture and human curiosity? Double sure. I really don't think there's any world in which Dan would've been in the spotlight and his fanbase wouldn't have speculated. As some of you have pointed out, we were looking into it because it was so damn beautiful and all of us were shook and are STILL shook to this day that a pure and beautiful love like this can really exist. But I can see that Dan thought we were evil crazy people trying to out him. I just would hope that soon he would come to terms with the reality that if you're in the public eye, people are going to be interested in your private life "like a soap opera." at the same time he 10000% has the right to keep it private and we DO have an obligation to respect that, meaning we shouldn't be demanding things from him. But I don't think that's the same as speculating. So, basically I feel like we are not in the wrong for using information provided to us by dan and phil to discuss and speculate. and I'd like Dan to come to that realization.

I partly agree with you. Yes, Dan is a public figure, and along with that comes speculation. Whether or not it's right, it's the world we live in, and it's to be expected if you're in the public eye. However, I think what Dan was bothered by were the people who were trying to dig into his personal life, who tried to find any proof they could of his sexuality and him being romantically involved with Phil. But the thing is, because he actually is gay and is with Phil, that means there was actually something there to uncover. It means that had someone been successful in finding definitive proof, they would have been outing him.

I think it depends on where, personally, someone draws the line. For some, everything put on the internet is fair game. But I imagine for Dan, there were some things that were a slip of the tongue, said in the past, etc. that he felt like people shouldn't be looking into and yet they did. He wasn't ready to come out, yet people went against that by looking for anything to show that there was a reason to come out in the first place.

You say it's not wrong to use the information provided to us to speculate, and I agree. But the problem lies in the fact that some things talked about weren't provided to us by d&p, but rather dragged from the depths of the internet where people had no right to be looking in the first place.

[noodlebum]

I also think this video showed all of dan's strengths as a content creator, he is one amazing storyteller and knows how to balance seriousness with humor. While im mainly glad the reason this video hit number 1 in trending is bc of how important it is, a small part of me is also happy that this amazingly crafted video shows non dnp viewers why Dan is so popular. I feel for the longest time there was this stigma that the only reason dnp were popular was bc they were two attractive emo guys and while I do think they are good looking the reason I started watching them was bc I found Dan's videos hilarious and then found phil.


The only thing I can compare it to is when phannies wouldn't talk about adrian or get mad at people for talking about him when the dude was making vegan videos on youtube. Its there, we can talk about it, people, and by this i mainly me non phandom members, need to stop acting like its taboo and insinuating being happy for dan and phil's relationship is the same as fetishizing.

Anywho, another big downside now is the fact that many fan artists and fan fic writers are getting attacked and that upsets me. A big reason the phandom is still alive and kicking even after a year long hiatus from one half of this duo is bc of the amazing people in this community who are producing content when dan and phil weren't. So, I just want to say a thanks and an appreciation to all of you who have contributed to the phandom through your art

Just want to say great post and I particularly agree with all of the above

[so_cheesy]

I agree wholeheartedly with Alex's video. Some of you needed a reality check.

[nephilimcat]

I have not seen the video that Alex guy made because I don't like those types of videos and the fact he monetised it - yikes.

But here's the thing: I think it's pretty weird to write fanfiction about real people that actually exist. I mean, imagine you go about your day and suddenly you see a smutty drawing or very dramatic fanfic of you and your partner (regardless of your relationship status and if you're just friends or actually a couple but especially if you are closeted)! That's awkward and weird, I'm sorry, but it is. And while I think there's a difference between creating these things and tagging the people depicted in it or keeping it within the fan community itself and thus giving them a choice to ignore it, it's both still weird in my opinion.

I'm not saying this as if I've never participated in this kind of behaviour. I've looked at phanart, I've watched phanvids, I've speculated about their private lives. The only thing I never really felt comfortable with were phanfics. But a while ago I started to disagree with my own behaviour, which is one of the many reasons I stopped posting here. Idk, I think it's fine to draw them in general or to make fanvideos, but fanfics and smutty drawings and digging into their personal life in any way ... don't you think that's incredibly invasive and wrong even if they don't ever see it?

I mean, you could argue that this forum existing is in itself invasive. I think partially it is, some topics discussed (again not claiming I have never participated myself) I find very invasive but some discussions are very great too and not invasive at all. That's why I came back after Dan's coming out video, because it's nice to see people's thoughts, personal experiences and support, especially as a queer person myself. But like, we should probably only discuss videos and things openly shared and not stuff like flat layouts or relationship status.

And I'm not saying this to attack anyone or claim to be the person who knows what is considered invasive and what not. Who knows, some things I see as invasive, Dan and Phil might not mind at all and other things I'd consider fair game, they might feel very uncomfortable with! I just think we should all think twice if what we're publishing could be a bit invasive and if in doubt, rather not post it. Or think to ourselves: if Dan/Phil/both saw this, how would I feel? I personally am not going to post anything anymore that I would be embarrassed if they read it.

I'm also a hypocrite because I'll likely still read some of the more invasive discussions with great interest while feeling guilty

[glitterintheair]

Dan and Phil:explicity said that they're okay with fanfics and fanarts, they even wrote fanfics about themselves.

People: hmm I don't know, they're probably uncomfortable with fanworks :// we should stop ://

I give up. Anyway, Dan Gay.

[kavat]

I think every person in a fandom will draw the line at different places regarding what's invasive or not. What fan A is fine with will be different from what fan B is fine with, and what celebrity X is fine with will be different from celebrity Z.

What we know about this situation is that Dan and Phil are fine with fanworks. They actively encourage fanart by liking, retweeting and making it a part of their own creations. They lift and acknowledge fanfiction by recreating it in tatinof, writing it in tabinof and reading it in videos.

Dan and Phil know their audience really well and are really good at navigating social media and fan spaces. They know which hashtags to avoid and which are safe, so as long as fanwork creators follow the etiquette of correct tagging, it should be fine.

But that's not easy for someone who are not part of this fandom (like Alex) to know and understand. It took me months in the phandom to understand what the etiquette was around certain things. Each fandom has its own culture and takes a while to get how a specific fanspace works.