Dan & Phil Part 87: post coming out universe

[wells.kai]

on the subject of the ace thing: i definitely consider myself on the ace/aro spectrum but i think im demi... so many people dont understand these non binary identities... my biggest issue at the moment is people telling me its not valid for my gender to be non-binary (binary trans folks are saying this to me)... i think this is what i hate most about the LGBTQ+ community... as dan said outsider homophobia isnt an issue for me as much as discrimination within a group of people that should stand together to fight discrimination in general...

idk if i can say im welcome in the ace family here but id like to think maybe i am?


sidenote: i ACCEPT everyone of any identity labelled or not... to make this in context with deppy dan said it beautifully in his vid


another way to connect this to deppy is i love phils point of you never stop coming out... i feel like theres bigger coming outs and as you come out to more people in life it kind of becomes “less” of a big deal... idk i dont feel anxiety telling people im part of the community but i still need to be careful who i tell obv


im rambling sorry


UPDATE: WOWIE its strange to start a new page i find... just me? okay sorry

[GalaxyDarling]

It was around 80% female last year
https://danandphilsurvey.tumblr.com/pos ... ions-about
Maybe it's because they aren't the typical youtube lads, that they seem to have more of a female (or queer male?) following?
Love stats, I forgot about the phandom survey, must study it intently

Oh my gosh, only 3.9% of cis males? I would be in that group. I have always been attracted to female favorites, but many others gays apparently are not. That's a shame really. I trust women and non-binary people more when it comes to taste in men.

[drago]

It was around 80% female last year
https://danandphilsurvey.tumblr.com/pos ... ions-about
Maybe it's because they aren't the typical youtube lads, that they seem to have more of a female (or queer male?) following?
Love stats, I forgot about the phandom survey, must study it intently

Oh my gosh, only 3.9% of cis males? I would be in that group. I have always been attracted to female favorites, but many others gays apparently are not. That's a shame really. I trust women and non-binary people more when it comes to taste in men.

But the thing is there are a LOT of gay women as well.

[GalaxyDarling]

Oh my gosh, only 3.9% of cis males? I would be in that group. I have always been attracted to female favorites, but many others gays apparently are not. That's a shame really. I trust women and non-binary people more when it comes to taste in men.

But the thing is there are a LOT of gay women as well.

I meant that other gay men are often not attracted to/following female favorites. The Grindr gays (as Dan called them) are mostly looking for more masculine guys.

[kavat]

It was around 80% female last year
https://danandphilsurvey.tumblr.com/pos ... ions-about
Maybe it's because they aren't the typical youtube lads, that they seem to have more of a female (or queer male?) following?
Love stats, I forgot about the phandom survey, must study it intently

Oh my gosh, only 3.9% of cis males? I would be in that group. I have always been attracted to female favorites, but many others gays apparently are not. That's a shame really. I trust women and non-binary people more when it comes to taste in men.

But the thing is there are a LOT of gay women as well.

Makes me think of this reply from the tumblr q&a last year:

x

As well as this:

x

[noodlebum]

Love it. The internet can do so much good, but it's always the bad things that get mentioned and the good overshadowed. So good for helping to feel to belong somewhere when perhaps in real life you don't. Or give you the confidence to find somewhere/people in real life you make you feel you belong

[apathy]

I can’t speak for all aces/aros, but I’ve noticed personally what I’m drawn to is people with a super strong bond that doesn’t require being expressed romantically or sexually to be valid. Like they have so much trust and compliment each other so well that adding any other layers after friendship doesn’t make it either better or worse, because the core relationship is still there and the same either way. If that makes sense, not sure I’m explaining well. D&P fit right into that though... they’re “real best friends” and soulmates above any other connection, even as stated by Dan.

It’s probably from my own desparate wish to have a platonic best friend where romance isn’t necessary to be unbreakable.

[autumnhearth]

^ apathy that makes perfect sense! Sometimes I’ll just have these moments of awe that Dan and Phil have this special thing that so many romantic couples *don’t* have. I need that quote from Chris/crabstickz (I’m sure he’d be pleased with a self-cest ship) about D&P’s special connection. Something about something many will never experience? Help?

I was curious, so I looked back at the 2018 Phantom survey results, and apparently, 5.6% of participants identified as asexual! I've heard the 1% statistic too, so idk if it's a case of D&P indeed attracting more ace people, or if the 1% stat is wrong (I'd hazard a guess that it's more a case of the former, seeing as how their audience is more queer than the general population. But I wouldn't be surprised if the 1% stat is off either.).

(the graph is from here. I think it's also really interesting to see how their fanbase has gotten a lot more queer since 2015!)

Those graphs are beautiful! I love the way the red and yellow shrink and the other bands get wider. The raspberry is stunning! Multiple options apply is almost a third! <- how I feel right now

I would love candles but personally I think the emoji choices were just all blue...so the merch will definitely be blue...lame (unless it's the boy/boy sign in blue..thatd be lit)

Not to re-animate a tired discussion but I don't see where the confusion is coming in on if Phil was out prior to this and if Dan was out prior to this. I thought both their videos made it extremely clear that Phil was out before the video and Dan was not out before the video. Out meaning out to the people you know in real life.

Also, how could Phil talk about re-coming out so frequently like that if he hadn't experienced it? Speaking from what other gay people say? Why wouldn't he just say "from what I've heard" ? I think Phil was out to "everyone" before this, including randos, or else he wouldn't have had that experience of re-coming out. If this was his first coming out that wouldn't make any sense.

Uh it really doesn’t have to be All or Nothing. Just because Dan wasn’t out to his family doesn’t mean he wasn’t out to their irl (lol) friends. Just because Phil *was* out to his friends, family, business associates and neighbors apparently, still doesn’t equal = everyone. I do think the strangers thing (heh) is mostly humor.

[GalaxyDarling]

Does Phil have more friends than Dan? I've been looking at those Jealous Dan videos; it seems like he is really possessive of Phil and misses him greatly when he's gone for his trips abroad. It feels like Dan is a bit lonely still sometimes. Correct moi if mistaken.

[feenix]

Does Phil have more friends than Dan? I've been looking at those Jealous Dan videos; it seems like he is really possessive of Phil and misses him greatly when he's gone for his trips abroad. It feels like Dan is a bit lonely still sometimes. Correct moi if mistaken.

I think they largely have the same friend base as far as I'm aware, maybe a couple of exceptions either way (like Louise is closer with Dan). I can definitely relate to Dan though. My fiancee and I have our own friend groups that we merge and are friends with each other's friends. When I go away anywhere without her, she's happy to do her own thing. When she goes away without me, I get really lonely and have to get someone to stay with me so I'm not by myself. I think certain people just get lonelier in their own company. I can see Dan being that way with his mental health struggles and being a bit of an over-thinker.

[liola]

Dan is also way more likely to just show that he's missing Phil, more than Phil is. Doesn't make Phil less lonely - if he is. He's Mr "I haven't seen you in 10 hours I wanna tell you about my lexicon!0

[kalli]

So many fellow aces/aros, hello hello hello

There seems to be two separate analyses from the 2018 Dan and Phil Survey concerning the phandom's experiences of sexuality and romantic attraction. The one that has already been mentioned which includes a multiple options apply category, and one which only uses specific labels that can be found here. 15.56% of survey participants identify with the asexual spectrum, 5.79% with the aromantic spectrum, 6.71% with demisexuality, and 5.67% with demiromanticism. That's a lot of us!

I can’t speak for all aces/aros, but I’ve noticed personally what I’m drawn to is people with a super strong bond that doesn’t require being expressed romantically or sexually to be valid. Like they have so much trust and compliment each other so well that adding any other layers after friendship doesn’t make it either better or worse, because the core relationship is still there and the same either way. If that makes sense, not sure I’m explaining well. D&P fit right into that though... they’re “real best friends” and soulmates above any other connection, even as stated by Dan.

It’s probably from my own desparate wish to have a platonic best friend where romance isn’t necessary to be unbreakable.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Their relationship is so beautiful and sexual/romantic interest in each other has never been what defines it as such, the underlying bond they have is what makes it so admirable above all. It's different from the types of relationships you typically see represented and I find it quite comforting.


Also, I'm so ready for some scented phandles, I hope that's actually what the merch is.

[kavat]

I think it makes sense that they share the majority of their friends. Dan was trying to escape his home town and everyone he knew there when he met Phil, and Phil had a bunch of friends he liked and could introduce Dan to. And anyone they got to know after they met, they would probably know together as they do everything together. Most "normal" people have their own workplaces or hobbies where they can meet new people, but these dudes can't seem to leave the house without each other, so I'd be surprised if they had many separate friends.

Though, Dan did go on that mysterious walk with someone that one time. Who knows what that was about.

[noodlebum]

I can’t speak for all aces/aros, but I’ve noticed personally what I’m drawn to is people with a super strong bond that doesn’t require being expressed romantically or sexually to be valid. Like they have so much trust and compliment each other so well that adding any other layers after friendship doesn’t make it either better or worse, because the core relationship is still there and the same either way. If that makes sense, not sure I’m explaining well. D&P fit right into that though... they’re “real best friends” and soulmates above any other connection, even as stated by Dan.

It’s probably from my own desparate wish to have a platonic best friend where romance isn’t necessary to be unbreakable.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Their relationship is so beautiful and sexual/romantic interest in each other has never been what defines it as such, the underlying bond they have is what makes it so admirable above all. It's different from the types of relationships you typically see represented and I find it quite comforting.

Yes I like this aspect about DnP's relationship too Like an innuendo as much as anyone else but not so much interested in actual bedroom activities!

Probably why I quite like YA novels despite being almost 30, as the characters are often less preoccupied with sex, and more friendship/romance/soulmates (alongside fighting dictators/the regime/aliens/zombies )

What time are we thinking for Phil's big reveal today. 8pm UK time?

[Omgsonew]

Bringing these back bc I just remembered them lol

There's a lot of hits-different stuff among his old vyou answers.

On another note, the possibility of Dan and Phil's relationship taking different forms over the years is a theory I personally haven't seen brought up. The manner in which he neither confirms nor denies them being together now makes me feel pretty sure that they are -

"And I bet so many people want to know so much more about that, which, honestly, I take as a compliment, but here’s the thing: I’m somebody that wants to keep the details of my personal life private. So is Phil. I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that. I want to do certain things without an audience. I want to be spontaneous. I don’t want to feel afraid to take risks. I want to enjoy totally fucking something up and not have to post a public statement about it. And if anyone thinks people really have to share these things about their life, you need to rethink your position."

- but approaching it from the angle of not wanting to have to make a declaration to the world if something changes might imply there was a time when they weren't. I guess it's still a strong possibility that they have been together the entire time and are just super cautious of the fact that no one can predict the future and literally any couple could break up, but a consistent 10 year relationship seems, to me at least, too stable of a thing to still be dedicatedly doubtful of.

Idk this is just wild speculation on my part, but I could read it as them not wanting to publicly commit to a current relationship status because it has changed in the past and they don't want to say for sure that it won't again. Even though they probably are together and, regardless, will surely always be in each other's lives no matter what form their relationship takes.

[cheekyc]

On another note, the possibility of Dan and Phil's relationship taking different forms over the years is a theory I personally haven't seen brought up. The manner in which he neither confirms nor denies them being together now makes me feel pretty sure that they are -

"And I bet so many people want to know so much more about that, which, honestly, I take as a compliment, but here’s the thing: I’m somebody that wants to keep the details of my personal life private. So is Phil. I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that. I want to do certain things without an audience. I want to be spontaneous. I don’t want to feel afraid to take risks. I want to enjoy totally fucking something up and not have to post a public statement about it. And if anyone thinks people really have to share these things about their life, you need to rethink your position."

- but approaching it from the angle of not wanting to have to make a declaration to the world if something changes might imply there was a time when they weren't. I guess it's still a strong possibility that they have been together the entire time and are just super cautious of the fact that no one can predict the future and literally any couple could break up, but a consistent 10 year relationship seems, to me at least, too stable of a thing to still be dedicatedly doubtful of.

Idk this is just wild speculation on my part, but I could read it as them not wanting to publicly commit to a current relationship status because it has changed in the past and they don't want to say for sure that it won't again. Even though they probably are together and, regardless, will surely always be in each other's lives no matter what form their relationship takes.

I think this is a really interesting take, and it very well could be true.

[starwatersong]

[Templeofshame]

On another note, the possibility of Dan and Phil's relationship taking different forms over the years is a theory I personally haven't seen brought up. The manner in which he neither confirms nor denies them being together now makes me feel pretty sure that they are -

"And I bet so many people want to know so much more about that, which, honestly, I take as a compliment, but here’s the thing: I’m somebody that wants to keep the details of my personal life private. So is Phil. I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that. I want to do certain things without an audience. I want to be spontaneous. I don’t want to feel afraid to take risks. I want to enjoy totally fucking something up and not have to post a public statement about it. And if anyone thinks people really have to share these things about their life, you need to rethink your position."

- but approaching it from the angle of not wanting to have to make a declaration to the world if something changes might imply there was a time when they weren't. I guess it's still a strong possibility that they have been together the entire time and are just super cautious of the fact that no one can predict the future and literally any couple could break up, but a consistent 10 year relationship seems, to me at least, too stable of a thing to still be dedicatedly doubtful of.

Idk this is just wild speculation on my part, but I could read it as them not wanting to publicly commit to a current relationship status because it has changed in the past and they don't want to say for sure that it won't again. Even though they probably are together and, regardless, will surely always be in each other's lives no matter what form their relationship takes.

It seems pretty clear to me that

"I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that."

is talking about how other YouTubers make their relationship very public and very much a part of their branding and the entertainment they're selling, and that leads to Drama and breakup videos and all of that. While it's not impossible that their relationship status has undergone some change at some point, here Dan seems to be very specifically comparing how other YouTubers produce relationship-based content to what he and Phil want for how their relationship works with their position in the public eye.

[Kurapika]

"I tag everyone" lol Phil, lame.

I think they largely have the same friend base as far as I'm aware, maybe a couple of exceptions either way (like Louise is closer with Dan). I can definitely relate to Dan though. My fiancee and I have our own friend groups that we merge and are friends with each other's friends. When I go away anywhere without her, she's happy to do her own thing. When she goes away without me, I get really lonely and have to get someone to stay with me so I'm not by myself. I think certain people just get lonelier in their own company. I can see Dan being that way with his mental health struggles and being a bit of an over-thinker.

Omg, that's me and my girlfriend. We don't live together yet, but she has a house while I live with my parents (until I finish college), and if it were up to her, we'd sleep together everyday. But I like sleeping alone! I like my alone time! She also has a hard time understanding how I am genuinely happy to be by myself and do things alone, while she says she hates doing things alone, it brings her sadness! It's hard finding balance sometimes, specially as she is a much more emotion person while I'm more of a reason person.

I saw myself as asexual for a while in my life. Now I have a girlfriend and consider myself bisexual. What I learned with my experiences and researching about the topic, is that sexual orientation has to do with whom you're attracted to (same sex as you, opposite sex as you, or both same and opposite). When it comes to the intensity and/or frequency of that said attraction, it's harder to say what it is exactly. There are almost no studies showing what would be the norm of how much sexual attraction would be considered "normal", so we can draw the line of what is or isn't asexuality.
I've seen ace people who say they're repulsed by sex, others that say they like it but don't feel the need to do it, others that say they feel the need to do it but don't feel sexual attracted to the person they have sex with....It's a different experience to everyone. Where do we go from here? Give a name for every alteration of how people experience it? I don't know.
I, for example, feel much less sexual attraction than what I believe is considered normal. But I have my moments of wanting as well. And the only person I ever actually felt sexually attracted to is my girlfriend. Would that make me demi, by definition? Some would say so. I'd rather just say I'm bisexual though, and the details about how much or how often I wanna have sex can be shared between me and the person I'm involved.
Again, this is my experience.

[Birdie]

I'm late af but:

I mean I still have those ace moments every now and then... Like in the beginning of Dan's video where he talks about sex and says "Are we gonna fuck? Or like, could we?" and my ace brain just goes "Are allos really walking around thinking about that all the time? Sounds fake but okay".

Lol, same. I sometimes remember that other people actually want to and do have sex and I'm like: I used to think romance films just exaggerated everything as well. Then again I also thought it was normal that I couldn't stop thinking about how pretty that one girl in my class was when I was 14.

I repressed my sexuality for ages but I do remember that I read a children's book with a lesbian character in it when I was about eleven and thought: Shit, that's me. I was afraid of being gay (thanks, world) and literally decided I would just pretend I was straight which I did until I had convinced myself of it. Things got better for me in my last year of school when I fell in with the queer clique I met in art club (Isn't that the biggest cliche, but it's true, lol) and since then it's slowly been getting better.

Real talk... does anyone else here who identifies under the LGBT+ umbrella ever get sudden feelings of realisation? Almost a "gay panic"? For example, I'm sometimes going about my life with my fiancee, and a wave of "wait... I'm a lesbian" washes over me. Like, I know I'm gay because I am one of those gays that never shuts up about it. But sometimes you live your life normally without really thinking about it, and it hits you in an "I am not the norm" sort of way.

I have that a lot when I'm with straight people. My best friend doesn't know I'm gay and this happens everytime she mentions my fictional future husband.

[itasca00]

It was around 80% female last year
https://danandphilsurvey.tumblr.com/pos ... ions-about
Maybe it's because they aren't the typical youtube lads, that they seem to have more of a female (or queer male?) following?
Love stats, I forgot about the phandom survey, must study it intently

Oh my gosh, only 3.9% of cis males? I would be in that group. I have always been attracted to female favorites, but many others gays apparently are not. That's a shame really. I trust women and non-binary people more when it comes to taste in men.

Actually, the plot referenced in noodlebum's post includes all men, not just cis men. I did the analysis, and it turns out that only 0.62% of last year's survey participants identify as cis men.


This striking result made me wonder if there were differences among survey participants in experiences of sexuality and romantic attraction based on gender identity, so I did that analysis too.

[alittledizzy]

We've given our resources page a refresh - so if you see any good phandom resources that are still currently updating that we're missing from the list, please let me know!

[eevee]

This striking result made me wonder if there were differences among survey participants in experiences of sexuality and romantic attraction based on gender identity, so I did that analysis too.

I'm genuinely confused how could multiple options apply? can someone explain this to me? i'm bisexual and i feel like bi and pan are more or less the same thing, and both of those are pretty all-inclusive, and "fluid" is even in there - how could multiple options apply to you if bi and pan and fluid are all already options?? Not trying to be offensive I just genuinely don't understand and I want to understand.

[jesp]

We've given our resources page a refresh - so if you see any good phandom resources that are still currently updating that we're missing from the list, please let me know!

And as a general call for help, if anyone has an idea for an FAQ page and would like to put one together in the same style as existing pages, please do send one of the mods a message! We'd really appreciate it.

There's also the FAQ discussion thread for questions, comments, and general FAQ discussion.

[greenergrass]

This striking result made me wonder if there were differences among survey participants in experiences of sexuality and romantic attraction based on gender identity, so I did that analysis too.

I'm genuinely confused how could multiple options apply? can someone explain this to me? i'm bisexual and i feel like bi and pan are more or less the same thing, and both of those are pretty all-inclusive, and "fluid" is even in there - how could multiple options apply to you if bi and pan and fluid are all already options?? Not trying to be offensive I just genuinely don't understand and I want to understand.

Short answer - because labels are just labels and they can mean whatever a person wants them to mean basically, and none of them are limiting since they can have multiple definitions. It's just a label

An example of having multiple "labels" - someone could be on the ace spectrum and (for example) only feel sexual attraction when they also really know and care about a person, but they could also id as a lesbian because when they do feel sexual attraction it's only for girls (assuming we're talking about a female here)

There's a milion variations of this kind of example though