Dan & Phil Part 91: A Decade of Deppy

[parallel]

I wish I could wholeheartedly believe you people when you say that they're working on something (involving Dan, whether solo or joint) behind the scenes, but I really doubt it. I guess I don't want to get my hopes up.

If it's merch... I dunno what I'd do. I would be very disappointed in Dan, that's for sure.

He's only uploaded once this year and that was four months ago. He's practically been on radio silence on social media for the past few weeks aside from yesterday and his Twitter likes. I feel there should be a maximum merch:content ratio. Obviously, people can do what they want and release as much merch/as little content as they like, but I'm not obligated to support them especially if they release merch without accompanying content.

I wish I could believe that Dan appreciates his audience, but if he releases merch now, it really does seem like he's using us for money.

Phil merch, on the other hand, is fine by me. He's making regular (and enjoyable) content. I have no problem with him releasing some merch, though I doubt I'd buy it.

[Tottrie]

If Dan wants to be a fashion designer, let him be a fashion designer.

That's my thinking and I will let him do his thing.

[alittledizzy]

I think that the merch having appeal that isn't just his name/face makes a difference to me. I do think there's art in designing things like Dan and Phil have been putting out recently, and I actually wish we could get some 'content' in the form of seeing the process. That'd make such a cool behind the scenes video since they have ultimate control from start to finish since they own IRL.

That said, yeah, I would like if Dan did something before he put more merch out - less because it bothers me and more because I don't want to have to deal with fandom going through the backlash cycle. (Though, in the past, people were upset when Dan did a video then immediately put a merch drop out because they were upset that the content was just for merch, so... I dunno if it's really avoidable unless Dan somehow went back to making a video a month and only putting merch out 2-3 times a year, which we all can agree won't happen, right?)

[liola]

I think the issue for me here is that, for example, I don't "care" about Dan posting a video before releasing merch. I'd be fine with BIG being the only thing he posts in 2019, and I kinda think that's what's going to happen. I believe when he says he say no idea what he's doing next. But when he barely interacts with his audience/his potential customers, and only drops a not-really-relatable tweet and an instagram pic right before a merch release - that's bad business behaviour. You're actually ignoring your target audience - unless, of course, his target audience has shifted and he's mysteriously targeting them which... isn't happening. Unless it's all a secret audience and then it would have no business being linked to his entertainer brand.

So yeah if he like, interacted with the audience a bit more I would still be yay team merch you do you Dan, pay your employees salaries! But right now i'm more like eh :/ Bad business behaviour, that's all i'm saying, it has nothing to do with videos for me.

[Megancita75]

That said, yeah, I would like if Dan did something before he put more merch out - less because it bothers me and more because I don't want to have to deal with fandom going through the backlash cycle.

Yeah, on further thought, it's really the fandom reaction that stresses me out and less the fact of him putting out merch. I imagine if I were just a casual fan and saw he put out merch I'd be like "cool" instead of having all these deep thoughts about what it means or doesn't mean and worries about how people are gonna feel about it.

Now, if Phil were to put out some Fallopian Vibes, Ovarian energy shirts, I would be down for that.

[noodlebum]

Yeah I think it's the lack of audience interaction that aggravates me the most. That alongside merch which he's worked hard on, helps IRL employees etc., sure. But there's no connection anymore.
Phil on the other hand is doing so well and hopefully enjoying his level of interaction (I wouldn't mind if he cut down the amount of liveshows if he was feeling pressure, for example) but yeah, Phil has a great balance this year I think.

[Neons]

Dan's last merch drop in particular felt very opportunisticly geared towards his teenage fans, and I'll be honest I don't see anything especially creative about writing stereotypical "lol depressive" phrases on some black pencils that are conveniently for sale just as the new school year rolls around, and play right into your branding.

But I get it's a business, so certain money-making behaviours are to be expected. As others have said though, at least try not to give the impression you only care about your fans when you can make money off 'em.

[knq]

While we're all airing out what we do and don't find acceptable about Dan and Phil's business practices: I wish they'd continued to produce their merch using the foundation that claims their stuff is "ethically made and working conditions are continually being improved in factories they are produced."

They own their own company. They have so much more power over how their products are made and what chains of supply they use than most people would. And the fact that they don't choose to try to ensure their products are ethically made the majority of the time is something I still don't know how to process.

[Judearaya]

I mean I guess that depends on the money. Pricing out how much it costs to produce things through various chains of supply vs what is a realistic price point for their target audience, factoring in the money that has to go to promoting, sales, employees etc. Wherever the bulk of their sales demographic comes from, I am guessing they have to take that into consideration, because otherwise they risk pricing out of that demographic and making fewer sales and ending up in the red (or more in the red, since so many small businesses opperate in the red to an extent).

I'm so new to fandom, my relationship with merch has always kind of come from their joking #spon attitude in videos. Dan stresses so much like, it's okay if you're not into it, merch isn't important etc. that it always felt to me like, hey if you like this, awesome, no pressure, it's a thing I like producing too? (IDK if that makes sense, my brain is a little scrambled today).

Total aside, I had a dream lasts night that Dan tweeted "Sorry for the random tumblr queue, I hope you enjoyed, I have to go dust my cobwebs now" (as in...not dusting them away, dusting the actual cobwebs -- how I knew this distinction existed in my dream IDK).

I've had like 4 prophetic dreams in my life (LOL), so maybe let's all just hope that this was a weird prophetic reference to Halloween decor. Or my psyche trying to understand his tumblr behavior, which is more likely but less fun.

[alittledizzy]

And my favorite reply so far:

#justice4furries

[wiccamoody]

So glad Dan decided to go there with a furry reply. How on brand.

This reply has my eyes Wide Open, though. I'm curious if this is him being cryptic or if it's just a regular old reply.

[liola]

Yeah I guess it's a good chance of pre-merch drop tweet

[yellowsubmarine]

Dan should get himself a PR Team, with actual business experience. Just being 100%, his business career moves are at best questionable sometimes.
Maybe it will take the pressure off his shoulders a bit and help him focus on what he wants to do next.

[knq]

Black fox? I thought he was a slothbear.

That reminds me that it's been close to a year since Phil fainted and went to hospital. (Dan tweeted about it when he still had his Halloween furry layout). I hope he's been feeling well and taking care of himself.

[wiccamoody]

I would love to see Dan and Olly interact more together. I've loved seeing it all so far, and maybe I'm greedy, but I just like it a lot and would like more. And plus it's nice to see him engage and work with peers that he admires.

However, I would also like to say that I cannot stand him in the most loving way possible. Dan is so Loud.

[Megancita75]

Dammit, I love Dan's brain. Also, Olly's video was so interesting to me from a craft perspective. He has such a way of striking this really fun and brave and smart tone all at once, and this is the first coming out video I've watched (I haven't watched a ton) from a bi person who also talked about dating trans people. I found it really educational and just straight up funny.

Edited to add: I take Dan's tweet to be a reference back to the whole "language game" idea in Olly's video, but would be interested in other interpretations.

[stufflizloves]

sigh.

i agree with the merch discussion (tho i do tend to fall closer to the “let him live his fashion design dreams/what the market will bear” side of things.)

mostly i just feel disconnected from dan & i’m bummed about that. he’s such a passionate guy, so it’s hard to see two generic/on brand/relatable-but-keeping-fans-at-arms-length type tweets a month. what are you UP TO, dan? what movies have you loved? hated? what pretentious band are you weeping over lately? what anime do you think truly slaps? are you cooking vegan after spending time with your lil bro? give us SOMETHING other than generic, ya know? it’s the disconnect that’s tough for me.

[Birdie]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm having trouble phrasing what I mean right now, but I'm getting a bit tired of Dan's comments like the one under Olly's tweet. On one hand more power to him because he's expressing his queer identity freely and that's so important. But on the other hand it feels so generic and kind of meaningless to get these vaguely sexual jokes from him all the time and then he disappears again into the void.

I know Dan never really wanted to be "that queer role model" and he absolutely doesn't have to be. And yet. I kind of expected "more" from him after BIG, like, a more serious attempt to what he, as a queer creator on Youtube, can do. Like, there's obviously nothing wrong with his jokes or his absence if that's how he wants to do stuff from now on. And it's amazing that he's now in a place where he can actually express his queerness so freely. But it all still feels kind of performative (maybe?) to me and that's not necessarily a bad thing and maybe I'm just cranky but whatever.

Idk, Dan is doing fine and is probably living his best life right now and there's nothing wrong with how he does things at the moment. This is all on me because I expected more and I seriously think he could do a lot more but if he doesn't want to that's what it is. I'm just kinda tired of seeing him come back with a joke every two weeks and then vanish again.

[Amiaw]

Cornelia deleted her story about the merch shoot. They probably saw the general reception to new merch

[liola]

It's baffling to me how they still haven't gotten someone that has any knowledge of PR. Deleting the insta story just makes it the more noticeable tbh

[Catallena]

CAUTION: I had three rough fucking days so I might be more easily irritated and even pettier than usual. But whenever I think I can take Dan's bullshit he surprises me yet again.

I'm already really not about the Merch Is Content Too mindset because most of us wouldn't call products by any other company 'content' and I really do feel like people are just saying stuff like that just because it's Dan and we like him. But also... fashion designer? Dan mostly hires people to make those designs doesn't he? He treated us to an Instastory of it shortly after the last merch drop. He's mostly just selling. Like how any other influencer does. And right now an influencer is just about all Dan is, just not a particularly good one considering we're right back where we were before BIG as far as audience interaction goes.

And then there is the Halloween layout tweet, which I guess is where me being petty starts. At first glance it's a typical Dan tweet, but boy does that hit differently when audience interaction has been this poor for so long. If he had just put on a Halloween layout and tweeted that, I'd be fine with that tweet. That'd be making an effort to connect with us by making a joke that makes fun of himself and us. Now it has a really nasty aftertaste and it only got a deep sigh out of me. Go be the fun police somewhere else Howell.

[alittledizzy]

Look at that sweet, sweet joint content!

[Phanshy]

I guess they're out with Bryony because she's wearing that purple hoodie in her insta story.

[Amiaw]

Warning: negativity
I agree that Dan’s tweet didn’t land well. It probably was a throw away tweet to seem edgy but after this year it just felt like he was looking down on one of the traditions the phandom loves and they up to last year he loved too. I don’t know what he’s doing and he probably doesn’t either but just because spooky week and pinof and all of the fun phandom things are over doesn’t mean the audience doesn’t still care.

[parallel]

Ugh. It's a merch drop.