Dan & Phil Part 92: japhan 2.0

[flarequake]

drier than a camel’s armpit, oh that’s good. I know, that was my second thought too, but still I sent a tweet/three to explain cos it plays on my mind otherwise and I have hope. Bloody hell, though. This one has really got people not just realising ‘oh, that’s it’ for joint content, but feeling sad enough to dip out cos their seeming not to care is horrible (that might not be the only reason, but I’m seeing it enough).

I volunteer to be employed to babysit their communication skills, not that I’m trained in any of this, but dammit.

Edit - wow, I’m up here again

[Becky.rigby]

I mean... forget joint content or a return to his channel, Dan can’t even go on YouNow for 45min and talk about music, politics, the weather or whatever and at least be a spokesperson for his own damn updates. It boggles the mind how much for granted he takes this audience. And no doubt (like with the brief reprieve for the Japhan content) eventually he’ll pop up and announce that he’s been pouring his life and soul into some project and hasn’t had a spare minute in over a year, blah blah... and all will be forgiven as we applaud and line up again for merch.

I agree with this, it's weird to me that phil was the one to continue liveshows as it always seemed to me like it was something Dan preferred to do, and that phil only did them because Dan did. I wish i was a fly on the wall in the deppy house and could listen to their conversations about youtube/work and pass the information on to everyone for them :') (in a non stalkery way).

[blahblahblah8]

I missed joint content a lot early this year but I don't really miss it anymore. I like Phil's content and I'm happy to support him. I'm not mad him bec he hasn't mentioned the mukbang at all this year so while I would've liked it, I wasn't expecting it. Of course, everyone who is mad has the right to be. But I don't expect him to do all the communicating on joint content. I think he's communicated what he knows, I feel like it's up in the air for him too. As for Dan, I have no interest. I like YouTube and live shows because they are free and accessible content that don't take up too much of my time. I wanna enjoy stuff that makes me happy bec I want my free time to be an escape from everything stressing me out. Phil's content does that for me. I'm not interested in secret projects, especially after being ignored besides for one video a year and a whole bunch of merch.

On a happy note, Phil singing Santa baby and making fun of the nohomo version was really cute and hilarious.

[rizzo]

I have a really negative thought that I hesitate to put out there, but I'm gonna just to get it out and then move on. That thought is this: Pretty convenient to finally say "no mukbangs" when the last round of merch has been released and the major sale period is over.

*youtuber exhale*

Now that's out of my system, I'll turn this around a little bit. They never promised us a mukbang... in last year's liveshow, Phil said "maybe" ahead of that thought. And yeah, many have said it, but a lot of us knew this to be true already. Confirmation just sucks because.... we have no hope to cling on to. There's not a single comment made by them at this point that could offer hope for joint content and it's rough.

But... idk. I think realistically, they're scared. They hate this backlash. And they're gonna get it no matter when they announce things, so better to let them happen in this unfortunate fashion, 'cause it'll all be shit anyway. It's very human of them.

I don't know what their strategy here is. If it's to move on by doing exclusively their own individual things..... I hope they know that won't work. Like..... Look, I I get it. I understand the want to grow their own ways career-wise, but there's gotta be a transition period. It can't be a hard stop. You can't just be like "OK, no more joint content. Now: ONLY THIS." Weave it in! Throw in some videos together while also giving us that individual content. And if you wanna phase it out... be my guest. But not like this... This sucks.

I think where I land in all of this is that they're human and they're dealing with this in a human way, which is: a lot of shitty choices that work out for them and not so much for us. You see it everywhere, right? Politics. Entertainment. The slice of cake you pick when given a choice at a birthday party. And the response to that is usually something like, "But they'll LOSE THEIR AUDIENCE this way. They'll LOSE money." But they aren't, are they? So, like....

[Phanshy]

I'm kinda done with Dan to be honest, if he doesn't want to be a youtuber or influencer anymore fine just say so ( I know the wall of silence should make it obvious but we still have a tiny little bit of hope inside us that needs killing for all our sakes.) For a while before the "hiatus" I kinda felt like Dan thought he was to good for the gaming channel and definitely to good for joint videos on Phil's channel, some of the snarky comments came off a little to real compared to how they use to. I'm glad he's done with merch for the foreseeable future because I couldn't stomach anymore from him.

I feel bad for Phil even though he's just as responsible as Dan for the terrible communication especially after the comments about the gaming channels future at Vidcon, he's left having to face the questions in the live shows he's basically had to structure the whole live show to avoid answering the constant questions about how Dan is, where's Dan, get Dan, Mukbang with Dan. It must be disheartening to him.

I get Dan wants to be more private, certainty in regards to the relationship with Phil but I never expected it to include them never being in a video together or barely being photographed together and if they're having to have people or distance between them.

I'm not even excited about Dan's new project, I only want to know out of curiosity. I still really enjoy Phil's content and will still support him but my first love was always joint content, I hate that there's still a tiny part of me thinking it might return in some form or another which is dumb on my part.

[glitterintheair]

In retrospect I don’t even know why I was convinced that we would get joint vids again when we can’t even see them in a selfie together , for example. With this thought I am gonna sleep because I have to be up in 5 hrs. Thanks dnp for depriving me of sleep other than serotonin I guess.

[bluecaterpillar]

dan and phil are liars and also shit at communication we been knew

i'm glad i already had no expectations for joint content. i would be astonished if the gaming channel ever came back, even as 'something else'. who even knows what 2020 will bring. at this point i can't imagine dan returning to youtube but i also have no clue what his mysterious project is. i'm pretty much just the shrug emoji, enjoying whatever stuff we get on social media and not expecting anything more because emotionally i just can't be bothered getting my hopes up. it'll happen when it happens, and until then i'll just rewatch old stuff like the donkey kong gaming videos that i hadn't seen since they were first uploaded. i've been on a bit of a nostalgia trip for older (2010-15ish) youtube in general for like a month now anyway, so it's been easier to ignore the lack of stuff going on in the present.

however, for dnp's sake i hope they change things up a bit in the new year. they're lucky to have such a patient and dedicated fanbase even when they don't do much (or anything, in dan's case) to maintain it, but even the phandom's patience must have a limit somewhere

[flarequake]

I think that limit’s getting found, I’ve seen enough people on Twitter re-evaluating their emotional investment. Enough left before the coming out videos, though many also returned. Shedding more through hurt feelings isn’t great either.

[knq]

I sense that I do not want to watch today's liveshow.

Did Phil say there would be liveshows after Christmas? His notification said it was his last liveshow of the year.

[Amiaw]

Honestly other than the mukbang mention the liveshow wasn’t bad. Phil said he’s filming a video tomorrow that’s festive and something he’s never done before and then he said this was the last liveshow of this year but that’s about it.

[madzilla84]

They got sort of lost in the discussions but what in the world were Phil’s plants-with-hats-on insta stories about? lol

[Phanshy]

I sense that I do not want to watch today's liveshow.

Did Phil say there would be liveshows after Christmas? His notification said it was his last liveshow of the year.

Yes he did but he didn't specify when though, my guess last week in January/first week of February.

[alittledizzy]

They got sort of lost in the discussions but what in the world were Phil’s plants-with-hats-on insta stories about? lol

I really want to hope it was Phil being self-aware about the Phil HOUSEPLANTS??!!? meme and utilizing it at what he felt was a very appropriate time.

[dellamay]

I haven't written anything here in an age -- but I thought I'd jump in and be a little philosophical about the mukbang idea. I loved last year's mukbang and how intimate it was, but I really noticed how frayed they were in that video, with Dan sniping at Phil in a way that seems painfully familiar to an old married lady like me. They overworked themselves and it was hurting their relationship a wee bit. This impression jibes with Phil's take on the mukbang in "Draw My Life 2" -- that they were actual zombies when they filmed it, after the tour and the DVD editing and all the gaming content. It probably doesn't seem like a happy video from their perspective and I see why they wouldn't want to make it a tradition.

I've come to realize that what interests me most about Dan and Phil is the story of their actual relationship and the synergy they got out of that to do all this creative stuff. Even though I've hated the joint content drought as much as anyone, I feel weirdly hopeful that they are doing what is necessary to protect their very special real-life relationship from being crushed by expectations surrounding the "Dan and Phil" empire. I would imagine Dan needs more space than Phil to grow, as he was so young when all this started. He's so conscientious and takes his public role so seriously -- I actually feel excited to see him set off in a totally new direction looking for a slightly new fan base. And meanwhile it's been so life-affirming to be allowed to see them both taking a deep breath in their personal lives. Two bros chilling in romantic locales together (Joshua Tree! Kyoto!), and letting us in enough to feel that we are part of the celebration.

[madzilla84]

From what I’ve been reading, it seems to be that the strength of the reaction wasn’t the mukbang (or lack thereof) in and of itself - personally I was ambivalent, there’s a bunch of stuff I’d rather see them do together than that, in particular new things - but the fact it was sort of the ‘last hope’ for some sort of joint content coming, and now that’s not happening it’s sort of drawn a line under that whole era, which seems to be a final straw for a lot of people (and the source of much of the sadness. Endings are sad!!)

I don’t know how I feel about Dan potentially looking for a new fan base as a member of the old one, lol. But whether that’s what he’s doing remains to be seen.

But I think the main sentiment I’ve seen is that people are actually very supportive of them taking this time and figuring stuff out and trying new things TM - if they’d just communicate a little better. But I don’t think that’s very likely to happen, which, fine if that’s what they’re happiest doing, but they can’t be surprised when people’s patience starts to run out. (I’m sure they’re not fussed, anyway.)

[Susanisnotafish]

It’s just nice that we’re all in this together. I feel so validated by posting and reading here. I hope IDB survives even if many people bail on deps. Interestingly, I checked in on an old pre-deppy fandom and found a bunch of new content, so maybe a couple years from now, Dan and Phil content will be back.

[wiccamoody]

It’s just nice that we’re all in this together. I feel so validated by posting and reading here. I hope IDB survives even if many people bail on deps. Interestingly, I checked in on an old pre-deppy fandom and found a bunch of new content, so maybe a couple years from now, Dan and Phil content will be back.

I hope IDB survives and I hope the phandom itself survives. This fandom is unique to others in the way it treats its creators, and I hope that in the continuation of the "joint content drought" the phandom continues to create and that it treats the creators kindly so it continues to live on. That's my hope and something I'd really like. Not that I want to personally sound all be-all-end-all, but I hope in that, fanworks will continue to be made and the rest of the phandom will be kind and encouraging about it.

[autumnhearth]

Then in Phil's DML we were led to believe that their seperation was mostly about big joint projects, but that they would still make the occasional video together while working on their own things. At the time that gave me peace, but I'm obviously not very optimistic anymore since we really only had Dan's voice behind the camera.

Unfortunately Phil’s illustration for that part of the vid was Dan behind the camera with Phil in the cheese costume from Viewers Choose My Outfits and that’s exactly what we’ve got.

I didn’t watch the liveshow and only just now caught the reaction. I’m bummed about no muckbangs for sure, but I had already come to terms with the possibility that they didn’t want to do that as Dan was uncomfortable eating on camera, doesn’t like to talk and eat and apparently thinks that tables at restaurants should just have one chair so that no one can look at you while you eat, except of course for the romantic date table (from the anime food spon vid on the tour bus). Sorry that still amuses me.

It all sucks and I’m sorry for everyone who was crushed today. I just can’t let myself be upset about it right now. I am looking forward to a festive Phil video, I was hoping Wish wouldn’t be the last of the year. I doubt they are going to The Star Wars premier, but hopefully people will share their personal Christmas messages and maybe Cornelia will throw us a bone in an IG story from IoM.

I second that moody. Take care folks.

[alittledizzy]

My lukewarm take: phandom isn't going to die because there are plenty of people that are invested in Dan and Phil as individual people, and as a couple. And they haven't ceased to be people, and they haven't ceased to be a couple. In fact, that is is still going strong and in my opinion gets a nice amount of content still. Japan instagram deluge was less than a month ago, we've had Dan behind the scenes in multiple videos in the past couple months, in general with the confirmation of their relationship for the whole world to see less than six months ago.

I know, I fully know that a lot of people want joint content in the form of videos 10-20 minutes in length uploaded on a regular basis and will lose interest without those - and that's understandable to me. The people that want that and are hurt/disappointed/angry over not getting it absolutely have every right to be hurt/disappointed/angry. They're losing something they love. But phandom doesn't end because people who were here for one thing stop getting the thing. The overall makeup of the audience watching may change, but that always happens. There were people that left fandom when they announced the first book because they didn't want to support sellouts, people that left fandom when the radio show was over because it was their fave content, people that left fandom when tours started because they didn't want to follow entertainers who weren't coming near them and were doing mainly tour promo content, people that left fandom when the gaming channel was put on hiatus... it's a constant ebb and flow, sometimes more ebb heavy and sometimes more flow heavy. That's just the cycle of all entertainment properties. Everything shifts, everything changes. Especially when your fandom is based around two living breathing people who are never going to keep their life in stasis for the sake of fans.

So there will be people who are upset and this is their final straw. And if they really don't do joint content ever again there will be people who are interested to keep following Dan and Phil in this new era as a couple first and entertainers second, and apart. I don't think Dan wants a new audience; I think he probably hopes damn well that this current audience cares enough to see what he does next. But if they don't, I think he's at peace with that. I think Phil is, too.

But I will throw in a take I left in the microwave slightly longer: Phandom also isn't small, inactive, or dying no matter what this gut reaction from people may lead you to believe. Fandom would be dying if Phil said what he said today and no one cared anymore. Anger isn't a poison to a fandom, apathy is. And people are absolutely not apathetic about this.

[rachelthepiratequeen]

Ah look, another hot take about the mukbang.

I think it still all comes back to Dan. I think Phil would have been willing to do another one, because he's always been up for doing something again, sometimes more than is needed. So I think he was just taking the fall for Dan, who clearly isn't ready.

Because Dan...Dan may have secret projects up his sleeve but he's still clearly figuring things out. Last December he was like "yeah, I didn't post this year because I'm figuring stuff out about myself, but I'm not going anywhere," and then essentially completely disappeared. And then in June he was like, "yep, this is what I was working on, so I'm slowly coming back to the Internet" but then nothing came after. And then in October, "oh, I had a project that I was meant to release but it's not ready yet" and here we are almost two months later with no more news than that.

And I don't think he's not thinking about us, because after ten years of giving us everything, he knows what we're thinking and he knows what we want, and he definitely, definitely cares. But I think he doesn't want to say too often that "things are coming, just be patient, I'm still figuring out what I want and what I'm doing," so instead he doesn't say anything.

And honestly...I can't be mad at him about that. I totally understand if you are upset with that, and that's not to say I don't severely miss him and I want more from both of them and I was totally broken-hearted about the mukbang announcement, but I also really, really get where Dan is coming from. He can't say how long he'll be removed, and he keeps hoping that he won't need to be, but that keeps not happening, and it's too much pressure to constantly apologize and make more excuses.

So we need to trust them. We've had ten years with them, we should be able to let them have some time without us and work on things without telling us, and maybe even let us down and mess up a little bit, and they should be able to trust us to still be here for them when they come back.

Ya know. Like with IRL friends.

[stufflizloves]

i’ve been reading everyone’s takes all afternoon and good news is: there’s a huge range from *shrugs* to ANGER!!!!!! —something for everyone! if you want to find a similar reaction to your own, trust me, it’s out there! (and in some cases it’s being expressed as if it’s the only valid reaction, whether positive or negative) i agree with everyone here who’s mentioned that your feelings are valid regardless. i really, really think that’s important (as is stepping away if all of the emotions are weighing down your happy place/escape.)

i miss them on youtube together. i just do. i’ve been watching old spookyweeks & gamingmas playlists and feeling a little sad that there isn’t fresh content in those categories that i love so so so much.

but...i think about how absolutely glowingly happy they both looked together in japan. and i can’t be mad that they want to keep some of that. it’s hard for me to believe dan is giving up the spotlight forever. he shines in front of an audience. my gut tells me that something good is coming but damn if that isn’t hard to prove. feeling for everyone that’s frustrated tho.

*back to sucking the marrow out of dusty gaming videos*

[scientia]

dan and phil are liars and also shit at communication we been knew

Sorry, what exactly was lied about? They have at times been vague and evasive but I don't see how either of them outright lied?

[Susanisnotafish]

dan and phil are liars and also shit at communication we been knew

Sorry, what exactly was lied about? They have at times been vague and evasive but I don't see how either of them outright lied?

I know this isn’t what’s being discussed, but you made me think about the following question:

Is it considered lying when you have internalized homophobia and can’t accept that you are gay, so you explicitly say you aren’t ? I’m genuinely asking.

Also is it considered lying to deny a romantic/sexual relationship or is that just having privacy boundaries?

These are the only instances I can think of that I could possibly consider as them lying, and they’re highly debatable.

I do however think they should have cut the bit out of the mukbang about it possibly becoming annual, if after filming Dan wasn’t on board (and even if he was open to it, but unsure — it would have saved a load of phandom heartache). But maybe Phil was hoping it could be a thing. Just my opinion, but I feel like Phil never minded working as a double act bc he got a lot of solo projects out of his system before Dan and even in 2010 and 2011.

[Phantasy]

dan and phil are liars and also shit at communication we been knew

Sorry, what exactly was lied about? They have at times been vague and evasive but I don't see how either of them outright lied?

I know this isn’t what’s being discussed, but you made me think about the following question:

Is it considered lying when you have internalized homophobia and can’t accept that you are gay, so you explicitly say you aren’t ? I’m genuinely asking.

Also is it considered lying to deny a romantic/sexual relationship or is that just having privacy boundaries?

These are the only instances I can think of that I could possibly consider as them lying, and they’re highly debatable.

I do however think they should have cut the bit out of the mukbang about it possibly becoming annual, if after filming Dan wasn’t on board (and even if he was open to it, but unsure — it would have saved a load of phandom heartache). But maybe Phil was hoping it could be a thing. Just my opinion, but I feel like Phil never minded working as a double act bc he got a lot of solo projects out of his system before Dan and even in 2010 and 2011.

I’m not going to dare opine on how lying may or may not have been a byproduct of their closeted (public) lives and whether or not the justification excuses it, but I will say, for all the years of secrecy and obfuscation leading up to BIG, I never imagined that a post-coming out universe would feel even more disingenuous in terms of transparency and audience interaction than anything that came before, yet that’s how I feel.

As far as the impetus for branching into solo content, it’s easy to point the finger towards Dan as the tortured artist of the duo, but I’d like to give Phil some credit that hopefully as a couple of 10 years their communication and decision making isn’t so one sided. Even if Dan was the catalyst, it’s probably a good thing for Phil and served as a helpful push to break out of old comfortable patterns into a “try new things” mentality as it were.

And to articulate another frustration, with no gamingmas or mukbang, no live shows, and knowing this is one of their traditional year end blackout periods (aside from one more AP vid) we’ll have to brood in our frustration until at least the end of January—let’s just hope after a long winter’s nap, they awake and gift us all with a little more communication and transparency for the new year.

[flarequake]

It’s hard to know if Phil’s ‘maybe’ at Vidcon about the future of the gaming channel was genuine or a vague answer to soften the eventual no (it worked for a few months until the no, anyway), and same for the ‘nothing else will change’ in last December’s liveshow. Also Phil seemed more than ‘maybe’ about the mukbang in one thing he said, but all of these might have been true at the time. We also have had them say ‘hiatus’, if I remember right, about the radio show, so now these vaguer answers that might just be softening the blow for a while rather than saying no immediately, they start to look like possible lies, but again it’s impossible to know because they haven’t explained every single thing. Until they did eg in Phil’s DML 2, but now there’s another cause for a bit more info perhaps, since at that point there was still hope for joint content.

It seems a long time since Japan already and while I hadn’t been expecting joint content anymore, I’m still a bit meh about them thanks to this, which will probably blow over, and I also understand their need for time and space, but they haven’t communicated that enough if we’re still expecting things that they haven’t been clear on. We could all move forward in clarity on the same page if they’d be clear, but apparently we can’t expect them to do that or listen to our many repeated requests.

I think we know everything we were hoping to hear about now, though maybe we’re still waiting to see if Dan really will share more with us whenever ‘soon’ happens. The trouble is, I don’t really trust what they say, cos they keep proving it was changeable and not still the truth, which would be okay if they told us of changes promptly, but again only when they can’t avoid it any longer