Dan & Phil Part 97: Arch enemies and Husbands

[flarequake]

I find the constant fault-finding and expecting apologies exhausting. Maybe it’s all legitimate and necessary, but the phandom can never stop. I can’t comment on how hurtful even old racism is, for example, as I’m white, but still we know they’ve changed. And yes, are not prone to making a thing out of addressing everything, certainly not promptly. I’ve replied to two tweets just to say don’t worry, and interestingly been ignored, I wonder if they just don’t know me or someone not freaking out isn’t interesting (/cynical). People are now trying to pull it back cos it’s gone too far, some anon suggested telling Dan’s publisher cos cancelling the book would make him apologise Honestly, all the ‘sexualising’ confused me too, where is the line for that? I’ve had crushes on both and have read fic, and enjoyed art, so idk.

Oh good, top of page with this. Anyway, forgot to say excited for Martyn on the podcast thingy and I still need to watch all of Seth’s and PJ’s. I’ve dropped off rather, haven’t been here much, but popping in some. Excited for all these babies too. Corona-boom, huh.

[alittledizzy]

Active Dan alert?

And if anyone was worried Dan wouldn't be in the viewer's pick my outfits video, this seems like final confirmation that he definitely will be (I mean, probably behind the camera, but I'll take it.)

[Amiaw]

I find the constant fault-finding and expecting apologies exhausting. Maybe it’s all legitimate and necessary, but the phandom can never stop. I can’t comment on how hurtful even old racism is, for example, as I’m white, but still we know they’ve changed. And yes, are not prone to making a thing out of addressing everything, certainly not promptly. I’ve replied to two tweets just to say don’t worry, and interestingly been ignored, I wonder if they just don’t know me or someone not freaking out isn’t interesting (/cynical). People are now trying to pull it back cos it’s gone too far, some anon suggested telling Dan’s publisher cos cancelling the book would make him apologise Honestly, all the ‘sexualising’ confused me too, where is the line for that? I’ve had crushes on both and have read fic, and enjoyed art, so idk.

Oh good, top of page with this. Anyway, forgot to say excited for Martyn on the podcast thingy and I still need to watch all of Seth’s and PJ’s. I’ve dropped off rather, haven’t been here much, but popping in some. Excited for all these babies too. Corona-boom, huh.

I am a part of the group of people they’ve made comments about but controversial take: I don’t care at all personally. If people are hurt I feel for them but I have to wonder what the point of this is. The whole reason for acknowledging bad behavior is so that someone changes and they’ve grown and are both trying to do good things. Obviously I can’t speak for others but part of being empathetic is realizing that people change and not bringing their past up. Honestly I’ve found the best thing to do is just mute and block people and move on.

Switching gears I wonder when the video will go up. If Phil’s doing stereo tomorrow will he save the video for Christmas?

[alittledizzy]

Okay, attempt two, because the first one had the wrong audio.

[hello9217]

Looks like we are getting vpmo2 tonight!

[LAshleigh]

Yeah, finally ran into the twitter drama when looking at Dan's tweet and it's overwhelming. Not defending dnp's offensive jokes, but 95% of people I knew in 2010 were making those same problematic jokes and have never had to apologize because their actions aren't chronicled for the world to dig up. In no world can I envision dnp making those same jokes now, because 1) they are no longer stupid teenagers/young adults and 2) the resources exist now for them to know that sort of thing is not okay. By all means, call them out for problematic behavior, and if they made those jokes now I'd be fuming, but if it's years old and they've obviously changed, what's the point?

Very excited for the video!!

[blahblahblah8]

I watched the stereo with PJ and really enjoyed it! I feel like it was the most relaxed and natural so far. I’m looking forward to the one with Martyn! Also I can’t help but side eye Dan for choosing to reply to a direct question about the gaming channel and not answering it at all. Lol I don’t expect him to say anything about the gaming channel at this point but I feel like he could’ve responded to a diff tweet to hint about being in Phil’s video.

[plinthofmylife]

I am personally exhausted by the twitter drama, I feel like Dan did address that in the "why I deleted some old videos" bit. I just don't have a desire to go through this in the fandom. They need to apologize for the harm they've done.... to people that are digging up 12 year old tweets?

Anyway, I am 100% excited about the video. Especially with confirmation that dan will appear in (probably off camera) form because while I have been impressed at what Phil has managed to do entirely by himself, I will be deeply disappointed in a fashion review video without our resident monochrome striped ghost soulmate to commentate.

[Catallena]

Did more thinking about the issue since it refuses to leave my bubble.

I respect the people who really didn't know about those problematic jokes until now (they've been living under a rock if they've been stans for longer than 2 years... but whatever it's fine) for feeling hurt and wanting an apology. I don't particularly see the point because to me an apology is worth nothing and only a promise to do better, and we're already pretty much at that point. They are doing better. Even so, if people want an apology and that helps them I hope for them they get it somehow.

Two types of people annoy me rn though:

People on Twitter rn who definitely knew about past tweets and videos but are now ~conflicted about supporting Dan and Phil. That's weird and it makes me side eye. What changed between when you pre-ordered Dan's book and now? Hm? Is it that you're less into the phandom than you used to be so now it's easier to be tough on DnP because they ain't your main faves anymore?

And people who freak when their campaign gets the attention of someone outside the phandom (Ben). Wouldn't that be good thing, for more people to pressure DnP into acknowledging these things? Or does that acknowledgment only count when they and their friends can take credit for it? Feels icky and also it's just dumb to yell about people reading something you put out in public. Internet 101.

Again, I'm super cynical because of kpop fans and their little my-fave-is-more-unproblematic-than-yours fanwars, I can hope people do mean well and are serious about this and don't have ulterior motives.

Oh and people on the other side freaking that Dan's book could get cancelled gotta chill. Dan is still popular and above all a white cis male. Him and his book are gonna be fine.

Anyway, I'm excited for VPMO2

(which i don't really think is damage control because a few days before christmas is a pretty normal time for phil to upload anyway especially when he's also still doing stereo but i get how people could see it that way)

[starsandshards]

this is why i will never fully integrate with the fandom. this is so gross.

[liola]

Honestly I've been debating this for a couple of days and I've shared my opinion privately to people but I'm a bit.. amused by the reaction. On one hand there's people screaming for an apology as if that would be the holy grail that would cancel the problematic things that have been said without acknowledging the growth that happened in the meantime, on the other there's the blindly defending dnp because it's been years and like... there's shades in the middle.

I think their approach of never addressing things and just ignoring controversial topics is absolutely the wrong choice and I don't respect it, on the other it makes me kinda laugh how many people are saying that what they did is enough when this is the phandom who got so (rightly) offended when they hung out with pewdiepie and to this day wouldn't forgive it even after pdp made statements and apologies against his behaviour. To be clear I Don't care about pdp, don't watch him and never have, I'm just talking about a situation that albeit more complicated is somewhat linked to dnp.

In the end, I think an address of the past behaviour could be enough, because I don't think Dan talking about his deleted videos in a livestream to just a handful of dedicated fans can really be considered addressing the issue. Nevermind Phil, who I adore with all my heart but has never addressed a controversial thing in his own life on youtube.

Is this blown up out of proportion? Honestly I don't know. Poc fans have been lamenting stuff for years, and maybe this is just an exaggeration or maybe this is silencing, personally I'm not a group that is affected by it thus I can't say for sure and I prefer to just take a step back.

They're humans and they fuck up and they can and have been problematic. There's worse around for sure, and they've done some good, that's why I stick around still.


Anyway - Phil video PLEASE. is it confirmed tonight?

[gnostic]

This video BLESSED me above all else in the world

Phil is BEAUTIFUL and amazing and hilarious and awesome

Dan fully getting into the styling with wife-in-the-shop vibes and then his hysterical wheezing

Idk guys life is just a lil bit more worth living to me right now

[plinthofmylife]

That was amazing, I love it. Also real acknowledgment that Dan is always there was really validating.

[liola]

Holy shit there were so many good outfits this time around that I feel so blessed. The motor jacket? The blue suit jacket? The tweed moment? Yes yes yes Phil check yourself out you looked so hot.

The maid outfit was just an excuse for Dan to live their kinks in front of us and I respect it. Also his hyena laughs were thoroughly missed.

10+ video here

[shan]

I loved the video so much, it was everything I needed right now. Light-hearted and funny, I actually did a little scream-cackle when he came out as a maid.

My heart is happy from 17 minutes of DnP bants (including gay jokes!), even if Dan isn't the 5th guest on PnP I'm still satisfied with the most interaction in almost two years.

[Tornbetweenfandoms]

That video was everything I needed it to be.
"Fighting bears..."

[rizzo]

I'm.... speechless. Why did that reinvigorate me SO MUCH?

Does anyone else get the sense that Phil is like... a little different in this? Like - a little more open? There's growth?

I am FILLED with emotion.

Also - when he got down on the ground in the dress? It'll take me a few years to get over that.

[elipie]

This video made my day SO much better!! I needed this so much right now.

[LAshleigh]

Does anyone else get the sense that Phil is like... a little different in this? Like - a little more open? There's growth?

YES I was thinking this exact thing.

Brb everyone, gonna watch this on repeat for the rest of the evening

[rizzo]

I mean this in all seriousness, but like... Phil has fantastic legs. Just like -- really nice legs.

[starsandshards]

I mean this in all seriousness, but like... Phil has fantastic legs. Just like -- really nice legs.

truly.

this video was a blessing.

[Philena]

I mean this in all seriousness, but like... Phil has fantastic legs. Just like -- really nice legs.

Was coming here to say exactly the same thing. They are perfect

[tinnie]

Ahh it’s time for the cancel Dan and Phil on Twitter again (face palms). I think this is quite an interesting topic for us to discuss on here actually. Incase you are not on Twitter, people are bringing up old tweets/videos from like 2010/2013 if incidents where Dan and Phil has said something racist or using the r***** word etc. And people on Twitter are asking for an apology.

I have conflicted opinions, because these incidents are from 8-10 years ago, meaning people are actually trying to seek out the content to try and cancel them, which isn’t cool. Also their fans haven’t exactly been incident, trying to sexualise them and their relationship and trying to out them before they were ready. However I agree some of the stuff they said was a big yikes, but that was what YouTube was like back then, they didn’t know better.

What are your opinions on cancel culture? I think if the person/people have shown they have changed and the stuff in question is from a longggg time ago, I personally think cancel culture can be toxic.

I only came here to read opinions on Phil's new video but seeing this topic I feel like I have to join because I've seen pretty much the same exact thing happen in a different fandom of mine. Fans digging out old tweets or instagram captions of a celebrity from many years ago that had some problematic language in them or jokes that at the time people brushed off but now have people getting very upset and demanding apologies. And even when they got an apology from said person, they proceeded to say that the apology was not "good enough" and that person should apologize again. Because who cares that they actually grew up and haven't been saying such things since, right? Who cares that they've been trying to be a good ally if 5+ years ago in their early 20s they made a joke that now upset someone? But of course, let's ignore the fact that these fans, if they're currently older than 15, probably did similar things in the past or do different but still wrong things in the present, right?
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that sadly this situation is not unique to this fandom or to Dan and Phil and no matter the fandom or the people the fandom is based on, these things seem to be happening to everyone. So called fans trying to dig out dirt on the person they claim to love because they either want to cancel them or they want to make themselves look super woke and better than others. It doesn't excuse the celebrities saying certain things or making certain jokes but I'd prefer to judge them on who they are now than who they were years ago. Because that person from years ago doesn't really exist anymore.

[noodlebum]

I'm going to need to rewatch it but my general impressions of the video are:

- Great legs.
- Loved all the various black jumpers.
- Loved the cloud cardigan but in a smaller/less boxy size.
- Loved the tweed trousers, giving me Roger from 101 Dalmatians walking his dog vibes.
- Hand sanitizer outfit was genius.
- He actually looked really good in the Phil dress, like shape wise.
- I didn't need to see Phil in a maid outfit with cat accessories and regret being forced to see it, dear lord.
- Dan's laugh has somehow gotten even more insane.

[Phantasy]

What a great vid—so nice to hear their bants again! Love how loose they seemed and how freely they incorporate the once taboo, like sexuality jokes/puns. Even felt, dare I say, a bit flirty at times.

Just an observation, but I do wonder if Dan really ever calls Phil “bro” in real life or if he was just amping it up for the laughs—I’m not expecting him to call him honey or some cute pet name all of a sudden, but bro seems like a slight overcorrection.

(Also, peep the PS5 controller on top of the console. )