Dan & Phil Part 12: Stalking him until he loves you

[phamnotof]

Dan must have seen our complaints about his hand writing, he's probably doing it on purpose now

Maybe he's started writing in code and the note actually says "Phan is real guyz"

all I can read is 'assholes and erections', so you might be right

[Ablissa]

Dan must have seen our complaints about his hand writing, he's probably doing it on purpose now

Maybe he's started writing in code and the note actually says "Phan is real guyz"

all I can read is 'assholes and erections', so you might be right

It all checks out in more ways than one

Now I'm also secretly hoping that someone does make this their tattoo

[gnostic]

I keep randomly thinking, you know what would be lolworthy? If Phan turned out to be real but through some distressing breach of privacy you guys all found out #Philbottoms. That shitstorm I'd watch (maybe local crowd would keep it together, although you'd be a bit miffled privately, but some people will lose their shit)

And that led me to thinking, why is #Danbottoms such a prevalent topic in phandom? I know why *I* would expect it if phan would be true, but it's not supported by any actual evidence. Quick tumblr search led to reasons that were so cringeworthy I had to back out of tag at the speed of light. Is it just "he was young an inexperienced when they met" thing, people continuing to push their favored dynamic of Phil "taking the lead", or what?

[Winston]

Dan must have seen our complaints about his hand writing, he's probably doing it on purpose now

Maybe he's started writing in code and the note actually says "Phan is real guyz"

all I can read is 'assholes and erections', so you might be right

That is what I saw at first too! I was like, what the hell did they ask them to write this time!?

--- I am now Ms. Smith's wonderful placenta.... great.

[phamnotof]

I keep randomly thinking, you know what would be lolworthy? If Phan turned out to be real but through some distressing breach of privacy you guys all found out #Philbottoms. That shitstorm I'd watch (maybe local crowd would keep it together, although you'd be a bit miffled privately, but some people will lose their shit)

And that led me to thinking, why is #Danbottoms such a prevalent topic in phandom? I know why *I* would expect it if phan would be true, but it's not supported by any actual evidence. Quick tumblr search led to reasons that were so cringeworthy I had to back out of tag at the speed of light. Is it just "he was young an inexperienced when they met" thing, people continuing to push their favored dynamic of Phil "taking the lead", or what?

I hope it was that tweet he favorited. Because I don't even wanna touch the stereotypization and misinformation around that convo otherwise.
(Spoiler alert: self-stereotypization and any backwards internalized ideas of dominance play a little role in your anal sex preferences. Your biology/sensitivity, diet (srsly, try taking it up the ass the day after a mexican feast, I dare you) and mood are usually the most important, and most men aren't into just one thing all the time, switching is a common practice.)

[manged]

I keep randomly thinking, you know what would be lolworthy? If Phan turned out to be real but through some distressing breach of privacy you guys all found out #Philbottoms. That shitstorm I'd watch (maybe local crowd would keep it together, although you'd be a bit miffled privately, but some people will lose their shit)

Please never use "bottoms" and "shitstorm" so closely together oh god

[Ticia]

I keep randomly thinking, you know what would be lolworthy? If Phan turned out to be real but through some distressing breach of privacy you guys all found out #Philbottoms. That shitstorm I'd watch (maybe local crowd would keep it together, although you'd be a bit miffled privately, but some people will lose their shit)

And that led me to thinking, why is #Danbottoms such a prevalent topic in phandom? I know why *I* would expect it if phan would be true, but it's not supported by any actual evidence. Quick tumblr search led to reasons that were so cringeworthy I had to back out of tag at the speed of light. Is it just "he was young an inexperienced when they met" thing, people continuing to push their favored dynamic of Phil "taking the lead", or what?

I hope it was that tweet he favorited. Because I don't even wanna touch the stereotypization and misinformation around that convo otherwise.
(Spoiler alert: self-stereotypization and any backwards internalized ideas of dominance play a little role in your anal sex preferences. Your biology/sensitivity, diet (srsly, try taking it up the ass the day after a mexican feast, I dare you) and mood are usually the most important, and most men aren't into just one thing all the time, switching is a common practice.)

I believe that that #Phanfact is merely based on the Tumblr 12yo phan sexual education. Dan = screams, thus girly, so he must be the girl in a gay relationship lolzor. Dan kind of reinforced it with the accidental favourite on Twitter about being a bottom, but well.

[Lain]

(srsly, try taking it up the ass the day after a mexican feast, I dare you)

Please never use "bottoms" and "shitstorm" so closely together oh god

[alittledizzy]

(srsly, try taking it up the ass the day after a mexican feast, I dare you)

Please never use "bottoms" and "shitstorm" so closely together oh god

This is the quality content Dan and Phil can only strive to achieve.

[Winston]

I keep randomly thinking, you know what would be lolworthy? If Phan turned out to be real but through some distressing breach of privacy you guys all found out #Philbottoms. That shitstorm I'd watch (maybe local crowd would keep it together, although you'd be a bit miffled privately, but some people will lose their shit)

And that led me to thinking, why is #Danbottoms such a prevalent topic in phandom? I know why *I* would expect it if phan would be true, but it's not supported by any actual evidence. Quick tumblr search led to reasons that were so cringeworthy I had to back out of tag at the speed of light. Is it just "he was young an inexperienced when they met" thing, people continuing to push their favored dynamic of Phil "taking the lead", or what?

I hope it was that tweet he favorited. Because I don't even wanna touch the stereotypization and misinformation around that convo otherwise.
(Spoiler alert: self-stereotypization and any backwards internalized ideas of dominance play a little role in your anal sex preferences. Your biology/sensitivity, diet (srsly, try taking it up the ass the day after a mexican feast, I dare you) and mood are usually the most important, and most men aren't into just one thing all the time, switching is a common practice.)

Yes to this. Wanting it up the butt has nothing to do with ones role in the relationship, contrary to popular fanfic belief. I have a couple of friends and neither one in their relationship likes it, and another couple who both like it. It all depends on individual taste, not who is the "dominant" one in the relationship. In this case, from what I know the stereotype is pretty much ungrounded. Although I think it has to do with the heteronormalization of homosexual relations. In other words, woman are not the dominants in hetero relationships, and since that is the case then the one who takes it, is thus the "woman" in the homosexual relationship. Ugh ridiculous.

I work with all older white men. All of which are pretty conservative. Almost daily I hear some form of homophobic, sexist, and/or racist doctrine. I love it. Since I am "younger" and female and open minded, I try my damnedest to try and instill some sort of non-ignorance to the workplace. smh- all the freaking time!

[gnostic]

[double post pls ignore]

[gnostic]

I keep randomly thinking, you know what would be lolworthy? If Phan turned out to be real but through some distressing breach of privacy you guys all found out #Philbottoms. That shitstorm I'd watch (maybe local crowd would keep it together, although you'd be a bit miffled privately, but some people will lose their shit)

And that led me to thinking, why is #Danbottoms such a prevalent topic in phandom? I know why *I* would expect it if phan would be true, but it's not supported by any actual evidence. Quick tumblr search led to reasons that were so cringeworthy I had to back out of tag at the speed of light. Is it just "he was young an inexperienced when they met" thing, people continuing to push their favored dynamic of Phil "taking the lead", or what?

I hope it was that tweet he favorited. Because I don't even wanna touch the stereotypization and misinformation around that convo otherwise.
(Spoiler alert: self-stereotypization and any backwards internalized ideas of dominance play a little role in your anal sex preferences. Your biology/sensitivity, diet (srsly, try taking it up the ass the day after a mexican feast, I dare you) and mood are usually the most important, and most men aren't into just one thing all the time, switching is a common practice.)

I s2g, one of the tumblr posts I found literally said "well he's cute loud and sassy and bottoms are known to be cute loud and sassy" I just hope all of these people are very young.

As to dichotomy... it does sort of exist, and I respect its existence because for me, as a 100% top thus able to only date total bottoms, I need it (was this TMI? sorry, I just often find personal experiences relevant). Anecdotally, I have encountered it especially among gay men, and interestingly I found it much more prevalent in less progressive countries (where gay couples probably internally cling to the image of heterosexual relationship to normalize a queer one). Looking at the wide picture, it's not at all as common as someone led tumblr to believe

[Ablissa]

(srsly, try taking it up the ass the day after a mexican feast, I dare you)

Please never use "bottoms" and "shitstorm" so closely together oh god

Who needs new D&P videos when we can have deep discussions like this to survive the drought

[alittledizzy]

I came into fandom after Dan's tweet favoriting, so the tone was pretty well set for me to see Dan as someone who enjoys bottoming and isn't that ashamed of it. His own references to taking a receiving position ("enter me" jokes, lifting his legs and saying he's presenting) with sex was my indicator, not stereotyping.

[bluebox-away]

(srsly, try taking it up the ass the day after a mexican feast, I dare you)

Please never use "bottoms" and "shitstorm" so closely together oh god

This is the quality content Dan and Phil can only strive to achieve.

I properly snort/laughed out loud at this, top notch content on idb tonight
even so I'm really feeling the drought, I want my live shows back I miss them

[coffee pig]

I'm truly sorry for what I'm about to post, but...

if Phil does bottom, he is truly tempting fate with the amount of dairy products that he forces into his lactose intolerant body on a regular basis.

On a more serious note, I don't actually have an opinion on this subject because I'm not a guy who has sex with guys and I never will be.

[gnostic]

I'm truly sorry for what I'm about to post, but...

if Phil does bottom, he is truly tempting fate with the amount of dairy products that he forces into his lactose intolerant body on a regular basis.

On a more serious note, I don't actually have an opinion on this subject because I'm not a guy who has sex with guys and I never will be.

And to think you used to be my favorite person on this forum...

[phamnotof]

Yes to this. Wanting it up the butt has nothing to do with ones role in the relationship, contrary to popular fanfic belief. I have a couple of friends and neither one in their relationship likes it, and another couple who both like it. It all depends on individual taste, not who is the "dominant" one in the relationship. In this case, from what I know the stereotype is pretty much ungrounded. Although I think it has to do with the heteronormalization of homosexual relations. In other words, woman are not the dominants in hetero relationships, and since that is the case then the one who takes it, is thus the "woman" in the homosexual relationship. Ugh ridiculous.

Oh yeah, heteronormativity has heaps to do with the existance of the stereotype, absolutely, and depending on the person and also the access to spaces to educate yourself in, as gnostic mentioned, our people also apply those stereotypes on themselves regardless of preference, there's an existing tendency to mold yourself according to what you're likely to be percieved as by your larger surroundings, that's what I meant by self-stereotypization. It's definitely a thing, absolutely, just thankfully disappearing esp. within relatively progressive spaces that D&P exist in.

I s2g, one of the tumblr posts I found literally said "well he's cute loud and sassy and bottoms are known to be cute loud and sassy" I just hope all of these people are very young.

As to dichotomy... it does sort of exist, and I respect its existence because for me, as a 100% top thus able to only date total bottoms, I need it (was this TMI? sorry, I just often find personal experiences relevant). Anecdotally, I have encountered it especially among gay men, and interestingly I found it much more prevalent in less progressive countries (where gay couples probably internally cling to the image of heterosexual relationship to normalize a queer one). Looking at the wide picture, it's not at all as common as someone led tumblr to believe

Oh god, I do hope they were just really... young, yeah. Sigh. And yeah, I didn't mean to deny exitance of people who have a strict preference altogether, for whatever reason, and there are many to choose from - like yeah, some people just happen to like that, some people do use it as a tool for power play, some people's bodies only enjoy certain things, some people apply stereotypes to themselves, etc. etc. - I tried to use language that would refect that, sorry if I failed. It's just that it's not very common and therefore when applied in most off-handed conversations, I tend to think it's not people considering that but rather working within limited, uninformed and stereotypizing mindsetss.

(Of course, there's also a convo to be had around people going "no homo" around mentioning bottoming in relation to their faves, because there's definitely a sort of internalized homophobia rooting in the stereotype that it's "not really gay if you're topping". And that relates to a thing I've seen it over and over again in slash fandoms that the tendency was to appoint the male who was percieved as the less universally favorite, celebrated and successful as the Designated Top. And that felt like a way to one up the other person, to make up for *something* in relation to the other, this sort of pissing contest rooting in toxic masculinity and the sea of deep-ingrained issues around it.) (I apparenty have a lot of thoughts about topping and bottoming. Who the fuck knew.)

[gnostic]

Phamnotof, a lot of thoughts are always a nice thing!

So to be clear, IDB apparently treats bottom Dan as a joke? I guess sample size of my responders was quite small, but from the old forum I got an impression it was more of a phan believer consensus and I was wondering if I missed some epic life shattering piece of evidence (if someone brings up that "lube" thing imma flip).

But as a joke, I kind of do find it hilarious (not because someone bottoming should be a subject of mockery, of course, but as a par for our general mostly loving teasing of those two assholes). I do wonder if Willam ever tried to figure out who the fuck gets mentioned in 85% of comments to every "Boy is a Bottom" video

[Catallena]

And that led me to thinking, why is #Danbottoms such a prevalent topic in phandom? I know why *I* would expect it if phan would be true, but it's not supported by any actual evidence. Quick tumblr search led to reasons that were so cringeworthy I had to back out of tag at the speed of light. Is it just "he was young an inexperienced when they met" thing, people continuing to push their favored dynamic of Phil "taking the lead", or what?

Because the majority of the phandom are teenagers who know little difference between fantasy and reality? I prefer my phan smut with Phil on top as well, but that's a fantasy and I know that in reality male same sex couples will most likely be versatile and that includes Phan. (insert obligatory if they're actually together disclaimer here)

[gnostic]

And that led me to thinking, why is #Danbottoms such a prevalent topic in phandom? I know why *I* would expect it if phan would be true, but it's not supported by any actual evidence. Quick tumblr search led to reasons that were so cringeworthy I had to back out of tag at the speed of light. Is it just "he was young an inexperienced when they met" thing, people continuing to push their favored dynamic of Phil "taking the lead", or what?

Because the majority of the phandom are teenagers who know little difference between fantasy and reality? I prefer my phan smut with Phil on top as well, but that's a fantasy and I know that in reality male same sex couples will most likely be versatile and that includes Phan. (insert obligatory if they're actually together disclaimer here)

Then I do have to wonder why Top!Phil is their preference? Is it, again, because Phil was originally the older one? I don't think much of Tumblr type crowd is fond of epic mastermind Phil narrative that surfaces around IDB and which could explain why they assign him dominant position. They mostly see him as smol angel bean type. And some of the youngest and loudest members of the phandom I've encountered where apologetic Top!Dan girls

[Lucet]

Team #PhilBottoms

From 4:17

[Ticia]

Phamnotof, a lot of thoughts are always a nice thing!

So to be clear, IDB apparently treats bottom Dan as a joke? I guess sample size of my responders was quite small, but from the old forum I got an impression it was more of a phan believer consensus and I was wondering if I missed some epic life shattering piece of evidence (if someone brings up that "lube" thing imma flip).

In my opinion, there are three main Phandom meeting points: Twitter, Tumblr and this forum. Twitter and Tumblr are essentially full of preteen - teen fans, this meaning they base their sexual education knowledge on fanfics written by themselves and heteronormativity from their personal, IRL backgrounds*. In IDB we're older, thus more experienced in this matter, and we're aware that we can't possibly know their bunk bed arrangements without stereotypes.

* Needless to say, I'm talking about Twitter & Tumblr Phandom in general terms, of course there are people out there that know about the need to use lube and all that jazz

[gnostic]

Team #PhilBottoms

From 4:17

Well radio1 generally agrees with you, they ruled Phil was definitely on the bottom during their epic hotel room discussion

On the other side, Dan is really flexible...

[alittledizzy]

I have lots of thoughts about Phil and sex positions that are just speculation based on his reluctance with letting his more camp/feminine tendencies flourish. A lot of it goes back to how I think his family conditioning led to him growing up... not to be ashamed of his sexuality but to be ashamed of certain mannerisms or not living up to masculine ideals. (The multiple references to his 'manly' drill his dad gave him, comparing himself unfavorably to Martyn in a video, his mother listing her most embarrassing memory of him as a kid being him wanting to wear a girl's hat).

I see Dan as someone who isn't actually embarrassed at all about enjoying bottoming and isn't particularly bothered by feminine associations with it. I think (based on way more than just sex positions, but since that's what this convo is about I'm limiting it to that) that Phil is drawn to Dan's lack of shame in himself, and in my mind that could relate back to sex position too. Like could be emotionally/mentally harder to Phil to subconsciously reconcile bottoming with his concept of what he should be as a man and that leads him to really love and really value Dan's openness and how Dan embodies the things Phil struggles with.