Dan & Phil Part 35: knock knock, who’s there, i hate you

[tigertatze]

[offtopic]the amount of people casually using (and labeling other people without their approval/consent) q***r rn is making me pretty uncomfortable ngl..
I know there was a discussion about this before and most people didn't care but it is still a slur and used against LGBT people. Just because you are comfortable with "reclamining" it doesn't mean everyone is [/offtopic]

edit: oh great, top of the page

[papierklemmen]

...let's talk about houseplants

[gnostic]

This site legit reached a past-tumblr levels of tone policing, I didn't think it was possible.

Time to bow out I guess

[Birdie]

[offtopic]the amount of people casually using (and labeling other people without their approval/consent) q***r rn is making me pretty uncomfortable ngl..
I know there was a discussion about this before and most people didn't care but it is still a slur and used against LGBT people. Just because you are comfortable with "reclamining" it doesn't mean everyone is [/offtopic]

edit: oh great, top of the page

Queer is not a slur and never was. By the same logic gay would be a slur and we as a community would have absolutely no word left to label ourselves with. Homophobes will use every word we claim or reclaim as a slur but there's absolutely no need for us to just accept that. I know a lot of younger LGBTQ people on tumblr make queer out to be some kind of horrible slur but maybe read up on the actual origin of the word and how much it has helped people all throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s before tumblr teens declared it a slur. You don't have to use it to label yourself or use it at all if you're uncomfortable with it, but it's not a slur just like gay isn't. It's used as a slur by homophobes just like every word we will ever use to identify will be. I mean, in no way do you have to be comfortable with the word or use it but please understand that it's an important umbrella term for other members of the community with an important history to it.

I'm so sorry for going off-topic like this but this whole issue bugs me so much.

[SquishPhan]

Looks like the hibernation theory was true

Someone on tumblr pointed out that if you put Phil's last tweet next to Dan's, it sounds like a continuation of Phil's. honestly I can't unsee it at all after someone pointed it out.

I see it as well, and think it's pretty cute.

[secretagentphan]

[offtopic]the amount of people casually using (and labeling other people without their approval/consent) q***r rn is making me pretty uncomfortable ngl..
I know there was a discussion about this before and most people didn't care but it is still a slur and used against LGBT people. Just because you are comfortable with "reclamining" it doesn't mean everyone is [/offtopic]

edit: oh great, top of the page

Queer is not a slur and never was. By the same logic gay would be a slur and we as a community would have absolutely no word left to label ourselves with. Homophobes will use every word we claim or reclaim as a slur but there's absolutely no need for us to just accept that. I know a lot of younger LGBTQ people on tumblr make queer out to be some kind of horrible slur but maybe read up on the actual origin of the word and how much it has helped people all throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s before tumblr teens declared it a slur. You don't have to use it to label yourself or use it at all if you're uncomfortable with it, but it's not a slur just like gay isn't. It's used as a slur by homophobes just like every word we will ever use to identify will be. I mean, in no way do you have to be comfortable with the word or use it but please understand that it's an important umbrella term for other members of the community with an important history to it.

I do agree with this but it was/is never my intention to offended anyone. I called Dan and Phil queer because I think they both have stated that they don't like labels (Phil in 2009 and Dan in his dis track) and it is a good umbrella term for people who fall somewhere in the LGBTQ spectrum without having a specific label. As a queer person myself I saw no problem with it, but I do understand it makes people uncomfortable. It's hard to know where to draw the line with these things since "gay" has been used as a slur for years but again I'm sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable, I'll stop using it if it really affects people that much.

[confusedpanda]

This site legit reached a past-tumblr levels of tone policing, I didn't think it was possible.

Time to bow out I guess

Where are people policing here? Just because people don't agree, are giving counter arguments to your opinion or don't feel confortable with discussing it for personal reasons, doesn't equal policing. They are aloud to express their disagreement with your opinion. This is a conversation that not everyone is going to see eye to eye with and that's ok to debate on.

[hopefulemm]

[offtopic]the amount of people casually using (and labeling other people without their approval/consent) q***r rn is making me pretty uncomfortable ngl..
I know there was a discussion about this before and most people didn't care but it is still a slur and used against LGBT people. Just because you are comfortable with "reclamining" it doesn't mean everyone is [/offtopic]

edit: oh great, top of the page

Queer is not a slur and never was. By the same logic gay would be a slur and we as a community would have absolutely no word left to label ourselves with. Homophobes will use every word we claim or reclaim as a slur but there's absolutely no need for us to just accept that. I know a lot of younger LGBTQ people on tumblr make queer out to be some kind of horrible slur but maybe read up on the actual origin of the word and how much it has helped people all throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s before tumblr teens declared it a slur. You don't have to use it to label yourself or use it at all if you're uncomfortable with it, but it's not a slur just like gay isn't. It's used as a slur by homophobes just like every word we will ever use to identify will be. I mean, in no way do you have to be comfortable with the word or use it but please understand that it's an important umbrella term for other members of the community with an important history to it.

I do agree with this but it was/is never my intention to offended anyone. I called Dan and Phil queer because I think they both have stated that they don't like labels (Phil in 2009 and Dan in his dis track) and it is a good umbrella term for people who fall somewhere in the LGBTQ spectrum without having a specific label. As a queer person myself I saw no problem with it, but I do understand it makes people uncomfortable. It's hard to know where to draw the line with these things since "gay" has been used as a slur for years but again I'm sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable, I'll stop using it if it really affects people that much.

[offtopic]Same. I personally use it as an identifier for myself because every other orientation in the spectrum is too specific to be a comfortable fit for me. That said, while I don't personally find it offensive, my intention was never to cause anyone any discomfort.[/offtopic]

[pilotlight]

Iguanadrama.
Seriously though, when are nature documentaries ever relaxing, somebody is always getting eaten or starving.

[SquishPhan]

Iguanadrama.
Seriously though, when are nature documentaries ever relaxing, somebody is always getting eaten or starving.

I can totally see them watching this together, cuddling and then getting emotional over it.

[charlottekath]

Link to said clip.

He is so precious. I really want to just imagine them snuggling up watching this.

[gnostic]

This site legit reached a past-tumblr levels of tone policing, I didn't think it was possible.

Time to bow out I guess

Where are people policing here? Just because people don't agree, are giving counter arguments to your opinion or don't feel confortable with discussing it for personal reasons, doesn't equal policing. They are aloud to express their disagreement with your opinion. This is a conversation that not everyone is going to see eye to eye with and that's ok to debate on.

I am not talking about phan related things. I am uncomfortable with, for the lack of better word, sjw culture

[antigone]

can the discussion on sjw culture and correct terminology be on another thread pls

[Philena]

Iguanadrama.
Seriously though, when are nature documentaries ever relaxing, somebody is always getting eaten or starving.

I can totally see them watching this together, cuddling and then getting emotional over it.

Too cute! Planet Earth is actually really good at bowing out right at the most dramatic/violent bits. My whole family just rewatched the first series, and it was totally appropriate for even young children. I am jealous, since the second series isn't out in the US yet.

Also, I have no real interest in contributing to the current discussion, but I do enjoy reading the responses and am glad that everyone is keeping it civil

[Birdie]

I can't edit my post right now or else I'd put spoiler tags around my answer as well. Sorry. I guess the discussion is in this thread because the topic of the last discussion sparked it? But I think it's over already.

Link to said clip.

He is so precious. I really want to just imagine them snuggling up watching this.

Okay, but this is seriously distressing. I love how much Phil loves animals, I could listen to him tell his animal stories all day (as long as they don't involve squirrels attacking him).

[secretagentphan]

Link to said clip.

He is so precious. I really want to just imagine them snuggling up watching this.

This is so cute I want to claw out my eyes. For some reason it reminds me of when Dan slipped up in a liveshow and said he was watching a nature documentary in the bedroom

[lurker]

Link to said clip.

He is so precious. I really want to just imagine them snuggling up watching this.

i just watched the clip and it was the most stressful thing i've seen in a while, not to mention that i only realized after i'd finished that i tried to encourage the iguana by shouting "FASTER!" for a minute or so with my headphones still in. i hope my neighbour isn't home.

[MoonPride]

Link to said clip.

He is so precious. I really want to just imagine them snuggling up watching this.

i just watched the clip and it was the most stressful thing i've seen in a while, not to mention that i only realized after i'd finished that i tried to encourage the iguana by shouting "FASTER!" for a minute or so with my headphones still in. i hope my neighbour isn't home.

I get too emotional watching these kinds of things, but bloody hell that iguana had a lucky escape.

I hope they are both in bed cuddling and crying at the same time

[Amiaw]

That clip was so stressful! Glad to hear from both of them today and I am glad they are taking a break but I will be glad when we get back to regular live shows- we had gamingmas and were spoiled with content and yet I still miss spending an hour listening to Phil. ( I like Dan's live shows too but I'm never left in a relaxed, light mood after his)

[malday]

kinda OT and not exactly relevant to anything, but i just remember seeing someone here wondering why no lgbt youtubers would express disapproval of deppy's ambiguous duo branding/activities and i thought that this old-ish reply from Jazza John to a comment (mentioning dan & phil's "ambiguity") under his video was interesting, as it's seemingly one of the few times i've seen someone other than a fan address it(?). i remember lurking here and the comment itself has already been discussed, but i don't think jazza's reply has been brought up, so if it has - soz, lurk moar etc.

the d&p part of the comment:

It's hard to tell a Youtuber's sexuality sometimes when they use click bait, fake relationships 4 views or if they are genuinely gay/bisexual/ pan etc.
Dan and Phil are the obvious original example. Their gimmick was hinting at bisexuality since day 1--as was the fantastic foursome, and we know Chris is bisexual. If Dan and Phil came out as bisexual would their gimmick for views then be ethical? Or would the years of lying overshadow the representation? Or, if they came out as 100% straight would all the shippers be livid about their new 2015 brand as a unit? I would not want to be backed into THAT corner. There is no winning... but they are making bank off the ambiguity, so I don't feel too much sympathy.

Tyler Oakley is obviously a shameless opportunist, and Troye's admitted that he got on the Tyler bandwagon to gain views/ recognition. Dan did the same with Phil. I don't think it's really about sexuality that unites everyone, but their United thirst.

jazza's reply:


full comment:

nothing to discuss here, really, but i just thought it was interesting he even chose to reply to the ambiguity part at all.
afaik this guy is not friends/doesn't know deppy personally, nor is he a big youtuber and i very much doubt he watches their videos, but at the same time he's the organizer of lgbt panels at SiTC, had tyler oakley, jimmy0010 and doug armstrong on his panels, he knows chris (mentioned him and his bisexuality in one of the replies too), he's friends with gary c, teoh and ben cook (although he mostly has twitter fights with ben cook, but can you blame him) who used to hang out with deppy back in the day and he keeps shading closeted uk youtubers in his videos.

just wanted to give my 2 cents.
I kind of understand where this guy is coming from, though he might seem a little harsh.
No matter how i look at it the ambiguity does maintain the interest in their videos. What percentage of the views come from people analyzing phan, i don't know. What percentage comes from people being attracted to them, or enjoying their interactions and banter, i don't know. But the ambiguity satisfies all the types of viewers and does not drive any of them away.

I don't agree with the idea it was a gimmick from day one but i can understand why it might look like it, and why some lgbtq+ members would be annoyed by it, especially members who are about advocating and representation.
The circumstances pushed them to act a certain way, i sometimes wonder if things would have gone differently if voldy didn't leak.

I don't think they shipbait or queerbait but i do think they market themselves really well because they know what makes the phandom tick.
They kind of mold themselves to the phandom's needs and wants.

[charlottekath]

That clip was so stressful! Glad to hear from both of them today and I am glad they are taking a break but I will be glad when we get back to regular live shows- we had gamingmas and were spoiled with content and yet I still miss spending an hour listening to Phil. ( I like Dan's live shows too but I'm never left in a relaxed, light mood after his)

Yes! Completely agree I got far to complacent with such regular content but still missed the liveshows, but now I feel very grabby hands give me more. I do hope they both get a rest and come back recharged. I'm excited for 2017

I know Phil said his next show was next Thursday, did Dan mention if his was the 3rd or the following Tuesday in his last show?

[MoonPride]

That clip was so stressful! Glad to hear from both of them today and I am glad they are taking a break but I will be glad when we get back to regular live shows- we had gamingmas and were spoiled with content and yet I still miss spending an hour listening to Phil. ( I like Dan's live shows too but I'm never left in a relaxed, light mood after his)

Yes! Completely agree I got far to complacent with such regular content but still missed the liveshows, but now I feel very grabby hands give me more. I do hope they both get a rest and come back recharged. I'm excited for 2017

I know Phil said his next show was next Thursday, did Dan mention if his was the 3rd or the following Tuesday in his last show?

Dan said the 10th if I remember correctly.

[alittledizzy]

Off the top of my head, underthesameumbrellajaphan, dancing together to Edd Sheeran, the entire fucking tatinof fanfiction section, and many others. I should note that my fanservice qualms also come from understanding that their major audience is 15 year olds. SO what seems like obvious fanservice / joking to us, is taken at face value by about 3 million people, and Dan and Phil KNOW it.

(I researched Dan and Phil's relationship with their fans and their marketing strategies more in depth than some of you people researched phan timelines, can you see me fire up and go)

Standing under the same umbrella is seriously classed as a big fan service moment of D&Ps? Even going from the perspective of a 15 year old surely sharing an umbrella with the friend in the rain is not suggestive? Plenty of friends share and umbrella when it's raining and to be fair them taking a picture both under one doesn't even imply to me they were even sharing it but rather that to not stand awkwardly far apart in a photograph one stepped under the umbrella's vicinity for a picture.

I'm sure the fans thought the photo was all kinds of adorable but to be real that could be said for every joint photo they've ever shared. I mean I suppose technically every time they take any picture together (or alone for that matter) and put in on their public social media accounts they are doing a form of fan service because those accounts exist to service the fans. They use their social media accounts to maintain fan relations (as does every youtuber) so it stands to reason with every picture they share it's there because they think the fans would like to see it. So yeah I can see the argument everything on their social media is fan service but I don't see why the umbrella picture is standout fan service though.

Drivers stop note: standing under the same umbrella has romantic implications in Japan, which are massively exaggerating by anime. Dan and Phil are giant weabos and so is a good part of their audience.

That's such an offensive assumption of motive on their part, and also an assumption of awareness of Japanese culture that I'm pretty sure most of their audience didn't know. It was literally raining.

As other people have pointed out, they basically can't win with you. It seems like the only way you'd accept things they do as not fan service would be to cease working together or go as far back into the closet as possible.

Don't mistake my belief in their basic human decency for naivety; I am also familiar with the art of entertainers marketing themselves, am familiar with the demographics of their fanbase, and am under no misconception that ambiguity doesn't benefit them. But as was already said once, outcome doesn't equate to motive. There are reasons people do things besides money - even if in the process of doing them they are making money. If you look at Dan and Phil and only see two people who calculate every movie to manipulate fans - then I got nothing for you, and I'm gonna be done with this conversation now because it makes me far too sad to see two people I'm a fan of viewed in such a negative light.

I hope they are both in bed cuddling and crying at the same time

You know they are. If Phil was 'almost crying' then Dan was probably full on sobbing.

[secretagentphan]

Link to said clip.

He is so precious. I really want to just imagine them snuggling up watching this.

This is so cute I want to claw out my eyes. For some reason it reminds me of when Dan slipped up in a liveshow and said he was watching a nature documentary in the bedroom

[missemma]

...let's talk about houseplants

This.

I have nothing else to add to the current discussions, mostly because they make me kind of uncomfortable. We are talking about real people here and making them out to be some kind of awful people is making me feel kinda gross.