Dan & Phil Part 35: knock knock, who’s there, i hate you

[bluebox-away]

Looks like a child(dan?lol) a dog, and another person

I can't place it exactly, but this looks like a brand/style of card I've seen before, as if they make loads of them for big stationary shops? Anyone else from/in the UK know what I'm on about? I'm losing sleep trying to find it

[Sakura Selfie]

Looks like a child(dan?lol) a dog, and another person

I can't place it exactly, but this looks like a brand/style of card I've seen before, as if they make loads of them for big stationary shops? Anyone else from/in the UK know what I'm on about? I'm losing sleep trying to find it

Yep, looks like the style that has an old fashioned pic with a jokey caption like this https://www.moonpig.com/uk/search/facet ... sign:funny

[secretagentphan]

I'm glad # cardgate came to the rescue to remind me why I signed up for this forum it's still no LubeGate though

Could someone summarize/point to lubegate? It's not included in the histories of the phandom that I have read. I assume it happened over on the other site, which I haven't tried to digest.

As for #cardgate, I wonder if the Howells sent a card to Phil too?

In an old video, in Dan's suitcase it looked like a there was a bottle of lube. It's in one of the ditl videos I think.

I'm sure someone will be able to direct you to the right place.

Yes, Lubegate happened on the other site.

Here are some recaps of #lubegate that I'm quoting from the conspiracy theory thread, courtesy of Ticia, smarties, daphenaxa, and felucca:

I think lubegate refers to a danisnotonfire video where a bottle of lube could be seen inside his suitcase. Found these pics in the-place-that-shall-not-be-named:

Also for me the lube gate is more of a fact....

and I just wanna add that the lube could have been also this one, just for the record...

OK to give a complete account of #lubegate I just shamelessy copied and pasted felluca's brilliant recap on the site that shall not be named:

Ok guys so since we're talking about it, here's the cherry and lube mentions for reference, enjoy.

Speciment A, B, C and D, Dan's tweets and formsprings about cherry (and pinã colada):

Speciment E, vday video mention of cherry:

"And funny times in my bed."

Speciment F, tweet to charlieskies about lube:

Speciment G, possible lube bottle of the same brand in Dan's suitcase:

(0.18 in "I'm a mess")

(fun fact: durex play also comes in "very cherry" and "piña colada" flavour)

Oh and did someone say Luke and Emma? Here's a classy twitter combo between them on the subject:

Wait not to double post about lube gate but it kind of seems like it's a suitcase filled with gifts from fans? I remember it had other stuff in it too (like wipes...) but is it possible a fan got them lube as a joke? Would that be way too much? Should I just accept that Dan and Phil had cheeky bum sex in the hotel?

[MoonPride]

this makes absolutely no sense but i see 'Joey worry a Phil Howell as well' for the first line.
i feel blind

I think it says 'hope you and phil are doing well

Eta: ok maybe not. I'll look again when I'm not falling asleep

[sweetmm]

Way to end 2016 with pics of lubes on my screen

[pilotlight]

Wait not to double post about lube gate but it kind of seems like it's a suitcase filled with gifts from fans? I remember it had other stuff in it too (like wipes...) but is it possible a fan got them lube as a joke? Would that be way too much? Should I just accept that Dan and Phil had cheeky bum sex in the hotel?

I mean, there are other reasons besides cheeky bumsex why a guy might own lube.
If a fan was brave (not the word I'm looking for at all but I hope you know what I mean) enough to gift lube as a gag gift, I would almost expect them to at least give cherry lube.

[oqua]

Okay, I'm pretty sure I found the company that made the card, but not the card itself (possibly because it was two years ago, so maybe they don't make the card anymore.)

The company is called "The Dog's Doodahs" and basically this it lets you customize your card by inserting the name(s) of people you're giving the card to or people in your family or whatever.

So here are some views of the front of Dan's card:



(I think it looks like four or five children, one of whom is opening a Christmas present?)

And here are some "The Dog's Doodahs" cards with a similar format:

I now think that the likelihood that the first line mentions Phil or "Dad" or some other name is quite high, because whatever the first line of the message says, it almost certainly references the front of the card.

If you want to browse their full Christmas collection you can check it out here:
http://m.thedogsdoodahs.com/all-cards/c ... cards.aspx

[Moony]

If a fan was brave (not the word I'm looking for at all but I hope you know what I mean) enough to gift lube as a gag gift, I would almost expect them to at least give cherry lube.

I can feel the second hand embarrasment just at the thought of that. If someone could do that they could do anything

re: cardgate

I think the last word of the first sentence looks like an "and"
And then it would make sense for the first ones to be "We are" or something like that.
As in: "We are [...] and looking forward to seeing you soon."
Is this something a native speaker would say or does it sound unnatural? You tell me guys
I might be the best in my english class but only because all the other german students don't watch british tv shows like I do lol

[Lain]

Okay, I'm pretty sure I found the company that made the card, but not the card itself (possibly because it was two years ago, so maybe they don't make the card anymore.)

The company is called "The Dog's Doodahs" and basically this it lets you customize your card by inserting the name(s) of people you're giving the card to or people in your family or whatever.

So here are some views of the front of Dan's card:



(I think it looks like four or five children, one of whom is opening a Christmas present?)

And here are some "The Dog's Doodahs" cards with a similar format:

I now think that the likelihood that the first line mentions Phil or "Dad" or some other name is quite high, because whatever the first line of the message says, it almost certainly references the front of the card.

If you want to browse their full Christmas collection you can check it out here:
http://m.thedogsdoodahs.com/all-cards/c ... cards.aspx

And here I thought that I had narrowed it down to Emotional Rescue's 'On-the-Ceiling' or 'On-the-Ceiling-Morphed' cards!


I couldn't find the exact card either, though.

[mez29]

Okay, I'm pretty sure I found the company that made the card, but not the card itself (possibly because it was two years ago, so maybe they don't make the card anymore.)

The company is called "The Dog's Doodahs" and basically this it lets you customize your card by inserting the name(s) of people you're giving the card to or people in your family or whatever.

So here are some views of the front of Dan's card:



(I think it looks like four or five children, one of whom is opening a Christmas present?)

And here are some "The Dog's Doodahs" cards with a similar format:

I now think that the likelihood that the first line mentions Phil or "Dad" or some other name is quite high, because whatever the first line of the message says, it almost certainly references the front of the card.

If you want to browse their full Christmas collection you can check it out here:
http://m.thedogsdoodahs.com/all-cards/c ... cards.aspx

And here I thought that I had narrowed it down to Emotional Rescue's 'On-the-Ceiling' or 'On-the-Ceiling-Morphed' cards!


I couldn't find the exact card either, though.

Yeah, I thought it would be an On-The-Ceiling one as they are very popular in the UK. It looks like both of them use the exact same design style so it probably comes down to whether Dan's parents would send a personalised card or not. I'm thinking not cos personalised cards are a bit cringe tbh.

[oqua]

Okay, I'm pretty sure I found the company that made the card, but not the card itself (possibly because it was two years ago, so maybe they don't make the card anymore.)

The company is called "The Dog's Doodahs" and basically this it lets you customize your card by inserting the name(s) of people you're giving the card to or people in your family or whatever.

So here are some views of the front of Dan's card:



(I think it looks like four or five children, one of whom is opening a Christmas present?)

And here are some "The Dog's Doodahs" cards with a similar format:

I now think that the likelihood that the first line mentions Phil or "Dad" or some other name is quite high, because whatever the first line of the message says, it almost certainly references the front of the card.

If you want to browse their full Christmas collection you can check it out here:
http://m.thedogsdoodahs.com/all-cards/c ... cards.aspx

And here I thought that I had narrowed it down to Emotional Rescue's 'On-the-Ceiling' or 'On-the-Ceiling-Morphed' cards!


I couldn't find the exact card either, though.

Yeah, I thought it would be an On-The-Ceiling one as they are very popular in the UK. It looks like both of them use the exact same design style so it probably comes down to whether Dan's parents would send a personalised card or not. I'm thinking not cos personalised cards are a bit cringe tbh.

I feel like they might, tbh? They got him a mug with Colin on it for Christmas this year. And I feel like if they could make the card funny by putting Dan's name in it or something, they might do it? Idk. Do these on the ceiling cards really come in the exact same style?

Edit: Wait, I guess they do come in the exact same style!! But what about the red names? Are they just red for effect?

Edit #2: Do the on-the-ceiling ones not actually have names in red? Sorry if I sound like an idiot right now lol.

If these cards are easy to get in the UK, then I'm going to say it's probably NOT personalized.

[Catallena]

[offtopic]the amount of people casually using (and labeling other people without their approval/consent) q***r rn is making me pretty uncomfortable ngl..
I know there was a discussion about this before and most people didn't care but it is still a slur and used against LGBT people. Just because you are comfortable with "reclamining" it doesn't mean everyone is [/offtopic]

edit: oh great, top of the page

Queer is not a slur and never was. By the same logic gay would be a slur and we as a community would have absolutely no word left to label ourselves with. Homophobes will use every word we claim or reclaim as a slur but there's absolutely no need for us to just accept that. I know a lot of younger LGBTQ people on tumblr make queer out to be some kind of horrible slur but maybe read up on the actual origin of the word and how much it has helped people all throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s before tumblr teens declared it a slur. You don't have to use it to label yourself or use it at all if you're uncomfortable with it, but it's not a slur just like gay isn't. It's used as a slur by homophobes just like every word we will ever use to identify will be. I mean, in no way do you have to be comfortable with the word or use it but please understand that it's an important umbrella term for other members of the community with an important history to it.

I'm so sorry for going off-topic like this but this whole issue bugs me so much.

K. But don't call other people that if you don't know whether they're comfortable with it considering the negative connotations the word has for so many people. That's all she's asking, she's not saying you can't use it for yourself.


I'm so glad #Cardgate is here to save us from the past gamingmas boredom.

[Lain]

Okay, I'm pretty sure I found the company that made the card, but not the card itself (possibly because it was two years ago, so maybe they don't make the card anymore.)

The company is called "The Dog's Doodahs" and basically this it lets you customize your card by inserting the name(s) of people you're giving the card to or people in your family or whatever.

So here are some views of the front of Dan's card:



(I think it looks like four or five children, one of whom is opening a Christmas present?)

And here are some "The Dog's Doodahs" cards with a similar format:

I now think that the likelihood that the first line mentions Phil or "Dad" or some other name is quite high, because whatever the first line of the message says, it almost certainly references the front of the card.

If you want to browse their full Christmas collection you can check it out here:
http://m.thedogsdoodahs.com/all-cards/c ... cards.aspx

And here I thought that I had narrowed it down to Emotional Rescue's 'On-the-Ceiling' or 'On-the-Ceiling-Morphed' cards!


I couldn't find the exact card either, though.

Yeah, I thought it would be an On-The-Ceiling one as they are very popular in the UK. It looks like both of them use the exact same design style so it probably comes down to whether Dan's parents would send a personalised card or not. I'm thinking not cos personalised cards are a bit cringe tbh.

I feel like they might, tbh? They got him a mug with Colin on it for Christmas this year. And I feel like if they could make the card funny by putting Dan's name in it or something, they might do it? Idk. Do these on the ceiling cards really come in the exact same style?

Edit: Wait, I guess they do come in the exact same style!! But what about the red names? Are they just red for effect?

Edit #2: Do the on-the-ceiling ones not actually have names in red? Sorry if I sound like an idiot right now lol.

If these cards are easy to get in the UK, then I'm going to say it's probably NOT personalized.

I just scrolled down to the bottom of the DogsDoodahs main page and:

"© 2016 Emotional Rescue | TheDogsDoodahs.com is the online home of Emotional Rescue and On-The-Ceiling Cards - For all your personalised cards and gift needs"



I've been searching for this card for far too long and I'm not even quite sure why.

[oqua]

Okay these are from on-the-ceiling and they look exactly the same. Except Dan's seems to have a red banner thing across the top (like the season's greeting one on the far right, but red.)



So if this is a common card brand in the UK I'm guessing that that is indeed what his card is.

re: cardgate

I think the last word of the first sentence looks like an "and"
And then it would make sense for the first ones to be "We are" or something like that.
As in: "We are [...] and looking forward to seeing you soon."
Is this something a native speaker would say or does it sound unnatural? You tell me guys
I might be the best in my english class but only because all the other german students don't watch british tv shows like I do lol

I think that that sounds natural in English, yeah.

Do you guys think the fifth word in the first line is "about"?

[Birdie]

You guys are actually detectives, oh my god. Well done on figuring out the brand of the card. I love how the dog is included in the card, that's just the cutest thing.

(Can we stop with the q**r discourse now? I said what I thought about it in my post and I don’t really feel like explaining it again, especially since it doesn’t really belong on idb anyway.)

[momoroki]

Ahh bluebox-away, I like the xxxx idea, because the fifth word really doesn't look like a name.

I agree that the closing comment seems to be three short words; "Lots of love" and something like "Love & hugs" seem equally likely to me personally. But it could be something else too.

So I guess currently I'm seeing something like this?



Do you guys agree that the front of the card shows a dog?

It looks like "Dan, sorry to (something something) so well to me
I thought it was "Dan, nice to see you're doing so well" at first but it doesn't fit completely haha

[jesp]

(Can we stop with the q**r discourse now? I said what I thought about it in my post and I don’t really feel like explaining it again, especially since it doesn’t really belong on idb anyway.)

I'd just like to explain part of the way I and the other mods choose to moderate the forum, especially in relation to the part of your post I bolded above.

The discussion about the word queer does belong on IDB if people want to talk about it, either in relation to Dan and Phil or as a more general discussion. When it takes place in the main thread, and is an entirely off topic discussion, we'll treat it the same way we treat all off topic discussion and happily allow it to continue, since almost all of the time that allows for a better flow in the main thread, may spark new conversation, and may entice a lurker or two to join in. That being said, if it - or any other off topic discussion - began to take over the thread for a longer time, we would move it to a new, dedicated, thread.

[lefthandedism]

Ahh bluebox-away, I like the xxxx idea, because the fifth word really doesn't look like a name.

I agree that the closing comment seems to be three short words; "Lots of love" and something like "Love & hugs" seem equally likely to me personally. But it could be something else too.

So I guess currently I'm seeing something like this?



Do you guys agree that the front of the card shows a dog?

It looks like "Dan, sorry to (something something) so well to me
I thought it was "Dan, nice to see you're doing so well" at first but it doesn't fit completely haha

How about the first line reading

"Dan, sorry to hear about the ????"

[Birdie]

(Can we stop with the q**r discourse now? I said what I thought about it in my post and I don’t really feel like explaining it again, especially since it doesn’t really belong on idb anyway.)

I'd just like to explain part of the way I and the other mods choose to moderate the forum, especially in relation to the part of your post I bolded above.

The discussion about the word queer does belong on IDB if people want to talk about it, either in relation to Dan and Phil or as a more general discussion. When it takes place in the main thread, and is an entirely off topic discussion, we'll treat it the same way we treat all off topic discussion and happily allow it to continue, since almost all of the time that allows for a better flow in the main thread, may spark new conversation, and may entice a lurker or two to join in. That being said, if it - or any other off topic discussion - began to take over the thread for a longer time, we would move it to a new, dedicated, thread.

Okay, thanks for explaining. In that case I'd just like to add that I didn't mean to attack anyone with my first post and I'm sorry it sounded so harsh. I only noticed I could have worded that much nicer once I reread it after a few hours (and I can't edit it for some reason or else I'd add this to the original post). I of course respect anyone who doesn't want to be labeled as queer for whatever reasons. I just think queer is one of the only really inclusive umbrella terms we have, especially for non-binary people since LGBT doesn't cover that at all. I get that it has a lot of negative connotations but it's also a very important word for the community, especially older people in it, and the communities' history so I flinch everytime I see it labeled as a slur and I get defensive. That doesn't mean I don't respect people who don't want to use the word. I totally forgot to say that in my original post (which was rushed and not at all well written ) so I'm adding it now.

[oqua]

I think the message in the banner thing at the top just says "Merry Christmas":

Ahh bluebox-away, I like the xxxx idea, because the fifth word really doesn't look like a name.

I agree that the closing comment seems to be three short words; "Lots of love" and something like "Love & hugs" seem equally likely to me personally. But it could be something else too.

So I guess currently I'm seeing something like this?



Do you guys agree that the front of the card shows a dog?

It looks like "Dan, sorry to (something something) so well to me
I thought it was "Dan, nice to see you're doing so well" at first but it doesn't fit completely haha

How about the first line reading

"Dan, sorry to hear about the ????"

I'm interested that you guys think that's what it says, because that was one of my first thoughts, but I rejected it because I thought it wouldn't make much sense. Though I thought it might say "Truly sorry." Why would it say, "To Dan - Dan, sorry to hear about..." — like, why repeat "Dan"?

But then again, it seems weird to apologize at the beginning of a Christmas card. Although, I guess it could be a joking apology, maybe based on whatever the front of the card says.

[blu]

i looked at it again and i feel like thw first word could be sorry

[confusedpanda]

For the first line, I can see "___y ____ in/a ___ down/something beginning with the letter d?? To/in and"
The ending word of "and" can fit as a transition into the next line possibly.

[dezzawintz]

I know the conversation has moved on, but I just wanted to chime in on the non-binary/casual cissexism discussion in relation to Phil and his upbringing.

Phil, like me, is a northerner. I grew up very near to where he did, and I almost went to his high school. I'm sure were I a couple of years older and a couple of towns over, we would have been great friends. I too am a massive emo loser whaddup philly hmu let's go hang down't urbis together.

I went over this on the website that shall not be named, but it was years ago and I did a shoddy (drunken) job, so I'm going to do it again. Basically, Phil is super northern; I don't just mean his accent (because lbr, he's pretty much lost it and I'll never forgive him), but I mean in who he is, you know? His personality, his mannerisms, his humour, it all shines with a faint glow that helps us northerners spot one another out in the big, scary world.

Here is some (probably boring) historical context:

Gender roles are prevalent everywhere, but they're especially ingrained into northern working class culture. I'm not necessarily saying that Phil is/was brought up working class (that's a whole other discussion), but many people in the north are brought up with working class values, despite their income, because their parents (and/or grandparents) were working class factory workers.

The north used to be the UK's centre of industry. We thrived for a long time, and each area had a speciality; whether that was mining, textiles, farming, or whatever else. Our (mine and Phil's) towns and the close city of Manchester were huge for cotton manufacturing (fun fact: Manchester was once nicknamed Cottonopolis (bants), and was deliberately built to be one of the most rainy cities in the UK because the moist air was good for cotton production).

Alas, it couldn't last forever, and in the second half of the 20th century the golden age of manufacturing started to die. Northern towns died along with it, and the northern landscape is now depressingly bleak. You might recall the minor's riots (shown in Billy Elliot), or have heard people slating Margaret Thatcher (second fun fact: when you leave 10 Downing Street after a term as Prime Minister, you're allowed to take the front door with you. Only two Prime Minister's ever did, and Maggie, of course, is one of them lol).

You may have seen that votes for Brexit were a majority in the north. A non racist reason for that is that many northerners blame globalisation for the death of northern industry, and feel completely abandoned/left behind as the world progresses. I was a Bremainer, but there is definitely a deep sense of aching loss at the death of northern industry that still chimes through the souls of many in the north today.

ANYWAY, sick tangent dezza, I swear I have a point lol. Basically, this industrialisation encouraged a culture that relied pretty heavily on gender roles. If I'd have been alive in the 1940's, I would have left school at 14, worked in the mills until I found a nice fella, got married after a lengthy courtship, had his kids, and been the stay at home mum that I am definitely not cut out to be; all while he would continue to work in the mills, and bring home the bacon. If I was feeling particularly adventurous, I might have trained to be a typist or a secretary, but at some point I would have probably have had kids and become a northern mam. That is likely how Phil's grandparents lived, and his parents were probably raised with that mindset, resulting in Phil being raised with a strong sense of what gender is and how it is "appropriate" for "men and women" to act.

In the same way that a depression lingers from the industrial decline, so do the values and expectations of that time. I love the north, and am very proud to be northern (and working class), but there is sometimes an eagerness to hold onto "working class family values" that is heavily ingrained, even in people that are more progressive, because that way of life is not very distant in our past.

Now I'm not saying that northerners are less progressive that anybody else, far from it; I feel that some northern characteristics are more progressive: we have an almost socialist model of looking out for one another, and forming very tight communities, for example. At the end of the day, it all depends on the person; I'm working class, but I'm as left leaning as they come, and a self identified queer. I don't mean to excuse anyone's actions with this analysis, but someone mentioned Phil's upbringing and it got me thinking.

My personal opinion is that I love them for trying, and I think that we're all on a journey when it comes to identity politics. Some stuff is so deeply ingrained into the public psyche that even when you as a person exist in a way that directly opposes what we're taught, it can be incredibly hard to get it right all the time.

Sorry that this is so long, and also that I can't seem to post without going into an unreasonable amount of detail lol. Love y'all, I'll be lurkin'

[alittledizzy]

dezza, your post was very fascinating, thank you for taking the time to write it out! The north of England sounds a lot like any city that underwent an industry boom in the early 20th century and I definitely agree that cities thriving on industry with a big working class did form close knit communities and things like working class values and gender roles were definitely passed along through family just by virtue of what people made a priority to instill in their children.

But I would also point out that progress doesn't happen by giving people a pass just because their parents were a certain way. I don't think anyone on here is actually angry at Phil; people are discussing the fact that he does try, and that he was inconsistent in his own attempt (not gendering Toto through most of ten episodes and then slipping at the end) and that it shows he hasn't internalized some issues. I think everyone's hope is that he continues to try and that everyone of his generation and so on just gets better and better until things like non-binary pronouns are just part of the fabric of our languages.

[Phantasy]

It makes me wonder why the card wasn't addressed to Phil as well...
if they were out as a couple to Dan's family in 2014, it would be strange I think to not address them both? Even if Dan's family sees them as just best friends/house mates, I'd still think that warrants a "send our love to Phil" or something, but of course it's very plausible to be omitted.

So, either: a) they weren't out as a couple to Dan's family; b) they were out, but Dan's family refuses to accept/acknowledge (tragic, but might explain a lot)