saffarinda wrote:I think anyone would enjoy the attention, but the stuff that made me the most uncomfortable was when Dan was younger and would casually mention that he was fat, and make subtle allusions to the fact that he dislikes his appearance, but brush them off as not being serious or it just being a joke - I'd rather he be confident and pleased with his appearance, posting all these aesthetic pictures, than maintaining such a negative impression of himself tbh
I'm sure Dan wasn't/isn't immune to insecurity and probably genuinely does have times of feeling fat or ugly but I find it very unlikely Dan needed a fandom to tell him he was attractive before he realised it.
I mean for one fetus Dan tried to build up said online following by putting naked pictures online for every follower milestone he reached which definitely suggests he had a certain level of self-awareness about his own attractiveness even back then.
Here he is showing his awareness of his attractiveness and that his an insecure person all in one tweet.
Oh he definitely isn't immune to insecurity - celebrities have self-confidence issues too haha. I don't think he needed the fandom to tell him he was attractive but I remember parts of certain liveshows where he's appreciated compliments because he doesn't think he looks good (in the ribena one someone says "You look good today!" and he says "Aite, thanks, I needed that because I think I look... messy" - god I'm literal for just knowing that) so some of them must influence him to a certain extent.
Yeah I agree with you on the nakedbooths, it's just that no one is ever pleased and confident with their aesthetics 24/7 - I've seen pictures of myself and been like "Wow I look good omg!" then seen other pics or looked at myself in the mirror and just hATED IT Being in control of how he looks and how everyone gets to see him could be a big part of that - videos and pictures that he has can be edited or deleted, fan pictures or livestreams can't
Last edited by saffarinda on Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Artdefines06 wrote:
*btw the "attacked" part is a joke, pls don't start a convo about Dan being forced to do things, he's not really]
Yeah, I have noticed a big part of his danisnotonfire persona is pretending to not want to do things that he actually does want to do. For example he said in a ls that he bought the kangaroo suit, but then pretended Phil bought it and forced him to wear it in the "will dan and Phil survive Australia" vid.
[offtopic]speaking of oz, I just had my first tim tam. Yum! 5 out of 5.[/offtopic]
Artdefines06 wrote:
*btw the "attacked" part is a joke, pls don't start a convo about Dan being forced to do things, he's not really]
Yeah, I have noticed a big part of his danisnotonfire persona is pretending to not want to do things that he actually does want to do. For example he said in a ls that he bought the kangaroo suit, but then pretended Phil bought it and forced him to wear it in the "will dan and Phil survive Australia" vid.
[offtopic]speaking of oz, I just had my first tim tam. Yum! 5 out of 5.[/offtopic]
Ah yes, the kangaroo suit. Somewhere in the archives here is a post crying about how awful they are and how they lie to us. The nice folks here assured me it was all in the name of comedy, because they are entertainers, and reminded me that they only "lied" in the video, but were quite truthful in the liveshow, and therefore it was ok. I have made peace with the idea that anything they do in front of the public in a video is in fact planned and rehearsed and acted. Gaming video intros are filmed after the fact, Phil always lost the last round of 7 sec challenge in Tatinof, and all men do is lie.
*I think this is why I think Dan always looks so uncomfortable in the beginning of collab's he does on Phils channel. In say a pinof or a baking vid they can edit the fck out of it and do it in little bits one at a time and there is a familar rhythem to it. But in one of the random amazing phil vids, like the australia one, I genuinly think Phil only gives Dan a general rundown of what is happening and expects him to just roll with it.
ie. I'm going to do an intro, then ask you your thoughts, then pull out the costume and you act all surprised, then i found some stuff about australia and you just react to it ok Go!
Which works well for Phil, but probably freaks Dan out a little lol. if he messes up it's more editing, you have to restart the dialogue which means it wont feel as authentic, blahda blahda.
And don't think Phil is an angel lol, he know wtf drop bears were, he just went with it. I would hate that video if it wasn't so darn adorable lol.
Honestly I think Dan knows people find him attractive, but when people are objectifying you it doesn't really feel as genuine. I agree he values other things like intelligence and humor above looks which adds another layer of insecurity. When he names celebrity crushes they seem to all have a little quirkiness to them and their personality is most of the appeal (even evan peters is quirky and elf like even though hes also a total babe). Also if we're assuming him and Phil were/are together Phil is gorgeous don't get me wrong but he's very quirky and less conventionally attractive than Dan (but I might be more attracted to Phil especially with his hair pushed back lol)
When people tell me I'm pretty it does feel good but at the same time in the back of my head I think that I'm not actually but they can't tell because they haven't seen all the gross candid pictures of me ect. which I feel like Dan also feels.
Also i definitely think knowing you're objectively attractive to a lot of people and thinking you're attractive are two different things. Up until recently Dan seemed VERY uncomfortable with the fact that he was feminine/pretty attractive and even now when he talks about guys he wished he looked like they're always muscular and masculine. He seems to be embracing his form of attractiveness more now but I still wouldn't say he's super confident. For me my confidence comes in waves and it seems like Dan is the same way. I hope this makes sense because it sounded good in my head but I did a shit job explaining it.
that photo dan posted..i am #dantrash..he's so pretty it's not fair ;o; i think he seems a lot more confident in himself lately, imo at least. he seems to slightly..care less of what others think? not completely but just slightly. thats how i see it though.
dontpanic wrote:I went through a breakup a few days ago so my are on very tight to compensate.
That's how they get you! Lol. Man, I was a casual fan before, but after my boyfriend of 5 years left, I really fell into the pit. They helped me believe in love again. Wishing you the best.
Artdefines06 wrote:
*btw the "attacked" part is a joke, pls don't start a convo about Dan being forced to do things, he's not really]
Yeah, I have noticed a big part of his danisnotonfire persona is pretending to not want to do things that he actually does want to do. For example he said in a ls that he bought the kangaroo suit, but then pretended Phil bought it and forced him to wear it in the "will dan and Phil survive Australia" vid.
[offtopic]speaking of oz, I just had my first tim tam. Yum! 5 out of 5.[/offtopic]
Ah yes, the kangaroo suit. Somewhere in the archives here is a post crying about how awful they are and how they lie to us. The nice folks here assured me it was all in the name of comedy, because they are entertainers, and reminded me that they only "lied" in the video, but were quite truthful in the liveshow, and therefore it was ok. I have made peace with the idea that anything they do in front of the public in a video is in fact planned and rehearsed and acted. Gaming video intros are filmed after the fact, Phil always lost the last round of 7 sec challenge in Tatinof, and all men do is lie.
*I think this is why I think Dan always looks so uncomfortable in the beginning of collab's he does on Phils channel. In say a pinof or a baking vid they can edit the fck out of it and do it in little bits one at a time and there is a familar rhythem to it. But in one of the random amazing phil vids, like the australia one, I genuinly think Phil only gives Dan a general rundown of what is happening and expects him to just roll with it.
ie. I'm going to do an intro, then ask you your thoughts, then pull out the costume and you act all surprised, then i found some stuff about australia and you just react to it ok Go!
Which works well for Phil, but probably freaks Dan out a little lol. if he messes up it's more editing, you have to restart the dialogue which means it wont feel as authentic, blahda blahda.
And don't think Phil is an angel lol, he know wtf drop bears were, he just went with it. I would hate that video if it wasn't so darn adorable lol.
"all men do is lie" woah is this just some humour I'm missing out on? Of course Phil always has to lose the last round in TATINOF, they don't have two routes planned for the show.
I mean, as entertainers most humour is made up - you don't think every time a comedian tells a hilarious anecdote that it actually happened? Creating a joke like the kangaroo onesie is purely to entertain - if Dan was just like "yeah sure i'll get in the onesie" then it loses all comedic value and worth.
Like all comedians, youtubers begin videos with an outline regarding what they want to discuss, any key points they want to make, or any jokes they want to add - if we were provided with 100% natural, unscripted content then youtube videos would just be waffle with very few jokes. It's not like an entire video has a script, but without atleast a vague plan the video loses the key purpose viewers and potential audience's crave.
secretagentphan wrote:Honestly I think Dan knows people find him attractive, but when people are objectifying you it doesn't really feel as genuine. I agree he values other things like intelligence and humor above looks which adds another layer of insecurity. When he names celebrity crushes they seem to all have a little quirkiness to them and their personality is most of the appeal (even evan peters is quirky and elf like even though hes also a total babe). Also if we're assuming him and Phil were/are together Phil is gorgeous don't get me wrong but he's very quirky and less conventionally attractive than Dan (but I might be more attracted to Phil especially with his hair pushed back lol)
Susanisnotafish wrote:
Yeah, I have noticed a big part of his danisnotonfire persona is pretending to not want to do things that he actually does want to do.
I think in the case of what Dan and Phil "provide us". I feel that the community built by the phandom were built over time-people watch videos already made, watch their liveshows...deppy have build up this "friendliness" that many people believe genuinely exists. Maybe I'm just bitter and pessimistic, but I just see everything they do as "entertainment" and that the kind of community they try to create is to provide for their own livelihood. Certain encounters just remind me of that-their obligation to meet phans despite their discomfort, their obsessiveness about themselves yet unwillingness to be "open" with their audience, and just their general discomfort. The continuing decrease in their honesty and ACTUAL personality with their audience is apparent in their gradual decrease in tweets, pictures, videos, any content whatsoever. What I believe is, if they weren't reliant on this as their career, they would have gave the middle-finger up and left a long time ago, like Bryony.
In close encounters with "nice" phans, I can see them being surprised by people's kindness and moments like at TATINOF where Dan even cried on stage-you can see genuine appreciation. But then there are other moments, when Dan is nearly spitting at his audience, being condescending, annoyed-all with good reason. Really, what I feel, is that deppy see their phandom as a whole thing and rarely consider it individual human beings. No matter how nice and genuine you are, they won't see your "I love you and appreciate everything you do" kind of tweets, instead they think of the overwhelming pressure the phandom puts on, the faceless entity they must appease. They probably stress over the negative aspects than praise the good-so its easy just to shut it all off. Tweet less. Be less open. The nice faces are indistinguishable among the ugly.
People are here for community, it's the only thing keeping this phandom alive, deppy provide the bare minimum. Seeing that Dan appeared in a pic with Bryony (and has appeared on her personal account only few times already) and didn't really say anything, do anything, just went missing. Phil just posting a picture of a fucking cookie. Yet, it's all normal. Nobody really cares. It's like everybody is friends with them, the phandom still argues about "phan", and deppy are above and beyond it all.
Simply put: there is no "improvement" to make, because they made the decision a long time ago to cut their lives off. It's just annoying to see them not really care even the slightest-any illusion of friendliness of community on there part is fake, they have this massive world around that bubble and it just annoys me whenever this "illusion" breaks and yet everybody just carries on. You can call it me making a "realization" that we all knew already and just emphasized by another bad mood I'm in, but you can't look at the relation between deppy and their audience and think, "wow they really care about us."
Do they need to though? Are they supposed to? I've been thinking about (what I think is?) the (or just a) point somewhere in here: that they're not genuine or personal enough for your liking and that they think of the phandom as one massive thing rather than individuals which comes off as dismissive on their part. If I'm not even in the ballpark of anything you're saying, whoops but that's fine, don't take anything that comes after this as being directed at you because it's touched on something that's been bothering me anyway and I'll just use this as a jumping-off point.
Before getting weird, I want to get into the 'not seeing fans as individuals' thing. I'll be completely predictable and turn to some crabstickz quotes:
1:08:30 "I really don’t understand why I resonate with young girls. It’s another reason why I don’t read comments; if I read a lot of the comments, it becomes very clear to me that all of my fans are young, usually high school girls. Now what that means is when I sit down to write another YT video, do I write it for myself, or do I write it with those fans in mind and think ‘ok well I’m not gonna swear, no I don’t think I’m gonna talk about existential spirituality, I think I’m gonna talk about Sherlock’. It’s a very subtle thing that YTers do, and I think I have watched my YT friends kind of slowly change their content over a period of years. Which, again, is good. It’s good to keep moving, but I think some people have decided to go with YT, you know? They’ve decided to say ‘a lot of people on YT are young, in high school, so I’m going to go with it’ whereas I tend to struggle all the time because I’m not fitting in."
[...] (chat) I think you’re generalizing [YT/audience]
“I do think I am generalizing, that’s one of the tricky things about talking about it. It’s kind of difficult not to generalize on YT because it is a numbers game. It’s hard not to generalize when I can’t really interact with you all individually, or would want to do that because that would be mental. Basically somebody said I’m generalizing too much, and I agree. I am. Which again, is just another complicated thing about trying to make YT work.”
1:22:30 (chat) Hasn’t your viewership evolved?
“Again, this is another problem with YT. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn’t. I don’t know, because I have no idea who my viewers are.”
All D&P see online is a constant outpouring of everything at them: jokes, art, praise, insults that may be jokes or not, sexual comments, sob stories, everything in between. They're just two people, it would be impossible to even attempt to respond or to view each comment as one separate thing coming from one distinguishable person with a specific personality and relationship to them. If that makes sense. And how do you engage with and talk to thousands of specific individuals in a way that acknowledges they are not just interchangeable branches growing out of one tree? Like in liveshows, Dan's addressing a bunch of people, some that are sending him crude sexual messages and referencing shit that should never have been their business, probably the same people who won't stop uploading it to YT or twitter and think it's funny (or straight up just to be cruel), some that are just asking about his day or oversharing their own struggles that he can't do anything about, and some just sending jokes or questions about music.
There's no real way to not see the phandom as a giant generalized mass, which I suppose is where meet&greets come in, but again, the sheer number of people make it an impossible task to really interact on a human level beyond the smallest of talk and gratitudes. In all encounters, they appear generous and polite (even when they shouldn't have to be.. ) and Dan makes a point of telling people they're valid etc. in liveshows. But really in what way could they be more engaging on a personal level or better acknowledge everyone as individuals? There's just too many people. And anyway, the main thing to me is: why do they need to? I don't know if it's harsh to say expecting more personalized interaction is entitled, but.. I'm saying it. Their jobs, as they have shaped them, is to put out entertaining content for people to consume. That some of that content is personal in the sense of sharing anecdotes about parts of their personal lives and experiences isn't some kind of contract that they need to share more, or should be expected to.
So many responses to their Singapore pics (and not just here) were along the line of 'it's so nice they're sharing this with us' and how great it is how comfortable they're getting 'with us' and that just doesn't ring quite right to me. (and disclaimer before I piss somebody off: this isn't a response to any specific poster/post, I'm just having a general ramble over here about my own opinions etc etc you do you). How about I frame this as a thought experiment to try to come off as less of an asshole. And how about I put it under a cut because nobody asked.
Thought experiment: We're The Worst.
We're a necessary evil. We buy and support their shit, watch their videos, feel like we know them a little bit and we (tend to) like a lot of what we feel like we know about them. But we're also creepy as fuck, annoying as fuck, nosy as fuck. For me personally, no amount of money in the world could make me cool with countless faceless strangers being disturbingly entitled to my private life, or any part of my life/thoughts/feelings beyond exactly what I chose to share. And yeah, that's just me. And of course #notallphandommembers are these things, but still more than enough to make it extremely easy to generalize. Generalizing, from D&P themselves or their YT peers or anybody, sucks but it's unavoidable and we all know that 'The Phandom' doesn't have a shitty reputation for nothing. Actually that's a whole other point: maybe it sucks that D&P generalize the phandom, but so does everybody? Even on this forum it pops up, people trying to say they don't consider themselves part of the phandom because it's so messy or whatever. Basically people don't want to be lumped in with the objectively shitty people that share the same interests, which is fair enough. But.. kind of impossible to do. But whatever, semantics for another time.
The idea of them lowering their walls and getting more open (or just less fucking tense. at. all. times) as evidence of comfort with us, sharing with us, how kind, how personal, maybe if we just smile and don't make any sudden movements to scare them off maybe they'll even share their engagement pics one day etc. I just. I don't see that perspective as very likely. It's not a show of love in some way, not to us, as if a closer look into their lives is a reward for being chill and we've reached a point in our relationship (as fans/creators) where they want to be more open "with us" because they're finally more comfortable. I mean I suppose it indicates some level of comfort that didn't always exist with their outward perception by others (so: us. but not just us), BUT I think that's mostly irrelevant to the bigger picture. That picture being their growing discomfort with the bullshit involved in all the hiding and obfuscating that they and we had all become accustomed to. The burden.
So yeah, it's nice that D&P are less closed off (at least up to a point, always), but I wouldn't say it's because they want to share fuck all with us, rather that they're sick of actively hiding something(s) that they're not ashamed of. Basically I think "they're so comfortable with us now" is verging on some self-congratulatory nonsense and the truth is closer to "they're fucking done with being so uncomfortable with us". And in the most respectful way possible, if anybody's response to that is 'it's their fault for being uncomfortable to begin with': it's not. and also: fuck off.
Hiding and lying about something are many worlds apart from not confirming something. And I'm happy they've made it to this point, because it must be a relief to loosen that iron grip over their actions and interactions, but then there's that larger picture again. I doubt they just woke up one day and said 'hey let's be more ourselves and worry less about how it looks, that sounds like a plan'. Since the Monster Pops video, probably before, they've made a noticeable effort to knock down some walls and adjust boundaries, and it's all about acclimating the audience to avoid (as much of a) potential shitstorm. Or maybe not even a shitstorm at this point, just any kind of overreaction generally.
If they're moving (is the 'if' necessary anymore idk), they've known for some time and started padding the landing for it. Whether it's a house or even just another apartment, moving together at this point (this point of being individually full of money) will look a certain way and frankly by then (by now? surely we're here already) there will be no more eyebrows left to raise, no need to question things as they just are. And the thing is, if they're bothering with the acclimating process, that means (imo) there's no giant bandaid they'll ever rip off, otherwise they would just do that. Confirming their relationship definitively and publicly in plain words would go far beyond their audience, they'd get all the gross leech YTers chiming in, gushing about how proud they are (or maybe even grosser ones saying they knew all along. it would be open season to get in on the attention and possible views with any gossip/'inside info'), they'd get normal well-meaning people gushing about how proud they are, what inspirations, all of that attention that anybody with any level of fame gets when they 'come out'. That's a conversation D&P separately and together don't seem to want on any level, it's not a conversation they'd willingly start around themselves.
Sooo they're left with what they're doing, which is whatever the fuck they want without caring anymore how it looks but also not defining what it looks like (because of that convo and attention they don't want). I'm not going to deem it positive or negative, it is what it is, but it being framed as a window they're opening for us has just been weirding me out. They chose this career, that's true, they could have chosen to do any number of other things that didn't implicitly invite a bunch of curious strangers into their lives, wanting details beyond what D&P want to share. That they're now verging on sharing slightly more about themselves, or just no longer choosing to actively hide so much (possibly an important distinction), feels more like them trying to not get mauled by a wild animal than offering an olive branch to their loving and accepting viewers. Like 'don't move too fast, don't give it a reason to attack'. Did this take too weird of a turn? I'm not above anything here, if I was them I would find my name-drop tallies super creepy, but I just don't connect to the overly rose-tinted interpretations of things they may or may not be doing and their possible motivations for them.
Like some people see those pics and think how nice it is they're comfortable sharing, and I'm over here thinking they're tossing raw meat to keep the animals at bay while they just try to get to where they're going unscathed. I'm really fun at parties btw. And obviously the pictures were fucking great and if a Singapore DITL happens I'll be flipping my shit along with everyone else, but damn I just don't envy all the garbage they have to put up with and tightropes they have to walk while appearing as unbothered as possible. It all seems pretty fucked up when you think about it too long. Which I have, and will stop now.
I love your eloquent post fancybum! I haven't been around long enough to even have such deep and complex thoughts, let alone write them out so coherently. Thank you!
Artdefines06 wrote:
Ah yes, the kangaroo suit. Somewhere in the archives here is a post crying about how awful they are and how they lie to us. The nice folks here assured me it was all in the name of comedy, because they are entertainers, and reminded me that they only "lied" in the video, but were quite truthful in the liveshow, and therefore it was ok. I have made peace with the idea that anything they do in front of the public in a video is in fact planned and rehearsed and acted. Gaming video intros are filmed after the fact, Phil always lost the last round of 7 sec challenge in Tatinof, and all men do is lie.
*I think this is why I think Dan always looks so uncomfortable in the beginning of collab's he does on Phils channel. In say a pinof or a baking vid they can edit the fck out of it and do it in little bits one at a time and there is a familar rhythem to it. But in one of the random amazing phil vids, like the australia one, I genuinly think Phil only gives Dan a general rundown of what is happening and expects him to just roll with it.
ie. I'm going to do an intro, then ask you your thoughts, then pull out the costume and you act all surprised, then i found some stuff about australia and you just react to it ok Go!
Which works well for Phil, but probably freaks Dan out a little lol. if he messes up it's more editing, you have to restart the dialogue which means it wont feel as authentic, blahda blahda.
And don't think Phil is an angel lol, he know wtf drop bears were, he just went with it. I would hate that video if it wasn't so darn adorable lol.
"all men do is lie" woah is this just some humour I'm missing out on? Of course Phil always has to lose the last round in TATINOF, they don't have two routes planned for the show.
I mean, as entertainers most humour is made up - you don't think every time a comedian tells a hilarious anecdote that it actually happened? Creating a joke like the kangaroo onesie is purely to entertain - if Dan was just like "yeah sure i'll get in the onesie" then it loses all comedic value and worth.
Like all comedians, youtubers begin videos with an outline regarding what they want to discuss, any key points they want to make, or any jokes they want to add - if we were provided with 100% natural, unscripted content then youtube videos would just be waffle with very few jokes. It's not like an entire video has a script, but without atleast a vague plan the video loses the key purpose viewers and potential audience's crave.
I think it was some humour you were missing out on, you guys are making the same point- that deppy pretend for the sake of entertainment, and that's Ok! The "all men do is lie" part is a joke.
Dan's pic is beautiful, I don't love it as much as the aquarium/silhouette pictures, I might have arty-pic overload. (It was trending on tumblr, though, so obviously people like it).
Put me in the camp of people who believe that deppy care about their audience, and are under zero obligation to immediately inform us where they are, there's nothing smug about it (I meant to type that last night before I went to sleep but I was too tired to put words together and now a lot of other people have said it).
We're a necessary evil. We buy and support their shit, watch their videos, feel like we know them a little bit and we (tend to) like a lot of what we feel like we know about them. But we're also creepy as fuck, annoying as fuck, nosy as fuck. For me personally, no amount of money in the world could make me cool with countless faceless strangers being disturbingly entitled to my private life, or any part of my life/thoughts/feelings beyond exactly what I chose to share. And yeah, that's just me. And of course #notallphandommembers are these things, but still more than enough to make it extremely easy to generalize. Generalizing, from D&P themselves or their YT peers or anybody, sucks but it's unavoidable and we all know that 'The Phandom' doesn't have a shitty reputation for nothing. Actually that's a whole other point: maybe it sucks that D&P generalize the phandom, but so does everybody? Even on this forum it pops up, people trying to say they don't consider themselves part of the phandom because it's so messy or whatever. Basically people don't want to be lumped in with the objectively shitty people that share the same interests, which is fair enough. But.. kind of impossible to do. But whatever, semantics for another time.
The idea of them lowering their walls and getting more open (or just less fucking tense. at. all. times) as evidence of comfort with us, sharing with us, how kind, how personal, maybe if we just smile and don't make any sudden movements to scare them off maybe they'll even share their engagement pics one day etc. I just. I don't see that perspective as very likely. It's not a show of love in some way, not to us, as if a closer look into their lives is a reward for being chill and we've reached a point in our relationship (as fans/creators) where they want to be more open "with us" because they're finally more comfortable. I mean I suppose it indicates some level of comfort that didn't always exist with their outward perception by others (so: us. but not just us), BUT I think that's mostly irrelevant to the bigger picture. That picture being their growing discomfort with the bullshit involved in all the hiding and obfuscating that they and we had all become accustomed to. The burden.
So yeah, it's nice that D&P are less closed off (at least up to a point, always), but I wouldn't say it's because they want to share fuck all with us, rather that they're sick of actively hiding something(s) that they're not ashamed of. Basically I think "they're so comfortable with us now" is verging on some self-congratulatory nonsense and the truth is closer to "they're fucking done with being so uncomfortable with us". And in the most respectful way possible, if anybody's response to that is 'it's their fault for being uncomfortable to begin with': it's not. and also: fuck off.
Hiding and lying about something are many worlds apart from not confirming something. And I'm happy they've made it to this point, because it must be a relief to loosen that iron grip over their actions and interactions, but then there's that larger picture again. I doubt they just woke up one day and said 'hey let's be more ourselves and worry less about how it looks, that sounds like a plan'. Since the Monster Pops video, probably before, they've made a noticeable effort to knock down some walls and adjust boundaries, and it's all about acclimating the audience to avoid (as much of a) potential shitstorm. Or maybe not even a shitstorm at this point, just any kind of overreaction generally.
If they're moving (is the 'if' necessary anymore idk), they've known for some time and started padding the landing for it. Whether it's a house or even just another apartment, moving together at this point (this point of being individually full of money) will look a certain way and frankly by then (by now? surely we're here already) there will be no more eyebrows left to raise, no need to question things as they just are. And the thing is, if they're bothering with the acclimating process, that means (imo) there's no giant bandaid they'll ever rip off, otherwise they would just do that. Confirming their relationship definitively and publicly in plain words would go far beyond their audience, they'd get all the gross leech YTers chiming in, gushing about how proud they are (or maybe even grosser ones saying they knew all along. it would be open season to get in on the attention and possible views with any gossip/'inside info'), they'd get normal well-meaning people gushing about how proud they are, what inspirations, all of that attention that anybody with any level of fame gets when they 'come out'. That's a conversation D&P separately and together don't seem to want on any level, it's not a conversation they'd willingly start around themselves.
Sooo they're left with what they're doing, which is whatever the fuck they want without caring anymore how it looks but also not defining what it looks like (because of that convo and attention they don't want). I'm not going to deem it positive or negative, it is what it is, but it being framed as a window they're opening for us has just been weirding me out. They chose this career, that's true, they could have chosen to do any number of other things that didn't implicitly invite a bunch of curious strangers into their lives, wanting details beyond what D&P want to share. That they're now verging on sharing slightly more about themselves, or just no longer choosing to actively hide so much (possibly an important distinction), feels more like them trying to not get mauled by a wild animal than offering an olive branch to their loving and accepting viewers. Like 'don't move too fast, don't give it a reason to attack'. Did this take too weird of a turn? I'm not above anything here, if I was them I would find my name-drop tallies super creepy, but I just don't connect to the overly rose-tinted interpretations of things they may or may not be doing and their possible motivations for them.
Like some people see those pics and think how nice it is they're comfortable sharing, and I'm over here thinking they're tossing raw meat to keep the animals at bay while they just try to get to where they're going unscathed. I'm really fun at parties btw. And obviously the pictures were fucking great and if a Singapore DITL happens I'll be flipping my shit along with everyone else, but damn I just don't envy all the garbage they have to put up with and tightropes they have to walk while appearing as unbothered as possible. It all seems pretty fucked up when you think about it too long. Which I have, and will stop now.
this. i would like to think they like us, and they certainly seem to have moments where they do, when they hear how they've changed lives or whatever, but tbh whether they like us or not doesn't matter. i think i said earlier that they've moved towards being more honest, but not more open, and that's the sort of thing you seem to be talking about. it's less 'we want you to know more about us' and more 'pretending is exhausting, we need to stop lying'. it would be cool if they decided they did want to "share" more with us (of course i would love more frequent vlogs and casual selfies) but that's so unlikely. people who genuinely believe we'll ever get something like a boyfriend tag or wedding photos are so out of it it's almost funny. they've spent nearly a decade trying to keep their actual life private;
that's not changing just because everyone 'accepts' them now or something. it's just not them.
Hello first time poster here! And probably my last since I prefer reading discussions. Some of you might remember from GG (used to thank a ton of posts).
Anyways this goes back to the ethics of fans approaching youtubers and I was wondering what your thoughts are on this video (warning: It's Trisha Paytas )
[Youtube]https://youtu.be/pPB5wS_RSWQ[/Youtube]
Here's another video if you need more context:
[Youtube]https://youtu.be/CaDEQcUBHnY[/Youtube]
Edit: I have no idea if that was embedded correctly soz
Artdefines06 wrote:
*btw the "attacked" part is a joke, pls don't start a convo about Dan being forced to do things, he's not really]
Yeah, I have noticed a big part of his danisnotonfire persona is pretending to not want to do things that he actually does want to do. For example he said in a ls that he bought the kangaroo suit, but then pretended Phil bought it and forced him to wear it in the "will dan and Phil survive Australia" vid.
[offtopic]speaking of oz, I just had my first tim tam. Yum! 5 out of 5.[/offtopic]
Dinof persona is a yandere confirmed
uglyamerican wrote:Continuing my commentary on Dan's style choices, I like the shirt > anyone track it down yet?
Celestial_Rose wrote:Hello first time poster here! And probably my last since I prefer reading discussions. Some of you might remember from GG (used to thank a ton of posts).
Anyways this goes back to the ethics of fans approaching youtubers and I was wondering what your thoughts are on this video (warning: It's Trisha Paytas )
Here's another video if you need more context:
Edit: I have no idea if that was embedded correctly soz
I think you need to use the [yt] tags instead of the [youtube] tags when you have shortlinks.
And hi!
Celestial_Rose wrote:Hello first time poster here! And probably my last since I prefer reading discussions. Some of you might remember from GG (used to thank a ton of posts).
Anyways this goes back to the ethics of fans approaching youtubers and I was wondering what your thoughts are on this video (warning: It's Trisha Paytas )
Here's another video if you need more context:
Edit: I have no idea if that was embedded correctly soz
fancybum thank you for that amazing post. I say yes yes yes to so many of the things you mentioned. Somewhat tangentially but also somewhat related, I also feel really weird when the fans always relate it back to for us - like they're doing things for us, they're being more open for us etc. - I think it presupposes a familiar relationship between content creator and audience which I'm afraid to say, just doesn't exist. Perhaps it existed when Phil had like 50 people watching him, but certainly not when he has millions watching. Yes, we call it a "community" but really it's large disparate groups of people watching the same two men - and those two men are distanced from the audience - they do their thing, make the videos that constitute their job, and that's it. I know it sounds terribly cruel and cold, but I do believe that there isn't that whole relationship between them and us so there isn't really a need to even see if they "care for their fans" because quite clearly, they simply can't, because of the sheer numbers. I don't think of a few million people as "individuals" because I just cannot conceive of that and I'll never know each one, and I think it's the same for them.
Quite simply as a viewer, they produce stuff that I like hence I watch them and in watching, support them and call myself a "fan" of them, but that's it. And that's the extent it probably is to them too - except that the fans expect and believe in a much closer relationship than that - a relationship that demands that they know where Deppy are like close friends and they know what they're up to all the time, which frankly is beyond the pale for me.
Just my thoughts! fancybum articulated everything so beautifully, I'm not sure I can even add on to that!
As always, I take too long typing something out so I end up repeating things or missing the bulk of a discussion, but here I go anyway.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but I feel like it's pretty easy to figure out what crosses a line by imagining yourself in the same situation... Would you be okay with someone stalking you? Obviously not, being stalked is uncomfortable at the least, possibly a bit scary as well depending on the person and the circumstances. Would you be fine with a stranger taking a video of you without your consent? Probably not, that would be invasive and uncomfortable. Does it make you uncomfortable when people expect you to have your picture taken? Honestly, I'd be surprised if there's anyone here who has felt comfortable with every picture ever taken of them. Would it feel good having someone only want to take a picture with you so they can brag about it later? Maybe it could give someone out there an ego boost, but I imagine most people would feel objectified, like they're some sort of human trophy.
On the other hand, would you feel okay with someone stopping you to chat for a minute because they enjoy your work after running into you by coincidence? I personally would be perfectly fine with that, as long the person were respectful and didn't make me feel pressured to do anything against my will. Basically just the boundaries you would set for a conversation with anyone after realizing you have some sort of connection or something in common.
Kinda on, kinda off topic since it's an example but it has to do with other youtubers. The other day my friend ran into Mitch and Greg from ASAPScience at the March for Science in Toronto. (Yes, I was incredibly jealous because I wanted to go but couldn't and I also would have loved to have met them.) She basically just introduced herself by saying she watches their videos, talked with them for a bit and (consensually) got her picture taken with them. Her mom who is a science teacher was with her and apparently spent a lot of time talking to Greg who is also qualified to be a teacher and wants to teach science like he did briefly before their channel took off whenever it comes to an end. This is a perfect example of how you can appropriately meet people you admire outside of a meet-and-greet setting in my opinion, since no boundaries were pushed and it was a positive encounter for everybody
Pretty much the same thing goes for how much they share with us. How much are you willing to share on the internet? Do you share stuff using your actual name and pictures of yourself? At what point would you share as much personal information as Dan and Phil do? What would you do if you had as many followers at the same level of intensity as they do? How would react to your personal information being shared against your wishes to all those followers? Being completely honest, I would probably handle everything very similarly to them, and if any different, just worse I suppose one might argue that circumstances are different because it's part of their job, but is it really? Of course interaction helps their careers, but only to an extent. It's unrealistic for anyone let alone someone with a large following to be entirely genuine as well as willing to share every aspect of their life at all times, and I really don't think it makes a difference just because their jobs are on the internet. If anything, not sharing every aspect of their lives only makes for more discussion which benefits them as long as they don't fall out of the sweet spot that keeps people interested.
fancybum wrote:
Thought experiment: We're The Worst.
We're a necessary evil. We buy and support their shit, watch their videos, feel like we know them a little bit and we (tend to) like a lot of what we feel like we know about them. But we're also creepy as fuck, annoying as fuck, nosy as fuck. For me personally, no amount of money in the world could make me cool with countless faceless strangers being disturbingly entitled to my private life, or any part of my life/thoughts/feelings beyond exactly what I chose to share. And yeah, that's just me. And of course #notallphandommembers are these things, but still more than enough to make it extremely easy to generalize. Generalizing, from D&P themselves or their YT peers or anybody, sucks but it's unavoidable and we all know that 'The Phandom' doesn't have a shitty reputation for nothing. Actually that's a whole other point: maybe it sucks that D&P generalize the phandom, but so does everybody? Even on this forum it pops up, people trying to say they don't consider themselves part of the phandom because it's so messy or whatever. Basically people don't want to be lumped in with the objectively shitty people that share the same interests, which is fair enough. But.. kind of impossible to do. But whatever, semantics for another time.
The idea of them lowering their walls and getting more open (or just less fucking tense. at. all. times) as evidence of comfort with us, sharing with us, how kind, how personal, maybe if we just smile and don't make any sudden movements to scare them off maybe they'll even share their engagement pics one day etc. I just. I don't see that perspective as very likely. It's not a show of love in some way, not to us, as if a closer look into their lives is a reward for being chill and we've reached a point in our relationship (as fans/creators) where they want to be more open "with us" because they're finally more comfortable. I mean I suppose it indicates some level of comfort that didn't always exist with their outward perception by others (so: us. but not just us), BUT I think that's mostly irrelevant to the bigger picture. That picture being their growing discomfort with the bullshit involved in all the hiding and obfuscating that they and we had all become accustomed to. The burden.
So yeah, it's nice that D&P are less closed off (at least up to a point, always), but I wouldn't say it's because they want to share fuck all with us, rather that they're sick of actively hiding something(s) that they're not ashamed of. Basically I think "they're so comfortable with us now" is verging on some self-congratulatory nonsense and the truth is closer to "they're fucking done with being so uncomfortable with us". And in the most respectful way possible, if anybody's response to that is 'it's their fault for being uncomfortable to begin with': it's not. and also: fuck off.
Hiding and lying about something are many worlds apart from not confirming something. And I'm happy they've made it to this point, because it must be a relief to loosen that iron grip over their actions and interactions, but then there's that larger picture again. I doubt they just woke up one day and said 'hey let's be more ourselves and worry less about how it looks, that sounds like a plan'. Since the Monster Pops video, probably before, they've made a noticeable effort to knock down some walls and adjust boundaries, and it's all about acclimating the audience to avoid (as much of a) potential shitstorm. Or maybe not even a shitstorm at this point, just any kind of overreaction generally.
If they're moving (is the 'if' necessary anymore idk), they've known for some time and started padding the landing for it. Whether it's a house or even just another apartment, moving together at this point (this point of being individually full of money) will look a certain way and frankly by then (by now? surely we're here already) there will be no more eyebrows left to raise, no need to question things as they just are. And the thing is, if they're bothering with the acclimating process, that means (imo) there's no giant bandaid they'll ever rip off, otherwise they would just do that. Confirming their relationship definitively and publicly in plain words would go far beyond their audience, they'd get all the gross leech YTers chiming in, gushing about how proud they are (or maybe even grosser ones saying they knew all along. it would be open season to get in on the attention and possible views with any gossip/'inside info'), they'd get normal well-meaning people gushing about how proud they are, what inspirations, all of that attention that anybody with any level of fame gets when they 'come out'. That's a conversation D&P separately and together don't seem to want on any level, it's not a conversation they'd willingly start around themselves.
Sooo they're left with what they're doing, which is whatever the fuck they want without caring anymore how it looks but also not defining what it looks like (because of that convo and attention they don't want). I'm not going to deem it positive or negative, it is what it is, but it being framed as a window they're opening for us has just been weirding me out. They chose this career, that's true, they could have chosen to do any number of other things that didn't implicitly invite a bunch of curious strangers into their lives, wanting details beyond what D&P want to share. That they're now verging on sharing slightly more about themselves, or just no longer choosing to actively hide so much (possibly an important distinction), feels more like them trying to not get mauled by a wild animal than offering an olive branch to their loving and accepting viewers. Like 'don't move too fast, don't give it a reason to attack'. Did this take too weird of a turn? I'm not above anything here, if I was them I would find my name-drop tallies super creepy, but I just don't connect to the overly rose-tinted interpretations of things they may or may not be doing and their possible motivations for them.
Like some people see those pics and think how nice it is they're comfortable sharing, and I'm over here thinking they're tossing raw meat to keep the animals at bay while they just try to get to where they're going unscathed. I'm really fun at parties btw. And obviously the pictures were fucking great and if a Singapore DITL happens I'll be flipping my shit along with everyone else, but damn I just don't envy all the garbage they have to put up with and tightropes they have to walk while appearing as unbothered as possible. It all seems pretty fucked up when you think about it too long. Which I have, and will stop now.
Wow, I'm not sure I can add to such a well-written post, but I'm going to try. With my mess of rhetorical questions, whether it actually came across or not, I definitely agree that we're a necessary evil. Although I believe it's largely not something we intentionally do, just inherent in the dynamic between all fans and creators. I doubt they'd be at ease with a couple million of the nicest people in the world as fans either. Anyone would find having millions of people basically breathing down their neck daunting, regardless how nice or harmless those people might be. But of course, the fans who are intense, entitled, disrespectful, etc. are going to stand out, and creators, outsiders and all fans alike aren't immune to making these generalizations, which certainly don't help anybody.
I couldn't agree more with the notion that they're simply becoming tired of being uncomfortable with us, which is likely why they're sharing more. It's not because their fans have changed any, but because it's easier to hand over a few things than to have people pry for them. I wouldn't put so much emphasis on people stating that they're sharing more with us since that's quite literally what they're doing, but if people are giving themselves a pat on the back and implying that Dan and Phil are doing it for us as some sort of reward, they definitely don't have the right idea.
Speaking of handing over a few things to protect the rest, I believe that's the only reason they would ever willingly make a statement about their relationship. Not that I think it will ever get to that, we'll probably just get increasingly more obvious actions until we find out in 5-10 years time that they have a child and at that point I can't imagine anyone doubting it. But I can see them "giving the people what they want" as a way of satiating people's curiosity, so they can live without people prying as much into their lives looking for an answer. Part of me really hopes they never do that for probably a combination of reasons that I can't pinpoint, but who knows
Onto less serious topics...
I will shamelessly continue to love Dan's recent Instagram photos and Phil's photography skills I really wish he would use one of these for his profile pictures, I don't know why he gets stuck on such boring pictures when he has so many good options.
And an applause for the creators of the survey, the one in 2015 was great and I'm already excited to see the results for this year
and now off to bed because I stayed up until 5am again
Do they need to though? Are they supposed to? I've been thinking about (what I think is?) the (or just a) point somewhere in here: that they're not genuine or personal enough for your liking and that they think of the phandom as one massive thing rather than individuals which comes off as dismissive on their part. If I'm not even in the ballpark of anything you're saying, whoops but that's fine, don't take anything that comes after this as being directed at you because it's touched on something that's been bothering me anyway and I'll just use this as a jumping-off point.
Before getting weird, I want to get into the 'not seeing fans as individuals' thing. I'll be completely predictable and turn to some crabstickz quotes:
1:08:30 "I really don’t understand why I resonate with young girls. It’s another reason why I don’t read comments; if I read a lot of the comments, it becomes very clear to me that all of my fans are young, usually high school girls. Now what that means is when I sit down to write another YT video, do I write it for myself, or do I write it with those fans in mind and think ‘ok well I’m not gonna swear, no I don’t think I’m gonna talk about existential spirituality, I think I’m gonna talk about Sherlock’. It’s a very subtle thing that YTers do, and I think I have watched my YT friends kind of slowly change their content over a period of years. Which, again, is good. It’s good to keep moving, but I think some people have decided to go with YT, you know? They’ve decided to say ‘a lot of people on YT are young, in high school, so I’m going to go with it’ whereas I tend to struggle all the time because I’m not fitting in."
[...] (chat) I think you’re generalizing [YT/audience]
“I do think I am generalizing, that’s one of the tricky things about talking about it. It’s kind of difficult not to generalize on YT because it is a numbers game. It’s hard not to generalize when I can’t really interact with you all individually, or would want to do that because that would be mental. Basically somebody said I’m generalizing too much, and I agree. I am. Which again, is just another complicated thing about trying to make YT work.”
1:22:30 (chat) Hasn’t your viewership evolved?
“Again, this is another problem with YT. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn’t. I don’t know, because I have no idea who my viewers are.”
All D&P see online is a constant outpouring of everything at them: jokes, art, praise, insults that may be jokes or not, sexual comments, sob stories, everything in between. They're just two people, it would be impossible to even attempt to respond or to view each comment as one separate thing coming from one distinguishable person with a specific personality and relationship to them. If that makes sense. And how do you engage with and talk to thousands of specific individuals in a way that acknowledges they are not just interchangeable branches growing out of one tree? Like in liveshows, Dan's addressing a bunch of people, some that are sending him crude sexual messages and referencing shit that should never have been their business, probably the same people who won't stop uploading it to YT or twitter and think it's funny (or straight up just to be cruel), some that are just asking about his day or oversharing their own struggles that he can't do anything about, and some just sending jokes or questions about music.
There's no real way to not see the phandom as a giant generalized mass, which I suppose is where meet&greets come in, but again, the sheer number of people make it an impossible task to really interact on a human level beyond the smallest of talk and gratitudes. In all encounters, they appear generous and polite (even when they shouldn't have to be.. ) and Dan makes a point of telling people they're valid etc. in liveshows. But really in what way could they be more engaging on a personal level or better acknowledge everyone as individuals? There's just too many people. And anyway, the main thing to me is: why do they need to? I don't know if it's harsh to say expecting more personalized interaction is entitled, but.. I'm saying it. Their jobs, as they have shaped them, is to put out entertaining content for people to consume. That some of that content is personal in the sense of sharing anecdotes about parts of their personal lives and experiences isn't some kind of contract that they need to share more, or should be expected to.
So many responses to their Singapore pics (and not just here) were along the line of 'it's so nice they're sharing this with us' and how great it is how comfortable they're getting 'with us' and that just doesn't ring quite right to me. (and disclaimer before I piss somebody off: this isn't a response to any specific poster/post, I'm just having a general ramble over here about my own opinions etc etc you do you). How about I frame this as a thought experiment to try to come off as less of an asshole. And how about I put it under a cut because nobody asked.
Thought experiment: We're The Worst.
We're a necessary evil. We buy and support their shit, watch their videos, feel like we know them a little bit and we (tend to) like a lot of what we feel like we know about them. But we're also creepy as fuck, annoying as fuck, nosy as fuck. For me personally, no amount of money in the world could make me cool with countless faceless strangers being disturbingly entitled to my private life, or any part of my life/thoughts/feelings beyond exactly what I chose to share. And yeah, that's just me. And of course #notallphandommembers are these things, but still more than enough to make it extremely easy to generalize. Generalizing, from D&P themselves or their YT peers or anybody, sucks but it's unavoidable and we all know that 'The Phandom' doesn't have a shitty reputation for nothing. Actually that's a whole other point: maybe it sucks that D&P generalize the phandom, but so does everybody? Even on this forum it pops up, people trying to say they don't consider themselves part of the phandom because it's so messy or whatever. Basically people don't want to be lumped in with the objectively shitty people that share the same interests, which is fair enough. But.. kind of impossible to do. But whatever, semantics for another time.
The idea of them lowering their walls and getting more open (or just less fucking tense. at. all. times) as evidence of comfort with us, sharing with us, how kind, how personal, maybe if we just smile and don't make any sudden movements to scare them off maybe they'll even share their engagement pics one day etc. I just. I don't see that perspective as very likely. It's not a show of love in some way, not to us, as if a closer look into their lives is a reward for being chill and we've reached a point in our relationship (as fans/creators) where they want to be more open "with us" because they're finally more comfortable. I mean I suppose it indicates some level of comfort that didn't always exist with their outward perception by others (so: us. but not just us), BUT I think that's mostly irrelevant to the bigger picture. That picture being their growing discomfort with the bullshit involved in all the hiding and obfuscating that they and we had all become accustomed to. The burden.
So yeah, it's nice that D&P are less closed off (at least up to a point, always), but I wouldn't say it's because they want to share fuck all with us, rather that they're sick of actively hiding something(s) that they're not ashamed of. Basically I think "they're so comfortable with us now" is verging on some self-congratulatory nonsense and the truth is closer to "they're fucking done with being so uncomfortable with us". And in the most respectful way possible, if anybody's response to that is 'it's their fault for being uncomfortable to begin with': it's not. and also: fuck off.
Hiding and lying about something are many worlds apart from not confirming something. And I'm happy they've made it to this point, because it must be a relief to loosen that iron grip over their actions and interactions, but then there's that larger picture again. I doubt they just woke up one day and said 'hey let's be more ourselves and worry less about how it looks, that sounds like a plan'. Since the Monster Pops video, probably before, they've made a noticeable effort to knock down some walls and adjust boundaries, and it's all about acclimating the audience to avoid (as much of a) potential shitstorm. Or maybe not even a shitstorm at this point, just any kind of overreaction generally.
If they're moving (is the 'if' necessary anymore idk), they've known for some time and started padding the landing for it. Whether it's a house or even just another apartment, moving together at this point (this point of being individually full of money) will look a certain way and frankly by then (by now? surely we're here already) there will be no more eyebrows left to raise, no need to question things as they just are. And the thing is, if they're bothering with the acclimating process, that means (imo) there's no giant bandaid they'll ever rip off, otherwise they would just do that. Confirming their relationship definitively and publicly in plain words would go far beyond their audience, they'd get all the gross leech YTers chiming in, gushing about how proud they are (or maybe even grosser ones saying they knew all along. it would be open season to get in on the attention and possible views with any gossip/'inside info'), they'd get normal well-meaning people gushing about how proud they are, what inspirations, all of that attention that anybody with any level of fame gets when they 'come out'. That's a conversation D&P separately and together don't seem to want on any level, it's not a conversation they'd willingly start around themselves.
Sooo they're left with what they're doing, which is whatever the fuck they want without caring anymore how it looks but also not defining what it looks like (because of that convo and attention they don't want). I'm not going to deem it positive or negative, it is what it is, but it being framed as a window they're opening for us has just been weirding me out. They chose this career, that's true, they could have chosen to do any number of other things that didn't implicitly invite a bunch of curious strangers into their lives, wanting details beyond what D&P want to share. That they're now verging on sharing slightly more about themselves, or just no longer choosing to actively hide so much (possibly an important distinction), feels more like them trying to not get mauled by a wild animal than offering an olive branch to their loving and accepting viewers. Like 'don't move too fast, don't give it a reason to attack'. Did this take too weird of a turn? I'm not above anything here, if I was them I would find my name-drop tallies super creepy, but I just don't connect to the overly rose-tinted interpretations of things they may or may not be doing and their possible motivations for them.
Like some people see those pics and think how nice it is they're comfortable sharing, and I'm over here thinking they're tossing raw meat to keep the animals at bay while they just try to get to where they're going unscathed. I'm really fun at parties btw. And obviously the pictures were fucking great and if a Singapore DITL happens I'll be flipping my shit along with everyone else, but damn I just don't envy all the garbage they have to put up with and tightropes they have to walk while appearing as unbothered as possible. It all seems pretty fucked up when you think about it too long. Which I have, and will stop now.
A+ post. It was interesting to read your post that rationalized deppy's approach and found the "gray" area, where you consider both their choice to be more open and how things would still be restricted, for obvious reasons. I do think a lot of their actions online are to "give us scraps" that I admit, and are their duties as entertainers. I think my general issue is less to do with their reasons, and more that relationship between audience and creator, but that's only my viewpoint, other are a lot more ideal. In my approach, I was coming from a very negative angle, that did not consider any other aspects in great detail, and why many people did not personally relate to my approach as it was not something they considered, or did not just agree with at all. Let's just leave the argument for now, I just gave up when posts touched on "holy-than-thou" attitude.
000dia000 wrote:
A+ post. It was interesting to read your post that rationalized deppy's approach and found the "gray" area, where you consider both their choice to be more open and how things would still be restricted, for obvious reasons. I do think a lot of their actions online are to "give us scraps" that I admit, and are their duties as entertainers. I think my general issue is less to do with their reasons, and more that relationship between audience and creator, but that's only my viewpoint, other are a lot more ideal. In my approach, I was coming from a very negative angle, that did not consider any other aspects in great detail, and why many people did not personally relate to my approach as it was not something they considered, or did not just agree with at all. Let's just leave the argument for now, I just gave up when posts touched on "holy-than-thou" attitude.
I mean I'm coming from a pretty negative angle too lol, we're just focusing it in different directions. Your negativity is more on D&P and mine is more on the audience, but hey we're all terrible in our own ways and I think both sides (D&P and the giant amorphous 'us') are just hoping that the good outweighs the bad at the end of the day. And obviously that'll be subjective with everybody, nobody needs to enjoy/see things the same way, that would be a boring hivemind, so meh. More negativity, I say.
kalli wrote:I couldn't agree more with the notion that they're simply becoming tired of being uncomfortable with us, which is likely why they're sharing more. It's not because their fans have changed any, but because it's easier to hand over a few things than to have people pry for them. I wouldn't put so much emphasis on people stating that they're sharing more with us since that's quite literally what they're doing, but if people are giving themselves a pat on the back and implying that Dan and Phil are doing it for us as some sort of reward, they definitely don't have the right idea.
Yeah that's definitely the distinction I was badly trying to make. I know their social media is largely about posting things to connect to their audience, but it's also peers and friends (well maybe to a much lesser degree since they've also got private accounts on at least FB) and also just themselves. Like the aquarium selfie of the two of them: great picture yes, definitely more intimate than a picture of a giant cookie over a face, but also just a nice shot to remember a moment in time. So was the decision to put it up for everyone to see more of 'you know who would love this? our viewers. they deserve it' or 'wow I'm having a great time and we look great, I'm posting this shit' ( at Phil ever saying that sentence)? I mean it doesn't really matter, they posted it either way. But fans making it more about them somehow just makes me think of that Ken doll comment more and more, like some viewers (#notall) just want to play house with D&P. It's just another side of the 'seeing D&P as props' thing that came up with the polite stalking video. Does that even seem related? It makes sense in my head, maybe not so much here. ANYWAY.
VengefulBlue wrote:
this. i would like to think they like us, and they certainly seem to have moments where they do, when they hear how they've changed lives or whatever, but tbh whether they like us or not doesn't matter. i think i said earlier that they've moved towards being more honest, but not more open, and that's the sort of thing you seem to be talking about. it's less 'we want you to know more about us' and more 'pretending is exhausting, we need to stop lying'. it would be cool if they decided they did want to "share" more with us (of course i would love more frequent vlogs and casual selfies) but that's so unlikely. people who genuinely believe we'll ever get something like a boyfriend tag or wedding photos are so out of it it's almost funny. they've spent nearly a decade trying to keep their actual life private;
that's not changing just because everyone 'accepts' them now or something. it's just not them.
flurry wrote:I think it presupposes a familiar relationship between content creator and audience which I'm afraid to say, just doesn't exist. Perhaps it existed when Phil had like 50 people watching him, but certainly not when he has millions watching. Yes, we call it a "community" but really it's large disparate groups of people watching the same two men - and those two men are distanced from the audience - they do their thing, make the videos that constitute their job, and that's it. I know it sounds terribly cruel and cold, but I do believe that there isn't that whole relationship between them and us so there isn't really a need to even see if they "care for their fans" because quite clearly, they simply can't, because of the sheer numbers. I don't think of a few million people as "individuals" because I just cannot conceive of that and I'll never know each one, and I think it's the same for them.
I'm very excited for whatever we might get today. Maybe it'll be a liveshow or maybe it'll be a video. Is it bad that I am hoping for news/info about their whereabouts?
Y'all have a lengthy discussion about respecting deppy and accepting not knowing where they are and I'm over here like:
I just can't help it. I'm very very curious as to where they are. Probably because I live vicariously through their travels.
) and Dan makes a point of telling people they're valid etc. in liveshows. But really in what way could they be more engaging on a personal level or better acknowledge everyone as individuals? There's just too many people. And anyway, the main thing to me is: why do they need to? I don't know if it's harsh to say expecting more personalized interaction is entitled, but.. I'm saying it. Their jobs, as they have shaped them, is to put out entertaining content for people to consume. That some of that content is personal in the sense of sharing anecdotes about parts of their personal lives and experiences isn't some kind of contract that they need to share more, or should be expected to.
