Dan & Phil Part 46: Some kind of a gay backstory

[fancy_nancy]

Really excited about the new vid, can't wait to watch it!!
First time I watched d&p I don't remember the year but it was when Dan did that video with the harries twins, bc I watched a lot of gleamers (blerghhh ) back then. Funny thing is I did not like d&p back then, I watched some of their videos and was like nope and I didn't join the phandom until late 2015.

[VengefulBlue]

I am a year younger than Phil and was semi in the 'scene' and also quite into YT between 2006 - 2010, which is when boys flirting with each other for attention seemed most prevalent (to me). It was definitely a trend, and honestly most of the time (I felt) it was done for the attention of teenage girls - either to get them to fancy the boys in question (as the guys at my school did), or to get a bit of a 'following' (as guys in local bands in my area who wanted to be MySpace famous did). To my shame, as a teenager I think I even followed a MySpace page which was called 'emo boys kissing' or something, and it was literally just pictures of boys with the same dress sense and hairstyles as D&P making out, with the implication they were bi/straight - because that was part of what was attractive about it.

Right when I found D&P - and I watched them casually from 2007ish to 2015 before becoming a proper fan - they very much gave off that vibe to me. I disagree with the poster who said they seemed more genuine than other boys doing the same thing. To me they really were just another two guys flirting for the cameras to build a YT following. That's what the PINOFs gave off, that's what their early twitter interactions, etc. gave off to me, and honestly, I've never seen voldy, but given the kind of... internet culture of the time I can sort of see how it might have been a bad joke they decided not to go ahead with (not saying I believe this necessarily - just saying I see how they might have thought it was a plausible excuse)

(bold is mine)

definitely a lot of my perspective might be influenced by my age at the time: i was 13 in 2009, so my seeing them as more "genuine" in their flirting might have just been due to them being better at flirting then my friends were.

as for voldy, i didn't see it until about a month ago, and given the tone and content, i don't think it's real. nowadays i look back at most of their old stuff and wonder if it was the "bi is popular" thing, or if it was genuine. there's definitely a certain amount of true joy in the first pinof, but that could just be "wow i get to hang out with my friend finally". but idk, it's interesting to think about whether my instincts were right as a young kid, and they really were hiding in plain sight like i was, thanks to the weird cultural thing that was happening.

[alittledizzy]

The thing about the whole emo scene being full of guys who acted bisexual/queer because it was a trend... is that neither Dan or Phil were in that group. The people they associated with in the youtube sphere at that time were either categorically straight (PJ, Bryony) or actually queer (basically everyone else - Stephen, Charlie, Jimmy, Chris, Teoh, John - who Phil visited in NYC in 2008, and Dan and Phil are both still friends with - I could go on but the list of names will get less and less recognizable for newer fans so I'll stop there).

There is no context for Dan and Phil being in a group of guys who just 'acted bisexual' for attention. There is context for them socializing and presumably being friends with a very queer niche of youtubers at the time.

[Lain]

[offtopic]
I am a year younger than Phil and was semi in the 'scene' and also quite into YT between 2006 - 2010, which is when boys flirting with each other for attention seemed most prevalent (to me). It was definitely a trend, and honestly most of the time (I felt) it was done for the attention of teenage girls - either to get them to fancy the boys in question (as the guys at my school did), or to get a bit of a 'following' (as guys in local bands in my area who wanted to be MySpace famous did).

I disagree with the poster who said they seemed more genuine than other boys doing the same thing. To me they really were just another two guys flirting for the cameras to build a YT following. That's what the PINOFs gave off, that's what their early twitter interactions, etc. gave off to me, and honestly, I've never seen voldy, but given the kind of... internet culture of the time I can sort of see how it might have been a bad joke they decided not to go ahead with (not saying I believe this necessarily - just saying I see how they might have thought it was a plausible excuse).

I agree that some of their behavior could arguably be written off in the way that you mentioned, but when I look at the whole picture - all of their social media interactions (not just whatever people perceived as flirting for attention ((dailybooth maybe? PINOFs I guess?)) - examples: "we were busy being happy", Dan agreeing that it is indeed hard being away from "the one", or this, posted from Phil's house:

, it's difficult for me to reduce their interactions/relationship to something meant only to build a following (Phil already had quite a large one) or to attract girls (lol).

[onetruetrash]

as for voldy, i didn't see it until about a month ago, and given the tone and content, i don't think it's real. nowadays i look back at most of their old stuff and wonder if it was the "bi is popular" thing, or if it was genuine. there's definitely a certain amount of true joy in the first pinof, but that could just be "wow i get to hang out with my friend finally". but idk, it's interesting to think about whether my instincts were right as a young kid, and they really were hiding in plain sight like i was, thanks to the weird cultural thing that was happening.

Wait, what makes you think it's not real? I mean, everything in the video is accurate down to the clothes and talks about things people wouldn't even pick up on until years later. And how does that explain Dan's angry reaction that was shocking even by 2012 standards? Why would Phil make a joke about having sex with him? That's just not in Phil's character.

As far as them pretending to be bi for attention, I think alittledizzy said it best. Dan and Phil weren't even in that crowd, at least in their 2009 days.

[VengefulBlue]

The thing about the whole emo scene being full of guys who acted bisexual/queer because it was a trend... is that neither Dan or Phil were in that group. ... There is no context for Dan and Phil being in a group of guys who just 'acted bisexual' for attention. There is context for them socializing and presumably being friends with a very queer niche of youtubers at the time.

yeah i really meant 'alternative' in a generic sense, which they may not have actually been a part of, but were associated with nonetheless (see "die emo scum"). but my original point was that at the time, the "bi but not really" thing was a thing that was happening. i don't think that was the case with them, but it's an important aspect of understanding the early videos in accurate historical context. i think them being friends with loads of queer folks kind of supports the idea that they weren't "acting bisexual for attention", cuz those friends would presumably call them out for that.
i sound like i'm flip-flopping, but really i'm just inarticulate and aware of my own unawareness

edit: on voldy, i think it seems too rehearsed and flat. phil is a pretty emotive guy, and there's not much tone or facial expression to convince me that he's genuinely sharing lovely memories with his lover as a valentine's present. as for the pictures, i find it suspect that there wouldn't be any best memories that they hadn't mentioned on their public social media. idk, maybe it is real, but the video itself isn't very believable to me. i'm a phan believer, but not because of voldy or even their earliest vids, rather because of how they act in more recent vids.

[captainspacecoat]

Sending lots of love to Waggle9007, blackdenim and anyone else directly affected by what happened yesterday, I hope everyone is okay

Came here to say pretty much exactly what alittledizzy said.

I was 13 in 2009 and my best friend was in with the scene crowd, so I used to hang out with them quite a bit. I do remember bisexuality being a common thing among the girls in that group (I went to an all-girls school, and being anything other than straight was taboo in most circles), but as far as I'm aware most of them still identify as queer to this day, so while at the time it was presented as a component of fitting in with scene culture I'd guess it was actually quite authentic, it was just easier to pretend they were playing up female-attraction for the sake of fitting in.

I think if following on from 2009/2010 dnp had changed tune and consistently showed no sign of being anything other than straight to the point where they still appeared to be straight to this day then maybe I could believe their behaviour back then was in line with the """"bi trend""". However, given that they (especially Dan, but I would argue Phil as well albeit to a lesser/more subtle extent) seem to be pretty actively attempting to be read as non-straight I think the simpler explanation is that their interactions back then were authentic. As dizzy said, many of their friends back then were genuinely gay or bi, and as others have pointed out many of their early online interactions were on such a small scale (e.g. dailybooth comments that had subtle romantic implications rather than anything on a grand scale that they could have done such as kissing in a youtube video or something).

Basically, their early interactions with each other are pretty consistent with the way they interact in 2017, so it would make more sense to me that they were authentic.

edit: on voldy, i think it seems too rehearsed and flat. phil is a pretty emotive guy, and there's not much tone or facial expression to convince me that he's genuinely sharing lovely memories with his lover as a valentine's present. as for the pictures, i find it suspect that there wouldn't be any best memories that they hadn't mentioned on their public social media. idk, maybe it is real, but the video itself isn't very believable to me. i'm a phan believer, but not because of voldy or even their earliest vids, rather because of how they act in more recent vids.

There were several memories that hadn't been mentioned publicly though as far as I'm aware - there's no evidence either of them ever mentioned going on the Manchester Wheel, for instance. The abandoned hospital memory, "woke you up and said Mario", several other intimate details that I'm pretty sure they'd never mentioned before. Not saying it was definitely real or anything (although I am biased as I think it's real haha), but I do think there were definitely personal details that neither of them had ever tweeted about as far as I'm aware.

[VengefulBlue]

looking back on my original post

so as a young kid in that same sort of social circle, i saw them as just like me: the queer kid who could get away with flirting in public because acting vaguely queer was a fad at the time.

i think we're mostly agreeing here. the difference seems to mostly be whether we were in fact in that 'same sort of social circle', but in 2009 i definitely thought we were.

voldy: if those things (wheel, hospital, mario) actually weren't posted anywhere, that changes my opinion. i thought they were. i stand by my statement that he doesn't seem very emotive, but also i know that could have been for a million reasons. and now a question- what's the significance of the song in the background?

[alittledizzy]

edit: on voldy, i think it seems too rehearsed and flat. phil is a pretty emotive guy, and there's not much tone or facial expression to convince me that he's genuinely sharing lovely memories with his lover as a valentine's present. as for the pictures, i find it suspect that there wouldn't be any best memories that they hadn't mentioned on their public social media. idk, maybe it is real, but the video itself isn't very believable to me. i'm a phan believer, but not because of voldy or even their earliest vids, rather because of how they act in more recent vids.

I'm gonna skip over the whole debate on facts of the video. The events described were true, but not advertised by Dan or Phil, certainly not things that Dan or Phil had called any attention to as if they were seeding stuff. No one knew the wheel had any significance to Phil until he tweeted about it being taken down, the abandoned hospital was easily found via google but never talked about by them, etc. Other people have laid out those arguments with more research into it than me and if you're curious then I'm sure people can supply the links.

In response to him not being emotive - have you seen oqua's compilation of Phil using his 'natural' voice? Because... it is fairly the same as in voldy. Phil is emotive for the camera, when he's slipping into performer role - he does not seem to be nearly as emotive when he's talking directly to someone else or unaware he's being filmed.

[onetruetrash]

voldy: if those things (wheel, hospital, mario) actually weren't posted anywhere, that changes my opinion. i thought they were. i stand by my statement that he doesn't seem very emotive, but also i know that could have been for a million reasons. and now a question- what's the significance of the song in the background?

Is there a significance to the song in the background? I thought it was just random background music.

[thephandommenace]

looking back on my original post

so as a young kid in that same sort of social circle, i saw them as just like me: the queer kid who could get away with flirting in public because acting vaguely queer was a fad at the time.

i think we're mostly agreeing here. the difference seems to mostly be whether we were in fact in that 'same sort of social circle', but in 2009 i definitely thought we were.

voldy: if those things (wheel, hospital, mario) actually weren't posted anywhere, that changes my opinion. i thought they were. i stand by my statement that he doesn't seem very emotive, but also i know that could have been for a million reasons. and now a question- what's the significance of the song in the background?

The background song and the ending song are both from the original FFVII OST. I can't remember the name of the background song (edit: it's "Tifa's Theme") but the ending song is called "Holding All My Thoughts In My Heart". That's partly what convinced me the video was real. (Though they've used FFVII music in so many of their videos.)
Mod question: is this too personal to be posting on the forum?

I agree with what dizzy said. If it was real I doubt he'd be putting on his animated AP persona for something so personal.

[VengefulBlue]

yeah, the natural voice thing occurred to me as i was typing. i don't know how else to phrase it, i mostly meant that it sounded too scripted.

but i'm gonna back down here and say sure, voldy's 100% real and the emo scene had nothing to do with them. i usually am all for discussion, and i really only brought it up to give context to the story of how i found them, and my voldy comments were in context of someone saying they'd not seen it but think it's fake. but it's getting to that point where it's feeling like less of a discussion and more of a "who's the most right" contest (hint: unless one of us is secretly dan or phil, none of us really knows). i'm sure that isn't anyone's intent, so i'm just gonna extract myself from this until something else happens that doesn't involve me or my opinions.

[Elemancy]

[offtopic]
I am a year younger than Phil and was semi in the 'scene' and also quite into YT between 2006 - 2010, which is when boys flirting with each other for attention seemed most prevalent (to me). It was definitely a trend, and honestly most of the time (I felt) it was done for the attention of teenage girls - either to get them to fancy the boys in question (as the guys at my school did), or to get a bit of a 'following' (as guys in local bands in my area who wanted to be MySpace famous did).

I disagree with the poster who said they seemed more genuine than other boys doing the same thing. To me they really were just another two guys flirting for the cameras to build a YT following. That's what the PINOFs gave off, that's what their early twitter interactions, etc. gave off to me, and honestly, I've never seen voldy, but given the kind of... internet culture of the time I can sort of see how it might have been a bad joke they decided not to go ahead with (not saying I believe this necessarily - just saying I see how they might have thought it was a plausible excuse).

I agree that some of their behavior could arguably be written off in the way that you mentioned, but when I look at the whole picture - all of their social media interactions (not just whatever people perceived as flirting for attention ((dailybooth maybe? PINOFs I guess?)) - examples: "we were busy being happy", Dan agreeing that it is indeed hard being away from "the one", or this, posted from Phil's house:

, it's difficult for me to reduce their interactions/relationship to something meant only to build a following (Phil already had quite a large one) or to attract girls (lol).

Straying from the relevant topic for a moment to just comment on that included screenshot above and how it exemplifies one of the things I love most about Dan, which is this depth of compassion and empathy he exhibits for many things and in how he chooses to express himself. When he becomes passionate about topics, music or people he's extremely motivated to learn every iota about it, to understand its significance, to then communicate that passion with others in an attempt to get them to feel a bit of what he's feeling in the moment as well, especially when it's a positive feeling. With the above post as a case in point where he feels loved and blissful and is attempting to translate that feeling by urging people to listen to a favorite song featuring lyrics that resonate with him on a personal level. After some of his LS I'll read comments that wonder if maybe his tone on certain subjects was more pedantic or pretentious than intended, like he's talking down to the audience, but I always get the personal impression he's trying to instill an interest in things which move him in the hopes it'll move the audience too, give them a new perspective on something they may not have considered before out of a wish for them to enjoy and learn rather than shaming them for not knowing as much as he does. Or it's just how I see him anyway, but I really do admire how intrinsically thoughtful he is in most everything he says or does. I wish I could cite other examples to show, but for right now the above screenshot is good enough to demonstrate what I mean.

There's the playful banter and ironic jokes throughout his videos which I enjoy too, along with certain sign off's in his LS where I'd wonder if there wasn't a fair bit of sarcasm included with his wishes for the audience to "'stay hydrated and meditate" etc. but there's moments where he'll say something in a way which is so specifically motivating or kind without being disingenuous about it at all and it honestly makes me appreciate him very much. I don't know if it's because my own personal experiences have been so full of bad interactions with strangers and family that these moments stand out the most for me, like I'm giving him praise for something rare when it should be commonplace, but listening to him talk sometimes is like a breath of fresh air so different from what I've been used to that it leaves more of an impact on me than it probably might otherwise do. It's an overall positive hopeful feeling that I'm glad his many other subscribers have the opportunity to experience for themselves too, because with a platform where he has the exposure and freedom to say and do as he pleases no matter how potentially harmful, he chooses to be who he is right now instead. Give me enough time and I'll wax poetic for pages about Phil too, but seeing that pic made me fixate on Dan for the moment.


tl;dr: it's late, I don't know what I'm saying and it's all subjective anyway, but I really do appreciate daniel howell


also I was drinking tea and just now noticed one of my small votive candles had fallen into the bottom of my cup when I set it down earlier by a shelf to steep, so maybe it's because i just essentially drank brewed "dark coconut scented yankee candle" that I went on this tangent.

[fancybum]

yeah, the natural voice thing occurred to me as i was typing. i don't know how else to phrase it, i mostly meant that it sounded too scripted.

but i'm gonna back down here and say sure, voldy's 100% real and the emo scene had nothing to do with them. i usually am all for discussion, and i really only brought it up to give context to the story of how i found them, and my voldy comments were in context of someone saying they'd not seen it but think it's fake. but it's getting to that point where it's feeling like less of a discussion and more of a "who's the most right" contest (hint: unless one of us is secretly dan or phil, none of us really knows). i'm sure that isn't anyone's intent, so i'm just gonna extract myself from this until something else happens that doesn't involve me or my opinions.

Where'd cherrybomb3 run off to, he could probably settle this once and for all..

Don't feel the need to back down or keep your opinions to yourself! There are plenty of other people lurking about who also think it's fake/seems too scripted/etc.

Them right now:

no offense, I had to

This is a touchy area because if the vid's not real, then that potentially reflects pretty poorly on D&P's characters at the time (or any time) and raises a lot of uncomfortable questions (that have been gone over a lot already, I'm personally not interested in rehashing all the what-ifs, but you can imagine). Whereas it being real seems to (if you're a believer of other things about them, wink wink etc) fit more comfortably with most of the other available information, so entertaining the opposite option (at least from my perspective, I obvs can't speak for where everybody else might be coming from) is entertaining the idea of D&P being quite different people (in not a great way) than I'd like to believe. Also, in terms of how close they still are to this day, a video like that doesn't fit comfortably as just a prank? It would be a weird little aberration for sure. But that's just another opinion (and maybe explains what might be coming off as defensiveness in other responses, since the question 'fake or real?' is just the the tip of the iceberg of what that video might represent, if that makes sense. Defending the video being real is defending D&P being the people I think they are, and by extension my own judge of character or whatever. Is it all Not That Deep? idk).

edit: Gnosia, that post was like a beautiful brain massage to read

[anime_is_not_cool]

Straying from the relevant topic for a moment to just comment on that included screenshot above and how it exemplifies one of the things I love most about Dan, which is this depth of compassion and empathy he exhibits for many things and in how he chooses to express himself. When he becomes passionate about topics, music or people he's extremely motivated to learn every iota about it, to understand its significance, to then communicate that passion with others in an attempt to get them to feel a bit of what he's feeling in the moment as well, especially when it's a positive feeling. With the above post as a case in point where he feels loved and blissful and is attempting to translate that feeling by urging people to listen to a favorite song featuring lyrics that resonate with him on a personal level. After some of his LS I'll read comments that wonder if maybe his tone on certain subjects was more pedantic or pretentious than intended, like he's talking down to the audience, but I always get the personal impression he's trying to instill an interest in things which move him in the hopes it'll move the audience too, give them a new perspective on something they may not have considered before out of a wish for them to enjoy and learn rather than shaming them for not knowing as much as he does. Or it's just how I see him anyway, but I really do admire how intrinsically thoughtful he is in most everything he says or does. I wish I could cite other examples to show, but for right now the above screenshot is good enough to demonstrate what I mean.

There's the playful banter and ironic jokes throughout his videos which I enjoy too, along with certain sign off's in his LS where I'd wonder if there wasn't a fair bit of sarcasm included with his wishes for the audience to "'stay hydrated and meditate" etc. but there's moments where he'll say something in a way which is so specifically motivating or kind without being disingenuous about it at all and it honestly makes me appreciate him very much. I don't know if it's because my own personal experiences have been so full of bad interactions with strangers and family that these moments stand out the most for me, like I'm giving him praise for something rare when it should be commonplace, but listening to him talk sometimes is like a breath of fresh air so different from what I've been used to that it leaves more of an impact on me than it probably might otherwise do. It's an overall positive hopeful feeling that I'm glad his many other subscribers have the opportunity to experience for themselves too, because with a platform where he has the exposure and freedom to say and do as he pleases no matter how potentially harmful, he chooses to be who he is right now instead. Give me enough time and I'll wax poetic for pages about Phil too, but seeing that pic made me fixate on Dan for the moment.


tl;dr: it's late, I don't know what I'm saying and it's all subjective anyway, but I really do appreciate daniel howell

you put it into words!
also, i'm a little bit too obsessed over the rebrand, but i think his LS:s have completely changed during the 2 years i've watched them. i remember when there started to be moments when he acted "weird" during the shows, then they increased and now it's more like 65% "weird"/nowadays his normal behaviour, 30% music&tv&films and 5% the old really sarcastic, negative dan. (this is 0% based on scientic research and 100% 6am!me avoiding editing) so for me that thoughtful dan is definitely a new guy, but i'm always analyzing humans somehow wrong (and too lazy to rewatch liveshows)... could be just casual character growth, but imo goes hand in hand with the rebrand. also has there ever been any discussion about the LS behaviour change in the grand scheme because i don't remember anything, or is it even that noticeable to others?
oh god there is literally even less point on this post than i thought and it's completely irrelevant, i'm sorry

and @ daniel if u r lurking this must sound creepy af i'm sorry

[alittledizzy]

I won't quote it because I can't even pick out one part I like above the rest, but Gnosia - that really was a lovely post and it rings so true to Dan.

Defending the video being real is defending D&P being the people I think they are, and by extension my own judge of character or whatever. Is it all Not That Deep? idk).

Kudos for distilling why people are so passionate about voldy being real (or not) down to just a few lines. I couldn't figure out how to do that myself, though I kept mentally circling around the same concept.

[flarequake]

This is a lovely post, Gnosia. It's great to read a different interpretation of how he comes across in liveshows and I'm going to remember it as it's a lot nicer than how we often read him. Something I've often wanted to get across to other people, or just share with them at the time, is how something, particularly in art of some kind, has made me feel and it's really difficult to do in writing, drawing, or anything. Getting so deeply into something to have enough to put across so other people might also get it is interesting and a lot of effort to go to. He might just get into things deeply for his own interest anyway and that passion and knowledge would then come across when he shares things.

His liveshow endings are lovely when they're so genuine, it is a rare thing when you go about life being sensitive or weird, whatever kind of misfit that gets the message they're not right or don't fit in when they open their mouth and get a typical response from someone who doesn't get it. Over years we hear it so much from people we meet and the media, it's very refreshing to hear someone on our wavelength breaking through all that with kind, genuine words that can reach so many people.

[Susanisnotafish]

I 100% agree with gnosia! Also I was wondering why/when Dan stopped saying things like that dailybooth about love? Did he stop being so open when voldy leaked or before that? Wish I was around from the beginning to make my own conclusions in real time.

[lefthandedism]

Defending the video being real is defending D&P being the people I think they are, and by extension my own judge of character or whatever. Is it all Not That Deep? idk).

Kudos for distilling why people are so passionate about voldy being real (or not) down to just a few lines. I couldn't figure out how to do that myself, though I kept mentally circling around the same concept.

I agree, fancybum perfectly sums up why people tend to be passionate about voldy.

Also, D&P's (apparent) life makes one heck of a love story--and who doesn't love a love story?

[ezzy]

i was about ten in 2009 and had a friend or two who were around thirteen and on the ole myspace, dailybooth, etc and by way of them saw the emo-bisexual-lolzor thing. i thought this was cool and acted that way until i was about fourteen. by that time it wasn't seen as cool in my school. don't know if that was the people or the times, but acceptance for kids acting that way didn't come back until 2014 for me. i think dan and phil went through this a bit, the open-closed-open thing.

[malday]

Straying from the relevant topic for a moment to just comment on that included screenshot above and how it exemplifies one of the things I love most about Dan, which is this depth of compassion and empathy he exhibits for many things and in how he chooses to express himself. When he becomes passionate about topics, music or people he's extremely motivated to learn every iota about it, to understand its significance, to then communicate that passion with others in an attempt to get them to feel a bit of what he's feeling in the moment as well, especially when it's a positive feeling. With the above post as a case in point where he feels loved and blissful and is attempting to translate that feeling by urging people to listen to a favorite song featuring lyrics that resonate with him on a personal level. After some of his LS I'll read comments that wonder if maybe his tone on certain subjects was more pedantic or pretentious than intended, like he's talking down to the audience, but I always get the personal impression he's trying to instill an interest in things which move him in the hopes it'll move the audience too, give them a new perspective on something they may not have considered before out of a wish for them to enjoy and learn rather than shaming them for not knowing as much as he does. Or it's just how I see him anyway, but I really do admire how intrinsically thoughtful he is in most everything he says or does. I wish I could cite other examples to show, but for right now the above screenshot is good enough to demonstrate what I mean.

There's the playful banter and ironic jokes throughout his videos which I enjoy too, along with certain sign off's in his LS where I'd wonder if there wasn't a fair bit of sarcasm included with his wishes for the audience to "'stay hydrated and meditate" etc. but there's moments where he'll say something in a way which is so specifically motivating or kind without being disingenuous about it at all and it honestly makes me appreciate him very much. I don't know if it's because my own personal experiences have been so full of bad interactions with strangers and family that these moments stand out the most for me, like I'm giving him praise for something rare when it should be commonplace, but listening to him talk sometimes is like a breath of fresh air so different from what I've been used to that it leaves more of an impact on me than it probably might otherwise do. It's an overall positive hopeful feeling that I'm glad his many other subscribers have the opportunity to experience for themselves too, because with a platform where he has the exposure and freedom to say and do as he pleases no matter how potentially harmful, he chooses to be who he is right now instead. Give me enough time and I'll wax poetic for pages about Phil too, but seeing that pic made me fixate on Dan for the moment.


tl;dr: it's late, I don't know what I'm saying and it's all subjective anyway, but I really do appreciate daniel howell


also I was drinking tea and just now noticed one of my small votive candles had fallen into the bottom of my cup when I set it down earlier by a shelf to steep, so maybe it's because i just essentially drank brewed "dark coconut scented yankee candle" that I went on this tangent.

That was a wonderful perspective to read.
I admit i've had a hard time warming up to Dan because of the way he carried himself in videos and it took me some time to understand that that is just a persona he puts forward and not his real self, (what even is his real self?).
But the guy has a bad case of the outside not reflecting the inside, if he's really passionate, sensitive and idealistic on the inside it comes across pedantic and pretentious on the outside(I feel bad for him). The sarcasm and cynicism he wraps himself in probably doesn't help either. But that's what makes him interesting, i guess.

I'm all for him dropping the "battle armor" around his personality, though.

Now, if Phil would do that too...

[VengefulBlue]

Defending the video being real is defending D&P being the people I think they are, and by extension my own judge of character or whatever. Is it all Not That Deep? idk).

Kudos for distilling why people are so passionate about voldy being real (or not) down to just a few lines. I couldn't figure out how to do that myself, though I kept mentally circling around the same concept.

I agree, fancybum perfectly sums up why people tend to be passionate about voldy.

Also, D&P's (apparent) life makes one heck of a love story--and who doesn't love a love story?

i appreciate this. i've never really got why people would care so much about if it's real or not. explanation below spoiler, because it's all based on personal experience.

in high school, i was closeted and my relationship status was a public interest (i was known in my school as "x of x&y", like "dan of dan&phil"). few people knew that we were together, but a lot of people speculated and asked us, constantly. we absolutely would have done something like voldy if we'd known how to, as a way to come out.

i would have loved to do some big sentimental thing, complete with 'private' details that weren't too saucy, and 'accidentally' leaked it. it would have gotten people off our backs, and it would have let us avoid making an outright statement. but if we'd set up something, changed our minds, and then it ended up public, that would be us being outed, by ourselves, on accident.

i kind of think this is what happened. when i say it seems fake, i think i mean that it was posted for viewers, not just for dan. and then they changed their minds, and the subsequent freak out when it was unprivated makes sense. but i think the initial video planning and production might have been for fans to see it, at some point.

(what ended up happening with me was actually that someone followed us to gf's house after school and saw us kissing through a window. so yeah, not much better. the kids at my school clearly had too much time on their hands and were creepy af.)

i'm not saying that's for sure what happened. but i myself would have done it, and it would fit both common theories: that the information and sentiments are true, and that the video was manufactured for viewers. am i making some huge assumptions? yes, absolutely. but it fits fairly well, i think.

and yes, d&p are one of my favorite love stories.

[autumnhearth]

Wow. The conversation evolved quickly today. I'm really excited for the video tomorrow, I was only expecting a LS anecdote about the Bahamas and am really curious to see how he turned it into a proper video. I have been on team extending his visa theory, but the announcement has me waivering a bit. We shall see.

I love how people are now talking about "some kind of gay backstory" on this thread. Reading the last page was a bit of an emotional roller coaster, but I agree we have to look at the whole picture. I love the 'Nature Boy' Dailybooth. Dan also tweeted that part of the lyrics at around the same time. I really want to turn that song into a Phan edit with b&w 2009 pics.

I 100% agree with gnosia! Also I was wondering why/when Dan stopped saying things like that dailybooth about love? Did he stop being so open when voldy leaked or before that? Wish I was around from the beginning to make my own conclusions in real time.

I think shortly after February 2010 Dan stops tweeting and boothing so much about love and distance. The 2009 and 2010 timelines are so different in tone and content. I think that is for two reasons. Enter my personal wild speculation: First, after that week in December, Christmas and Valentine's Day, Dan was probably much more secure in his relationship with Phil. Second, I imagine that when Dan came back from India and went straight up to visit Phil ("there's somewhere else I'd rather be"), they probably discussed their relationship and how private they were going to be about it. I know some people downplay the fan girls and shipping at this time, but Dan does mention getting recognized on his way to visit Phil one time and the girls squealing over the fact he was going to see him.

When I first watched it I wasn't sure how to read Phil. He was a bit rushed and awkward (nervous) but then there were a few slower very sincere moments: "It was the nicest thing anyone had ever done for me", "I was the nervous-est person ever", most of his recollecting but especially "three hour breakfasts, more of those please" that just make me want to cry. Love love love a love story. Is the song also called 'Interrupted by Fireworks'? Or are they two different songs? I feel really weird posting about this. This is why I don't actually want to meet them. I don't think I could look Phil Lester in the eyes. Too much guilt.

I ended up watching more of The Super Amazing Project today (helpful to find a playlist with them in order) and can recommend a few middle ones.

10. "Cute Pandas Playing in the Snow"- (Christmas fondness, Dan's fur hat and grey fair-isle jumper, cracker-off and Phil's that's what she said at the end)

17. Ugly Bat- (Really adorable Phil, breakfast bar news, "sexing")

18. Snowboarding Possum- (That shirt, much arm touching and fondness)

Sending love to Manchester and the world. Waggle9007 I hope your friend is healing

[Susanisnotafish]

I love how people are now talking about "some kind of gay backstory" on this thread. Reading the last page was a bit of an emotional roller coaster, but I agree we have to look at the whole picture. I love the 'Nature Boy' Dailybooth.

I 100% agree with gnosia! Also I was wondering why/when Dan stopped saying things like that dailybooth about love? Did he stop being so open when voldy leaked or before that? Wish I was around from the beginning to make my own conclusions in real time.

I think shortly after February 2010 Dan stops tweeting and boothing so much !about love and distance. The 2009 and 2010 timelines are so different in tone and content. I think that is for two reasons. Enter my personal wild speculation: First, after that week in December, Christmas and Valentine's Day, Dan was probably much more secure in his relationship with Phil. Second, I imagine that when Dan came back from India and went straight up to visit Phil ("there's somewhere else I'd rather be"), they probably discussed their relationship and how private they were going to be about it. I know some people downplay the fan girls and shipping at this time, but Dan does mention getting recognized on his way to visit Phil one time and the girls squealing over the fact he was going to see him


The Super Amazing Project
I ended up watching more of The Super Amazing Project today (helpful to find a playlist with them in order) and can recommend a few middle ones.]

Thanks for what I consider a very plausible explanation of why they took things private. I am afraid that as much as I thought I didn't care about their past and voldy being real and just wanting to know the truth I am much happier when I can blissfully believe my own head cannon.

I too watched SAP today for the second time. I found something interesting in episode 21 at 4:29. Dan says something along the lines of Phil has more than 2 brain cells. How sexy is he now? Interesting in that a couple Times in the attraction playlist Dan said he's attracted by intelligence.

[RiriPandaHeart2]

Was procrastinating and was about to rewatch Phil's latest video, when I realized it hasn't hit a million views yet. Was curious about the state of the other videos they uploaded recently, and found that the last 4 gaming channel videos also haven't reached a million views either. Usually before, in a week, the views would have already reached 1 million. What do you think is causing this difference in views? Are people just losing interest? or is it because they've been uploading a lot recently so the urge to rewatch is less because there's more content? Or is it because we've been blessed with more Deppy things outside of their videos, that we have less interest in their videos now? These are the ones that I think that could be reasons for the decline in views, though I'm not really sure.