I agree with others here. I zoned out and I wasn't too sure what happened. It was trying too hard to be intellectual / deep to the point where it felt shallow and forced to me. It felt very pseudo-intellectual to me (lol says me). I don't know, maybe he should brush up on his essay skills or take note of how to clearly structure an argument...
Interesting about the vlogbrothers comparison, from what I've watched of their videos, when they have covered a topic like this it felt more authentic / genuine. Dan's almost felt like he couldn't fully commit to the video (though as he grows more in his rebranding it may be better). Hopefully he'll find that balance between being philosophical (or whatever) and authenticity* - at least for my sake.
*I don't know if this is the right word - I can't explain exactly how I feel
Re. Uneducated: Dan's mentioned before that he likes to have knowledge regarding the subject before he expresses an opinion on something incase it's wrong and people in comments automatically point out and criticise that. So we know he does educate himself on these topics before forming or providing an opinion. How he gathers the information is a different matter that affects the outcome a fair bit. He's mentioned that he has philosophy books, but how much biased reading has he done? Has he done further reading surrounding the topic to broaden his knowledge? Probably not.
I don't blame him though. You'll find a majority of people (we're all guilty of doing it at some point) begin to form an opinion from witnessing one idea, then any further research we do into it is just consolidating the opinion, and fairly biased because of our preconcieved ideas.
I mentioned before that I think he's incorrect about humanity being stagnant right now (we've made so much progress in the past few years, I think we often forget about it because it's faded into our daily lives, but the advancements in technology are truly incredible and occuring constantly around us), but I can understand how seeing these great revelations "Earth not being flat" or even the beginnings of technology, to now where we just feel like these technological advancements are common, to the possibility of a future where we extend beyond this planet... it's understandable that you can feel that we've done all we can on this planet, we've explored everything. Whilst we have uncovered much of the planet, so much more is left to be found, and society must continue to develop before we reach the period that we're able to explore other Universe's.
Dan's thoughts are not uncommon, he's just thinking in extremes. "We have explored this planet and now we must explore other planets" mentality.
Can u tell I'm tired and rambling? soz if this is just a mess of thoughts and words, hope i conveyed my thoughts well
echinodon wrote:I agree with others here. I zoned out and I wasn't too sure what happened. It was trying too hard to be intellectual / deep to the point where it felt shallow and forced to me. It felt very pseudo-intellectual to me (lol says me). I don't know, maybe he should brush up on his essay skills or take note of how to clearly structure an argument...
Interesting about the vlogbrothers comparison, from what I've watched of their videos, when they have covered a topic like this it felt more authentic / genuine. Dan's almost felt like he couldn't fully commit to the video (though as he grows more in his rebranding it may be better). Hopefully he'll find that balance between being philosophical (or whatever) and authenticity* - at least for my sake.
*I don't know if this is the right word - I can't explain exactly how I feel
Yeah, that's how I feel. Like he was trying to do a vlogbrothers style thing which I would love from him but couldn't quite figure out how to make it genuine the way that they do. Maybe he can talk to Hank or John. I can't imagine him doing that, but it could honestly help.
Tbh my favorite content from him are DITL and baking and like some storytimes. I loved the Bahamas vid and the blinded myself vid. I love their combined stuff bc their personalities balance each other out so well. I think Dan is young and turning a new leaf and is gonna need time to figure out who he wants to be. But I'm happy to support him as he does.
I must really love Dan because I watched that whole video. Anyone else (except Phil lol) and I would have turned it off by 2 minutes.
I don't understand the concept I guess. It wasn't funny but it also wasn't thought-provoking. I'm confused about what it was supposed to be.
I think maybe a thesis would have helped? I dunno.
Also, I didn't think it was all that deep? I'm reading people saying it was too deep for his audience and maybe it was so too deep for me that it went right over my head. But he seemed to be covering a billion deep topics very generally without delving into any of them.
I didn't hate the video, but damn I didn't really enjoy it either. Agree with others who've said it feels kind of disjointed, like .. what was the point? I feel like the whole "meme" conclusion was such a reach, and struggled to see how that connected to the beginning of the video.
Also swofro and dianapml, I think you guys made really great points! And grey yes!!! Deep where?? It seemed so fake-deep to me, idk.
1) I don't agree with his argument at all - we are just objectively at such a pivotal point in history, I have no idea how he came to the conclusion that we're at an in-between. Even just looking at things from a Western perspective, given Trump and everything that has sprouted from his presidency how can he argue that things are stagnant right now?
2) I think Dan's argument is quite shallow, in that it completely glosses over how right now there are more opportunities than there have ever been for people who aren't wealthy white men (disclaimer: obvs there's still a long way to go). How can he argue that life peaked at colonialism??
I feel like he maybe just didn't think that deeply about the point he was making, but idk it just came across as a very sheltered perspective of what it means to achieve great things in life, and ignores the fact that not only were women and people of colour very much excluded from education and opportunities to make great world-altering discoveries (or else had their achievements stolen by white men), but also ignores the fucking awful realities of colonialism. I don't think he had malicious intentions when he made that argument, and it probably just came from ignorance, but personally it rubbed me the wrong way and didn't resonate with me at all.
3) The whole meme thing.. idk. I just worry he risks "memes" becoming just as cringy a part of his branding as llamas and maltesers were once upon a time. I think memes are great and hilarious etc, but only when they're not forced, and sometimes it feels like Dan's trying a bit too hard to make memes happen.
I do love Dan a lot and my criticisms come from a place of respect for him as a creator. Like others have said, I believe Dan has a lot of unfulfilled potential. This video could have been great, but it just felt rushed and a bit pointless. His arguments didn't resonate with me at all (which is fine, we can disagree), and I do think he's capable of so much more. Having said that, I fully recognise that it's not up to me to dictate what content he creates. I'd love to see him branch out a bit and start making content he really enjoys creating, and hopefully this is just a minor blip in that journey.
Also, to be a bit positive - I like the new camera setup, he looked lovely. And I appreciate the little sketches he did, it's obvious he did put in effort. He is very articulate, and I think he's genuinely a great writer, just the final product did seem rushed and incomplete
Anyway I am off to go to a family thing now (Phil or captainspacecoat? scientists can't tell), but look forward to reading more perspectives on the vid as I'm finding this all really interesting!
reaction to dan's video: (not really timestamps because I'm lazy. also its under a cut because its slightly a self indulgent wank.)
-As someone who only has a passing knowledge of and vague interest in memes, he has already lost me right off the bat. Before watching this video I will say I think memes are important because they allow us to share a sense of humor and laugh together, but they are actually quite niche and unknown to most of the world. It is entirely possible to be on the internet and never encounter them if you only go to certain websites like facebook and recipies.com or something.
While I understand most of his audience probably knows what he is talking about, he does not explain what a dank meme is and that kinda bothers me because I only barely understand the surface of the concept, and don't like the idea that this thing I think is kinda silly and not important defines the purpose of my existence...
-Do I find myself wishing for a different life? Yes...I want a house and child and more money etc. I also want the high fantasy he is talking about, with adventure and intrigue. I can't make the first happen easily, but the second is considerably more attainable. I just have to walk through a dodgy part of town at night, or sign up to build houses in africa, or do anything other than sit in my room and write fanfiction all day....
-"Our boring time" - I hate to tell you danny but your time is what you make of it. You want interesting go do something interesting instead of watching anime all day lol.
-Then I realize dan has (says he has, im going of his own words here) anxiety and anytime he does go outside to do something has a slight panic attack and regrets it for the next week. So maybe he can't. I know I can't without lots of support and therapy and meds.
-Love the EA harvesting money using sims dlc dig. Its like the shocked look on his face everytime he finds out phil bought a new expansion pack for the sims. I approve.
-OK. We could not just hop in a boat and change the world by discovering a new continent. There was maybe a handful of people that did that? The rest were peasants and slaves and farmers and people trapped in boring jobs so they could pay their taxes lol. Nothing has actually changed.
-You don't have to get a job at space X, but you totally could. You don't even need to learn math, you could be a secretary or a janitor or a social media guru and still contribute to the cause.
-What about slice of life animes? What about sitcoms like friends where nothing super exciting happens, its just kinda real life?
-2 minutes in and he finally says its about him and not about us. Surprise Surprise. It wouldn't be a dinof video if it wasn't hidden psychotherapy for danny.
-speaking of which breaking out the maslow!! That lovely psych 1 class coming into play!
-We COULD do lots of meaningful things but....We can't leave what we know behind. Because once you enter a new reality that is now your present. After it becomes mundane wont you want to leave that behind too? Isn't it an endless cycle of the grass is greener on the other side?
-four and a half minutes in he explains what memes are and gets to his point. You can tell he never got to english 103 because this would have been an automatic fail as a college essay. This is a highschool essay where you try to bring the readers in first. College dgaf.
-"The great journey of our time is not outwards, but inwards" I want this on a shirt. I also want it in the first 30 seconds of his video.
-"Meming is a valid career choice" says the man living in a fancy flat on his piles of money. if you are getting paid for it and it making your life better rather than just wasting time and trying to pretend everything doesn't such than sure, good for you. For the rest of us I would consider a day job as well.
- "stop procrastinating and go do it". Do what? Make memes for a living? Where? How? Is that an actual thing? Like the person who always wins the cracked caption contests? I'm confused. Or is this actually about dan forcing himself to put out a video about memes because that is his job and pays his bills. Is he talking to me or himself.
(Hint: I think it's himself)
the vid felt like a pseudophilosophical rant of someone who's stoned or drunk. you know, when you think you're saying something so smart and genuinely groundbreaking and you just can't stop talking but to anyone who's sober it just sounds like you're stuck in a thought loop without a purpose and you're in fact just arguing that lenin was a mushroom. if you wanna do shitposts at least commit to it and do a poppy.
also, dan is bored. idk it honestly felt like it wasn't as much intended for his audience as it was his own internal word vomit aimed at his own bored self. "i'm bored because i'm not doing anything worthwhile and the world is boring" is what this video screams. and then he tells himself it's ok to be a bored and rich ass white dude. k. at least he admitted it's a first world problem but y'know. and yet again his reason for choice of focus on "memes" eludes me. it's like oneday he woke up and decided that "memes" are gonna be his branding, without ever delivering on the actual memes. a meme lord with no memes. a real life example of the emperors new clothes. i don't even think he means memes when he says memes. maybe it's a euphemism. or maybe we're all just mushrooms.
I loved this video. when i was watching it I thought for sure it would be well-received here, so I'm a bit surprised.
This video seemed so Dan...it seemed like something he actually cares about and actually wants to make a video about. This is what his stupid 2016 meme video or his lifeless (imo) ISG videos are lacking. He has f*cking passion and I'm 100% here for that.
memes:
The meme elements seemed shoehorned in, but understandably so. In order to attract a wide-ish audience he needed something to draw viewers in, and just saying here's a video of me rambling on about what i think the meaning of life is wouldn't get many views.
timing:
I'm happy it was 6 minutes long, I feel like he'd end up with the video being too dense if he went any further (although I'm also bias because I HATE when youtubers force their videos to be 10:01 minutes long).
me being a bit off-topic re: his way of thinking
I haven't finished catching up on this thread yet because I can't find my reading glasses (yes I need reading glasses, no judging ) but re: what I've read so far...I totally understand the criticism such talking too fast, having multiple subjects with little discernible outline, etc.
This video was, like ppl said, a resemblance of his live-shows, which is both a good thing and a bad thing imo. It could be argued that this video isn't well-suited for a mainchannel video, because he has a very divergent thinking process, which according to my ex-roommate studying anthropology is quite common for people who are the verbal type of socially awkward (at least according to his "explanation" for why I jump from topic to topic and ramble...anyone have one of those psych major friends who always "diagnose" everyone? ) People with divergent thinking apparently tend to have wider vocabularies but terrible spelling as well, so there's some border-line armchair psychology for ya
My friend sometimes says I speak in "MJ-Shorthand," because I jump between a number of different topics in a way that (no matter how much I try) only makes sense to me. He had the same problem in this video. It's Daniel-Shorthand.
I once wrote basically a dissertation here about how I love the way dan tries hard to make his liveshows accessable to everyone, even when it's at the expense of seeming patronizing. This video didn't have that quality but imo I don't think it's as important here because this is a 6 minute video ppl can go back and rewatch.
Bar the meme stuff, this isn't a novel theory there's a number of published material either arguing or more commonly critical responses philosophical, anthropological, and even my area behavioral economic fields. He's kind of throwing two different theories together here, but it feels like he's actually be reading some legitimate sources rather than just redit and tumblr. I mean, he has the free time now. I bet this video was understandable to people who has some sort of foundation for the subject, but otherwise it seems easy to tune out or get lost.
his subscribers
Arguably, he risks alienating a lot of views since he has a lot of younger viewers. Yes, people of any age can be well-exposed and capable of understanding this sort of philosophical and abstract thinking, but interest and understanding of big picture/long-term ideas often sprout with age/life-experience. Without the interest in big-picture thinking this video would probably be boring and inaccessible. Add that to how this video can be boring OR inaccessible to ppl of all life-experience-ness, this video won't end up being a money-maker.
Although this might be his way of trying to expand his audience demographics.
tl;dr:
I don't think dan cares about the view count for this video, this seems to be the type of content he's been talking forever, the stuff for himself instead of generic tag/challenge/whatever videos he complains about.
He has the gaming channel to make happy/general-audience/fun videos, so if his main channel becomes this border-line pretentious ramblings I'm happy, and thinking about his reaction to the ISG controversy, I think he would be happy as well even if it does come at the expense of a lower-view count.
This seems like a topic Phil would totally get bored with, so I bet if (when) dan showed it to him Phil didn't critique it too much. I wish phil told him to cut the meme sh*t, that was dumb.
omg I just wrote a bunch of nonsense. yes, I'm procrasinating stuff, can you tell also nope I did not proof read this, so lo siento
edit: I disagree with parts of his arguments, as I bet a bunch of u do as well. I wish youtube still had video replies This would have been a good written piece. Dan would have been a good journalist, He would get some good controversy rolling. I low-key wish he had a show like the daily show, he would be perfect for that format. Except for the interview portions, he's so awkward in interviews.
edit again because I'm almost caught up with the thread: I like that he made it clear this was a very first world problem, and that all the "cool" examples of exploration-type things from the past are idealized.
Last edited by dontpanic on Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
I didn't hate the video, but damn I didn't really enjoy it either. Agree with others who've said it feels kind of disjointed, like .. what was the point? I feel like the whole "meme" conclusion was such a reach, and struggled to see how that connected to the beginning of the video.
Also swofro and dianapml, I think you guys made really great points! And grey yes!!! Deep where?? It seemed so fake-deep to me, idk.
1) I don't agree with his argument at all - we are just objectively at such a pivotal point in history, I have no idea how he came to the conclusion that we're at an in-between. Even just looking at things from a Western perspective, given Trump and everything that has sprouted from his presidency how can he argue that things are stagnant right now?
2) I think Dan's argument is quite shallow, in that it completely glosses over how right now there are more opportunities than there have ever been for people who aren't wealthy white men (disclaimer: obvs there's still a long way to go). How can he argue that life peaked at colonialism??
I feel like he maybe just didn't think that deeply about the point he was making, but idk it just came across as a very sheltered perspective of what it means to achieve great things in life, and ignores the fact that not only were women and people of colour very much excluded from education and opportunities to make great world-altering discoveries (or else had their achievements stolen by white men), but also ignores the fucking awful realities of colonialism. I don't think he had malicious intentions when he made that argument, and it probably just came from ignorance, but personally it rubbed me the wrong way and didn't resonate with me at all.
3) The whole meme thing.. idk. I just worry he risks "memes" becoming just as cringy a part of his branding as llamas and maltesers were once upon a time. I think memes are great and hilarious etc, but only when they're not forced, and sometimes it feels like Dan's trying a bit too hard to make memes happen.
I do love Dan a lot and my criticisms come from a place of respect for him as a creator. Like others have said, I believe Dan has a lot of unfulfilled potential. This video could have been great, but it just felt rushed and a bit pointless. His arguments didn't resonate with me at all (which is fine, we can disagree), and I do think he's capable of so much more. Having said that, I fully recognise that it's not up to me to dictate what content he creates. I'd love to see him branch out a bit and start making content he really enjoys creating, and hopefully this is just a minor blip in that journey.
Also, to be a bit positive - I like the new camera setup, he looked lovely. And I appreciate the little sketches he did, it's obvious he did put in effort. He is very articulate, and I think he's genuinely a great writer, just the final product did seem rushed and incomplete
Anyway I am off to go to a family thing now (Phil or captainspacecoat? scientists can't tell), but look forward to reading more perspectives on the vid as I'm finding this all really interesting!
I agree with all of this. I didn't even think much about it being a "wealthy white dude" perspective, but I see that now that you mention it. I think he was onto something when he brought up that feeling of, "all the great stuff has already been done or can't be done yet, what can I possibly contribute to this world?" - I think most young people in first-world countries can relate to that, even with varying levels of privilege (I certainly I know I feel it despite not having the same privileges as Dan) - but then he kind of lost me when he treated that mindset as valid. Like, it's an understandable feeling to have, but it's not... based on reality? Does that make any sense? It's based on us romanticizing and glorifying certain parts of history and fiction and then failing to separate that from reality (either because our reality is genuinely undesirable, or we're just bored). For me, I think the biggest part missing from Dan's video is the "debunking" (of sorts) of that mindset.
But I also agree that he has a lot of untapped potential, and it seems like he's looking to use it, which is awesome! This type of content is very different from what he's done in the past, so I'm sure it'll improve naturally. I'm definitely on board!
And now I lowkey want to write an entire essay on this video and all the topics brought up because I'm bored.
EDIT: dontpanic also brought up two great points that I just wanted to show my appreciation for: yes!!! This video definitely has his passion in it, and you can tell. I think that why I'm excited for it, despite not quite enjoying the finished product in and of itself. Also, the note about Phil being bored with the topic is funny and probably accurate - another reason why this video wasn't my cup of tea. I totally relate to Phil more on a personality/interests/approach to life level.
I really enjoyed Dan’s new video! I personally found the pacing and content just fine; it didn’t feel like an onslaught of words and the content itself was not only interesting but interspersed with edits that made me laugh. Despite this, I can definitely see why other people are confused. I have a bit to say but I’ll put it under a cut as it may get a bit rambly (hope I'm doing it right, this is my first post here! )
Although Dan does kind of talk about our current era as being a period of stagnation, this was not his main point. He was constantly referring to fictional universes and escapism throughout the video and pretty blatantly suggested that he craves the adventures present in fiction – adventures that most of the population can’t have either because they’re physically impossible or because they’re too difficult to achieve.
Everybody who is saying that Dan claimed you can’t live a meaningful life, consider this quote from the video:
You may say there’s many meaningful missions you could go on, from pursuing personal passions, politics, science, or even changing the world to be a better place from doing charity work. And yup, that’s all true, but it’s not something that we can completely escape to, leaving what we know behind.
Dan knows better than most people what kind of impact small things can do to improve a person’s life (e.g. his own videos), and I definitely don’t think that he was trying to suggest that nothing meaningful can be achieved in today’s society.
I feel like Dan’s point is basically that neither reality nor fiction are good enough to distract us from the troubles of life and that we should instead consider memes as a way to acknowledge those difficulties and existential questions without letting them destroy us.
His delivery was a bit strange, though, as he placed emphasis on lesser ideas and skimmed over his main argument. He also made a lot of generalisations and sweeping statements. I wouldn’t be surprised if he simply researched a bit on the topic and regurgitated everything he’d read rather than forming his own opinions.
Even though I enjoyed this video, I really think that he could improve so much. I also hope that ‘memes’ don’t become his new branding. I’m slightly afraid that he’s going to turn into some sort of edgy 4chan/reddit person. Oh well. Hopefully he receives our feedback and criticism well.
the vids they've released in the past two weeks have been quite boring to me but dan's was the dullest
I do appreciate that he's trying something new and hope something better might come out next month
I'm more concerned about my waning interest in the gaming channel. A new series, not the MHP shitpost, but something that viewers can get super invested in and even have a cry over is long overdue
The video was alright. I had a fun time watching it. I do feel that Dan thought he was being much deeper than he really was. I agree with the whole he came off a bit pretentious. I do like the direction that his content is going. He definitely outgrew his old stuff. I really didn't like the exams videos. I felt that was very 20 something year old trying to be 16. I like that he is trying to act his age more.
papierklemmen wrote:the vid felt like a pseudophilosophical rant of someone who's stoned or drunk. you know, when you think you're saying something so smart and genuinely groundbreaking and you just can't stop talking but to anyone who's sober it just sounds like you're stuck in a thought loop without a purpose and you're in fact just arguing that lenin was a mushroom.
Thinking about it, the videos does remind me of convos I've had like this
tacitus wrote:His delivery was a bit strange, though, as he placed emphasis on lesser ideas and skimmed over his main argument. He also made a lot of generalisations and sweeping statements. I wouldn’t be surprised if he simply researched a bit on the topic and regurgitated everything he’d read rather than forming his own opinions.
Even though I enjoyed this video, I really think that he could improve so much. I also hope that ‘memes’ don’t become his new branding. I’m slightly afraid that he’s going to turn into some sort of edgy 4chan/reddit person. Oh well. Hopefully he receives our feedback and criticism well.
I agree about the delivery and memes. While I didn't love the video and like others disagreed with parts of his argument, I did see (especially rewatching it) his passion in it. Hopefully with time he'll find his feet more in the genre or whatever.
tacitus wrote:
Everybody who is saying that Dan claimed you can’t live a meaningful life, consider this quote from the video:
You may say there’s many meaningful missions you could go on, from pursuing personal passions, politics, science, or even changing the world to be a better place from doing charity work. And yup, that’s all true, but it’s not something that we can completely escape to, leaving what we know behind.
Dan knows better than most people what kind of impact small things can do to improve a person’s life (e.g. his own videos), and I definitely don’t think that he was trying to suggest that nothing meaningful can be achieved in today’s society.
I feel like Dan’s point is basically that neither reality nor fiction are good enough to distract us from the troubles of life and that we should instead consider memes as a way to acknowledge those difficulties and existential questions without letting them destroy us.
Very, very good points that I got during the second watch through
I understood part of his argument to be that it's okay to admit you're not going to be someone who makes some grand change or contribution to the world; instead, you should make your own meaning in life. He didn't explain it well, but when he talked about 'charity' and 'political change' and stuff it seemed like a broad umbrella for being active in social movements etc.
People often feel like they don't matter because they're not changing the world like malala yousafzai, or they're not making big innovations like elon musk. One of the topics he skimmed was imo a disorganized way of saying "what you do matters as long as it matters to you." and then he shoehorned 'memes' in there by saying "even if all you do is scroll through memes it's okay"
I like that he kept a lot to psych 101 (ap psych) style like the maslow's hierarchy mention. A lot of his audience have never been exposed to that/related topics, it's better to over-explain than to leave people feeling out of the loop.
Tangent: he gets criticized a lot for explaining/defining words, and while it does sometimes come off as patronizing I don't think that's his goal. For a lot of ppl his explanations and repetitions of ideas are helpful, a common example being if english isn't your first language. If you have trouble hearing (aka me) it's sometimes nice when he overexplains words or ideas because the extra context helps if I can't figure out what word he's trying to say. That's more liveshow applicable tho, defin. not this video, he spoke fast (the subtitles are pretty janky, did anyone notice? :wtf: )
Additionally, some words/topics he mentions would seem out of reach if you haven't had the opportunity of high school education or higher. My bro and I are the first people in my family to graduate high school and I always feel like a jerk when I accidentally reference ideas or use words that my family didn't have the privilege of being exposed to. I'm not saying formal education isn't a measure of intelligence or knowledge, I'm just saying some people might benefit from what some of us might find annoying. It's better for some to roll their eyes and say "I know what existentialism is, you've said it before" than for his rants to be inaccessible for some I think I said something along this line a few months ago, but I've been developing my feelings about this
I'm so sorry for double posting, I ran out of time to edit
edit: I wonder if xEphr0m will notice if Dan mentioned him in a video.
It seems to me that Dan's getting what he wants out of this video: people talking about something he's said that approximates what he actually thinks about a topic he's interested in, rather than all about alien abduction in the Sims or who's touching whom. I think the discussion here has been more intellectually interesting than it has been for a while.
There's been an awful lot of criticism, but Dan has to expect that--he knows his making toast can be problematic. Along wit the criticism there's also been quite a bit of discussion of what he's said and how he's said it (the latter is legitimate fodder for discussion as well).
I don't really know how to "follow" what the phandom is thinking on Twitter or Tumblr, but the YouTube comments seem pretty positive and in the normal range, and he's already over 600k views, which I think is a decent amount for him to garner in 8 hours on a Saturday.
I've always found Dan an "interesting" person in the best sense: he's the kind of person I'd love to have as a roommate in university. In an intellectual setting, I tend to evaluate people on whether they say anything interesting--steer the convo in a different direction, mash two disparate topics together, bring up something from a random source--rather than on whether they sound expert, or have an especially clever style, or use big words (I am guilty of the last, myself--oops). Dan can be marvelously articulate (which isn't to say he doesn't seriously mangle some words), and when he's passionate, he can be quite thought-provoking.
So, yes, the video had its issues, so eloquently pointed out here, but Dan has got a conversation going.
tacitus wrote:I really enjoyed Dan’s new video! I personally found the pacing and content just fine; it didn’t feel like an onslaught of words and the content itself was not only interesting but interspersed with edits that made me laugh. Despite this, I can definitely see why other people are confused. I have a bit to say but I’ll put it under a cut as it may get a bit rambly (hope I'm doing it right, this is my first post here! )
Although Dan does kind of talk about our current era as being a period of stagnation, this was not his main point. He was constantly referring to fictional universes and escapism throughout the video and pretty blatantly suggested that he craves the adventures present in fiction – adventures that most of the population can’t have either because they’re physically impossible or because they’re too difficult to achieve.
Everybody who is saying that Dan claimed you can’t live a meaningful life, consider this quote from the video:
You may say there’s many meaningful missions you could go on, from pursuing personal passions, politics, science, or even changing the world to be a better place from doing charity work. And yup, that’s all true, but it’s not something that we can completely escape to, leaving what we know behind.
Dan knows better than most people what kind of impact small things can do to improve a person’s life (e.g. his own videos), and I definitely don’t think that he was trying to suggest that nothing meaningful can be achieved in today’s society.
I feel like Dan’s point is basically that neither reality nor fiction are good enough to distract us from the troubles of life and that we should instead consider memes as a way to acknowledge those difficulties and existential questions without letting them destroy us.
His delivery was a bit strange, though, as he placed emphasis on lesser ideas and skimmed over his main argument. He also made a lot of generalisations and sweeping statements. I wouldn’t be surprised if he simply researched a bit on the topic and regurgitated everything he’d read rather than forming his own opinions.
Even though I enjoyed this video, I really think that he could improve so much. I also hope that ‘memes’ don’t become his new branding. I’m slightly afraid that he’s going to turn into some sort of edgy 4chan/reddit person. Oh well. Hopefully he receives our feedback and criticism well.
Yes to this and I also agree with most of the critiques and praise for the video pointed out thus far. For me, I don’t think he came across as pretentiously didactic or that he even intended to be taken as a superior intellectual with a line to sell the audience about deep concepts as they related to memes. He came across more with passionate excitement about introducing a topic in a markedly different way than he has before and while it wasn’t perfect I think it was a good jumping off point of an introduction towards what he means to do with his channel going ahead and I'm here for it.
A small problem with this video for me, although I did enjoy it and appreciated the direction of it and his decision to make it, was that he covered so many points at once, cramming everything into a video until the relevant topic of memes he tried to cover became overshadowed by a hodgepodge of other topics to consider which were all just as valid and interesting, but might have been better consolidated into their own separate videos. (E.g. living in alternate contrived realities as a way of escaping yourself and your own reality as a means to cope-expanding on the video he already made called Fictional Friends the way this one seemed to expand on the previous one he'd already made about the shelf life of memes; coming to terms with the perceived futility of independent choice or in becoming involved with the movements and passions which most speak to us in the face of exclusionary systems in society that seem to hold us back from achievement or progress in our personal lives or the world at large; achieving self-actualization and what that means and how it can be daunting in the face of so many factors that can sometimes make that a vague and elusive goal- there was so much going on in that video all condensed together in a way that wasn’t always immediately relevant to the main topic.
Still, I understand where his thought process might have diverted off to try to stitch everything together into one cohesive and entertaining argument with themes meant to bounce off of each other for effect, but it got away from him a bit. I think when he touched on the topic of escapism through popular media he missed an opportunity to touch more in depth on how memes or their construction have always had a similar purpose throughout history, bringing to light the way medieval abbots would regularly scrawl seemingly meaningless phrases, epithets and comics in the margins of illuminated manuscripts which had nothing to do with the work at hand as a way of discussing popular events or to casually touch on their own personal mind frame at the moment, or that ancient skeleton mosaic found in Turkey with its message of enjoying life that’s resonated across the centuries to be relevant to us today as the YOLO skeleton. It’s a way of illustrating how people have these communal interests and expressions of humor throughout time so that even in what he looks at as our age of "stagnant limbo" between eras of progress- which, honestly, seemed too simple and reductive an observation to make about history’s advancement or our own engagement with it in the present but I understand where he's coming from in how grand overeaching gestures that affect true change seem like something relegated to those with the skills and knowledge to be considered pioneers in technological discoveries and advancements rather than those of us who can only contribute in small ways even though it all does matter in the end- things like escapist fantasies and meme-like cultures has been a constant presence within humanity’s development no matter the age.
which made me wonder if any cultures or communities living through periods marked as turning points of progress and revolution ever understood themselves as being part of something great and monumental in their lives that would have lasting impact into the future or if it was just like now where people naturally rise to the challenge of obstacles, problems and oppressive regimes and try to affect change in small ways and large ones without being cognizant of how that effort will shape their present era in the history books so that it just seems like normal stimulus and reaction at the time but people in the future remember it as a period of profound development- alternatively, also in the way that for some people many upheavals seemed like one big clusterfuck of a disaster they might have felt powerless to affect depending on their status or mindset and so resorted to different pastimes or artistic pursuits to indulge themselves as a means of catharsis thereby unknowingly contributing to important changes in social consciousness, art and communication the way memes have done today. There’s something uplifting about that idea and he touched on that very briefly but not enough I think to really bring the point home in the way he might have intended it to, though I’m not anyone to say I know what his intent is.
Some things are too expansive to cover in one video, especially one that introduces concepts and ideas that deserve more than a quick fly-by comment, so I allow for things to get lost in translation.
Personally, I saw this as him presenting a topic more thoughtfully than just a throwaway bit with some observations that I didn’t necessarily agree with and some that were insightful and funny and others that felt too sporadically paced and crammed together. It was still Dan in essence, it had all his signature trademarks of the visual gags, the ironic turns of humor to keep it from being preachy or serious, the incisive and eloquent commentary, the neatly paced editing and transitions to tie it all together- it was just executed here in a way that was a bit overwhelming and vague for me in how it meandered so quickly from one thing to the next, like having a three a.m conversation with a friend where you’re not really worrying about where the conversation is going because you’re both on the same page and just go with the flow to take every drifting subject in stride but for a video where my engagement is more one-sided it felt different.
I still enjoyed the video and appreciated it for what it was and what it meant to convey, but those were my small hangup’s about it after watching, which are pretty negligible in hindsight. That said, I'm confident he'll probably expand more on this in the future, perfecting his approach and presentation with different themes in a manner that will better establish exactly what he'd like to do with his channel and all the new ways he means to express himself on there. It's something I'm looking forward to honestly.
hope that wasn't too rambly or preachy in itself
edit:
LeftHandedism wrote:It seems to me that Dan's getting what he wants out of this video: people talking about something he's said that approximates what he actually thinks about a topic he's interested in, rather than all about alien abduction in the Sims or who's touching whom. I think the discussion here has been more intellectually interesting than it has been for a while.
There's been an awful lot of criticism, but Dan has to expect that--he knows his making toast can be problematic. Along wit the criticism there's also been quite a bit of discussion of what he's said and how he's said it (the latter is legitimate fodder for discussion as well).
I don't really know how to "follow" what the phandom is thinking on Twitter or Tumblr, but the YouTube comments seem pretty positive and in the normal range, and he's already over 600k views, which I think is a decent amount for him to garner in 8 hours on a Saturday.
I've always found Dan an "interesting" person in the best sense: he's the kind of person I'd love to have as a roommate in university. In an intellectual setting, I tend to evaluate people on whether they say anything interesting--steer the convo in a different direction, mash two disparate topics together, bring up something from a random source--rather than on whether they sound expert, or have an especially clever style, or use big words (I am guilty of the last, myself--oops). Dan can be marvelously articulate (which isn't to say he doesn't seriously mangle some words), and when he's passionate, he can be quite thought-provoking.
So, yes, the video had its issues, so eloquently pointed out here, but Dan has got a conversation going.
Yes to this also, I love that his video has sparked this much discussion and especially to this extent where it's not widely negative or dismissive but full of people adding their own observations that expand on Dan's points and help to highlight them while adding insightful critiques at the same time.
To be honest, what annoys me the most is that he sounds like he is reading a script or reciting something he did his best to remember. It feels so unnatural, but I can't put my finger on why exactly that is.
Also, I have to say, I didn't smile once while watching that video, even though I didn't particularly dislike it either. Idek.
Perhaps it is the ten years I have on Dan and his gen, but I don't place or see an inherent value in memes, I get the 'sarcastic simple one-liner funny footnote on life' aspect, but as a method of "discovering the world" and/or "our place in it" (as D says in the vid), that I don't agree with. Personally, anything you want could be that instrument for discovery, innovation, self-reflection. Music, writing, building lego forts, disassembling modems. Dan choose memes as a unifying lynchpin for a generation, but he fails to see that each generation has its' own, and there are usually many. (also, geographical, cultural borders, sometimes a great thing there isn't one here). Also, as I am of the gen just before Dan, this seeking a "mission or calling" because we are stuck in a "funny point in time" 1) omg, I've become my parents when I say 'nope, feeling like that doesn't make you or your gen unique'. 2) Dan, your timeline between #flatearthNOT and aliens is too broad and fcuks up your argument from the start, which annoys me greatly, I know it's meant to be taken as funny jokey, but imo you lose credibility points for your opinion, when you then target your timeline to your generation, you've then ignored everything that has happened between 240bc (thanks Eratosthenes) to 2000.
I'd have enjoyed seeing more, I found his pov interesting, but too narrow, as if his gen is all about the memes, which I know it's not. Maybe this will be a series with other gen identifying stuff. EDIT: or go far more indepth about why specifically the meme is used by your gen./EDIT. Tbh, I think the increasing rate of innovation, engineering, escalating simultaneous advancements in multiple fields makes it hard to pin down certain significant moments as generation defining moments. In ye old days, gen moments took place at a slower pace, people were satisfied for a longer period, how many of us are still awed at the successful landing on an asteroid? It's only been months.
I hope discussion is what Dan wants from this new(ish) video, but how the hell is anyone going to get anything to reach him? Tweet it line by line? Discussion is great, bring it Dan, but youtube is a hard place to do it.
Perhaps it is the ten years I have on Dan and his gen, but I don't place or see an inherent value in memes, I get the 'sarcastic simple one-liner funny footnote on life' aspect, but as a method of "discovering the world" and/or "our place in it" (as D says in the vid), that I don't agree with. Personally, anything you want could be that instrument for discovery, innovation, self-reflection. Music, writing, building lego forts, disassembling modems. Dan choose memes as a unifying lynchpin for a generation, but he fails to see that each generation has its' own, and there are usually many. (also, geographical, cultural borders, sometimes a great thing there isn't one here). Also, as I am of the gen just before Dan, this seeking a "mission or calling" because we are stuck in a "funny point in time" 1) omg, I've become my parents when I say 'nope, feeling like that doesn't make you or your gen unique'. 2) Dan, your timeline between #flatearthNOT and aliens is too broad and fcuks up your argument from the start, which annoys me greatly, I know it's meant to be taken as funny jokey, but imo you lose credibility points for your opinion, when you then target your timeline to your generation, you've then ignored everything that has happened between 240bc (thanks Eratosthenes) to 2000.
I'd have enjoyed seeing more, I found his pov interesting, but too narrow, as if his gen is all about the memes, which I know it's not. Maybe this will be a series with other gen identifying stuff. EDIT: or go far more indepth about why specifically the meme is used by your gen./EDIT. Tbh, I think the increasing rate of innovation, engineering, escalating simultaneous advancements in multiple fields makes it hard to pin down certain significant moments as generation defining moments. In ye old days, gen moments took place at a slower pace, people were satisfied for a longer period, how many of us are still awed at the successful landing on an asteroid? It's only been months.
I hope discussion is what Dan wants from this new(ish) video, but how the hell is anyone going to get anything to reach him? Tweet it line by line? Discussion is great, bring it Dan, but youtube is a hard place to do it.
I understand what you mean and I think it stems more from his standpoint of observing the interactions of his generation on the internet and how prevalent memes appear to be in their forms of communication and self-expression, especially when many times he’s become the center point of them, so that’s what he’s chosen to focus on for the purpose of his argument. So he’s not discrediting other forms of individualism and creativity as valid contributions throughout history or within a generation it’s just, as someone with a career which depends on its presence online and its engagement with the most relevant topics at hand on social media, memes appear to be the talking point for a generation that tends to favor and find refuge in that kind of humor. Like you pointed out it’d be great for him to expand on all the reasons why memes have taken on such importance and all the ways they continue to evolve to adapt to changes in consciousness, observations about personal health or to address nihilistic/existential views, acting overall as grand unifiers of thought across a community of people looking to relate and connect with one another in environments that might be otherwise isolating to their experiences. I know he mentioned that idea briefly but it was another concept swallowed up by the rest of the video between generalizations and other comments that I didn’t get to enjoy exactly in what context he meant to express it by.
And I’d like to think just the idea that he’s gotten the video to percolate in people’s head, enough to spark discussion even to the point of disagreeing, is good enough for a platform that doesn’t always invite concise exchanges of opinions or ideas. It might not be a conversation he might see the full extent of or even engage with, but it’s still something much better than idle indifference.
idk seems like he definitely has our attention and he’s got us talking, how it'll shape or affect his decisions for videos in the future, or how well recieved his decisions continue to be to even invite another video like this one, is another story I suppose, but I hope he continues expanding on what he's done here while always making it his own.
I sat through that entire video waiting for Dan to make a point but really he just talked around in circles about why being a memelord for life is a good thing. I used to tutor kids back in gradschool and it really just reminded me of those kids that would hand me in and essay with no clue how to structure their writing and almost no references.
Honestly, at the beginning I thought it was going to be a nihilistic monologue. I thought it was going to be a well-structured comment on peoples need for and the benefits of escapism. It seemed to start off aiming for this and then just fell flat.
It kinda reminded me of a comment on his FB from last week. One person pointed out that he was treating nihilism and existentialism as separate topics when they're actually part of the same thing. Dan brushed it off with some comment about nihilism being negative and it confirmed my suspicion that even though he pretends to be all 'philosophical', he actually could do with really READING some philosophy.
If he had opened up a book on escapism or even existential Angst, he could have made this video into something really educational and interesting. But he didn't. Thus we're left with this completely forgettable content.
I understand he's trying something new, and I commend him for that. It was a good first try. I just hope he puts the effort in to improve in future.
DO NOT READ THE REPLIES unless you are fine with seeing a close-up photo of said insect.It spooked me
thephandommenace wrote:Was it maybe this way because Phil wasn't around to critique it like he usually does?
Yeah, I was having the same thought yesterday. Didn't they once say they watch each other's videos before they post? Either Phil didn't this time, or there wasn't enough time to refilm parts/cut differently since they had no more gaming videos prepared and Dan was eager to post something.
dan dan dan. what in the hell was that? shitpost or not that was a mess. and not in a good way. like ok fine you have ideas and a lot of those ideas have merit and i would really really love to hear more about them, but that was really a swing and a miss. this would have been a whole lot better if you'd just made it about your thoughts and acknowledged that they're thoughts, not some kind of proclamation from on high. yes life was a lot more exciting for rich white dudes (or poorer white dudes who could get rich white dudes to bankroll them) and they could go off and "discover" places already populated by natives. not so good for the natives. or the poor people. or the wives. but, y'know, there are some cool things you can do here in 2017. plus there's airconditioning.
but having said that it's a good effort at rebranding. i'll give you a C+. i liked the outro (probs because i have never watched emma blackery's early shit). please more like that but with better content editing.
ps, just in case you didn't already know, millennials didn't actually invent memes either. i mean they didn't have a name until we repurposed richard dawkins's word, but they've been around for centuries (medieval knights vs snails in the margins of books for example)
tldr: video could have been better, but good bones. try harder next time.
dontpanic wrote:
This seems like a topic Phil would totally get bored with, so I bet if (when) dan showed it to him Phil didn't critique it too much. I wish phil told him to cut the meme sh*t, that was dumb.
Was Phil still away whilst Dan was creating this? Is he still away (I mean, he sent that picture of the centipede and referended giving it the keys to the apartment so I'm guessing he's home but...?). Either way, I'm not certain Phil was there to provide any creative support.
I think the topic of memes was used as a way to relate broadly to millenials, and the general generation of his target audience. I know at school literally everyone around me references memes, i can't tell you the number of times I've seen pepes drawn at school on tables, doge style posters in the drama block, a "just do it" shia labeouf sign in a teachers office, and the amount of times I've heard "It's all ogre now" I could probs recite that Shrek video line by line now.
Also Dan did manage to incite discussion, and although there is no way of talking to him directly, I don't doubt for one second that he lurks on all social media. So whether he's just observing others conversations and witnessing his topics be discussed, or picking up a username so he can discuss them with us, he's still able to receive a more intellectual response in comparison to what he would gain from a gaming video (although, he's said he enjoys that it makes people happy and that he can whack out the content, I don't doubt for a second that he prefers reading deeper responses than "HEARTE EYS HOWELRL!!!!").
Do we know if Phil is home now? I'm only wondering because the centipede was trapped under a glass on a wooden floor but Phil's room has white tiles like the gaming room
(lol says me). I don't know, maybe he should brush up on his essay skills or take note of how to clearly structure an argument...
also nope I did not proof read this, so lo siento
This would have been a good written piece. Dan would have been a good journalist, He would get some good controversy rolling. I low-key wish he had a show like the daily show, he would be perfect for that format. Except for the interview portions, he's so awkward in interviews.
)
